Solution For Double Pricing?

[Abrak]

Whilst I can understand your anger at being, in your opinion, over-charged in England (or double-charged) isn't this thread about dual pricing? ie. there being two different prices for the same thing? One for Thais and another (higher price) for non-Thais? That's a different thing altogether isn't it?

Well it is a bit of a half full, half empty thing. At the end of the day there is a charge and if it is reasonable I am not too concerned if someone does even better. Especially with National Parks that belong to Thais and are paid for. If I am paying a fair price I am reasonably happy to subsidize Thais in a 'tiny' way so that they can afford it rather than getting bitter and twisted about it. I dont get particularly highly taxed here simply because the revenue department dont seem competent so I am happy to help in other ways. I suspect that some people are whinging when they earn 10x the average Thai so if he pays double it is still costing the Thai 5x as much. Its their country and even the permanent resident who is so indignant is only a guest - I am fairly sure if they heard his whining about double pricing they wouldnt have made him a PR in the first place.

If we were being grossly overcharged to complain would be fine but you are not so why not accept it and also consider that you are helping people that are probably less fortunate than you to appreciate whatever it is. Farangs are not actually suffering they are just irritated, indignated and jealous that Thais are getting a better deal. Anyway its their country, they can choose to do what they like. I am a permanent resident but I usually pay the extra charge - if you dont support national parks they soon wont exist.

[bifftastic]

Whilst I can understand your anger at being, in your opinion, over-charged in England (or double-charged) isn't this thread about dual pricing? ie. there being two different prices for the same thing? One for Thais and another (higher price) for non-Thais? That's a different thing altogether isn't it?

Well it is a bit of a half full, half empty thing. At the end of the day there is a charge and if it is reasonable I am not too concerned if someone does even better. Especially with National Parks that belong to Thais and are paid for. If I am paying a fair price I am reasonably happy to subsidize Thais in a 'tiny' way so that they can afford it rather than getting bitter and twisted about it. I dont get particularly highly taxed here simply because the revenue department dont seem competent so I am happy to help in other ways. I suspect that some people are whinging when they earn 10x the average Thai so if he pays double it is still costing the Thai 5x as much. Its their country and even the permanent resident who is so indignant is only a guest - I am fairly sure if they heard his whining about double pricing they wouldnt have made him a PR in the first place.

If we were being grossly overcharged to complain would be fine but you are not so why not accept it and also consider that you are helping people that are probably less fortunate than you to appreciate whatever it is. Farangs are not actually suffering they are just irritated, indignated and jealous that Thais are getting a better deal. Anyway its their country, they can choose to do what they like. I am a permanent resident but I usually pay the extra charge - if you dont support national parks they soon wont exist.

yes, but that still doesn't explain your reference to the expensive hotel you stayed at in the UK, what's that got to do with dual-pricing? Presumably it was the same price for everyone? Or did they charge you double what they charge everyone else?

[Abrak]

I come from a relatively small second world nation in Europe known as England.

Whatever you might think and despite its current economic & social problems, UK is still a good place to call home even when you live abroad. As just a small example of the benefits of being (among others) British - no tourist visa needed for Thailand and MANY other countries. Try that on a Nigerian passport.

Last time I was there I was at least double charged (GBP350) for a room the size of a shoebox at a hotel called the Metropolitan. Double charged in the sense it could hardly be worth half as much. Its major feature was the smallest bathroom I have ever been into. Still that is just overpricing I would guess to fleece the average tourist. When I arrived at the hotel they kindly valet parked my car but added GBP14 to my bill for a service that I have never had to pay for in Thailand - I would certainly regard this as double charging as you would have thought it came free with the shoebox. Having kindly parked my car I found the next morning an extra charge of GBP40 for the space. Again I have never been charged for a parking space in a hotel in Thailand. Again I regard this as double charging although admittedly there wasnt enough room in my shoebox to fit the car. So in my view that was GBP240 double charging in one night and I havent even got to their Japanese Canteen. Now I have been double charged in Thailand over the past 15 years but I doubt the whole amount adds up to GBP240.

You missed my point. I obviously chose to stay in a GBP350 room but I did rather expect that for that price I might get say a bath for instance. For half that price I would have got an infinitely nicer room in Thailand - so relative to Thailand I paid twice as much and then perhaps I am stupid to expect valet parking to come free or be given a parking space for my car. And whoopee National Parks are free in the UK. Personally I am happy to help contribute to a National Park in Thailand rather than pay GBP40 for a parking spot in a hotel. For GBP50 in Thailand you would get a decent room, in London you would be sharing toilets in Brixton. Valet parking and a car parking spot are free in Thailand consider that a bonus which you are happy to use to help others. So maybe appreciate the valet parking and the free parking space and see that as a bonus I dont get elsewhere, so giving back never really hurt anyone.

Lets be honest you are complaining, not because you were overcharged, but because other people are getting an even better deal than you. If you were charged Bt400 and the Thais Bt400 you would be happy. So just be a bit more positive and consider that you are helping more than others. Now you might think that I am stupid to pay GBP350 for a hotel room in London but I hope you realize having coughed up that much I was expecting a decent room. Also not allowing you to park your car in the hotel you are booked into for free is pretty gross behavior. Obviously I wont make the same mistake again. And if you go to somewhere that you are double charged and are indignant about it you have no obligation to use the facility. Lets face your choice to go to a place you are double charged reflects your stupid decision to go there in the first place - to quote you.

The prices you were charged reflect your own (stupid) choice to stay in an expensive hotel. What do you expect? There are many (relatively) cheap & adequate hotels in UK so why on earth do you have to choose one charging GBP350 a night? All I, and most people I know, ask of a hotel is that I get a good night's kip. I sleep no better in a GBP350 a night room than in one costing GBP50 a night. As for needing someone to park the car ..... how bloody lazy can you get? More money than sense, IMO. Or perhaps you like to boast to your mates that you can stay in "posh" hotels. Expensive hotels are a rip-off, wherever you might travel. Prices are the same whether British or foreign, which is not always the case in Thailand.

And No, I'm not a backpacker - although I see no reason not to travel in that style and did so in my younger days - but a retired Consulting Engineer who has stayed in a number of expensive hotels around the world (at someone else's expense ) in my time and been mightily unimpressed with them.

To me it seems pretty ridiculous to complain about Bt400 to enter a National Park when you would have been charged Bt4,000 back home. And think even if the Thai paid Bt400, the same as you, he would certainly have the right to complain about 10x charging in the UK. What a ridiculous thing to say the Thais dont pay much tax - the costs of maintaining their National Parks dont come out of thin air. And Thailand is trying to stop private operators benefiting from double charging while UK operators seem to enjoy taking the piss. Having charged me GBP14 for valet parking which took 3 minutes, the guy actually asked for a tip.

Entry to British National Parks is free to all, regardless of nationality, race or tax status.

Anyway I think we should all make a stand about this ridiculous behavior. I cant actually believe that any tourists go to the UK anymore but I think the UK should be boycotted until such behavior is declared illegal by the human rights commission. As for double charging in Thailand dont you think it is an incredibly trivial issue a bit like discussing which bar to go to save Bt2 on a bottle of Chang.

[Abrak]

yes, but that still doesn't explain your reference to the expensive hotel you stayed at in the UK, what's that got to do with dual-pricing? Presumably it was the same price for everyone? Or did they charge you double what they charge everyone else?

Well it should I am happy to pay a fair price for anything and dont get jealous if someone gets an even better deal. If I am ripped off GBP40 for a parking space in the hotel I am staying in, I find absolutely no consolation in the fact that everyone else is being ripped off the same as me.

You can say I was stupid not to check the parking rates before I went but as I didnt expect one I didnt. And if you feel so strongly about being double charged then why go there in the first place.

[Colonel_Mustard]

So maybe u could give a real example of dual pricing from the UK? Ahh, ok, I thought not.

I believe some UK universities charge international students higher fees.

[quiksilva]

Colonel.. I thought those rates also applied to British citizens who are not normally resident in the UK and were considered to be in the UK for the sole purpose of education.

Still the only solution is to get Thai citizenship, as this is not going away any time soon.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Colonel.. I thought those rates also applied to British citizens who are not normally resident in the UK and were considered to be in the UK for the sole purpose of education.

That may be true in some cases. Not sure to be honest as I have never looked into it that closely. Just noticed that they have different prices for international students.

[pepi2005]

just found the following on the Internet :D

Edited May 16, 2010 by pepi2005

[robblok]

Earlier i posted that i send an email about dual pricing.. and as expected i never got an email back and the dual pricing in bungsamran is still there.

[dominique355]

National parks are government - yes, right at the top of the pyramid I guess they are, but they are left alone as independant entities to get on with the job, and my guess is that the dual pricing national parks practise, would, if it were challenged in a court, be found just as illegal as any other dual pricing practise.

Dual pricing is totally logical for Government Parks. The cost of maintaining them is paid out of taxes paid by Thais and these Parks are owned by the Nation. Why should they have to double pay to go into an asset they already own. Or put another way why should they subsidize tourists. It is clearly fair in my view. Private enterprises are simply price discriminating to maximize profit. It is to their benefit but not in the general interest of the tourist industry so is essentially private profiteering at the publics expense.

No it's not logical that I, who live in Thailand (retirement visa), being Caucasian, married to a Thai wife with two children, have to pay ten times more admission to e.g. Kao Yai than a Thai citizen. I do pay a lot of taxes (millions of baht), mostly through VAT and excise taxes. Problem is, I have no Thai residence and no Thai driver license, so I have to pay ten times more. Not logical at all.

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race. Not on taxes or nationality or whatever. Fact is, it is racist!

(Makes me angry everytime)

[Berkshire]

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race.

This is absolutely not a true statement. Non-Thai's, including Japanese, Koreans, etc., all have to pay the non-Thai rate, same as any farang. I had a Thai-American friend who visited recently and even HE had to pay the non-Thai rate (didn't have a Thai ID). Why would you be writing such nonsense just to prove a point?

[doctorproc156]

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race.

This is absolutely not a true statement. Non-Thai's, including Japanese, Koreans, etc., all have to pay the non-Thai rate, same as any farang. I had a Thai-American friend who visited recently and even HE had to pay the non-Thai rate (didn't have a Thai ID). Why would you be writing such nonsense just to prove a point?

Wrong. It is a true statement. I am a Malaysian and I enjoyed the Thai prices even before I could speak Thai. However the only real solution to this problem is to learn Thai and just ask for the price in Thai, learning the numbers would also be a nice touch in case they don't believe you. However they still may not give the Thai price to Caucasian people, maybe it's just because I am Asian.

[Berkshire]

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race.

This is absolutely not a true statement. Non-Thai's, including Japanese, Koreans, etc., all have to pay the non-Thai rate, same as any farang. I had a Thai-American friend who visited recently and even HE had to pay the non-Thai rate (didn't have a Thai ID). Why would you be writing such nonsense just to prove a point?

Wrong. It is a true statement. I am a Malaysian and I enjoyed the Thai prices even before I could speak Thai. However the only real solution to this problem is to learn Thai and just ask for the price in Thai, learning the numbers would also be a nice touch in case they don't believe you. However they still may not give the Thai price to Caucasian people, maybe it's just because I am Asian.

True statement? Are you saying that Japanese, Koreans, etc., always pay the Thai price? Absolute rubbish and you know this. I would assume that you got the Thai price because they thought you were Thai, correct? Did you get the Thai price because you were Malaysian? Being Asian has nothing to do with it. There's a Thai price, and a non-Thai price. Has nothing to do with race. Get it?

[mccw]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

bank card with your name on it does the tick too

[Jingthing]

It's an Asian price, who are you kidding? You think Laos pay the farang price?

[IanForbes]

I always get a kick when this same old topic shows up again. It all has to do with value for your money. If something is worth a certain amount to you then accept it and pay. If it's not then don't buy. Quite simple really.

Of course there is always the strange Thai phenomenon where lack of customers means an automatic raising of prices to compensate for lack of income. But, which just leads to even less customers. The Thais don't seem to understand this concept.

It's not like we really HAVE to visit these places. There are alternatives.

[ExpatJ]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

the average Thai pays very little tax. At most, and on a generous day, an additional ฿20 added to a NP admission could be considered tax related. 10 times can't be justified. If taxation is a reasonable argument, why doesn't Singapore, Malaysis or Taiwan engage in such practice. Wait I know why, tourists are treated with respect.

The reason why singapore malaysia etc dont do it is because they are rich, developed countries (heck singapores average income is higher than most brits these days) they have the funds for their national parks.

[Forethat]

Last time I was hit with duel pricing

Uuuhhhh!?!? What the he** is that? They hand you a set of pistols and ask you to walk ten steps in one direction before you turn around and shoot, and eventually you'll get a discount if you manage to snipe the ignorant bastard who had the nerv to challenge!!?!

[elkangorito]

Berkshire...this question is for you.

Wrong. It is a true statement. I am a Malaysian and I enjoyed the Thai prices even before I could speak Thai. However the only real solution to this problem is to learn Thai and just ask for the price in Thai, learning the numbers would also be a nice touch in case they don't believe you. However they still may not give the Thai price to Caucasian people, maybe it's just because I am Asian.

True statement? Are you saying that Japanese, Koreans, etc., always pay the Thai price? Absolute rubbish and you know this. I would assume that you got the Thai price because they thought you were Thai, correct? Did you get the Thai price because you were Malaysian? Being Asian has nothing to do with it. There's a Thai price, and a non-Thai price. Has nothing to do with race. Get it?

Situation:

You, a white skinned foreigner, are with a group of people consisting of the following;

1] 2 or 3 Asians (not Thai).

2] 2 or 3 Thais.

You are all queued to enter a 'tourist establishment' e.g. a zoo or national park etc.

One of the Thai people does the talking at the ticket counter (asks for 6 'adult' tickets).

The person operating the ticket counter sees you (the white skinned foreigner) in the group & indicates that 'you' will have to pay 'the other' price. Upon being notified of this, you produce a work permit & thence are only required to pay the 'normal' price.

What's missing from this story?

Edited May 17, 2010 by elkangorito

[Livinginexile]

What about Siam Paragon's Aquarium?

Private enterprise and blantant dual pricing (Thai prices are written in Thai script) Tourist prices are nearly tripple!

This one truely makes me angry

[Misplaced]

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race.

This is absolutely not a true statement. Non-Thai's, including Japanese, Koreans, etc., all have to pay the non-Thai rate, same as any farang. I had a Thai-American friend who visited recently and even HE had to pay the non-Thai rate (didn't have a Thai ID). Why would you be writing such nonsense just to prove a point?

Wrong. It is a true statement. I am a Malaysian and I enjoyed the Thai prices even before I could speak Thai. However the only real solution to this problem is to learn Thai and just ask for the price in Thai, learning the numbers would also be a nice touch in case they don't believe you. However they still may not give the Thai price to Caucasian people, maybe it's just because I am Asian.

True statement? Are you saying that Japanese, Koreans, etc., always pay the Thai price? Absolute rubbish and you know this. I would assume that you got the Thai price because they thought you were Thai, correct? Did you get the Thai price because you were Malaysian? Being Asian has nothing to do with it. There's a Thai price, and a non-Thai price. Has nothing to do with race. Get it?

100% in agreement with Berkshire! I'm an example of a Thai-American who ALWAYS gets charged NON-THAI rate because I do not have a Thai ID. Although I look Thai, speak Thai, have a home in Thailand...etc, I still get charged double at most locations. So, it's NOT just foreigners who has to pay extra. Anyone who say otherwise is full of bullshito.

1 place I do hate is the "AMBASSADOR HOTEL"...... RUDE RUDE RUDE <deleted>. They not only charged dual tier pricing but also look down on fellow Thais. Arrogant Dickheads with old arse hotel

Edited May 17, 2010 by Misplaced

[pepi2005]

What I'm curious about: what is really the requirement to get a 'Thai price'?

Recently I've been to a temple site and was charged the 'foreigner price' even though I

produced a work permit AND a driver's license.

Is this regulation somewhere written in the laws ('not > 50% Thai blood = foreigner price')

or completely up to the 'friendly' woman or man who sits in the ticket booth?

Is it based on residency, paying taxes, skin or hair color? Looking Thai or being able to do a wai?

I just wonder under which circumstances I could INSIST on getting the Thai price,

though my guts somehow tell me I can't

[doctorproc156]

Any Japanese, Korean, Malaysian etc passing though will have to pay the admission fee of a Thai, because the whole pricing system is based on race.

This is absolutely not a true statement. Non-Thai's, including Japanese, Koreans, etc., all have to pay the non-Thai rate, same as any farang. I had a Thai-American friend who visited recently and even HE had to pay the non-Thai rate (didn't have a Thai ID). Why would you be writing such nonsense just to prove a point?

Wrong. It is a true statement. I am a Malaysian and I enjoyed the Thai prices even before I could speak Thai. However the only real solution to this problem is to learn Thai and just ask for the price in Thai, learning the numbers would also be a nice touch in case they don't believe you. However they still may not give the Thai price to Caucasian people, maybe it's just because I am Asian.

True statement? Are you saying that Japanese, Koreans, etc., always pay the Thai price? Absolute rubbish and you know this. I would assume that you got the Thai price because they thought you were Thai, correct? Did you get the Thai price because you were Malaysian? Being Asian has nothing to do with it. There's a Thai price, and a non-Thai price. Has nothing to do with race. Get it?

I am of Indian descent and not Chinese or Malay whom may have been mistaken for a Thai. Although yes, I do retract my initial statement, speaking Thai was probably the only reason i do enjoy cheaper prices.

[Tokay]

My friend has a business in Pattaya and jacks up the price so high for Thias in order to keep them out. Falangs pay normal price, but says the Thais only come in and cause problems so he doubles and triples the price for them.

[Tokay]

What I'm curious about: what is really the requirement to get a 'Thai price'?

I just wonder under which circumstances I could INSIST on getting the Thai price,

though my guts somehow tell me I can't

Get a Thai citizenship? You'd still lose the war but you would win a few more battles if you had a Thai ID card / Passport.

Or, you could always have a fake Thai ID card made for moments where you want to insist on giving you Thai price.

It's all just a game, play it. The only problem is, they are the only ones who know the rules and can change them at any time without warning.

[andyww]

My friend has a business in Pattaya and jacks up the price so high for Thias in order to keep them out. Falangs pay normal price, but says the Thais only come in and cause problems so he doubles and triples the price for them.

Presumably a Go-Go.

This is normal practice in this type of establishment and I am always amazed the Thais tolerate it.

[Tomtomtom69]

I agree with Dominic535. One time, a few years ago I went as a tourist with my Vietnamese friend to a national park in Lampang (Chae Sorn), and he was sleeping in the car and guess what? He was charged the Thai price and I, the Thai speaking westerner was charged the foreigner price. BTW my Vietnamese friend can't speak any Thai at all and he was just visiting Thailand for 5 days!

The problem with dual pricing at national parks is the way in which it is enforced. Fair enough that I got a Thai driver's license when i started working here in 2008 and used that to gain the Thai price, but in one instance in Chaiyaphum it didn't work. The guy at the office insisted on seeing proof of Thai citizenship, or at least permanent residency or something close to it; neither a business visa, work permit or driver's license was acceptable. What is (or can be interpreted as such) to be racist, is that the Thais or anyone who "looks Thai" is never asked for proof of citizenship, except in exceptional cases. If everyone was at least asked to verify proof of citizenship (by showing a national ID card), then it wouldn't be nearly as racist as it currently appears to be. On the other hand, simply looking Thai isn't enough to get into the Grand Palace for free, but in the case of most national parks, the assumption is that Vietnamese, Laotians, Chinese etc. simply don't visit these "out of the way" national parks such as Chae Sorn in Lampang. Basically if you look like a local, you must be a local in these places; apparently farangs are the only types of foreigners that visit national parks in upcountry Thailand.

The whole double pricing at national parks, which are so beautiful and worth visiting, have unfortunately put me off from future visits (of course, this is my own rational choice, please let me do it!) In China for example, they don't practice such nonsense. Every tourist attraction I've been to charges everyone the same (and even gives students and elderly citizens discounts!! Try finding anywhere in Thailand where senior citizens, especially foreigners are given discounts at tourist attractions!), but apart from Beijing or Shanghai, foreigners generally don't visit out of the way places in China (why the hell not, or is it just that the 1.3 billion people in China seem to follow you everywhere so you're outnumbered?) and you will usually be the only foreigner for miles around (it seems) so therefore they have no economic incentive to try and make a few extra bucks from the only foreigner that'll visit some botanical garden in Mengla or Jinghong or wherever in weeks.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Tomtomtom69

[PingManDan]

LOL the farang will always have a dual pricing problem, man if they tried that where I come from, there would be many fights break out, and many concessionaires slapped down to proper size , but like the travel ad states, "Amazing Thailand"

[SomTumTiger]

Oh good, a duel pricing thread. We haven't had one of those in, what? Three hours?

[robblok]

Oh good, a duel pricing thread. We haven't had one of those in, what? Three hours?

True there are many of those but it is something real annoying of course dual pricing. For national parks i can accept it because most foreigners don't pay any taxes. However if it happens by private enterprises its totally inexcusable.

Ow some people state that because most Thai's don't pay taxes the national parks should be free for foreigners too. I don't agree with that because its normal for a government to give certain things for free for its own people. Just look in the west where people who don't work get benefits. They have never paid for it but still get it.