The 2010 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

Red Bull most probably split the strategies and gave the one that looked better to Webber only to find out that the one Vettel had was the right one to have given the circumstances ( Webber was stuck behind Hulkenberg and complaining like a brat to his team as he was not able to overtake the German driver )

Cheers

Webber had good right to complain. The Hulk kept straightlining the chicane in order to stay ahead. Why that isn't against the rules but straightlining the chicane to get ahead is, i have no idea - makes no sense.

They are both very much against the rules, how Hulkenburg was able to repeatedly keep doing this and get away with it is a mystery, the stewards should have brought him in for a stop-go, Webber is more than justified in being angry.

It certainly should be against the rules but whether it actually is or not i don't know how we can judge when we don't know what the exact wording of the rule is.

[Mosha]

Get the technology out of the cars, and get back to communicating with the pits via the boards hung from the pit wall.

Interesting idea Mosha. Do I take it you are against team orders and think this measure would prevent it?

It wouldn't prevent it but they would have to be more creative in how they implemented them. Also (if it's possible to do it now) Stops the team interfering with settings in the engine out side of the pits.

[b19bry]

Red Bull most probably split the strategies and gave the one that looked better to Webber only to find out that the one Vettel had was the right one to have given the circumstances ( Webber was stuck behind Hulkenberg and complaining like a brat to his team as he was not able to overtake the German driver )

Cheers

Webber had good right to complain. The Hulk kept straightlining the chicane in order to stay ahead. Why that isn't against the rules but straightlining the chicane to get ahead is, i have no idea - makes no sense.

They are both very much against the rules, how Hulkenburg was able to repeatedly keep doing this and get away with it is a mystery, the stewards should have brought him in for a stop-go, Webber is more than justified in being angry.

It certainly should be against the rules but whether it actually is or not i don't know how we can judge when we don't know what the exact wording of the rule is.

Mmmm, I can't quote you but the rule indicates you can't leave the track and gain an unfair advantage, it's just the stewards are far too liberal in the application of this. This rule is not specific to F1, it's a bit like playing the ball out of the field in football but playing on.

[soihok]

Have received my weekend pass to this weekends Singapore F1, will be in the grandstand at turn 2

Best part is that its free of charge

Its no MotoGP for me this year,but will have some action afterall.

[dominique355]

I wonder why everyone criticize Ferrari's team orders in this forum but no one have mentioned RED BULL.

Where did Vettel's engine power loss go?! It came and stayed only as long as Webber needed to overtake him, however it disappeared just before Schumacher did the same. Very strange and biased problem that was but since it is not Ferrari there is no need to complain....Am I right?

Is there any detailed technical description about how the problem occurred out of the blue and then was solved without external intervention, you're welcome to surprise me if you have the explanation!!!

Red Bull most probably split the strategies and gave the one that looked better to Webber only to find out that the one Vettel had was the right one to have given the circumstances ( Webber was stuck behind Hulkenberg and complaining like a brat to his team as he was not able to overtake the German driver )

Cheers

And how about MacLaren with Hamilton under attack from Button in Turkey? Then JB got the message to "save fuel"! If that wasn't team order, then Ferrari should also get off the hook with their German stunt.

[rixalex]

And how about MacLaren with Hamilton under attack from Button in Turkey? Then JB got the message to "save fuel"! If that wasn't team order, then Ferrari should also get off the hook with their German stunt.

I think it probably was a team order but as has already been discussed, for most people there is quite a difference between orders that are given to prevent two team mates fighting each other and possibily taking each other off the track, and a team order that forces one driver to slow down to allow another past. I'm sure had Alonso been told that if he couldn't get passed Massa easily, to back off, yes it would have been a team order but nobody would have minded so much because the race results wouldn't have been blatantly manipulated or changed because of it.

[JetsetBkk]

I wonder why everyone criticize Ferrari's team orders in this forum but no one have mentioned RED BULL.

Where did Vettel's engine power loss go?! It came and stayed only as long as Webber needed to overtake him

<snip>

you're welcome to surprise me if you have the explanation!!!

<snip>

OK, prepare to be surprised...

The car-to-pits radio communications are on one frequency. The secret engine management control communications are on another. The guy in the secret engine management control centre pushes a button.... I think you get the idea.

[PattayaParent]

^^if I remember right it was Hamilton out in front after Webber had been Schumachered out of the lead by Vettel, and Hamilton was told to save fuel and he asked 'has JB been told to save fuel also?'

This was after JB had tried to overtake LH if I remember right.

[soihok]

Hey guys.

Just returned from tonights free practice.

Great experience, the Red Bulls and Ferrari's are the loudest cars out there. Ripples in my beer kind of loud.

Its a great spectacle, the show down here. The weekends just begun and it is really buzzing with excitment. The back drop of Singapores skyline echoing with state of the art engines screaming like banshee's.

Totally awesome.

Wish you were here!!!

Good show and I look forward to this weekends entertainment,,,,,.

[rixalex]

Hey guys.

Just returned from tonights free practice.

Great experience, the Red Bulls and Ferrari's are the loudest cars out there. Ripples in my beer kind of loud.

Its a great spectacle, the show down here. The weekends just begun and it is really buzzing with excitment. The back drop of Singapores skyline echoing with state of the art engines screaming like banshee's.

Totally awesome.

Wish you were here!!!

Good show and I look forward to this weekends entertainment,,,,,.

How rude of the Red Bulls and Ferraris to be interfering with the head of your beer!

Have a great time mate. Jealous. Don't forget to give us a wave.

[soihok]

Cheers rix,

I have a seat at turn one / two, can see the length of the start / finish straight. Its going to be some experience seeing all these cars fly down into these turns on Sunday, the turn is 90 degrees and very narrow.

Can't wait.

[Miiyai46]

Enjoy your F1 weekend Soihok and do share your best pictures with us!!!

I know is a bit difficult to predict the weather in Singapore but what is the forecast? Dry or wet race?

Forza Ferrari!!!

[soihok]

Cheers Miiyai.

I,ll certainly try my best.

The pattern of weather this week has been like this; -

Dry up to midday, torential rain sometime in afternoon, then completely clear sky before sun set. The strangest weather patterns here.

I,m taking my Sony Handycam, so will try to post some clips.

Cheers

[globerunner4]

Sorry if this has been asked but is it possible to get F1 in HD? I'd like to watch Singapore GP in HD at a bar in Phuket today. And if True has it I might have to sign up for the home. Thanks

[Miiyai46]

Great race by all the championship contenders. Lewis was really unlucky last night as his manoeuvre over Webber was fantastic and in my opinion Webber should have let him go as the Mclaren was 1/2 car in front of him.

1.- Webber - 202

2.- Alonso - 191

3.- Hamilton - 182

4.- Vettel - 181

5.- Button - 177

After Singapore's round all 5 drivers are still in 25 points and we still have 3 confirmed races to go. I know that we should have 4 races but S.Korea round will most probably be canceled as the circuit has not been completed yet and the FIA has not been able to their test. A circuit must be tested and approved by the FIA 3 months before race day...

Forza Ferrari!!!

[JetsetBkk]

Great race by all the championship contenders. Lewis was really unlucky last night as his manoeuvre over Webber was fantastic and in my opinion Webber should have let him go as the Mclaren was 1/2 car in front of him.

<snip>

I tend to agree, but it was 50-50 a "racing incident". Hamilton was mostly unlucky because he got pushed over the curbing sideways. I think that's what did the damage, not the impact from Webber's front wheel although that impact clearly set off the chain of events that put Hamilton out of the race.

Unusual for a front end to get away with it and for a rear end to suffer - more like a touring car race

[Mosha]

Sorry but to me it was another Webber moment. He's good at finding fault. Lewis was 1/2 a car in front.

[F1fanatic]

Sorry but to me it was another Webber moment. He's good at finding fault. Lewis was 1/2 a car in front.

To quote a post from another forum -

Go to 34 Seconds in this video:

Now, who here that says Webber should have given up will also say Hamilton should have given up and allowed Button to make the pass?

It is a nearly identical situation to Webber and Hamilton. Button came from behind, attempted to pass on the outside, and Hamilton flew up on the inside, refusing to give up, and prevented Button from making the pass.

The ONLY difference between Button and Hamilton in Turkey and Hamilton and Webber today is that when Button was on the outside, he left enough room for Hamilton. When Hamilton was outside he did NOT leave room for Webber.

[PattayaParent]

Sorry but to me it was another Webber moment. He's good at finding fault. Lewis was 1/2 a car in front.

But Lewis turned into him instead of maintaining his line around the curve.

He probably expected to damage Webber's front suspension and put him out of the race as happened to himself last week, but as was mentioned at the weekend, the build of the McClaren is a lot more fragile than the other cars.

[PattayaParent]

I'm struggling to find the actual rule but I think It goes beyond just taking a place, I believe it states something about 'gaining an advantage' which Lewis clearly did, no debate about it.

So what we are saying then is that the rule is black and white and anyone with knowledge of motor racing would know that Lewis broke the rule... but we are not sure what the exact rule is. As you say then, clearly no debate about it.

I think its the one about going off line and gaining an advantage....

The battle between Mark and Nico got me thinking again of this discussion above we had some time back.

If the rule goes beyond just taking a place and is something about "gaining an advantage", who could possibly argue that Nico wasn't gaining an advantage? How is straightlining a chicane to stay ahead any less a crime than straightlining a chicane to get ahead? The outcome of both is that you are falsely one place up the standings than you should be. Not surprised that Mark was doing his nut and asking for FIA intervention.

This rule remains confusing and nonsensical to me.

Well at least Hulkenberg got pulled for it retrospectively at Singapore and has been dropped to 10th place.

[rixalex]

Great race by all the championship contenders. Lewis was really unlucky last night as his manoeuvre over Webber was fantastic and in my opinion Webber should have let him go as the Mclaren was 1/2 car in front of him.

Yes it was a fun race wasn't it.

Alonso had a flawless drive and controlled the race from beginning to end. Well done to him.

Vettel had a wierd race i thought. Perhaps all the accidents he has been involved in recently has made him a more circumspect sort of a driver. He radioed in and told the team that he wasn't pushing, and that seemed borne out by his pace at certain times, particularly near the end when he showed that he could up the pace. But then why didn't he try and put Alonso under more pressure? He didn't really have a go at any time. Not only that but he allowed Alonso a decent cushion of time - enough that he could easily pit and maintain his track position. Didn't make much sense to me. He should have had at least one go at getting passed.

Webber's race tactics worked out very well for him. Coming out ahead of Lewis was the result of great team work to have brought him in early. As far as the accident is concerned, i thought that although Webber probably was more to blame in it all, it wasn't intentional by any means, and to have punished him would have been wrong - just as it was wrong for Vettel to have been punished in Spa. These things are just racing accidents and are part of the sport. No need for the FIA to get involved.

Lewis must be feeling very down but as i said after his accident in Monza - in which he was to blame - the way that he drives is in my opinion what makes him a great driver and there will always be times when moves don't come off. It's the difference between him and Button. Button is a very good driver and usually does a solid job, but there is rarely much exceptional about it. He didn't seem in any way interested in trying to find a way past Mark. And why not? Lewis had very nearly shown that it was quite possible to do, and Button's car had the same pace. Maybe he just decided he'd take the points and not take any risks, and if that way of driving wins a person the title then it's hard to argue with that... except that for me drivers being prepared to put their necks on the line and do something daring or attempt something audacious is what

i watch the sport for. Playing it safe is not.

[Mosha]

Are there any contingency plans if Korea aren't ready?

Also does Bernie know?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/10/11334.html

Edited October 3, 2010 by Mosha

[TBWG]

Thailand and F1

October 6, 2010 by joesaward

Dietrich Mateschitz has long been a man with ambitions in motor racing. He has been involved in the sport since the very beginning of the Red Bull story, when the then new drinks company had a personal sponsorship deal with Gerhard Berger. He then became the sponsor of Sauber and ultimately bought the Jaguar Racing and Minardi teams to become Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso. He also acquired the Osterreichring, which is now known as the Red Bull Ring. On top of all of this he has invested in a NASCAR team and in any number of personal sponsorships in the junior formulae, in rallying, touring car racing and so on. His ambition is to win the World Championship, while at the same time increasing sales of his celebrated energy drink.

What is not well known is that Mateschitz owns only 49% of the business. His partner Chaleo Yoovidhya, a Thai national, owns another 49%, while Yoovidhya’s son Chalerm owns the remaining two percent, having been the man who introduced the two major partners. That was back in the early 1980s. The deal was that Mateschitz would run the business, but that the Thais would have nominal control. Chaleo (78) is now the richest person in Thailand, with a fortune estimated at $4 billion, thanks to Red Bull, and to other products that are produced by his TC Pharmaceuticals company, which continues to market the original energy drink Krating Daeng (on which Red Bull is based) in the Asian markets. The success of the Red Bull business has enabled Chalerm to become Thailand’s most celebrated winemaker, while also being the co-owner of Cavallino Motors, a joint venture with the Bhirombhakdi Family, which owns the Singha Beer company. Singha was recently seen as a sponsor on the Red Bull-Renaults in F1 and said that this was designed to promote Formula 1 in Thailand, which would automatically create interest in Ferrari.

Now Chalerm is saying that he wants to build a F1 circuit in Thailand, so that there can be a Thai Grand Prix. He says that this will help to boost the tourism industry in the country. The country does have a 1.5-mile circuit near the seaside resort of Pattaya. This was built in 1985 and named after Prince Birabongse Bhanutej Bhanubandh (known in Europe as “Prince Bira”) who raced Grand Prix cars with some success in the 1940s and 1950s. This is not suitable for Formula 1.

The shift of F1 towards Asia means that Thailand should be considered a sensible contender if Red Bull is willing to put up the money. Why not a Red Bull Ring in Asia, as well as in Austria?

TBWG

PS Roll on!

[Miiyai46]

Thanks for the good info TBWG, it would be very nice to have a F1 round in the Kingdom.

Lotus racing has confirmed that next season they will be using Red Bull technology gearboxes and hydraulic system. This year they have been using Xtrc technology with a very low performance and reliability.

Their agreement with Costworth for the Engine will expire the end of this year and most probably Lotus will be using Renault engines during 2011.

Well done by Lotus as all this changes should make them improve the low performance they are having this year.

Cheers

[TBWG]

Hi F1 fans

Seven Eleven again part sponsoring Red Bull for Japanese GP this weekend, although seven eleven is a worldwide organisation I still see it as a good sign for the importance of this part of the world in GP racing. Who knows Thailand may well get a GP in the future.

TBWG

[wackysleet]

Hi F1 fans

Seven Eleven again part sponsoring Red Bull for Japanese GP this weekend, although seven eleven is a worldwide organisation I still see it as a good sign for the importance of this part of the world in GP racing. Who knows Thailand may well get a GP in the future.

TBWG

TBWG. Yes, it would be good but it would obviously take place in the rainy season to coincide with the other Asian races and as spectacle I prefer a dry race, I really want to see racing not a cloud of spray, and I don't think it will happen in my lifetime unfortunately.

[PattayaParent]

TBWG. Yes, it would be good but it would obviously take place in the rainy season to coincide with the other Asian races and as spectacle I prefer a dry race, I really want to see racing not a cloud of spray, and I don't think it will happen in my lifetime unfortunately.

and another concern would be that it would draw fans away from the other F1 races in the area, particularly Malaysia as the Singapore race is so unique.

I don't think they would allow another race in the region unless the Malaysia race was going to be cancelled or it has it's own uniqueness (Bangkok street circuit anyone??)

They could possibly build a track for the other F series though that could be used for F1 in future should the Malaysia franchise be cancelled.

[wackysleet]

and another concern would be that it would draw fans away from the other F1 races in the area, particularly Malaysia as the Singapore race is so unique.

I don't think they would allow another race in the region unless the Malaysia race was going to be cancelled or it has it's own uniqueness (Bangkok street circuit anyone??)

They could possibly build a track for the other F series though that could be used for F1 in future should the Malaysia franchise be cancelled.

And another point to consider, this being Thailand just how many palms would Bernie have to grease to get a track operational here should the franchise for Malasia go belly up in the future:jap:

[b19bry]

Well done by Lotus as all this changes should make them improve the low performance they are having this year.

Cheers

low performance........ ???????

Indeed well done Lotus, they have clearly been the best new team of the season.

However, having said that going to the next level is likely to be a long (& expensive) road.

[b19bry]

and another concern would be that it would draw fans away from the other F1 races in the area, particularly Malaysia as the Singapore race is so unique.

I don't think they would allow another race in the region unless the Malaysia race was going to be cancelled or it has it's own uniqueness (Bangkok street circuit anyone??)

They could possibly build a track for the other F series though that could be used for F1 in future should the Malaysia franchise be cancelled.

And another point to consider, this being Thailand just how many palms would Bernie have to grease to get a track operational here should the franchise for Malasia go belly up in the future:jap:

Agreed, Bernie's beyond that by now, I think it's highly unlikely we'll see F1 in Thailand in the near term, Singapore represents much more the way he (& F1) wants to go.

But hey, I thought Korea would be a good move too ?