New campaign to use both 'Siam' and 'Thailand'

[A. BOOZER]

So which do you like? Siam or Thailand?

Personally, and somewhat romantically would choose Siam, however on a more practical note, would stay with Thailand.

[jimbfburnett]

She pointed out that many countries have more than one national name, such as ....... the Great Britain, the United Kingdom and England

England = England

Great Britain = England, Wales, Scotland (mainland)

United Kingdom = England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland (full name - United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)

Just thought I'd display the facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

United States, U.S.A. America

[Jinnah]

My opinion? Stick to Thailand. Siam reminds me of Yul Brynner (the lead actor in the King of Siam) and cats, nether of which float my boat.....

[Totster]

My opinion? Stick to Thailand. Siam reminds me of Yul Brynner (the lead actor in the King of Siam) and cats, nether of which float my boat..... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reminds me of twins...stuck together...

totster

[timi2546]

If I read things correctly they want to call it "Siam Thailand" or "Thailand Siam" (or a variation on that theme), the main question is, WHY bother.

To be honest, I don't give a d@mn, my wife will always be Thai and my cat Siamese 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

siamland

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...yeah..who knows Siamland ??!

i don't.

[Totster]

If I read things correctly they want to call it "Siam Thailand" or "Thailand Siam" (or a variation on that theme), the main question is, WHY bother.

To be honest, I don't give a d@mn, my wife will always be Thai and my cat Siamese 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

siamland

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...yeah..who knows Siamland ??!

i don't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Siamland - sounds like a supermarket...

totster

[smokie]

The way I read it, is that they want to use the name Siam (again) next to Thailand, like may other countries have 2 or even more names...

So, the poll is a little incorrect.

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I come from the Netherlands or Holland, and I'm a DUTCH

[Johpa]

This imposition of a cultural identity on people is the root of the problems in the south. Essentially the government implements policies that say to people if you want to be Thai you must speak Central Thai, be educated, Buddhist, middle-class consumer, have light skin, etc. These are continually reinforced through the media and education system. The Muslim people in the south simply don't fit this identity and don't want to. They resent having this continually forced upon them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is all semantics. The right wing nationalists changed the name to Thailand in the hopes of incorporating all the Tai people, including all of Laos, under their dominion. Siam refers specifically to the Central Plains surrounding Bangkok while Bangkok's population itself is some 60% Teo Chieu Chinese.

I don't know about the Isaan folks and the folks down south, but up north the traditional rural Khon Muang do not refer to themselves as Thai but reserve that term for people from the Central Plains who speak Central (Bangkok) Thai.

[kogrutter]

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's extraordinary that retro-history is so widely accepted. I grow weary of the oft bandied "fact" that the Thais were never colonized by any foreign power. What were the Japanese doing in the LOS during most of their empire building in WWII. Acquiesence and tolerance of the Japanese behavior by the Thais was ipso facto colonization. If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably was a duck. A brilliant ploy that saved a lot of Thai lives but nevertheless it was colonization.

[Totster]

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's extraordinary that retro-history is so widely accepted. I grow weary of the oft bandied "fact" that the Thais were never colonized by any foreign power. What were the Japanese doing in the LOS during most of their empire building in WWII. Acquiesence and tolerance of the Japanese behavior by the Thais was ipso facto colonization. If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably was a duck. A brilliant ploy that saved a lot of Thai lives but nevertheless it was colonization.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah but was it colonisation or invasion...?

totstr

[gburns57au]

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

It's extraordinary that retro-history is so widely accepted. I grow weary of the oft bandied "fact" that the Thais were never colonized by any foreign power. What were the Japanese doing in the LOS during most of their empire building in WWII. Acquiesence and tolerance of the Japanese behavior by the Thais was ipso facto colonization. If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably was a duck. A brilliant ploy that saved a lot of Thai lives but nevertheless it was colonization.

This topic was discussed in the HHK forum...suggest you go there and read it....we hashed all this out there.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28861

Edited May 14, 2005 by gburns57au

[sonnyJ]

Hot media story right now:

M.L. Panadda is also the head of Prince Damrong Rajanuparp Museum and Library, where Mrs. Uraiwan and the senior officials visited yesterday.

She pointed out that many countries have more than one national name, such as the Netherlands and Holland; the United States and America; the Great Britain, the United Kingdom and England; Switzerland and Helvetia; Germany and Deutschland; and Japan and Nippon.

--TNA 2005-05-14

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Burma and Myanmar, maybe she just forgot??

[Erwin1011]

Siamland - sounds like a supermarket...

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not far from reality isn't it?

[Anon999]

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like **** it does. Find me a credible source for "Thai" meaning "free", without refering to that bizarre factoid. Sometimes I think they just invent bits of historical translation so they can have a laugh at foreigners.

"Thai" is the same word as the linguistic language group, "Tai". It's spelt with a H for the same reason as "Thanon" and every other Thai word beginning with a "proper" T sound. It's correctly pronounced "Tailand". It's a spelling mistake. Another good reason to change it back to Siam...

[/end rant]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife and many of her friends always told me Thailand meant 'Land of the Free'. But there again I suppose Thai's wouldn't know that and farang always know better! Also it was changed from 'Siam' which meant 'gold' because it was more appropriate.

[NamKAheng]

While they are at it why not bring back the old Siam flag to, the red flag with the white elephant. The old flag look very good.

[sonnyJ]

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like **** it does. Find me a credible source for "Thai" meaning "free", without refering to that bizarre factoid. Sometimes I think they just invent bits of historical translation so they can have a laugh at foreigners.

"Thai" is the same word as the linguistic language group, "Tai". It's spelt with a H for the same reason as "Thanon" and every other Thai word beginning with a "proper" T sound. It's correctly pronounced "Tailand". It's a spelling mistake. Another good reason to change it back to Siam...

While we're at it, Charoen Krung doesn't mean New Road.

[/end rant]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the New Model Thai English dictionary compiled by So Sethaputra.....

ไทย Free, Freedom loving, pertaining to Thailand or the Thai, the Thai language เป็นไทยแก่ตัว to be free, independant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On my understanding, thai people คนไทย, khonthai.

Freedom, n., ไท, tai, or อิสรภาพ, itsarapaap also independence, n.

Independence of a country, n. เอกราช, eekgaraat.

Free or liberal, adj. เป็นอิสระ, bpenitsara.

Spelling from eng-thai-eng dic. by Paiboon Publishing.

Spelling is different, so the word is different. It seems to be a word play with land of free and land of thai. Same pronounciation, different spelling.

Linguistics in the western world defines a basic language family, Tai or Tai-Kadai or Kam-Tai. Largest spoken languages of this family are Thai, Lao, Zhuang, Shan, Lanna, Red-Tai, Black-Tai, etc. There are also minority groups living in SE-Asia called Tai, Black Tai, etc. They are not Thai people in etnical sense, even they would live in Thailand.

By the way, Finland is also known as Suomi, at least by the finnish people, in our language. Should we change that to be international? It could be confused with a minority group of northern Finland though, the Saami.

This is all very interesting but I think Thai government should use their time on some more important things like education for the people.

Anyway I woted for Siyam. It sounds cool, but it could result with a confusion with siamese cats....

[Ketje]

She pointed out that many countries have more than one national name, such as the Netherlands and Holland; the United States and America; the Great Britain, the United Kingdom and England; Switzerland and Helvetia; Germany and Deutschland; and Japan and Nippon.

Germany and Deutschland ????

As far as I know Germany is the english denomination of Deutschland, so why not Allemagne ( in French ), Allemania in Italian , ....

If we follow her obsolete reasoning, any country in the world has as much national name as there are existing languages on hearth.

Espana, Spain, prathet Sapain, Espagne, Spanje, .....

Those useless arguments disserve her worth enterprise.

By the way, in any language of the world Siam is said ... Siam

[hilly]

Siam for sure. It has a ring to it and "The King and I" was the movie that got this place going. If they used this they would get the tourists here IMHO.

[The_Other_Mac]

She pointed out that many countries have more than one national name, such as the Netherlands and Holland; the United States and America; the Great Britain, the United Kingdom and England; Switzerland and Helvetia; Germany and Deutschland; and Japan and Nippon.

Germany and Deutschland ????

As far as I know Germany is the english denomination of Deutschland, so why not Allemagne ( in French ), Allemania in Italian , ....

If we follow her obsolete reasoning, any country in the world has as much national name as there are existing languages on hearth.

Espana, Spain, prathet Sapain, Espagne, Spanje, .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To tackle them all at once:

Holland or the Netherlands - different things, Holland is a subset of the Netherlands.

America or the United States - different things, America is a continent, two continents in fact.

Britain or the United Kingdom - different things, Britain is a subset of the United Kingdom.

Switzerland or Helvetia - different languages, English and Latin.

Germany or Deutschland - different languages, English and German.

Sweden or Sverige - different languages, English and Swedish.

Japan or Nippon - different languages, English and Japanese.

Now chew on this. The speech wasn't given in English...

[Foggy Bottom]

Too many quotes from previous posters I'd like to use, therefore I'll just drop the relevant references into the following -

The primary reason given for the post-WW2 name change to Thailand was that "Siam" was a name imposed by foreigners. The Siamese capital of KrungThep, as a successor to Ayutthaya, reinforced this in the eyes of foreigners as the kingdom of Ayutthaya no longer technically existed. Following the imposed rule of WW2 Japan, the kingdom needed a new purpose of identity, and a unifying rally-call, thus was the name change justified by the government.

When Ayutthaya, the city, capital, and kingdom existed, the central plains kingdom was called Ayutthaya by its citzens, and not Siam - the name used by foreigners. At the same period, other portions of modern Thailand were seperate and independant kingdoms - LanNa (suffering heavily from Burmese occupation), LanChang, SipSongPanNa (formerly part of LanNa) and the southern Sultanates to name a few.

Prior to the Dtai arriving through the northern valleys, the Souvannaphoum region was a mixture of Mon, Malay, Lawa and other ethnicities each ruling independently of the other (this was also pre-Khmer dominance). Note the spelling "Dtai" - it is the correct Anglo-phonetic spelling for the "Southerners" who came out of South West China during the late 1st Millennium AD. They were the forerunners to the more common spelling of Tai, who were an admixture of northern Thai ethnic groups - Lawa, Wa Daeng, Mrabri, Lao, Lolo, Akha/Hani, Shan, Chinese etc but with the distinct languages and cultures we now refer to as the Thai and Laos Hill Tribes.

The first use of the name Syam (See-am) was by the Han Chinese, in the early centuries AD, referring to a dark skinned people in west Yunnan who lived "beyond the mountain pass" = Syam in Chinese and it is generally believed they are what are now referred to as the Shan, and were the enemies of early NanChao and later Nanchao (mid-word capitalisation denotes word separation prior to transliteration). Angkor records talk of units of Syam-Kok in their armies (Chiang Rai Dtai?)

Interestingly, Megrai was Lawa-Dtai as the result of marriage between a Lawa King and a Shan princess from Kentung. The first king of Ayutthaya was also Dtai.

The indegenes of the period (within modern Thailand's boundaries) were not fierce enough to drive out the Khmer without ingress of politically and militarily more capable influences, and as during the Mon Dvaravati period, it took outsiders to command and co-ordinate the locals into an effective population capable of comminities larger than village muangs. This may explain why Sukhothai lasted such a short period - the early kings were Mon/Khmer-Siamese without Dtai blood. Additionally it helps to explain the rapid collapse of early Tai-Siamese kingdoms in the north - Nan, Phayao, Mae Hong Son, Tak etc. They were not aggressive enough to resist the incomers and fell to Mengrai's LanNa very quickly.

Anyways .... the central plains politicoes have generally disliked the Siam/Syam name as it reminded them that they were the indigenous underdogs to invading Sino-Dtais for the golden era of the lands of the current kingdom ....

- When LanNa controlled a crescent from Assam (NE India) through the Shan States to Northern Thailand and down to the Martaban coast, and from the north through Laos to the Vietnamese Black & Red River valleys.

- When Ayutthaya (with its Dtai royal line) controlled the central plains, the Malay peninsula, Issaan and much of Kampuchia (new name after fall of Angkor but pre-Kampuchea name).

Thus it is that in Thailand, we've had governments of the last 60 years ordering the destruction of all pre-Rama V manuscripts and chronicles, a Thai Rak Thai government ordering the rewriting of school history books to play down Burmese aggression towards Ayutthaya and her successors, Nationalism programmes to "bond and unify" the people, and a constant sniping at the integrity of farangs and their suitability as residents of the kingdom (we like accurate history texts and research from other countries records as well). There are many parallels in history, and many people compare to Germany in the late twenties and early thirties of the last century, as well as to other more recent examples such as Saddam's Iraq or Communist Vietnam and North Korea.

It is best to regard this thread's topic as a growing pain of a "teenage" nation - one that they will grow out of, before recognising that the truth will always out, and that truthful history attracts more tourism than a fabricated one. In the end, it will be the tourism dollar that decides the course of action in the modification or preservation of this kingdom's recordings of the past.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

Another example of this kind of transliteration is the Prime Ministers family name. It is spelled Shinawatra or something like that but the final 'ra' is not pronounced. Reading his name aloud you would say 'shinawat'...more or less. If I'm wrong on this, someone out there please let me know as I'm always interested.

You are correct.

All to do with silent final consonants, or ones pronounced differently when at the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry this is way off-topic but I want to ask because it will never be on-topic. You sig:

เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วให้หลิ่วตาตาม

When I try to translate I come up with non-sense like:

Enter the town squinting causes you to squint afterwards

What does it actually mean?

[jaibelle]

OMG! What's wrong with my country? Honestly, I grew up as a Thai, not Siamese. I would feel really weird if they turn to be Siamese again. In my memory, Siamese are my ancesters, old fashion, tradition kind of. Let it be the way it is. This name changing thing reminds me of Burma, that changed to Myanmar, and I don't like it.

[jaibelle]

Another example of this kind of transliteration is the Prime Ministers family name. It is spelled Shinawatra or something like that but the final 'ra' is not pronounced. Reading his name aloud you would say 'shinawat'...more or less. If I'm wrong on this, someone out there please let me know as I'm always interested.

You are correct.

All to do with silent final consonants, or ones pronounced differently when at the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry this is way off-topic but I want to ask because it will never be on-topic. You sig:

?????????????????????????????

When I try to translate I come up with non-sense like:

Enter the town squinting causes you to squint afterwards

What does it actually mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, It means " you should do what people in that area (or town) do" or another word is " try to blend in with that culture where you live in" You know what I mean? I know, some Thai proverb is weird. I didn't get either when I was little. I understood from the context when people say it.

About the prime minister last name, you are right. His pronounced "Shinawat" but the way they spell it comes from they way it appears as in Sansakrit language. Another example, the King's name pronounce as "Poom-mi-pon" but they spell it as "Bhumipol" or "Bhumibol". I have the same problem with my lastname too Once I had my passport done for the first time, the officer wouldn't let me spell the way I used to do (Sansakrit way). I needed to submit supportive documents for this. Usually, Thai people would spell their name in English as the way it pronouced in Thai. Only more educated people would spell as it appeared in Sansakrit. Also, Thai people don't think of (or don't know) their name came from Sansakrit. More trouble actually..55555

[snoophound]

Siam definitely conjours up a more romantic,exotic view of the place to me anyway.

As in Kingdom of Siam VS Kingdom of Thailand.

Thailland means the "Land of Thai people".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it actually means Free land or land of the free due to it never having been colonised by a foreign power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like **** it does. Find me a credible source for "Thai" meaning "free", without refering to that bizarre factoid. Sometimes I think they just invent bits of historical translation so they can have a laugh at foreigners.

"Thai" is the same word as the linguistic language group, "Tai". It's spelt with a H for the same reason as "Thanon" and every other Thai word beginning with a "proper" T sound. It's correctly pronounced "Tailand". It's a spelling mistake. Another good reason to change it back to Siam...

While we're at it, Charoen Krung doesn't mean New Road.

[/end rant]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the New Model Thai English dictionary compiled by So Sethaputra.....

ไทย Free, Freedom loving, pertaining to Thailand or the Thai, the Thai language เป็นไทยแก่ตัว to be free, independant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On my understanding, thai people คนไทย, khonthai.

Freedom, n., ไท, tai, or อิสรภาพ, itsarapaap also independence, n.

Independence of a country, n. เอกราช, eekgaraat.

Free or liberal, adj. เป็นอิสระ, bpenitsara.

Spelling from eng-thai-eng dic. by Paiboon Publishing.

Spelling is different, so the word is different. It seems to be a word play with land of free and land of thai. Same pronounciation, different spelling.

Linguistics in the western world defines a basic language family, Tai or Tai-Kadai or Kam-Tai. Largest spoken languages of this family are Thai, Lao, Zhuang, Shan, Lanna, Red-Tai, Black-Tai, etc. There are also minority groups living in SE-Asia called Tai, Black Tai, etc. They are not Thai people in etnical sense, even they would live in Thailand.

By the way, Finland is also known as Suomi, at least by the finnish people, in our language. Should we change that to be international? It could be confused with a minority group of northern Finland though, the Saami.

This is all very interesting but I think Thai government should use their time on some more important things like education for the people.

Anyway I woted for Siyam. It sounds cool, but it could result with a confusion with siamese cats....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sonnyJ]

Too many quotes from previous posters I'd like to use, therefore I'll just drop the relevant references into the following -

The primary reason given for the post-WW2 name change to Thailand was that "Siam" was a name imposed by foreigners.  The Siamese capital of KrungThep, as a successor to Ayutthaya, reinforced this in the eyes of foreigners as the kingdom of Ayutthaya no longer technically existed.  Following the imposed rule of WW2 Japan, the kingdom needed a new purpose of identity, and a unifying rally-call, thus was the name change justified by the government.

When Ayutthaya, the city, capital, and kingdom existed, the central plains kingdom was called Ayutthaya by its citzens, and not Siam - the name used by foreigners.  At the same period, other portions of modern Thailand were seperate and independant kingdoms - LanNa (suffering heavily from Burmese occupation), LanChang, SipSongPanNa (formerly part of LanNa) and the southern Sultanates to name a few.

Prior to the Dtai arriving through the northern valleys, the Souvannaphoum region was a mixture of Mon, Malay, Lawa and other ethnicities each ruling independently of the other (this was also pre-Khmer dominance).  Note the spelling "Dtai" - it is the correct Anglo-phonetic spelling for the "Southerners" who came out of South West China during the late 1st Millennium AD.  They were the forerunners to the more common spelling of Tai, who were an admixture of northern Thai ethnic groups - Lawa, Wa Daeng, Mrabri, Lao, Lolo, Akha/Hani, Shan, Chinese etc but with the distinct languages and cultures we now refer to as the Thai and Laos Hill Tribes.

The first use of the name Syam (See-am) was by the Han Chinese, in the early centuries AD, referring to a dark skinned people in west Yunnan who lived "beyond the mountain pass" = Syam in Chinese and it is generally believed they are what are now referred to as the Shan, and were the enemies of early NanChao and later Nanchao (mid-word capitalisation denotes word separation prior to transliteration).  Angkor records talk of units of Syam-Kok in their armies (Chiang Rai Dtai?)

Interestingly, Megrai was Lawa-Dtai as the result of marriage between a Lawa King and a Shan princess from Kentung.  The first king of Ayutthaya was also Dtai.

The indegenes of the period (within modern Thailand's boundaries) were not fierce enough to drive out the Khmer without ingress of politically and militarily more capable influences, and as during the Mon Dvaravati period, it took outsiders to command and co-ordinate the locals into an effective population capable of comminities larger than village muangs.  This may explain why Sukhothai lasted such a short period - the early kings were Mon/Khmer-Siamese without Dtai blood.  Additionally it helps to explain the rapid collapse of early Tai-Siamese kingdoms in the north - Nan, Phayao, Mae Hong Son, Tak etc.  They were not aggressive enough to resist the incomers and fell to Mengrai's LanNa very quickly.

Anyways .... the central plains politicoes have generally disliked the Siam/Syam name as it reminded them that they were the indigenous underdogs to invading Sino-Dtais for the golden era of the lands of the current kingdom ....

- When LanNa controlled a crescent from Assam (NE India) through the Shan States to Northern Thailand and down to the Martaban coast, and from the north through Laos to the Vietnamese Black & Red River valleys.

- When Ayutthaya (with its Dtai royal line) controlled the central plains, the Malay peninsula, Issaan and much of Kampuchia (new name after fall of Angkor but pre-Kampuchea name).

Thus it is that in Thailand, we've had governments of the last 60 years ordering the destruction of all pre-Rama V manuscripts and chronicles, a Thai Rak Thai government ordering the rewriting of school history books to play down Burmese aggression towards Ayutthaya and her successors, Nationalism programmes to "bond and unify" the people, and a constant sniping at the integrity of farangs and their suitability as residents of the kingdom (we like accurate history texts and research from other countries records as well).  There are many parallels in history, and many people compare to Germany in the late twenties and early thirties of the last century, as well as to other more recent examples such as Saddam's Iraq or Communist Vietnam and North Korea.

It is best to regard this thread's topic as a growing pain of a "teenage" nation - one that they will grow out of, before recognising that the truth will always out, and that truthful history attracts more tourism than a fabricated one.  In the end, it will be the tourism dollar that decides the course of action in the modification or preservation of this kingdom's recordings of the past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your thinking makes lots of sense and it's interesting to read about. Then some don't. You have many historical references. What is your source and reference? Please quote that atleast.

Do you think people will buy your rewriting of history just like that???

In the contects you dont make much sense. Not a single stated date?

We all have right for opinions. And that's great, but lets not call opinions stated history.

[Rhys]

No wonder the education system or the Minister of Education is a hoot.. if this is the type of issue that receives major focus. Some where in a tiny village a students is saying WHAT THE PLUK.

Like many Asian systems.. the key is for the villager to rise against the exploitation of the powers-that-try-to-be. The fedal system continues, the land owners take advantage, communism become more interesting..History buffs recall the days of China and pre WWII. NOW the South rises again..

Well, perhaps...this MP is doing a better job with the Milk Money funds...and not using it as their personal kitty..

Actually, from a linguistic approach: PHOO KET... sounds good. The days of Free Siam.. well hang this one on.. FEE Phoo Ket.

Let the Education Minister get back to small classes, better facilities, quality of teaching standard, oh yes.. something called BOOKs.. or print media...This educational hub of Asia, created by the TOXIC think Group does a diservice.. yet another approach...of the TRT agenda.

Give the village child an education that is worthy and respectful to the position the MP tout.. That is the challenge, not candy wrapping for self-promoting interest.

[lukamar]

เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วให้หลิ่วตาตาม

Enter the town squinting causes you to squint afterwards

What does it actually mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't literally translate it as it's sort of a fable. More like = if you go somewhere you have to do as the local people there do. If they squint you squint.

Now for Siam and Thailand.

Went for lunch with the Wife and some Thai friends, in Canada, and asked what they think of a name change. 2 line in Canada, 1 is visiting and one is an Exchange student who will return in August. All 4 of them said that they thought the idea was "Stupid", and would not help problems that are already in Thailand. I also don't think that a change would serve any meaningful purpose, unless you happen to own the Uniform Patch Company that supplies the Government.

[sonnyJ]

เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วให้หลิ่วตาตาม

Enter the town squinting causes you to squint afterwards

What does it actually mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't literally translate it as it's sort of a fable. More like = if you go somewhere you have to do as the local people there do. If they squint you squint.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People in Thailand make sense after all. When u go to Rome do as the romans do. What about when u go to Burma? Well, maybe u dont go to Burma. Anyway...

TRT main agenda, remove poverty, on the second term now. That's khii khwaai to me. What do they do? Something like this. Name of the country will make all the difference. C'mon... I don't want to be a racist, but this government just makes me phuke.

[Airone]

1/ "Thailand, the Siamese Kingdom (the land of smiles!)"

or maybe:

2/ "Siam, the Kingdom of Thailand".

What do you think?

Let's face it, "Thailand" has acquired the connotation of corruption, prostitution (or at least cheap sex), and as far as Bangkok is concerned: pollution. Siam on the other hand is still the exotic and attractive place Europeans (including pommies, I just feel generous today) and maybe Americans as well, dreamed of in their youth.

[farang62]

When I was growing up it was Siam, The "King and I" was a must see movie.

pronunciation has been and will always be a problem. We want tourists, does it really make any difference how their pronunciation is ?

I am an American but I come from the United States, you may be British from The United Kingdom.

My vote goes for Siam especially for tourist promotions, the government will of course use Thailand, but Siam is remembered by most westerners and the name invokes the mysteries and charms of the orient as well

Take Care

Farang62