If You Have A Half-thai Daughter..

[NADTATIDA1]

Interesting - the fact that we can conclude, there are a fair amount of Farang, with sons to a Thai wife, who are posting a preference for their son to marry a western girl!!!

This is exactly what i thought when first reading the post and voting,i do not see it as racism only wanting what is best for your kids.

The very same reason most of our Thai companions chose a westerner.

My point is not to do with racism - my thought is, why would a western man married and having children with a Thai......want his son to marry a western girl, and not a Thai girl as he has?

Yes interesting!

[eggomaniac]

I want my daughter to marry a westerner,not German or French, to get a big sinsot.

Want my lad to marry a westerner so I won't have to pay sinsot.

Oh Oh, be careful what you ask for. you are forgetting the cost of the wedding and dowry the fathers' of brides in the West have to pay, $$$ hmm or wait a minute..., is that largely regarded as an old fashioned, extinct, sexist tradition, like sod sin should be? [buying wives in the 21rst century!? sheesh]

I just wish the Poll had my, possible, but not likely, favorite option, a wealthy Arabian Prince, .........................................for my son , i could visit the harem.

snicker snicker snicker

[eggomaniac]

hmmm... as 9 of 10 of the Replies pointed out, in this day and age, race should not be a factor.

Look Who's Coming to Dinner was a movie for the times, decades ago!

Participation in the Poll cannot be completed without making a decision based on race, so you will have a difficult time explaining how you 'do not see it as racism' !?

I think when a moderator gets around to viewing this Topic, they will cross reference it to the Rules.

I hope my daughter ends up with a very nice citizen of the planet Earth!

Sorry, but I think it's a stretch to call "Westerner" a race. As if all Westerners are of a single race? A Westerner of African or Asian ancestry is still a Westerner. Quite obviously it's the cultural background that's relevant here, but let me hasten to confirm this since you raised the issue. Going by your logic, debating every single cultural feature that's unique to Thailand would be racism when debated vis a vis a Western/"Farang" background / culture? Actually I struggle to even call 'Thai' a race; it's a nationality. (And no, I don't want to go there in this topic beyond pointing out that there are Thais from various backgrounds such as Chinese, Khmer, Lao, Malay, and various hilltribes.)

And then, you're from Canada, possibly THE most ethnically diverse country in the world. I would not hesitate for a second to include every single Canadian as Western. I hope that goes some way to put the challenge to bed. Either way the "It doesn't matter to me" option seems the appropriate one for people who don't want to make a cultural-background-based decision.

( I apologize if the tone of this post is overly combative, but getting accused of racism is upsetting to me. )

I don't think you are ill intentioned, but READ 9 of ten Replies who commented that race should have nothing to do with! The topic is only and all about race, I don't think you thought through it.

How can I explain? hmm where is the option to vote for a person of African descent, or to vote for a Jew, or Arab, or an Aboriginal?

My daughter is in KG with farangs, blacks, asians, aboriginals. We don't think, which race do we hope she attends a birthday party of!?

Your original OP reveals you are already thinking about whether your offspring will mate with a certain nationality, or not; do you even have children? Do you really think those are 'intertesting' thoughts to entertain. If so, you are 'entitled' but you can't say choosing mates based on race is not racism, it IS.

okay edit, because I am guessing your reply,,, hmm' something like ''' when the time comes your children will be free to choose their mates, regardless of race.. all I the Poll is asking is what race you would, then, be happier with''' please, please don't make that Reply,, it would be too inexplicable and still racist

Edited March 6, 2010 by eggomaniac

[IanForbes]

I sense some racism in this thread.

I don't, but what I sense is the parents here want the best choice their offspring can make. It depends a lot on WHERE the offspring decides to live. Despite what some people like to think, there IS a form of social racism here in Thailand and other parts of Asia. There ARE social problems with mixed marriages, and there is a male dominated heirarchy of Thailand. But, there is also the case where white skin is treasured in Thailand, and a fair skinned girl will have less problems.

[473geo]

hmmm... as 9 of 10 of the Replies pointed out, in this day and age, race should not be a factor.

Look Who's Coming to Dinner was a movie for the times, decades ago!

Participation in the Poll cannot be completed without making a decision based on race, so you will have a difficult time explaining how you 'do not see it as racism' !?

I think when a moderator gets around to viewing this Topic, they will cross reference it to the Rules.

I hope my daughter ends up with a very nice citizen of the planet Earth!

Sorry, but I think it's a stretch to call "Westerner" a race. As if all Westerners are of a single race? A Westerner of African or Asian ancestry is still a Westerner. Quite obviously it's the cultural background that's relevant here, but let me hasten to confirm this since you raised the issue. Going by your logic, debating every single cultural feature that's unique to Thailand would be racism when debated vis a vis a Western/"Farang" background / culture? Actually I struggle to even call 'Thai' a race; it's a nationality. (And no, I don't want to go there in this topic beyond pointing out that there are Thais from various backgrounds such as Chinese, Khmer, Lao, Malay, and various hilltribes.)

And then, you're from Canada, possibly THE most ethnically diverse country in the world. I would not hesitate for a second to include every single Canadian as Western. I hope that goes some way to put the challenge to bed. Either way the "It doesn't matter to me" option seems the appropriate one for people who don't want to make a cultural-background-based decision.

( I apologize if the tone of this post is overly combative, but getting accused of racism is upsetting to me. )

I don't think you are ill intentioned, but READ 9 of ten Replies who commented that race should have nothing to do with! The topic is only and all about race, I don't think you thought through it.

How can I explain? hmm where is the option to vote for a person of African descent, or to vote for a Jew, or Arab, or an Aboriginal?

My daughter is in KG with farangs, blacks, asians, aboriginals. We don't think, which race do we hope she attends a birthday party of!?

Your original OP reveals you are already thinking about whether your offspring will mate with a certain nationality, or not; do you even have children? Do you really think those are 'intertesting' thoughts to entertain. If so, you are 'entitled' but you can't say choosing mates based on race is not racism, it IS.

okay edit, because I am guessing your reply,,, hmm' something like ''' when the time comes your children will be free to choose their mates, regardless of race.. all I the Poll is asking is what race you would, then, be happier with''' please, please don't make that Reply,, it would be too inexplicable and still racist

No you are just trying to turn this thread into something it is not.

Quite simply if 'Western'.... is replaced by 'other than Thai'........it shows you are clearly for you own purposes seeing some thing that is not there.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh Oh, be careful what you ask for. you are forgetting the cost of the wedding and dowry the fathers' of brides in the West have to pay, $$ hmm or wait a minute..., is that largely regarded as an old fashioned, extinct, sexist tradition, like sod sin should be? [buying wives in the 21rst century!? sheesh]

Agreed. That's why I was so surprised at the sin sod comments. I didn't pay it myself and I most definitely won't be p****** out my daughter for money!

How can I explain? hmm where is the option to vote for a person of African descent, or to vote for a Jew, or Arab, or an Aboriginal?

My daughter is in KG with farangs, blacks, asians, aboriginals.

Yes, as is mine.. Anyway, it's a poll; polls by their nature just are more limited than every nuance in free discussion, but I'm happy we have the opportunity to do so here. Heck if it were me I'd include the option for "Anyone is fine with me as long as they're not ThaiVisa members".

We don't think, which race do we hope she attends a birthday party of!?

Your original OP reveals you are already thinking about whether your offspring will mate with a certain nationality, or not; do you even have children?

I do.. Well, one, and one on the way.

okay edit, because I am guessing your reply,,, hmm' something like ''' when the time comes your children will be free to choose their mates, regardless of race.. all I the Poll is asking is what race you would, then, be happier with''' please, please don't make that Reply,, it would be too inexplicable and still racist

Ok, so let me surprise you with my actual reply. : To be completely honest I got the idea for the poll not because of this exact "dilemma" but more to gauge the membership's opinion of their hosts in general. You can't get any sensible result by asking 'Do you like Thais [yes] [no] [only the females under 30].' Turn it into this one and people do weigh in with their gut opinions on their hosts.. (Except for you and some others of course, to your credit. )

[eggomaniac]

hmmm... as 9 of 10 of the Replies pointed out, in this day and age, race should not be a factor.

Look Who's Coming to Dinner was a movie for the times, decades ago!

Participation in the Poll cannot be completed without making a decision based on race, so you will have a difficult time explaining how you 'do not see it as racism' !?

I think when a moderator gets around to viewing this Topic, they will cross reference it to the Rules.

I hope my daughter ends up with a very nice citizen of the planet Earth!

Sorry, but I think it's a stretch to call "Westerner" a race. As if all Westerners are of a single race? A Westerner of African or Asian ancestry is still a Westerner. Quite obviously it's the cultural background that's relevant here, but let me hasten to confirm this since you raised the issue. Going by your logic, debating every single cultural feature that's unique to Thailand would be racism when debated vis a vis a Western/"Farang" background / culture? Actually I struggle to even call 'Thai' a race; it's a nationality. (And no, I don't want to go there in this topic beyond pointing out that there are Thais from various backgrounds such as Chinese, Khmer, Lao, Malay, and various hilltribes.)

And then, you're from Canada, possibly THE most ethnically diverse country in the world. I would not hesitate for a second to include every single Canadian as Western. I hope that goes some way to put the challenge to bed. Either way the "It doesn't matter to me" option seems the appropriate one for people who don't want to make a cultural-background-based decision.

( I apologize if the tone of this post is overly combative, but getting accused of racism is upsetting to me. )

I don't think you are ill intentioned, but READ 9 of ten Replies who commented that race should have nothing to do with! The topic is only and all about race, I don't think you thought through it.

How can I explain? hmm where is the option to vote for a person of African descent, or to vote for a Jew, or Arab, or an Aboriginal?

My daughter is in KG with farangs, blacks, asians, aboriginals. We don't think, which race do we hope she attends a birthday party of!?

Your original OP reveals you are already thinking about whether your offspring will mate with a certain nationality, or not; do you even have children? Do you really think those are 'intertesting' thoughts to entertain. If so, you are 'entitled' but you can't say choosing mates based on race is not racism, it IS.

okay edit, because I am guessing your reply,,, hmm' something like ''' when the time comes your children will be free to choose their mates, regardless of race.. all I the Poll is asking is what race you would, then, be happier with''' please, please don't make that Reply,, it would be too inexplicable and still racist

No you are just trying to turn this thread into something it is not.

Quite simply if 'Western'.... is replaced by 'other than Thai'........it shows you are clearly for you own purposes seeing some thing that is not there.

like I said READ the first 9 responses. as they point out race. nationality, whatever you are wanting to call it, [Thai/non Thai?] should not have anything to with. if it's not racism, to be 'considering' whether your kids should marry a Thai or a Non thai, it is, at the very least, very, very silly... you didn't seem to get the message of the other posters, and me, always trying to be helpful, hoped to get it through to you...

Why would you want to be thinking such nonsense is one thing, but imagining others harbour these issues is another thing.

oh BTW, maybe this will make it clear to you, though I somehow, now, doubt it.

Why don't you answer your own question you posted in the forum, and explain all your great reasons for your conclusions?

Maybe if you began to write down why you hope or don't hope, your son or daugther, if you have any, marry a Thai or a non Thai, it will materialize in front of yours how 'unporoductive' such thinking is!

By the time your children reach adulthood, you have no idea what country they might work in, go to school, or do a mission in. They might end up somewhere with very few Thais around, even.

Here's another way to TRY to get through to you. Let's say AFTER your carefully conducted Poll of all the people, wondering just like you, what is 'better' for their kids to marry, that you finally get it figured out, which IS, after all careful research, the BEST option [hope your getting the sarcasm] would you then endeavor to direct your children in that BEST direction. Now, think about this, and your answer is probably, of course not, hopefully, then you can finally understand the absolute meaningless of the original poll, right?

Please 'educate' us on who you think is a better mate a Thai or non Thai???

That would clear the cobwebs, I'm sure.

[473geo]

As you appear to have read and studied all the posts - perhaps you should re-read post#4

[kelboy]

HI

i have 2 girls,1 at 15 and the other 6.

The 1 at 6 is all mine but the 1 at 15 i took on as mine

10 years ago and i treat them both the same.

Last year i got offered 100000 and 1 bart of gold.

I was outraged at this(i know it goes on all over Thailand at this age)

so i said no way and told her that when she finish school and uni

and get a good job,she can do or marry who she wants.

kda

[richard_smith237]

Good thread... good question.. and a PC landmine....

I guess money helps.. But the character of 'the' individual helps more (or less)....

I don't imagine I was my Father In Law's first choice for his daughter, but in his case I doubt there would be any first choice.

He (FIL), was a rather hard nut to crack, and with time (a couple of years) he surprised everyone and now seems proud of his Son in Law and Daughter.

FIL has had to take some flak for his daughter marrying a westerner so I am very respectful and understanding of his situation (*1), but, the reality is, IF I as a father can not accept my daughters choice, then I stand to lose her - that I will not chance (But I'm only just Married so we have another 25 or so years or so to worry about that one)

>>> I don't want a daughter !!!!!

(*1) - The only westerners my FIL has ever seen in Thailand is while being driven down Sukhumvit rd, my then GF (now my wife) told me his question at the time was "why do westerners have to parade the ugliest girls up and down the busiest streets?" !!!!! - Try and break down that barrier !

[cdnvic]

I would hope that we raised her well enough to not choose a partner based on their race.

[tigerfish]

western partner/husband all the way.

for the simple reason that i think that thailand and the men especially in this country, have very blinkered views and attitudes when it comes to dating/marriage. they are too stuck in the dark ages for my liking, with no regards to opening up to a liberal way of thinking when it comes to equal standing in a relationship.

but hey, at the end of the day its not my choice. its up to my daughter, its her decision and i have to respect that.

all i can do is give her my love and support, and make it be known to my daughters boyfriend/future son in-law that any hurt or harm he may infflict on her. as a warning will be repaid in full by myself, towards him with no problem on my account.

i would like to add a couple more things if i may. i hope that before my daughter comes to the stage in her life where she is contemplating mariage. that she has got herself a good education under her belt, and that she has gone out and seen the world for herself, with all it has to offer.

on the question of sin-sot, if it were to be a thai weding ceremony. i would not ask or expect for a payment or gifts to be presented my way or to my wife. i do not beleive in the concept of paying for a wife, thai culture or not. it goes against my way of thought and values.

all i ask is that the person that takes on the responsabilty of taking care of my daughter for the rest of her life, loves and cherishes her for who she is.

Edited March 6, 2010 by tigerfish

[noise]

I want my children to be happy if they marry...........the poll does not appear to have box for that one?

And no boxes for what I would consider the most important criteria: well educated with good prospects for a successful future.

That criteria would apply to either a male or female potential spouse.

[carmine]

I want my children to be happy if they marry...........the poll does not appear to have box for that one?

My thoughts too.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I would hope that we raised her well enough to not choose a partner based on their race.

As stated earlier, I kept out a PC/moral/Feel-Good option on purpose. Plus, keep in mind there are other considerations as well: If he/she'd marry a Thai person or half Thai person then they're more likely to stick around in Thailand, as opposed to moving half way around the world. And, with a mixed partner, grand children would end up with at least three nationalities. Come on, let go, give it some honest thought..

So far I'm the only one voting for a preference for a mixed Thai/Western partner, I would have expected some more votes there. Naturally it goes without saying that it's her choice and her choice only. But again, as soon as you add a PC/Moral poll option specifically highlighting modern/Western staples of True Love and Free Choice then 90% will pick that choice, snowing under a gut feel result that most fathers must feel somewhere, no matter how well they hide it..

Edited March 7, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cdnvic]

You seem to equate anyone having a healthy emotional outlook as being PC. It speaks volumes that you were unwilling to include an option in the poll that might disagree with or disprove your preconceived prejudices. If you were more confident in your outlook you wouldn't be afraid to let others express theirs.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh dear.. shouldn't have said PC.. I do know and should know that many people have a knee-jerk reaction to the mere word, even though compounded with "/moral/feel-good" to explain what is meant.

Either way, I completely understand your point of view and my feelings towards this topic are exactly the same the same as yours. Your issue is with the people who voted they prefer a particular cultural background when there is clearly an option available to not give a preference for any background. Then follow up that poll-choice with a regular post to add some balance and that should be that;

I don't really understand why you need to take such an aggressive tone when from my posts above it should already be clear that we feel the same about this topic? Do my choice of poll options merit such vitriol? Can you please take a deep breath, read back those options and my posts so far?

Edited March 7, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[cdnvic]

Nothing aggressive at all, I was simply addressing points you yourself brought out, that you intentionally left out a point of view that you disagree with and several other members have pointed it out as well. You seem to suggest that it cannot be honest thought when plenty of people clearly think otherwise. If that's too aggressive for you I'll apologize and leave it at that.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

EDIT: Sorry, just saw you posted at the same time. will read first.

EDIT: Ok, I just read your post above.

To clarify: ALL poll options are stated neutrally; I could have added a qualification to all of them, trying to hit some kind of rationale for each option, but decided to keep the 'no preference' option neutral as well. Let me take responsibility for not making myself clearer earlier on when I said I didn't "add a PC/moral/feel-good option". This was incorrect; the poll choice WAS included, but what meant to say (but didn't) was that I omitted the rationale, in line with the other options, and kept all of them neutral.

So I left it at "It doesn't matter to me", instead of "It doesn't matter to me because true love and my daughter's choice is all that matters". Is the omission of that rationale the thing that irks you to the point of calling me 'prejudiced', 'afraid' and 'unwilling to let people express their viewpoint', which 'speaks volumes'?

Sorry for the confusion; I didn't leave out whole options, but decided to not advertise one with added morality.

Edited March 7, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[gregchambers]

I suspect that most thai/farang daughters are well educated and well looked after enough to get to a stage where they will make their own decisions regardless of their parental influences...

My own sons, late teens (half Thai/English), live upcountry and are absolutely swamped by local girls and I feel no quilt at very much leaving them to their own devices - it would have been very cruel to take them to farangland to live (if they were daughters then it would have been cruel to leave them in Thailand).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I suspect that most thai/farang daughters are well educated and well looked after enough to get to a stage where they will make their own decisions regardless of their parental influences...

My own sons, late teens (half Thai/English), live upcountry and are absolutely swamped by local girls and I feel no quilt at very much leaving them to their own devices - it would have been very cruel to take them to farangland to live (if they were daughters then it would have been cruel to leave them in Thailand).

So it would be different for daughters? If they were swamped by local boys you may not leave them to their own devices and decisions regardless of their parental influences?

Note: I'm not intentionally being a smart-ass here (comes naturally), but these sort of differences that are felt by Western fathers in Thailand are exactly the area I wanted to explore with a poll.

[gregb]

Voted daughter to marry a Western man, and son to marry a Thai girl, but that is simply because that is what I think makes the most sense. Thai men as a rule are not considerate enough of their women, and Western women as a rule are not considerate enough of their men.

However, there are always exceptions to generalizations, and I would not discount someone simply because of race. Most importantly however, is that the prospective mate come from generally the same socioeconomic background. While there is a strong bias in Western culture that class/caste doesn't matter when choosing a mate, I believe that is a failing of Western culture. In Thai culture, people do tend to stay within their own economic class.

I believe Thais are smarter than Westerners in that regard. There is of course some room to negotiate here, but this is where my bias would lie. Outside of this, I would want to judge the situation on its specific merits.

Edited March 7, 2010 by gregb

[Ulysses G.]

I would prefer that my daughter marry another woman and any race or nationality is fine.

[hammered]

I would prefer my daughter marry whoever she wanted to

[ronz28]

I didn't vote because our two daughters have already married westerners. We have always lived in the US since they were born so westerners were the main option. We would have been ok with whoever they chose.

[eggomaniac]

I would hope that we raised her well enough to not choose a partner based on their race.

EGGsactly. The OP believes this poll is important and interesting. However, it is only interesting anybody could view the topic as important.

Why would anyone, in this day and age, even think like this, let alone expound to the world such nonsense?

[it IS a race based, (nationality based) topic of discussion and the only way to psrticipate is with some level of discrimination.]

Did anybody notice that Hillary Clinton claimed to break the glass ceiling for women in politics!? As an American she probably isn't very good at world history; --- Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Bhutto and about 4 dozen other elected women PM's did that! [including some from a handful from Muslim countries].

[Sakeopete]

My 4 y/o son has a cute luke krung girl in his class. He is going to marry her. My daughter is only 1.5 y/o she hasn't made up her mind yet but I hope she choses a luke krung man. The nice thing is they will fit in fine with each others families. BTW I'm not accepteing anything less than 20 million Baht Sin Sod for my daughter so start saving now.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I would hope that we raised her well enough to not choose a partner based on their race.

EGGsactly. The OP believes this poll is important and interesting. However, it is only interesting anybody could view the topic as important.

Why would anyone, in this day and age, even think like this, let alone expound to the world such nonsense?

[it IS a race based, (nationality based) topic of discussion and the only way to psrticipate is with some level of discrimination.]

Did anybody notice that Hillary Clinton claimed to break the glass ceiling for women in politics!? As an American she probably isn't very good at world history; --- Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Bhutto and about 4 dozen other elected women PM's did that! [including some from a handful from Muslim countries].

Out of curiosity, who said it's important (I wouldn't) ? And whether it's interesting depends largely on the replies and votes but even then it's a matter of personal taste. I do indeed find your reply interesting and I assume you do too as you posted it?

And erm.. the second part of your post, is that just there to steer the discussion off topic? (It's not working.)

Edited March 7, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

My 4 y/o son has a cute luke krung girl in his class. He is going to marry her. My daughter is only 1.5 y/o she hasn't made up her mind yet but I hope she choses a luke krung man. The nice thing is they will fit in fine with each others families. BTW I'm not accepteing anything less than 20 million Baht Sin Sod for my daughter so start saving now.

LOL. I don't think kids that age have a cultural preference, though my 4 year old does seem to hang out with other mixed kids a lot. Most likely it's a language thing though.

BTW, completely unrelated to this discussion and without me mentioning it my wife basically said out of the blue that she'd prefer a Western (or mixed) future spouse for our kids. I think it was largely based on an assumption of financial means and education though. Which brings me to another point; while my upbringing is very much to not interfere in any way with the partner choice of my kids, I have the distinct feeling that my wife will be engaging in some serious meddling when the time comes.. At least if her response to my mom in law's new partner is anything to go by. In that case too my position was quite obviously that it's her life and that she owes nobody an explanation on her path to happiness. The Mrs however.. wow.

Edited March 7, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[coolhandjoe]

I want my daughter to marry a westerner,not German or French, to get a big sinsot.

Want my lad to marry a westerner so I won't have to pay sinsot.

Seriously? That's the second sin sod comment I read.. Could be another interesting poll: how many people would welcome (or demand) a sin sod for their daughter..

Only if the prospective husband was Thai, ( It's traditional afterall)

On a more serious note, he would have to treat her better than i do which will be difficult.