Is Sex Without Love Wrong?

[Boo]

and the same applied for the other way around, jut for clarification. It isn't the prostitution or the act of paying for one that I have any issue with, it's the hypocrisy that seems to spew forth when trying to justify it.

Ian in his op is trying to imply that by buying sex is the same as going out a a free man, meeting a free woman, getting it on & then going your separate ways. One night of passion where nothing more is exchange except body fluids & some fun. Buying a sex parter is & never will be the same as that imo.

[elcent]

and there in lies ( ) my point. Removing the free choice by paying someone to have sex with you therefore means that person isn't a free & willing participant.

Come on. Most attractive prostitutes have so many customers that they can pick and choose clients as much as they like. They can easily say no if they don't want to participate.

When it comes to Westerners, some people are in relationships because of money and they would not be there without it. What is that but prostitution?

One must also consider the backgrounds of girls being lured into prostitution. Most of them have either or all experienced of being raped by teachers, fathers, police, army, trained for local consumption, and some for getting their names in the house registrations and so forth and before hitting the farang red-light districts. Don't blame them. It goes a way deeper than most selfish reasoned persons can imagine.

It's a pimping industry with many uprooted female pimps as well.

I have seen it myself. Real love, an unconditional one, can change the course of these unfortunate women. But being selfish and provide unconditional love doesn't fit together. Of course there are many facets and color shades to be considered but please don't blame.

Just call them Sisters of Mercy, and many will find a way back into love and life.

[Ulysses G.]

How about situations where one person spends a lot of money on the other and that is the motivation for sex and for getting together again or for a short or longterm relationship? There are lots of reasons that people consent to have sex with another person and they are not all noble. Supposedly "free" sex is just not that black and white.

[SeanMoran]

How about situations where one person spends a lot of money on the other and that is the motivation for sex and for getting together again or for a short or longterm relationship? There are lots of reasons that people consent to have sex with another person and they are not all noble. Supposedly "free" sex is just not that black and white.

Would it be fair to suggest that unlike the country I came from, where sex is portrayed as some sort of sacred yet dirty and forbidden ritual for various reasons, here it's still a special thing, but perhaps it's looked on as a natural part of life; human nature, without all the Victorian attitudes we might have been taught at school?

In other words, sex without love maybe wrong if I think like an Australian, but if I try my best to imagine what it would be like to think like a Thai, it's not necessarily wrong at all.

[eurasianthai]

Buying a sex parter is & never will be the same as that imo.

Indeed since there is no freewill from the the one being bought.

[Ulysses G.]

How much "love" is actually involved most of the time anyway?

[elcent]

How much "love" is actually involved most of the time anyway?

Real Love needs to be trained like a muscle if you want to become spotless. It's a constant workout with your beloved ones. Everything else is meaningless, careless and selfish. One should not wonder when they get pulled over the table. Sometime it hits a kind of innocent men too. Sure none is a brother of mercy, but lust.

I remember from the not so distant past that grand moms had the baby girls sitting on their thumb to check if they like it and so to determine the girl's fate. This is something many know in Thailand, but hardly ever one talked about it.

Edited March 5, 2010 by elcent

[eurasianthai]

How much "love" is actually involved most of the time anyway?

Real Love needs to be trained like a muscle if you want to become spotless. It's a constant workout with your beloved ones. Everything else is meaningless, careless and selfish.

It is not really a workout if you understand that "Everything else is meaningless, careless and selfish".

Especially meaningless actually.

[elcent]

no matter what ones confession is, be it Christian, Buddhist or Yin and Yang

The place of a man(yang) is to be the creative principle and the place of Yin the female principle or the passive. Both are powerful by itself and can only function through unconditional love so to create balance in this world we live. Don't tell me that there's no meaning in the difference of man and woman, unless you're a gay or lesbian.

It goes a bit to deep if I'd continue on that. I don't have the time at hand to explain further at the moment.

[howto]

Of course it is wrong.

And this is an insane stupid post.

OP, describe "love". Lets get that out of way first.

In your concept, does it include thunderbolts and lightening?

Love "usually" does not come from that.

Usually "love" in built up over time,

including friendship and trust.

And lust of course.

You speak of "morality", and implying "ethics".

Ummm, in the 250+ women that have had me (their choice),

(back home), nothing paid,

they were not concerned with "morality" and "ethics".

They were horney and wanted to get laid.

Almost all women are like this.

The are the same as men.

They want great sex.

Will settle for ok sex.

Something is better than nothing I guess.

Why do you think Thai women are different?

Just because you "do" bar girls?

Yes, they are different, and for good reason.

I will give you a hint, a tip:

If you meet a woman, while you are sober,

and you get an instant "boner" just from being around her,

then you found her.

It will happen every time you are near her. You can't help it.

Pheromones. Your body knows what your brain does not.

I've been married to my Thai wife for 20 years.

I still get a boner any time she is near me,

unless we have already done it at least twice.

A secret even my wife does not know...

I was the Technical Director and was at a Christmas Party.

I arrived late.

An attractive woman, perhaps 25, was there.

Surrounded by 6 male Thais, and they getting her drunk.

I kept my distance, she came over and chatted me up for a bit.

I excused myself and went to the stairwell for a smoke.

She comes in moments later and jumps me,

full body press and tongue.

I returned the kiss, fondled her beasts and tush.

I'm certain she found xtasy by her actions, moans and loose knees.

Then suddenly one of those "young men" from inside came looking for her

and literally dragged her away. Yes I was happy she was gone.

If you are a young man, 20's~30's, and single,

go for all the non-commitment you want here in LoS.

That will certainly change as you are in your 40's or 50's.

Then you can just hind-suck the dregs.

Have children with "whatever" you can get,

being old and beer-swilling, and butterfly that you will be.

Die before your children graduate college.

Of course you will be broken, and be broke by then

by those terrible Thai women whom say "yu hasome".

Or your member being removed and fed to a duck.

Becase you are a "butterfly".

At some point you will have to grow up.

Or perhaps not.

I'm thankful you did not post this in

the forum "Ladies in Thailand".

They would have seriously taken you to task,

and chewed your ass for this dumb post.

But you are troll aren't you.

Cheers

[eurasianthai]

A bit long but nice one

[SeanMoran]

... describe "love". Lets get that out of way first.

In your concept, does it include thunderbolts and lightening? ...

Love is an action. Cathexis is an emotional feeling that people regularly confuse with 'love'.

If you pave her back verandah, mow her lawns, take her sick children to the doctors, give her all the money she needs and stuff like that, then you're in love. Feelings of lust and attraction are nothing more than cathexis in your own mind.

[Neeranam]

I thought discussing prostitution was against forum rules. Ok for some it seems.

[Boo]

raise it to support (at) thaivisa.com

[Neeranam]

raise it to support (at) thaivisa.com

nah nevermind

[eurasianthai]

I thought discussing prostitution was against forum rules. Ok for some it seems.

Sex without love is only through prostitution?

[howto]

I would apologize to the OP and the Admin for my comments.

As to the young woman in my tale, she did get in serious trouble.

Both the MD of our company and the MD of the Parent asked me about this.

Including the HR manager of the Parent company.

Seems those young Thai men, like roosters, squawked loud to everyone.

Is that not so typical!!!

I told them all...

she was very drunk because of the young Thai men,

and she came out to see me because she wanted to go home.

She thought it was safer with me..

I even took the HR manager to lunch to discuss this.

I was trying to save her job, her position.

She kept her job.

All of those young Thai men were dismissed.

eurasianthai,

perhaps you missed the point of my long post.

But to answer your question...

No, sex without love does not equal prostitution.

prostitution: you know you have to pay for it "then".

Teenagers and adults do it every day, searching for the one.

Actually many married couples are in that same boat.

Let me state it another way...

If you can not be around her without being horney,

even if you are sick as a dog,

then she is the one.

Well it depends on the time of the month also.

Luv you Boo and Neeranam.

(and sbk and bina, sorry if I left anyone out)

[cognos]

Why would it be wrong.. sex is fun no need to have love and sex. Its just a need that needs be satisfied like hunger.

Too bad christians and others put a whole moral code around it and try to impose it on others.

not all friend..in general you may be correct, but specifically, you are wrongo..I'm a christian ( notice small c ) and i don't put a moral code around it..sex and love are (almost) 2 different things. i had as much fun having sex with thai ladies I did not particularly love ( prior to marriage) as with my thai wife, whom i love.. this is dangerous territory if she reads it, but it is the truth..

sex is an "animal" act, like fighting or eating..I have no problem with someone having sex for sex's sake, so I am not in the category of sexual prude, thank goodness.. to be judgemental in that area would mean i was judgemental in other areas, and mine is not to judge..

signed: mine is not to question why, mine is just to do( heh heh heh) and die..

[britmaveric]

Shag is a shag, got nought to do with love. If you are in love makes it all the better, but don't need love to satisfy one's self.

If someone wants to pay for it, up to them I do not care. At the end of the day that's their business. As for the lad/lady offering said service... up to them.

[Patsycat]

So, did you guys all have a good Friday night out then?

[MAJIC]

Hmmm is the question actually "Is prostitution or paying for sex wrong?" or is it "is sex without love wrong?"

Those two questions are not the same. The question is bound up with what actually constitutes consent. If both (or more) participants are there not to survive but because they want to have fun, then hey! Have fun! However, if one of the participants is there to survive then it seems there is a form of economic coersion going on. imho.... of course

I have to say that being an adult gay man certainly does give me an advantage in Thailand and everywhere else where homosexuality is not condemned. Men like sex

This is aIong the Iines of what i was thinking too. I dont think many have any kind of issue about casuaI sex between two consenting aduIts. Its no-ones business but theirs (weII..of course Iines get bIurred if one of those peopIe are married etc, so i guess you couId say as Iong as no-one gets hurt, or its not harming anyone. But reaIIy depends on each circumstance). When it comes to paying for sex, then you have to think about the reasons the person is seIIing their body. If they had any reaI choice or say, wouId they have sex with the person who is paying them..weII quite probabIy not. Circumstances cause them to have no reaI choice. SeIIing their bodies because its their best commodity and they can make more money. Sure, a person couId choose to earn some crap money cIeaning toiIets etc, but then, what future can they give their kids/famiIy/etc? If there was a reaI comparative option/choice i am sure many wouId not into prostitution. You can argue that the girIs/boys are greedy and they want easy money..but in aII honest there is reaIIy nothing easy about having to Iet severaI strangers do what they want to your body. In aII honesty guys, if some man offered you x amount of cash (a few thousand baht) to invade your body, wouId you Iet him? Im guessing not. Why? Because you are in a position where you are not desperate and can reaIisticaIIy say no.

Of course this wont go down weII..and as we are discussing that which shouId not be discussed..wiII IikeIy get cIosed soon anyway..so nvm.

And so endeth lesson 1 on Morals

[britmaveric]

And so endeth lesson 1 on Morals

Depends who you ask which is the great thing about being an individual...

[GrahamF]

So, did you guys all have a good Friday night out then?

It's still very cold here in the USA, so I think I am going to stay home and knit a cashmere willie warmer for myself!

[Shoegazer]

I think it cant possibly be good to pay for sex. Good in the sense of affecting your energy or karma (for lack of a better term i cant explain it really...), due to a couple of supernatural incidents told to me. Kinda gave me the strong impression that the universe sees it as a negative act.

But all supernatural-religious nonsense aside, paying for sex is not the same as having consensual sex. Sure if you look at the word, its still consensual but only because there is payment involved. There is the whole other element of money - consideration (in legal terms) that determines if she/he will consent or not.

i dont buy the crap that prostitutes chose their profession. You can try to console and convince yourself but i dont believe that a person would willingly chose to sell their body to strangers for cash. They may be ok with it, come to terms, enjoy the cash - but it doesnt mean that they want to do so (esp given the chance of an alternative).

Please explain. I know lots of ex junkies and they are very good human beings.

U must live in some amazing places,as i dont know any ex or current junkies.

Your social circle must be small, try meeting other people from different backgrounds or social stratas etc - you'll find good human beings. I daresay the good people that i know come from the hardest backgrounds, usually its the rich, hiso cushy ones that are douches.

[cognos]

Of course it is wrong. Of course the sex-addicts will say otherwise to justify their activities

Yeah right, let me know when you find sex WITH love in Thailand. A rare situation indeed. There sure are a lot of sex addicts here(in LOS) then, men/woman; Thai and Farang.

okay, I will comply with your request.. it was..three years ago..I found sex WITH love in Thailand..errr errr..but it was love WITHOUT sex at first, as she made me wait to marry her before we had sex..so i went .....out and had sex WITHOUT love with other thai women, until i married her, then it was sex WITH love in Thailand.

A rare situation indeed? ..probably not, but each to their own eh??

Strange as it seems, sex without love, or sex with love, still produced the desired result in most cases.

signed: six of one, half dozen of the other

[elcent]

It looks like freedom but it feels like death

It's something in between I guess

[britmaveric]

i dont buy the crap that prostitutes chose their profession. You can try to console and convince yourself but i dont believe that a person would willingly chose to sell their body to strangers for cash. They may be ok with it, come to terms, enjoy the cash - but it doesnt mean that they want to do so (esp given the chance of an alternative).

Of course its a profession and yes they like to do it. How do you explain those in the middle/upper classes freelancing? Uni student? This isn't the same as a street hooker in the west. Some of these birds make more dosh then doctors/lawyers.

[cognos]

..Some of these birds make more dosh then doctors/lawyers...

uhhhh.. is dosh like tush???..

signed: the means justify the ends

[endure]

And so endeth lesson 1 on Morals

Morals are like fingerprints. Everyone has a set and they're all different.

[Ulysses G.]

i dont buy the crap that prostitutes chose their profession. You can try to console and convince yourself but i dont believe that a person would willingly chose to sell their body to strangers for cash. They may be ok with it, come to terms, enjoy the cash - but it doesnt mean that they want to do so (esp given the chance of an alternative).

Of course its a profession and yes they like to do it. How do you explain those in the middle/upper classes freelancing? Uni student? This isn't the same as a street hooker in the west. Some of these birds make more dosh then doctors/lawyers.

Some posters claim that that those who don't have a problem with paying for sex are having to make excuses to justify it, but there seems to be plenty of that going around on both sides. Is there even such a thing as "free" sex in this part of the world?