The 2010 Formula One Season

[b19bry]

I can't/won't argue your points they're way too far off base and uninformed but they're your views, as for the above quote taking a wild guess..................... You're British right with the usual blinders and inability to be neutral or objective?? BTW there was no conspiracy theories just the fact that he got second rate service over his team mate on several critical occasions from a crew I suspect was predominantly British..

Well that's fairly insulting considering since I've closely followed the sport for the last 40 odd years to be that uninformed, I can even remember GP's without pitstops heaven forbid !

I may be British but I certainly don't support drivers based on nationality, Button wasn't a particular favourite of mine and I thought Ruben's did a great job at the end of last season. I was happy though that Brawn were able to shake up the sport somewhat after years of Maclaren/ Ferrari dominance.

I also don't care for Hamilton and thought Mansell was just a whingeing git.

[WarpSpeed]

Seriously though the problem is less to to with re-fueling or not than with a too heavy dependence on aerodynamics. overtaking has been around for some time, is getting worse and is inversely related to the use of aerodynamics. This where the rules need changing to get the cars sliding more and allowing cars to follow more closely into the braking area.

Hmmmm..................That's strange, seems they had the "formula" for this virtually solved last year as close it has ever been in memory. Why change it and what change is most related to that difference you spose??

[Mosha]

F1fanatic, you might have to change your username this season.

Oh dear

I finally find somewhere which shows it with BBC coverage and what happens a mind numbingly boring race. If it wasn't for a bit of interest created by how long the new boys could keep running then I might have dozed off!

Really it is difficult to see what can be done in the short term to liven things up, short of arranging for a downpour at every race! But that is beyond the scope of the poison dwarf!

Will I continue to watch ... well after following GP's since the Clarke/Hill era I don't suppose i'll stop now that my all time favourite Lotus Team is back albeit in a different guise..

TBWG

It's the only time I get control of the remote.

[b19bry]

Mmmmm..................That's strange, seems they had the "formula" for this virtually solved last year as close it has ever been in memory. Why change it and what change is most related to that difference you spose??

In what way was it solved please explain ? The 2009 cars had higher grip levels than the 2008 cars ! Ok part of that was due to slicks but it was also through the use of double-diffusers which upset the cars behind.

As I said before, the aerodynamics need changing in such a way that allows cars to follow more closely especially into the braking area.

Edited March 15, 2010 by b19bry

[WarpSpeed]

I can't/won't argue your points they're way too far off base and uninformed but they're your views, as for the above quote taking a wild guess..................... You're British right with the usual blinders and inability to be neutral or objective?? BTW there was no conspiracy theories just the fact that he got second rate service over his team mate on several critical occasions from a crew I suspect was predominantly British..

Well that's fairly insulting considering since I've closely followed the sport for the last 40 odd years to be that uninformed, I can even remember GP's without pitstops heaven forbid !

Sorry you find it insulting but you're not the first "fan" that has thought that.... I know people who've been "fans" and even insiders for that long and longer doesn't make them particularly well informed...Being a real informed racing enthusiast means having to drop preferences and loyalties and look with an objective view point without one singular focus on any one participant or team anyone who doesn't do this is just a "fan" and has prejudices.

I may be British but I certainly don't support drivers based on nationality, Button wasn't a particular favourite of mine and I thought Ruben's did a great job at the end of last season. I was happy though that Brawn were able to shake up the sport somewhat after years of Maclaren/ Ferrari dominance.

I also don't care for Hamilton and thought Mansell was just a whingeing git.

Well I must say that this doesn't bode well of your informed fanaticism, because where talent is concerned as drivers go both Hamilton and Mansell are heads and shoulders above Button and that's now to be displayed at least where Hamilton is concerned..

Buttons decision to even leave his Championship team (Mercedes owned I might add which now places McLaren firmly in the "b" team position) and go head to head with Lewis on HIS turf, in HIS established team speaks volumes about how poorly his decision making skills are, where his loyalties lie, what kind of person he is what his primary focus is on and it isn't winning championships apparently.

[b19bry]

Being a real informed racing enthusiast means having to drop preferences and loyalties and look with an objective view point without one singular focus on any one participant or team anyone who doesn't do this is just a "fan" and has prejudices.

I'm trully sorry I don't live up to your standard of "being a real informed enthusiast" as from your lofty tower you so obviously are. Please also forgive me my appallingly British jingoistic prejudices even though I already said I wasn't a particular supporter of Button, Hamilton or Mansell !

[WarpSpeed]

Mmmmm..................That's strange, seems they had the "formula" for this virtually solved last year as close it has ever been in memory. Why change it and what change is most related to that difference you spose??

In what way was it solved please explain ? The 2009 cars had higher grip levels than the 2008 cars ! Ok part of that was due to slicks but it was also through the use of double-diffusers which upset the cars behind.

As I said before, the aerodynamics need changing in such a way that allows cars to follow more closely especially into the braking area.

Huh? You're vasilating with 2 completely different reasonings.. Redundant, I did explain but apparently you ignored it so review my earlier post for a short answer to your question and besides the fuel stops there are numerous other factors now removed or added that contributed to the competitiveness last year but the fuel stops affect a whole lot more then just stopping for fuel. Are you arguing that the racing last year was inferior to this year at this point even just one race in?? The first race last year was magic, this year was anticlimactic to say the least, one reason this years boredom is magnified..

They had a good combination/compromise of tires, aero and fuel stops to mix up the field and the strategy required..Anyway I have to go wax the car this conversation is as boring as the race was..

They could always put dozer blades on the front I guess ...

[WarpSpeed]

Being a real informed racing enthusiast means having to drop preferences and loyalties and look with an objective view point without one singular focus on any one participant or team anyone who doesn't do this is just a "fan" and has prejudices.

I'm trully sorry I don't live up to your standard of "being a real informed enthusiast" as from your lofty tower you so obviously are. Please also forgive me my appallingly British jingoistic prejudices even though I already said I wasn't a particular supporter of Button, Hamilton or Mansell !

Sorry I touched such a nerve I won't bully you any more I do have compassion...

Button wasn't a particular favourite of mine

I stand corrected on this quote I misread...

[b19bry]

Huh? You're vasilating with 2 completely different reasonings.. Redundant, I did explain but apparently you ignored it so review my earlier post for a short answer to your question

The cars aren't quick enough to overtake

Yeah sorry I missed that bit !

[F1fanatic]

Have to say that none of the drivers particularly impressed me yesterday.

It seems as if Ferrari and Red Bull have the fastest package, closely followed by McLaren. Red Bull were let down by reliability, but other than that the top runners stayed in the same order other than Alonso getting past Massa at the start.

Webber messed his race up in qualifying as (I assume) he should have been P2-P4, not P6. Once there, there was nothing he could do.

Similarly, Button should have been P5-P6, but qualified P8 - way below where he should have been. He was obviously faster than Schumi during the race (as was Webber), but neither could overtake. Have to blame the aerodynamics etc. for this, if they had a chance of overtaking they would at least have made an effort.

Incidentally, is anyone else having probs posting replies? I'm finding it impossible to go back to amend a post (whilst writing it), and when I try to respond to a previous post my reply starts before the quoted post and there's nothing I can do to move my reply forward!

[F1fanatic]

Also have to say that whilst I respect Alonso as a racing driver, I think he was lucky yesterday.

I recall last year when Hamilton made a pass on Massa at the beginning of a race and said later something along the lines of "I would never let anyone pass me that way". Was it the next race that Massa did the same to Hamilton?

I suspect the same will happen in the Alonso/Massa fight for supremacy - he won't let Alonso do it again!

[Donnyboy]

all i can say is Im glad i like rugby more

[b19bry]

Similarly, Button should have been P5-P6, but qualified P8 - way below where he should have been. He was obviously faster than Schumi during the race (as was Webber), but neither could overtake. Have to blame the aerodynamics etc. for this, i

Precisely, the aerodynamics create too much dirty air preventing cars from following closely enough into the braking area. This is the one point which some can't seem to get their head's around.

[WarpSpeed]

The cars aren't quick enough to overtake

Yeah sorry I missed that bit !

Pretty important that one..

Edited March 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Have to say that none of the drivers particularly impressed me yesterday.

It seems as if Ferrari and Red Bull have the fastest package, closely followed by McLaren. Closely?? More then a second off their pace and now possibly to be even slower since they were told to remove their cheater aero device for the next races..Red Bull were let down by reliability, but other than that the top runners stayed in the same order other than Alonso getting past Massa at the start.

Webber messed his race up in qualifying as (I assume) he should have been P2-P4, not P6. Once there, there was nothing he could do.

Similarly, Button should have been P5-P6, but qualified P8 - way below where he should have been. He was obviously faster than Schumi during the race (as was Webber), but neither could overtake. Have to blame the aerodynamics etc. for this, if they had a chance of overtaking they would at least have made an effort. What critical aero is different from last year where there was far more overtaking?? Please explain??

[b19bry]

The cars aren't quick enough to overtake

Yeah sorry I missed that bit !

Pretty important that one..

It's also pretty hilarious

[WarpSpeed]

Similarly, Button should have been P5-P6, but qualified P8 - way below where he should have been. He was obviously faster than Schumi during the race (as was Webber), but neither could overtake. Have to blame the aerodynamics etc. for this, i

Precisely, the aerodynamics create too much dirty air preventing cars from following closely enough into the braking area. This is the one point which some can't seem to get their head's around.

There's no doubt about that but that's why there is DTM, NASCAR, V8 Super cars, WTCC, etc.. The equipment is not and will not ever be the same and all the more reason why wholesale changes to formulas that were working after only one season is preposterous, they need to give the rules a rest and let the teams race and work out their cars after backtracking to last years rules and refueling..

[WarpSpeed]

The cars aren't quick enough to overtake

Yeah sorry I missed that bit !

Pretty important that one..

It's also pretty hilarious

ok, how so??

[F1fanatic]

I'm v sorry Warpspeed that I'm not an F1 mechanic so am just trying to understand why the drivers find it impossible to overtake.

Quite possibly its nothing to do with the aerodynamics, its just......???

Are you in a particularly bad mood for some reason? The rest of us are enjoying putting forward our own views (in a non-aggressive way) whilst you are attacking anyone who says anything with which you disagree!

If you genuinely have some 'insider' knowledge that the rest of us are missing out on, please explain this. Otherwise try to be a touch more friendly, we're all F1 fans and enjoy a debate - not an argument.

[H2oDunc]

I cannot understand the constant messing with the rules. Does whipping boy Mosely have nothing to do at F1 headquarters ? Last year was one of the best seasons for years and now they have gone and blown it.WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!

As my old dad used to say

" if it isn't broke, Don't fix it! "

[b19bry]

I cannot understand the constant messing with the rules. Does whipping boy Mosely have nothing to do at F1 headquarters ? Last year was one of the best seasons for years and now they have gone and blown it.WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!

As my old dad used to say

" if it isn't broke, Don't fix it! "

I disagree, I think the problem with aerodynamics preventing much overtaking was still there last year (maybe to a slightly lesser degree) even though last years rules tried to fix this. It's been the major problem with F1 for the last few years and it may be worse this year but after one race on a track with few overtaking points it's hard to be sure.

BTW Mosley has gone now, unfortunately Ferrari supremo Todt has taken over !

[F1fanatic]

I'm hopeful that Todt will prove to be a lot better than Moseley.

[Tatsujin]

After looking forward to this new season for the past 6 months, I was a tad disappointed with the race overall . . . it was boring as hel_l! . . . I ended up switching over and watching the final of hel_l's Kitchen!

Stop messing with the rules . . . it seems like every year it ALL changes over once again.

[H2oDunc]

I cannot understand the constant messing with the rules. Does whipping boy Mosely have nothing to do at F1 headquarters ? Last year was one of the best seasons for years and now they have gone and blown it.WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!

As my old dad used to say

" if it isn't broke, Don't fix it! "

I disagree, I think the problem with aerodynamics preventing much overtaking was still there last year (maybe to a slightly lesser degree) even though last years rules tried to fix this. It's been the major problem with F1 for the last few years and it may be worse this year but after one race on a track with few overtaking points it's hard to be sure.

BTW Mosley has gone now, unfortunately Ferrari supremo Todt has taken over !

Having around 140kg's of extra fuel in the car isn't going to help overtaking opportunities is it now. The cars were running around 7-9 seconds slower in the race than in qualifying. Nothing to do with aerodynamics just weight. Teams cannot use differing fuel strategies any longer. It cannot be allowed to continue through the season if all the races are going to be like this last one. With Bernie boy giving his ex wife a BILLION he isn't going to want to see any drops in revenue due to a crap season.

[F1fanatic]

OK, being so heavy doesn't help - but it doesn't explain why there was no overtaking (other than when Vettel's car failed) during the latter stages of the race when they had little fuel onboard.

[Mosha]

Judging by the cars that didn't complete the slowing down lap, I reckon most cars were on fumes the last few laps.

[WarpSpeed]

I'm v sorry Warpspeed that I'm not an F1 mechanic so am just trying to understand why the drivers find it impossible to overtake.

Quite possibly its nothing to do with the aerodynamics, its just......???

Are you in a particularly bad mood for some reason? The rest of us are enjoying putting forward our own views (in a non-aggressive way) whilst you are attacking anyone who says anything with which you disagree!

If you genuinely have some 'insider' knowledge that the rest of us are missing out on, please explain this. Otherwise try to be a touch more friendly, we're all F1 fans and enjoy a debate - not an argument.

No bad mood but maybe I can put this in a context with which you can relate. I'm sorry this is going to sound a bit condescending there's no way around it so I apologize in advance..

If you're a neurosurgeon and you were trying to have a conversation with a group of middle school children about how to repair an aneurysm it would be a tedious task to say the least, not very interesting and quite discouraging and that's the energy draining frustration I feel, hope that helps you to relate somewhat.. Usually I just avoid these discussions altogether for just that reason.. I'll attempt to do so again in the future as well, I was avoiding this one too, my mistake.. Anyway carry on....

*Addendum* You know looking back I don't even see why you got all defensive? I merely responded to your post with a response of my own and it was contradictory to your post in an attempt to inform you as you say you're not an F1 mechanic. I'm also guessing not even a mechanic am I right?? So no need for you to even get so defensive of my response, instead you just read the content and absorb it accordingly especially if you are not an F1 engineer or any other sort...

Edited March 15, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I cannot understand the constant messing with the rules. Does whipping boy Mosely have nothing to do at F1 headquarters ? Last year was one of the best seasons for years and now they have gone and blown it.WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!

As my old dad used to say

" if it isn't broke, Don't fix it! "

I disagree, I think the problem with aerodynamics preventing much overtaking was still there last year (maybe to a slightly lesser degree) even though last years rules tried to fix this. It's been the major problem with F1 for the last few years and it may be worse this year but after one race on a track with few overtaking points it's hard to be sure.

BTW Mosley has gone now, unfortunately Ferrari supremo Todt has taken over !

So what's the solution? Dozer blades on the front, cattle guards? They fell just short of that last season with the massive front wing added..

[F1fanatic]

I'm v sorry Warpspeed that I'm not an F1 mechanic so am just trying to understand why the drivers find it impossible to overtake.

Quite possibly its nothing to do with the aerodynamics, its just......???

Are you in a particularly bad mood for some reason? The rest of us are enjoying putting forward our own views (in a non-aggressive way) whilst you are attacking anyone who says anything with which you disagree!

If you genuinely have some 'insider' knowledge that the rest of us are missing out on, please explain this. Otherwise try to be a touch more friendly, we're all F1 fans and enjoy a debate - not an argument.

No bad mood but maybe I can put this in a context with which you can relate. I'm sorry this is going to sound a bit condescending there's no way around it so I apologize in advance..

If you're a neurosurgeon and you were trying to have a conversation with a group of middle school children about how to repair an aneurysm it would be a tedious task to say the least, not very interesting and quite discouraging and that's the energy draining frustration I feel, hope that helps you to relate somewhat.. Usually I just avoid these discussions altogether for just that reason.. I'll attempt to do so again in the future as well, I was avoiding this one too, my mistake.. Anyway carry on....

*Addendum* You know looking back I don't even see why you got all defensive? I merely responded to your post with a response of my own and it was contradictory to your post in an attempt to inform you as you say you're not an F1 mechanic. I'm also guessing not even a mechanic am I right?? So no need for you to even get so defensive of my response, instead you just read the content and absorb it accordingly especially if you are not an F1 engineer or any other sort...

OK, I get it - you're a troll.

Please go elsewhere to play. This is a forum for those who follow F1 and enjoy discussing what's happening.

You'll enjoy yourself far more in the General Forum.

[WarpSpeed]

I cannot understand the constant messing with the rules. Does whipping boy Mosely have nothing to do at F1 headquarters ? Last year was one of the best seasons for years and now they have gone and blown it.WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!

As my old dad used to say

" if it isn't broke, Don't fix it! "

I disagree, I think the problem with aerodynamics preventing much overtaking was still there last year (maybe to a slightly lesser degree) even though last years rules tried to fix this. It's been the major problem with F1 for the last few years and it may be worse this year but after one race on a track with few overtaking points it's hard to be sure.

BTW Mosley has gone now, unfortunately Ferrari supremo Todt has taken over !

Having around 140kg's of extra fuel in the car isn't going to help overtaking opportunities is it now. The cars were running around 7-9 seconds slower in the race than in qualifying. Nothing to do with aerodynamics just weight. Teams cannot use differing fuel strategies any longer. It cannot be allowed to continue through the season if all the races are going to be like this last one. With Bernie boy giving his ex wife a BILLION he isn't going to want to see any drops in revenue due to a crap season.

Yeah the knowledge of how that extra weight effects EVERY aspect of the cars performance is sorely lacking from this discussion and the fact that there no longer is any guess work or strategy of when or how often to pit.. Everything from braking, cornering, accelerating, aero because to carry that much weight you have to make the wings cut more air which causes more turbulence and raise the car off the ground more, to tire wear, the list is endless, also a slower car also creates more turbulence as the air flows over it at a slower rate and disrupts flow further behind the car with less exiting flow to the car behind..

I hope you're right and he (Bernie with Todt's persuasion) does see the light sooner rather then later..