Thai Government Will Not Impose Curfew In Bangkok : Suthep

[brd199]

And were these MPs chosen by the Thai people in a democratic election?

YES they were.

I was in Bangkok at the time I remember the tanks rolling in as the army took over the Government then the Yellow shirts invaded the airport and closed it down and the army refused to intervene. Then I remember seeing people with Yellow shirts on shooting at people in the streets of Bangkok.I dont remember seeing any elections for Abhisit or his Government. Democratic elections!!!!My arr******e!

Sorry your memory doesn't know about the election that this guy voted in:

Samak Sundaravej, the People Power Party leader, shows his ballot at polling station on December 23, 2007, in Bangkok, Thailand.

[anotherpeter]

And were these MPs chosen by the Thai people in a democratic election?

YES they were.

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

[landofthefree]

And were these MPs chosen by the Thai people in a democratic election?

YES they were.

I was in Bangkok at the time I remember the tanks rolling in as the army took over the Government then the Yellow shirts invaded the airport and closed it down and the army refused to intervene. Then I remember seeing people with Yellow shirts on shooting at people in the streets of Bangkok.I dont remember seeing any elections for Abhisit or his Government. Democratic elections!!!!My arr******e!

Sorry your memory doesn't know about the election that this guy voted in:

Samak Sundaravej, the People Power Party leader, shows his ballot at polling station on December 23, 2007, in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

[brd199]

YES they were.

I was in Bangkok at the time I remember the tanks rolling in as the army took over the Government then the Yellow shirts invaded the airport and closed it down and the army refused to intervene. Then I remember seeing people with Yellow shirts on shooting at people in the streets of Bangkok.I dont remember seeing any elections for Abhisit or his Government. Democratic elections!!!!My arr******e!

Sorry your memory doesn't know about the election that this guy voted in:

Samak Sundaravej, the People Power Party leader, shows his ballot at polling station on December 23, 2007, in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

oh ok, you're another of these guys that don't understand the parliamentary system.

There certainly do seem to be many on this forum that don't, but now I can at least understand your misunderstanding.

Here in Thailand, the Prime Minister isn't directly elected.

[anotherpeter]

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

In an election (in Thailand) the people vote for their MPs. In the 2007 election, Abhisit got voted in as an MP.

Following an election, the MPs form a government. This usually goes along party lines. Sometimes, when one party doesn't have a majority, coalitions are used to form a government. Following the 2007 election, the PPP formed a government with a coalition of smaller parties. The elected Democrat MPs were in opposition.

Following the PPP being disbanded because of electoral fraud, and the ex-PPP MPs moving to various smaller parties, the Democrats (being the party with the second most elected MPs) formed a coalition government with some of these smaller parties.

That sound reasonably legitimate to me.

Sorry for being off topic, but some posts need to be corrected with some facts.

Edited March 11, 2010 by anotherpeter

[shawndoc]

oh ok, you're another of these guys that don't understand the parliamentary system.

There certainly do seem to be many on this forum that don't, but now I can at least understand your misunderstanding.

You'll notice most the people posting idiotic things about lack of election/democracy/etc have low post counts. My guess is Thai Visa's got itself a few trolls posting under multiple user names. Probably more than a few have been banned, just to use TOR or some other proxy to disguise their IP.

[mrtoad]

I have been living and working here for the last 6 years. My current boss warned me about the dangers of retiring early which include becoming paranoid, being unable to remember facts and developing unhealth conspiracy theories. Reading your comments I am concerned that you and many other ex pats on this forum may be displaying these symptoms. Which of the events in my original posting did I not see? Did I miss the election for Abhisit?

Nice try, but I'd very much doubt that retiring early would lead to some form of DSM IV Mental disorder - and sadly for me I am still a few years from being able to collect a pension. There is also a big difference between memory loss, selective memory loss and paranoia.

I am hoping that somebody is bring to bring out a comic strip on electoral process' so those that are unable to comprehend in the written form may take more joy in looking at the pictures, but as they haven't yet this is how it works.

The party with the biggest number of seats forms the government. If there is not a majority then a government may form a coalition. I believe that Samak did this with the PPP after the election at the end of 2008. The thing with coalitions is, that they often break. Samak had to stand down, as he broke rules - followed by a another Thaksin proxy PM Ole Somchai. That coalition collapsed after the PPP were disolved and Somchai standing down. Newin and his faction jumped ship and joined the democrats to form a coalition. That's how it works, might not be perfect - but they are elected whether you like it or not.

Last time I noticed, Gordon Brown was the PM of the UK, I can't remember anyone voting for him either. Let's be honest, the make up of the present government as a coalition could easily be replicated in the UK over the coming year.

[Guest]

There will be no curfew... this from the same folks who announced a few days ago that the ISA would not be invoked for this weekend.

[tigermonkey]

And were these MPs chosen by the Thai people in a democratic election?

YES they were.

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

Nothing wrong in my statement -- totally accurate and unbiased --I speak about the 2007 election under the control of the CNS -- you should try to get your facts right -- it was won by the PPP ( not a majority) and Samak formed a coalition government, despite the suppression by the CNS.

Why do you bring " the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup " into this ?

We are talking only about the last election -- not events leading up to it -- or events afterwards ( red cards, libel conviction and cooking shows )

The 2007 election was not in any way democratic by international standards.

[anotherpeter]

The 2007 election was not in any way democratic by international standards.

OK. I'll go with that. Have there EVER been any democratic (by international standards) elections in Thailand?

I'll change part of my statement to "... the coup, the CNS run 2007 election, the PPP coalition government ...".

In the scheme of things, Thaksin/reds supporters weren't complaining about the 2007 election being undemocratic while the PPP were in government, so therefore they shouldn't be saying it is undemocratic while the Democrats are in government.

[gotlost]

No curfew in Bangkok, the bars and punters should be over the moon.

[tigermonkey]

The 2007 election was not in any way democratic by international standards.

OK. I'll go with that. Have there EVER been any democratic (by international standards) elections in Thailand?

I'll change part of my statement to "... the coup, the CNS run 2007 election, the PPP coalition government ...".

In the scheme of things, Thaksin/reds supporters weren't complaining about the 2007 election being undemocratic while the PPP were in government, so therefore they shouldn't be saying it is undemocratic while the Democrats are in government.

NO --- never been a truly democratic ( by international standards) election in Thailand -- but 2001 was closest, despite rampant vote buying.

I remember many comments after the 2007 elections by Thai voters -- but noone wanted to complain about (or to ) the CNS -- and they all said mai pen rai -- we have the PPP.

Thai politics continue to slowly evolve -- ever since the first coup and first legislature in 1932

[animatic]

Suthep is trying to tell protesters what vehicles they can and cannot drive to the rally. I understand that originally they blocked the use of buses, but unwittingly created a bigger problem.

But never mind. Mr. Suthep is not a UDD organizer deploying Thai citizens to confront this minority, elitist Government. They will do what will be necessary.

Just call an internationally supervised election and stop all this nonsense!

"Minority"?? They formed government by getting together a coalition of the MAJORITY of MPs.

Does any government in the world call an election just because of a few protestors?

And were these MPs chosen by the Thai people in a democratic election?

Yes precisely so, finally someone how states a fact,

even if it is as if a question.

[khunjamespittman]

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

In an election (in Thailand) the people vote for their MPs. In the 2007 election, Abhisit got voted in as an MP.

Following an election, the MPs form a government. This usually goes along party lines. Sometimes, when one party doesn't have a majority, coalitions are used to form a government. Following the 2007 election, the PPP formed a government with a coalition of smaller parties. The elected Democrat MPs were in opposition.

Following the PPP being disbanded because of electoral fraud, and the ex-PPP MPs moving to various smaller parties, the Democrats (being the party with the second most elected MPs) formed a coalition government with some of these smaller parties.

That sound reasonably legitimate to me.

Sorry for being off topic, but some posts need to be corrected with some facts.

Maybe you might explain the parlimentary mechanism when a party is disbanded after having been duly elected and formed a legitimate government.

The process would follow the same rules as a no confidence vote for a sitting government. This means an election should have been held. It does not go to the second place team.

[OJAS]

I am hoping that somebody is bring to bring out a comic strip on electoral process' so those that are unable to comprehend in the written form may take more joy in looking at the pictures, but as they haven't yet this is how it works.

The party with the biggest number of seats forms the government. If there is not a majority then a government may form a coalition. I believe that Samak did this with the PPP after the election at the end of 2008. The thing with coalitions is, that they often break. Samak had to stand down, as he broke rules - followed by a another Thaksin proxy PM Ole Somchai. That coalition collapsed after the PPP were disolved and Somchai standing down. Newin and his faction jumped ship and joined the democrats to form a coalition. That's how it works, might not be perfect - but they are elected whether you like it or not.

Last time I noticed, Gordon Brown was the PM of the UK, I can't remember anyone voting for him either. Let's be honest, the make up of the present government as a coalition could easily be replicated in the UK over the coming year.

Absolutely. Also worth making the point that, while coalition governments might be novelties in Thailand and the UK, they have pretty much been the norm in mainland Europe for years.

[WAERTH]

It does in the Netherlands .... if the biggest party cannot make a new coalition, the 2nd, 3rd etc are asked to try to form one.

It happened just now after PM Balkenende's cabinet fell. But everyone opted not to form a new cabinet but to have elections instead. But they were asked!

So it is totally legit as far as I am concerned.

[mazeltov]

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

he is spot on. that is what you can say about this "democratic election".

[animatic]

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

In an election (in Thailand) the people vote for their MPs. In the 2007 election, Abhisit got voted in as an MP.

Following an election, the MPs form a government. This usually goes along party lines. Sometimes, when one party doesn't have a majority, coalitions are used to form a government. Following the 2007 election, the PPP formed a government with a coalition of smaller parties. The elected Democrat MPs were in opposition.

Following the PPP being disbanded because of electoral fraud, and the ex-PPP MPs moving to various smaller parties, the Democrats (being the party with the second most elected MPs) formed a coalition government with some of these smaller parties.

That sound reasonably legitimate to me.

Sorry for being off topic, but some posts need to be corrected with some facts.

Maybe you might explain the parlimentary mechanism when a party is disbanded after having been duly elected and formed a legitimate government.

The process would follow the same rules as a no confidence vote for a sitting government. This means an election should have been held. It does not go to the second place team.

No, because it was not a 'no confidence vote'.

There was no mechanism for this unexpected event,

so nothing was forcing it to follow the rules for a no confidence vote.

The basis party was erased, but the non-leadership MPs still held their positions,

and were devolved into another party or parties.

Since there was no legislative ruling or law mandating that this transition

actually 'must progress like a failed no confidence vote',

then it need NOT progress like that.

Effectively the government did not lose a no confidence vote,

but their support structure simply ceased to exist.

And those in the government who were dually PPP leadership

ceased to be MPs and thus able to form a government.

[Old Man River]

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

he is spot on. that is what you can say about this "democratic election".

And what is so democratic about marching on the capital and trying to close it down? This is not about democracy. It has nothing to do with democracy. Arguing about democracy now is ridiculous.

[krakatoa]

If things turn nasty and they do not impose a curfew they might have a lot of scrambled egg on their collective faces.

The last time one of these event went <deleted> faced there was blood floowing down the storm drains in Bangkok.

[brianb1944]

so far there's only a mob of 50000 COPAS, fighting what? :D

Same as any other civil disturbance around the world, Everyone recognises peacekeepers, but peace keepers dont know who they may be fighting.

[animatic]

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

he is spot on. that is what you can say about this "democratic election".

A suppressed PPP is obviously is not what happened.

But why quibble with reality, it gets in the way of a political rant for your team.

[ozzieovaseas]

If things turn nasty and they do not impose a curfew they might have a lot of scrambled egg on their collective faces.

The last time one of these event went <deleted> faced there was blood floowing down the storm drains in Bangkok.

I thinks someone's been watching a little to much CNN

Are you sure that was'nt red dye coming from a t-shirt factory waste pipe

[animatic]

I was in Bangkok at the time I remember the tanks rolling in as the army took over the Government then the Yellow shirts invaded the airport and closed it down and the army refused to intervene. Then I remember seeing people with Yellow shirts on shooting at people in the streets of Bangkok.I dont remember seeing any elections for Abhisit or his Government. Democratic elections!!!!My arr******e!

Sorry your memory doesn't know about the election that this guy voted in:

Samak Sundaravej, the People Power Party leader, shows his ballot at polling station on December 23, 2007, in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yeah but he aint Abhisit is he?

Neither was this guy.

BANGKOK: -- Somchai Wongsawat, a deputy leader of the People Power Party, was elected Wednesday as the new prime minister.

A total of 298 MPs voted in support of his nomination while 163 Democrat MPs voted in support of Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's nomination.

Five MPs abstained.

-- The Nation 2008-09-17

Didn't stop him from being installed by Thaksin, in the same manner as Abhisit,

AFTER Thaksin decided he didn't want Samak back as PM.

But when his status as Deputy Leader of PPP during the jiggered election removed him from office,

with the other PPP leadership, the rank and file re-aligned themselves and factions left in disgust.

All elected MP's with freewill to make the best use of their voting power for their back home constituents.

Edited March 11, 2010 by animatic

[tigermonkey]

A democratic election under the control of the military -- with martial law still in place in parts of the country -- in which the military openly and blatantly suppressed the PPP -- but were immune to prosecution under their own constitution.

That statement is so wrong even your average red supporter would laugh at it. There are plenty of posts explaining the Thaksin elections, the Thaksin caretaker government, the coup, the 2007 election, the PPP coalition government and the Democrat coalition government. Go and have a look at those and then come back with a useful comment.

he is spot on. that is what you can say about this "democratic election".

A suppressed PPP is obviously is not what happened.

But why quibble with reality, it gets in the way of a political rant for your team.

Reality is that a suppressed PPP almost won a majority -- we have no idea what the result would have been without the suppression -- or perhaps you have greater insight about these things than most of us -- IMHO it might have been a majority PPP victory in the 2007 election -- no "rant"-- only logic !

[animatic]

If by 'suppression' you mean preventing PPP street thugs

from suppressing the other sides campaigning, then maybe there was some.

It has for sometime been glaringly clear who does the hardcore suppression

of the rights of the people to hear all sides up in Issan.

And that has been Team Thaksin, and it's street thug branches.

[tigermonkey]

If by 'suppression' you mean preventing PPP street thugs

from suppressing the other sides campaigning, then maybe there was some.

It has for sometime been glaringly clear who does the hardcore suppression

of the rights of the people to hear all sides up in Issan.

And that has been Team Thaksin, and it's street thug branches.

No -- I mean the suppression of the PPP political campaign in the 2007 election, which was ordered by the CNS -- and revealed at the time in their internal memo, which was subsequently leaked --check the facts !

Edited March 11, 2010 by tigermonkey

[way2muchcoffee]

I mean the suppression of the PPP political campaign in the 2007 election, which was ordered by the CNS -- and revealed at the time in their internal memo, which was subsequently leaked --check the facts !

You are making the claim. Post the facts.

Edited March 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[connel707]

Suthep is trying to tell protesters what vehicles they can and cannot drive to the rally. I understand that originally they blocked the use of buses, but unwittingly created a bigger problem.

But never mind. Mr. Suthep is not a UDD organizer deploying Thai citizens to confront this minority, elitist Government. They will do what will be necessary.

Just call an internationally supervised election and stop all this nonsense!

This is an elected government.... where do you come from..?

[landofthefree]

Suthep is trying to tell protesters what vehicles they can and cannot drive to the rally. I understand that originally they blocked the use of buses, but unwittingly created a bigger problem.

But never mind. Mr. Suthep is not a UDD organizer deploying Thai citizens to confront this minority, elitist Government. They will do what will be necessary.

Just call an internationally supervised election and stop all this nonsense!

This is an elected government.... where do you come from..?

Be very careful about what you say.....believe it or not some of the posters on Thai Visa believe that they have indepth knowledge of the political processes in Thailand and other countries around the world and swear blind that this is a fair democratically elected legitimate Government ,similar to that of the UK although personally I dont remember the Labour Government's supporters closing down Heathrow airport and going on the rampage through London shooting at people while holding up pictures of Queen Elizabeth 2. These posters also know that the red shirts are wrong to believe that they are the victims of injustice.