Thaksin Asset Case: Bt46 Billion Will Be Seized Along With Interests

[rainman]

Thaksin loses 46 billion baht and the other 30 stays frozen pending other cases and and determination of costs and interest.

Care to show me where it says they stay frozen?

ah yes ..... do you read anything in the forums or do you just jump in with your slams against the court or anyone that thinks Thaksin needs to pay for his crimes?

So, again, care to show me where it says they stay frozen? I'd like a link to a reliable source. And don't quote one of your own posts, as I don't consider that a reliable source.

[rainman]

Post 7 in this thread has the quote but not the link for the 30bil still being frozen. The other thread had the link ... this thread should have 2-3 more with why ....

You have a quote from a public forum, but not a reliable source and neither a link to back it up. I think we agree that as of this moment, the official statement released by the judges of the high court of Thailand are a more reliable source than your quote from a public forum?

[jdinasia]

Post 7 in this thread has the quote but not the link for the 30bil still being frozen. The other thread had the link ... this thread should have 2-3 more with why ....

You have a quote from a public forum, but not a reliable source and neither a link to back it up. I think we agree that as of this moment, the official statement released by the judges of the high court of Thailand are a more reliable source than your quote from a public forum?

You mean your uncited source you posted above? Yes I believe that I read what you quoted but I don't think "the official statement by the high court of Thailand" has been released yet and certainly not in English

[rainman]

Post 7 in this thread has the quote but not the link for the 30bil still being frozen. The other thread had the link ... this thread should have 2-3 more with why ....

You have a quote from a public forum, but not a reliable source and neither a link to back it up. I think we agree that as of this moment, the official statement released by the judges of the high court of Thailand are a more reliable source than your quote from a public forum?

You mean your uncited source you posted above? Yes I believe that I read what you quoted but I don't think "the official statement by the high court of Thailand" has been released yet and certainly not in English

MCOT News link to back up my quote: http://www.mcot.net/content/26026

Where's yours?

And yes, the statement has been released, but it's in Thai, so you're forgiven since obviously you don't speak or read Thai, so you don't understand a thing that is being discussed on television. You'll just have to wait for an English translation. Maybe you can go find your source link in the meantime and report back when you found it.

I'll go eat dinner now (it's 3:20am, I know, I work late with overseas) and then I also have a wife to please ...so..goodnight

Edited February 26, 2010 by rainman

[Maestro]

Thai court confiscates $1.4 billion of Thaksin's frozen assets

BANGKOK, Feb 26 (TNA) - Thailand's Supreme Court Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions on Friday seized assets valued at Bt46 billion (US$1.4 billion) from former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra out of the entire Bt76.6 billion ($2.3 billion) in his frozen assets.

In a verdict on the landmark case read out on national television and radio, the nine-judge court said "the majority of the judges rule that Mr Thaksin's fortune in the form of share dividends and portion of the sale of his family telecommunications company Shin Corp worth Bt46.373 billion is to be confiscated to the state treasury as they were accumulated as ill-gotten gains."

The judges said the remaining frozen assets worth Bt39.7 billion will be returned to Mr Thaksin and his ex-wife Pojaman na Pombejra for the sake of fairness as the assets had been acquired before Mr Thaksin became prime minister in 2001.

The court earlier ruled unanimously that the former premier and his ex-wife held shares through proxies and Mr Thaksin himself abused his authority by issuing a cabinet resolution to favour his own telecom empire.

The judges ruled that Mr Thaksin still holds shares through his children and another relative and retains his decision-making authority in Shin Corp, the telecommunications company founded by Mr Thaksin himself.

The majority of judges also ruled that Mr Thaksin had abused his authority to issue government policies converting mobile-phone operators' concession fee into excise tax which unfairly benefited Advanced Info Service (AIS), the flagship company of Shin Corp controlled by his family and the country's largest service provider.

Mr Thaksin's action caused the state a loss of Bt60 billion in excise tax collections, the judges said. In its seven-hour verdict reading, the judges said that Mr Thaksin abused his power to benefit Shinsat, another unit of Shin Corp through inappropriate means including amendment of satellite concession contract and approval of the IPSTAR satellite, causing loss to the state.

The court also ruled that Mr Thaksin abused his power to favour his Shin Satellite Plc through the approval of Bt4 billion ($127 million) loans to the Myanmar government to buy materials and satellite services from Shin Satellite, then controlled by his family.

Shortly after the court ended its verdict announcement, Mr Thaksin addressed his Red Shirt supporters at opposition Puea Thai Party headquarters in Bangkok via a video link from Dubai, lamenting he is merely a political victim.

Speaking on a TV show broadcast via his son's satellite television channel that the court verdict was very political, the fugitive ex-premier said that he wore black suit to mourn for his stubborness that he did not listen to his children

and wife who asked him not to enter politics.

"When I listened to the verdict, I feel like the time the Thai Rak Thai Party was dissolved," said the ex-premier."The court was politically used."

The telecom tycoon-turned-prime minister apologised to his children for causing trouble to the family, while saying that what had happened to him is a lesson that a businessman should stay away from politics.

"Let me be the last political victim of the injustice," said Mr Thaksin. "There will not be any more political victims like me once the democracy and the checks and balances system are established in this country. I don't want to see the country's judicial institution in this way."

Mr Thaksin however urged his Red Shirt supporters not to use any violence, while also thanked them for not protesting on the verdict reading day.

Thaksin's ex-wife and children have not turned up at the court but are represented by defence lawyers.

The Shinawatra family lawyer said he will discuss with his clients before making a decision whether or not to appeal the verdict.

Decisions by Thailand’s Supreme Court are final under the letter of the law, but under court procedures here defence attorneys may present new evidence relating to the case within 30 days. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-02-26

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[dillon]

Respect and compliments to the members of the court who had to work through mountains of documents to arrive at a correct decision.

I agree - a nasty mess to have to have ruled on. I am quite impressed with the judgement. IMO there was obviously some wrong doings however he was voted in and to get to the bottom of it must ahve been a nightmare. It seems fair to me and i would presume this verdict can be challenged (or is it a "final" supreme court judgement.) Either way the court has ruled and we should respect this and move on - let the blame this and that stop and hope that every voter realises that the system was flawed and the court has ruled the accused used his position for personal gain.

He gets to keep anything earned prior to his appoinyment as PM and to me it seems right that he should have left his personal financial gain at the door when he took over office.

If tax evasion charges etc are due then they should be brought and not taken as a further belief that he is being harrassed and victimised - its a matter of course.

Edited February 26, 2010 by dillon

[Maestro]

jdinasia and rainman, the above post is the English version of the article on the Thai MCOT site to which rainman linked here. Hope that settles your argument.

--

Maestro

[dillon]

What would be interesting to know is, how will "Thailand" (I use quotes because Thailand would include the Thai people, but they really don't get any of the money, so...) will use the 1.4 billion dollars. Will it be used to help the Thai people who live in poverty? Or will it simply disappear into the back pockets of all the people involved in the witch-hunt?

In my opinion, fair would be to return it to people who paid taxes in the first palce and then it could be used for improvement of the social system.

and preciscely how would one work out who paid taxes - not paying taxes does not exclude you from the right to vote

[gregb]

jdinasia and rainman, the above post is the English version of the article on the Thai MCOT site to which rainman linked here. Hope that settles your argument.

--

Maestro

I think alot of the confusion comes from this blog entry:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/02/26/entry-1

Note that the supreme court did not order the freeze, but it is anticipated that other state agencies with a claim against the money will successfully petition the court to keep the assets frozen.

[kimamey]

It was said that 76 billion were seized. Now 46 are to be retained. What happens to the remaining 30 billion? Are they to be returned to the man who took them from the thai people?

Not sure of the details but I assume the 30 billion is money he gained before coming to office and was not gained by misuse of that office. That's why it can't be seized.

Of course there could well be arguments about how honestly he gained that money even though he did not get it through misuse of office.

[dillon]

Speaking on a TV show broadcast via his son's satellite television channel that the court verdict was very political, the fugitive ex-premier said that he wore black suit to mourn for his stubborness that he did not listen to his children

and wife who asked him not to enter politics.

If im not very much mistaken his son, when asked during the press campaign for the launch of his tv station said that he would not use the channel as a vehicle for his fathers political opinion

"Panthongtae Shinawatra promised the channel would be free from political prejudice and hoped to target young viewers."

[eggomaniac]

Thai court confiscates $1.4 billion of Thaksin's frozen assets

."When I listened to the verdict, I feel like the time the Thai Rak Thai Party was dissolved," said the ex-premier."The court was politically used.""Let me be the last political victim of the injustice," said Mr Thaksin. "There will not be any more political victims like me once the democracy and the checks and balances system are established in this country. I don't want to see the country's judicial institution in this way."

-- TNA 2010-02-26

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

I completely Understand the TV media outlet is like a 'guest' entity in Thailand and has to be very and overly careful around rules of lese majeste and 'criticizing court rulings'.

Even tough bent over backwards on this one, the OP and subsequent news releases clearly quotes criticisms of the ruling made by Thaksin and his deputy. The cat got out of the bag, before the warning.

I am sure glad I think the ruling was fair and balanced. If I didn't I would be so tempted to say so. It looks like the judges saved me on this one, but Thaksin definetly violated TV rules and should get a ban.

I hope y'all see the humor of this my friends.

[Maestro]

jdinasia and rainman, the above post is the English version of the article on the Thai MCOT site to which rainman linked here. Hope that settles your argument.

--

Maestro

I think alot of the confusion comes from this blog entry:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/02/26/entry-1

Note that the supreme court did not order the freeze, but it is anticipated that other state agencies with a claim against the money will successfully petition the court to keep the assets frozen.

frodo posted it here with attribution to The Nation but without a link. Reading it I assumed he copied it from a tweet of tulsathit, a Nation editor who gave a running account of the court's reading on his twitter account and for this reason I let it stand. Subsequently, the Nation published this:

However, the rest of Bt30.24-billion assets would be returned because they belonged to the former premier and his family before taking the public office in 2001.

Yet, Bt12 billion of this Bt30.24 billion is likely to remain frozen because of back taxes levied by the Revenue Department.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...0-30123600.html

For full article see next post.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

High Court rules to seize Bt46 bn out of Thaksin's pocket

In a historic anti-graft case, the majority of Thailand's nine Supreme Court judges yesterday voted to confiscate Bt46.37 billion worth of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's assets out of the total Bt76.6 billion.

The Bt46.37 billion are in 35 bank accounts and unit trusts frozen by the state.

However, the rest of Bt30.24-billion assets would be returned because they belonged to the former premier and his family before taking the public office in 2001.

Yet, Bt12 billion of this Bt30.24 billion is likely to remain frozen because of back taxes levied by the Revenue Department.

All nine judges yesterday spent seven hours and 20 minutes taking turn to read the lengthy landmark verdict.

The judges voted unanimously that the fugitive ex-premier had illegally concealed his massive wealth during his two terms of public office.

Then, the majority of judges ruled that Thaksin had abused his authority on several counts to benefit his family-owned Shin Corp and its subsidiaries, resulting in a massive public damage.

The verdict clearly states that more than half of the entire Bt76.6 billion assets frozen by the state following the Sept 19 2006 coup were ill-gotten.

Yet, the judges agreed that Bt30.24 billion of the entire amount belonged to Thaksin and his family before the former assumed the first term of public office on Feb 7, 2001.

Prior to that date, the court found that the price of Shin Corp's stock was Bt213.09 per share. Since the stock's par value was back then Bt10 per share (compared to today's Bt1 following a share split), the stock price should then be around Bt21.30 per share.

Given the fact that Thaksin and his family held a total of 1.41 billion shares, the combined value of their holdings was then Bt30.2 billion.

In the judges' opinion, it would be unfair to confiscate this amount.

Regarding the Bt46.37 billion confiscated by the state, the majority of judges ruled that this lawsuit as filed by the Office of Attorney-General is centred on the allegations that a former public office holder had amassed his wealth illegally while in office.

Therefore, the judges voted to confiscate about Bt6 billion worth of dividends from the massive stockholdings since this amount represented gains resulting from abuses of the public office.

The judges also voted to confiscate the remainder of money resulting from the sales of all 1.41 billion shares to Temasek Holdings of Singapore -- after deducting the Bt30.2-billion portion owned by Thaksin and his family before the start of the former's public office.

On abuses of the public office, the judges ruled that Thaksin had clearly executed government policies to benefit Advance Info Service (AIS), the flagship of Shin Corp.

The pre-paid mobile phone concession contract between state-owned TOT and AIS was amended, with the revenue-sharing percentage reduced from 25 per cent to only 20 per cent, resulting in a state damage estimated to be Bt70 billion.

Secondly, the state-owned TOT was damaged when telecom roaming charges were deducted from concession fees, even though AIS was not the direct beneficiary at the time.

Third, the judges ruled the amendments to the concession contract between the transport ministry and Shin Sat, another unit of Shin Corp, had clearly benefited the latter.

Originally, Shin Sat was supposed to send Thaicom 4, a back-up satellite, into orbit, according to the concession contract.

However, this was later changed so that Shin Sat could switch to send IP Star, a different type of commercial satellite, into orbit.

Fourth, the judges ruled that Shin Sat had also clearly benefited from Thaksin's verbal order for the Foreign Ministry and state-owned Exim Bank to provide a Bt4-billion loan to the government of Myanmar.

The loan was used to buy equipment and satellite services from Shin Sat while the Finance Ministry later on had to set aside a budget to subsidise the low-interest loan.

-- The Nation 2010-02-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[dillon]

I dont understand this "majority" decison - is this an effort to calm the 'witchhunt' thing , was one of the judges set in his ways or was the minority a different person per judgement - would be interesting to find out exactly who voted on what....

what i mean is that was the majority thing trying to qualm the guilty guilty guilty verdict by ways of showing some kind of empathy - i wonder if this is fact or a political move - (ie - we dont ALL think he's bad)

[mca]

Now that a precedent has been set about being unusually rich and the legal consequences of such I'm looking forward to a new chapter for Thailand and a glorious new era with a spring clean of some members of the higher echelons of the armed forces and hear them explain how they manage to eke out a hedonistic lifestyle on their military salaries.

Who am I kidding?

[brahmburgers]

It's alleged by the court that Thaksin earned around Bt.30 billion before he took office (as a cop with a computer store !) and that the added 46 billion in the ensuing few years was amassed illegally using the leverage of the PM's office.

Image, for a moment, if Thaksin had not been ousted by the coup. Each year, he and his family would have been amassing ever more fortune, ....the numbers would have been phenomenal. They would have made Marcos' or Sukarno's or Bokassa's or Papa Doc's fortunes look like pocket change in comparison. Not only that, with Thaksin's fixation for controlling everyone and every facet of Thai government, Thailand would have digressed to resemble a meld of North Korea and Burma.

I don't like coup d'etats any more than I like cancer surgery, but in the big picture of things, the coup was sorely needed by Thailand and its people.

Edited February 26, 2010 by brahmburgers

[mca]

Thailand would have digressed to resemble a meld of North Korea and Burma.

;

With regards to the freedom of expression of the former and the military being involved in politics of the latter they're well on the way already without Thaksin's help I reckon.

Edited February 26, 2010 by mca

[whistleblower]

Why did they only take 46.363 bill. Because the tax man want's his bit + he has more court case's in the pipe line. By the time they have finished with him, and his family, they will get the lot. Might take a year or two but mark my word's.

What an ignorant comment

Is it <deleted> an ignorant comment!!!! probably the most honest and true comment so far!. let me guess you believe the money seized will be distributed amongst the poor?????

How much of the Tsunami money that poured in actually went to victims??? Last i read on this site the early warning system was defunct cos no one wanted to front for a new batterry!!!

Yes it is ignorant - just as your comment, is also a gross distortion of events.

This decision today was a very importnant issue for Thailand and the workings of the country.

It was not sensational.

It was done with great consideration.

As George pointed out earlier, it is not for us to criticize the decisions handed down.

They are, what they are.

And whilst you might have some valid reasons, for making your outlandish comments about the money donated to the vrious tsunami appeals, they have nothing to do with this case.

If you want to believe today's verdicts were nothing more than a perpetuation of things, as they have so often been in Thailand's past, I feel sorry for you.

I happen to want to believe, this country has a chance to go forward, after today.

But, more - if not just for the vested interests of my Thai family - I want Thai people; that is, all Thai people, to have the chance to live in a country which is truly free and one where it's people; all its people, are given an equal opportunity, to live up to their expectations.

Im afarid that will only happen when its people, all its people people stop selling their vote to the highest bidder. You now have all the red shirts vowing to fight on, fight on against what??? the descision of the highest court in the land? because it didnt go the way of their paymaster?? everyday day Thai people accept corruption as a way of life. Until they stop doing that Thailand will never be a free country.

[Colabamumbai]

I think that the court probably made a good decision considering that they had a few options.

[Tokay]

Honestly, if some country stole 1 BILLION dollars of my money, and I had another billion left over, I'd use it to start a war to destroy those who stole from me.

That is wrath of God type of money. I'd slay every falang in Thailand while he slept for that kind of cash.

[Tokay]

Honestly, if some country stole 1 BILLION dollars of my money, and I had another billion left over, I'd use it to start a war to destroy those who stole from me.

That is wrath of God type of money. I'd slay every falang in Thailand while he slept for that kind of cash.

To be clear, the money was not stolen from him, but I'm sure in his eyes, it was.

[brahmburgers]

Honestly, if some country stole 1 BILLION dollars of my money, and I had another billion left over, I'd use it to start a war to destroy those who stole from me. That is wrath of God type of money. I'd slay every falang in Thailand while he slept for that kind of cash.

Glad we don't share a dorm. But I see your point if you put yourself in Thaksin's shoes:

He declared several times in recent years that he was totally, completely done with politics. Those assertions, along with everything else he states emphatically, turned out to be lies. It's gotten to where, whenever a Shinawat says something with conviction, you can bet it's a lie. Sort of like the Bizarro clan in the Superman comic book series.

[joker1973]

I think the interests should be paid by the banks.

Aren't they the ones that got them?

The problem is we don't have the court decision in English, not even completely in Thai yet I think. The courts reasoning might be that the 46 billion belonged to the state and were illegally taken. Thus the state missed out on the interest over the 46 billion, so Thaksin has to pay that as well. Also Thaksin himself received interest on his ill gotten gains, it would not be fair to let him keep that.

Why is it a problem that the verdict is not written in English?

It has nothing to do with non Thais and therefore there is absolutely no reason to release the verdict in english other than to give some dim witted know it all farangs something to gossip and speculate about. Get over yourselves, your opinion has no weight whatsoever in Thailand's affairs

[Colabamumbai]

I think the interests should be paid by the banks.

Aren't they the ones that got them?

The problem is we don't have the court decision in English, not even completely in Thai yet I think. The courts reasoning might be that the 46 billion belonged to the state and were illegally taken. Thus the state missed out on the interest over the 46 billion, so Thaksin has to pay that as well. Also Thaksin himself received interest on his ill gotten gains, it would not be fair to let him keep that.

Why is it a problem that the verdict is not written in English?

It has nothing to do with non Thais and therefore there is absolutely no reason to release the verdict in english other than to give some dim witted know it all farangs something to gossip and speculate about. Get over yourselves, your opinion has no weight whatsoever in Thailand's affairs

You are correct the decision has nothing to do with us foreigners and one reason I like living here is that I cannot criticize the Thai Government or courts, because I respect them. Where as if I was in Canada my native land I would have a lot of criticism, because I have little respect for them.

[selftaopath]

Respect and compliments to the members of the court who had to work through mountains of documents to arrive at a correct decision.

Agree. Wouldn't it be wonderful for Thailand and the beautiful Thai people if these types of decisions and actions continue. The entire nation might realize corruption hurts the country and the typical honest, hard working Thai. Thai people really deserve better.

Keoki

[dsfbrit]

Well it seems to me that this decision leaves Thaksin a very rich man still. I suppose future cases could reduce his fortune further, but he must feel fairly satisfied at the moment. I have not read all the details, but does this mean the money not confiscated is now returned to him and his family.

[craigt3365]

Honestly, if some country stole 1 BILLION dollars of my money, and I had another billion left over, I'd use it to start a war to destroy those who stole from me.

That is wrath of God type of money. I'd slay every falang in Thailand while he slept for that kind of cash.

I believe he initiated the stealing....the court ruling was well thought out and perfectly articulated. I think they did a great job. And how can a cop become a billionaire??? How often do you see that happening in developed countries???? Pretty rare...but not here.

Maybe this is truly a turning point for Thailand? Getting a free and independent judicial system? Houses being torn down in Khao Yai, head of Thai Air getting canned, PM losing money...mabye things are looking up????? Next thing we'll see cops actually giving tickets for things like passing on the sholder at 140km? Or triple turns at lights? Wow...that would be something!

[lazygourmet]

Speaking on a TV show broadcast via his son's satellite television channel that the court verdict was very political, the fugitive ex-premier said that he wore black suit to mourn for his stubborness that he did not listen to his children

and wife who asked him not to enter politics.

If im not very much mistaken his son, when asked during the press campaign for the launch of his tv station said that he would not use the channel as a vehicle for his fathers political opinion

"Panthongtae Shinawatra promised the channel would be free from political prejudice and hoped to target young viewers."

Like father like son: pathetic liars!

[Thailand]

"Compensation" or "reparation" however a convicted criminal and fugitive remains unfettered outside of a Thai prison cell.

Whatever your political persuasion, Taksin Shinawatra's actions are a breach of the Rule of Law.

I wonder what would be the outcome should the same rule of law be applied to ALL past/current (perhaps) senior ministers pm's etc.

No actually I don't wonder, this being Thailand they would have all had their fingers in various pies. Unfortunately for Thaksin he was not of the elite class and has gotten stomped on. Being the guy he is I am pretty well sure their is a considerable amount of money not in Thailand.

Hopefully with the not unexpected partial (on paper) compromise the country can now move on to free and fair elections.