Jonathanpattaya Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Yes I do, and I think they will.Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? It isn't gonna happen. Why don't the redshirts just wait for the 2011 elections instead of further discrediting themselves? We'll see. As for the Redshirts discrediting themselves, it's way too late to worry about that. Just cast your mind back to last year when they broke up the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya and made Thailand a laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 did anybody really think Abhisit would give into the demands of these people?........Abashit has nothing to say,only to do what mr Suthep tell him to do. I just watched his speech on TV. It was impressive. He spoke with authority, but was very civil. Explaining what was going on, why he CAN'T step down now, and that all should work together within the framework of the constitution to change the country for the better. He countered the mis-information being spewed on the red's stages...especially regarding the playback on state of that doctored video clip of him ordering the government to go at the protesters last year. The reds are going at this with everything they can...good or bad. The government is not...they are just trying to keep control of the situation. He is doing a great job at walking a tightrope. Trying to keep things from getting out of control. I think he should be congratulated. Now is definitely not the time to do new elections. Get Thaksin out of the way and then this country can heal itself. So far, this rally seems to be a flop...do I hear the fat lady singing for Thaksin? God I hope so...I have had enough of him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granuaile Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. At least the world can see what kind of people are in power. If the army has to shoot it will be in response to the same violent redshirt actions as last year. If the redshirts had acted responsibly in April the military would not have had to use force. The same is true in the current situation. The government has shown that it wants to use restraint. It has shown patience. But if the redshirts attempt to "paralyze" Bangkok again and if they resort to the violence they used last April, then use of force, including armed force, is justifiable by the government. How many governments would have allowed this after last years violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherpeter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 According the BBC which I trust significantly more than the Thai media or police the numbers were far greater. The greatest gathering in 30 years. It is is quite bizarre that Abhisit is lecturing Thai people about the way elections should be held. He is not elected at all and refuses to let the people decide if he is suitable as a PM. The people are angry because they voted for PPP and not for the DP or Bhumjaithai. The votes were simply stolen under pressure of the military. Check http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html for response as to why he is the elected leader. The protestors are angry because their minority party (less than 50%) and the parties that formed the previous coaltion government are no longer in power and a new minority party have now formed a coalition government. Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. At least the world can see what kind of people are in power. On the other hand must I admit that i do not really understand Thaksin either. He must have numerous contacts in the IT world, for a few million dollar he could paralyze the computer systems of the Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and Charoen Pokhand and those of numerous ministries. Russian hackers are for sale and it will lead to a bloodless counter coup. The army will not shoot until they are provoked ... and I mean really provoked. They will use the riot police first. The people do have the right to elections, whatever Abhisit may claim. Comparing the UK system of government with that in Thailand is an insult to the people of the Great Britain. True Brown was not elected either, but his party members were and never switched party under pressure of the elite. The people have a right to elections. They will get elections in 2011 as scheduled. The UK (and Aus) and Thai systems are very similar. It is legitimate to change parties. Politicians do it because they don't believe their current party is doing the right thing. Parties change also change coalition allegences for similar reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovaltina Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I think Abhisit looks really cute when he stands his ground.^^ .... it is a huge waste of resources and energy in a poor country which is having serious drought problems. Thailand is NOT a poor country! Thailand is a rich country with lots of poor people and a few VERY rich ones. If Thailand was a poor country, not so many corrupt people could have amassed so much wealth. Once Thailand is rid of corruption with an apt government, it will take care of its own people and the number of poor will dramatically decrease and average revenue will increase and quality of life for average Thai will improve. This is when most of us will move to another paradise where we can still get services very cheap and all the rest that goes with it... which is making our life currently so easy here... Well, I have always said that Thailand has the agricultural & cultural backbone to surprise the world in terms of how advanced & affluent it can become, in the future. I also believe that the current PM wants to move the country forward & have greater meritocracy, and to solve the rural & indeed urban poverty & low education. But today there is massive poverty. If you think that armed upheavel of the govt. will actually lead to less and not more corruption, and fairer distribution of wealth then you & I disagree. I see the best hope is that the current Govt. is allowed to progress with slow but essential social infrastructure improvements, and that there is no more needless blood in the streets. In England and Sweden we have aristocracies who literally *own* 70% of the country. The actual physical land. They allow organisations to use the land for conservation etc. but the aristocratic families own it by inheritance. You are not allowed to walk on this 70%/country private land, unless by permission of the aristocracy or their chosen affiliates. Who by definition are a super-wealthy Elite. And yet, the main 99.9% portion of society, crammed into the cities & suburbs, has got a relatively high standard of living with free basic health care, & available food, housing etc. People stopped marching on the capital and repeatedly try to overthrow the Elites, they eventually accepted that these elites are holding the cards and you have to work the system around them. And in anycase, if you topple one elite he is replaced by a new elite with a slightly different hairstyle. The elites, by osmosis , gradually accepted this and gave concessions to the normal working masses, by Prince's Trust, National Trust, investments in helping lower classes etc.etc. , and funnilly enough money was increased by bringing in huge numbers of tourists who want to see the elites in all their extravagent splendour. There is a middle ground where you can eliminate poverty without burning everything to the ground, bringing everything to a crashing stop, and hating anybody who has got more than you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dap Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Of Course he turns down the demand, for his teammates are still haven't had their fill of wealth and power. Politicians, regardles of political camp seems to be power addict. Once he is up there he cannot see plights of the people. Four years in power is too long for any Thai government. Yes ... look what happened to Thaksin. He was there for 5 years. Lets have elections every year. That's a great way to improve the economy. You gotta' be kidding! Every year? Considering the alcohol laws pertaining to elections, we'd never get a cold beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherpeter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Yes I do, and I think they will.Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? "Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote." Please explain to me how that is any different than Samak, and especially Somchai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo69 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I think Abhisit looks really cute when he stands his ground.^^ I just hope he can find a balanced compromise that lets the Reds march off home feeling they've made their point re; the need for further rural infrastructure investment, without anybody from either side of the discussion being injured or worse. I bet he feels like a trapeze walker right now. Looking at this from abroad & as a foreigner, it is obvious that all this money & energy being wasted in marching and waving photos of a fallen dictator around, and on the other side, the wasted resources of trying to securely monitor it all, it is a huge waste of resources and energy in a poor country which is having serious drought problems. All this energy,on both sides, could have been better spent trying to minimise the damage the drought is & will cause. "fallen DICTATOR? Really? And here is me believing that he was popurlarly elected by the people! NOT once, but TWICE! Silly me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovaltina Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 "fallen DICTATOR? Really? And here is me believing that he was popurlarly elected by the people! NOT once, but TWICE! Silly me! Sorry, I meant to say " convicted grand-fraudster and wanted criminal ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. At least the world can see what kind of people are in power. And the true nature of the reds is revealed. Not that it really took too much to work out their little gameplan, after all they're so far following the failed plan of last Songkran. Start peacefully, then, when ignored, throw a tantrum and goad the military and citizens of Bangkok into responding. The plan to have monks in the ranks failed, now they'll just have to hope enough elderly get caught up amongst the red thugs to make an impression on international news. Who cares how many are injured or killed? So be it. As long as the world can see. One trick ponies, or do they have something else up their sleeves? Or the sleeves of Pinmalee and Sae Daeng? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuchanart Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Judgingfrom the average education of the RED, they are not very smart in comparison to the YELLOW. Who invented the airport siezure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunjamespittman Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 did anybody really think Abhisit would give into the demands of these people? It will all go away when a more aggressive campaign as to the real nature of the fugitive they are supporting comes to light. To me it's just so weird that they let this cowardly behavior continue from abroad and just a simple campaign with education as the focus might be the best defense. Butwho knows,, everything i thought was normal is, just not here. More of the name calling. It is disgraceful. Civil discourse is the only way out of this mess. Does anyone have a clue of the exact wording in the Thai constitution regarding no confidence of a sitting government? It is my belief that it is similar to other parlimentary governments and requires that a new election be held with in a vey short period. Did the court ever explain why this was not required? I can't find anything on it. Certainly a internationally supervised election would end the problems we are in now. Negotiate, No more name calling, Please. Don't be a part of the problem! Be a part of a solution for a peaceful and prosperous Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunjamespittman Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 did anybody really think Abhisit would give into the demands of these people? It will all go away when a more aggressive campaign as to the real nature of the fugitive they are supporting comes to light. To me it's just so weird that they let this cowardly behavior continue from abroad and just a simple campaign with education as the focus might be the best defense. Butwho knows,, everything i thought was normal is, just not here. More of the name calling. It is disgraceful. Civil discourse is the only way out of this mess. Does anyone have a clue of the exact wording in the Thai constitution regarding no confidence of a sitting government? It is my belief that it is similar to other parlimentary governments and requires that a new election be held with in a vey short period. Did the court ever explain why this was not required? I can't find anything on it. Certainly a internationally supervised election would end the problems we are in now. Negotiate, No more name calling, Please. Don't be a part of the problem! Be a part of a solution for a peaceful and prosperous Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 "fallen DICTATOR? Really? And here is me believing that he was popurlarly elected by the people! NOT once, but TWICE! Silly me! Are you talking about Taki Shinegra or George W. Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 TAN network: Reports indicate red shirts start to cut barbed wire along infantry fence This could get messy. If this is true and they begin illegally storming into the infantry, it is over for the reds and UDD. Seems as though UDD has made the first move, which is a very bad choice for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantone Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 The Yellow-shirted people said down with Thaksin. The Red-shirted people said down with Abhisit. Either of the group are saying 'he is evil, or his government is evil". Perhaps, another politician comes along, becomes the new PM, and then another group of people (say orange-shirted) will holler, 'down with him'. -- There is always a group of people who are not satisfied. I hope people can realize that there is never a perfect government or a perfect PM. I hope people realize that during election time (whenever that happens), they will be electing an imperfect PM -- well, just as long as he is lesser evil, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 did anybody really think Abhisit would give into the demands of these people? It will all go away when a more aggressive campaign as to the real nature of the fugitive they are supporting comes to light. To me it's just so weird that they let this cowardly behavior continue from abroad and just a simple campaign with education as the focus might be the best defense. Butwho knows,, everything i thought was normal is, just not here. I could not see him doing that, and I am glad he stood his ground. Does anyone really thinks, the RED Shirts Thugs can oust the PM Yes I do, and I think they will. Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? Actually the difference here is the Abhisit has won parliamentary elections which is one thing that Thaksin has never ever achieved. Also there is a strong belief amongst those that know that Ab is not corrupt and he fights it every day. That's what makes his situation so precarious - he is cetainly surrounded by those who want their pockets full of Baht but AB is immovable on this point. So don't, please, tar eveyone with the same brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. Why does 'something have to give.' ? The protest is losing what little razzle it had. They'll go home. Hopefully to get ready for a vote in 2012. Thai authorities are showing admirable restraint. Couldn't happen in Burma or China, and certainly not in N.Korea. The authorities would be out in a Beijing minute. Thankfully, we reside in Thailand, where a cool head known as Abhisit is at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
favre360 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I live off phaholyothin and this movements been going on all morning!! Just went outside to get a bit of footage and they all seemed pretty friendly, more of a parade than a protest. They all were shouting "Hey you!!" to try and get on film lol. If it's true that they've started causing trouble outside the barracks the army is gonna have quite a doozy on their hands. Based on what I can see from the catwalk there many thousands of reds still in transit, and I can't even see how many are still on Wipawadee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathanpattaya Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Yes I do, and I think they will.Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? "Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote." Please explain to me how that is any different than Samak, and especially Somchai. I didn't say it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicco Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 in the meantime, the economy goes further in the drain... Why do people keep saying this....the Baht is strong against all the main currencies, and the Taiex has remained stable.....relatively speaking..on Bloomberg this morning it was up about 14 points. The underlaying economy keeps chugging along despite all the nonsense......guess most people are used to political turmoil by now...,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Yes I do, and I think they will.Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? It isn't gonna happen. Why don't the redshirts just wait for the 2011 elections instead of further discrediting themselves? Of course Abhisit won a popular election, he is an elected MP, and it from those ranks that ALL Prime Ministers are chosen from, but other Minsters of Parliament. The PUBLIC has NEVER directly elected ANY Thailand PM. Not even the beloved Godhead Thaksin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggy Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 According the BBC which I trust significantly more than the Thai media or police the numbers were far greater. The greatest gathering in 30 years. It is is quite bizarre that Abhisit is lecturing Thai people about the way elections should be held. He is not elected at all and refuses to let the people decide if he is suitable as a PM. The people are angry because they voted for PPP and not for the DP or Bhumjaithai. The votes were simply stolen under pressure of the military. Something has to give. If it means that the army will start shooting, so it be. At least the world can see what kind of people are in power. On the other hand must I admit that i do not really understand Thaksin either. He must have numerous contacts in the IT world, for a few million dollar he could paralyze the computer systems of the Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and Charoen Pokhand and those of numerous ministries. Russian hackers are for sale and it will lead to a bloodless counter coup. The people do have the right to elections, whatever Abhisit may claim. Comparing the UK system of government with that in Thailand is an insult to the people of the Great Britain. True Brown was not elected either, but his party members were and never switched party under pressure of the elite. I think you'll find that Abhisit was elected an MP by winning in his constituency a number of times, whereas Thaksin never won any election he stood in. He became PM on the back of being a party list MP with TRT. In other words he was never elected to public office, but Abhisit was. Finally, when a ruling party is dissolved (PPP) the party with the next biggest majority (democrats + others) is put in power, regardless of how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherpeter Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Yes I do, and I think they will.Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote. Why not accept the gauntlet and stand for election? "Abhisit never won a popular election but was installed by a Parliamentary vote." Please explain to me how that is any different than Samak, and especially Somchai. I didn't say it wasn't. So why would he even think about calling an election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rreddin Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 So now the tricky bit. They asked him to stand down and he of course refused, so now do they all go home? I think not. This will go on for many more than four days and could get nasty. They must have a plan B knowing that the PM would not dissolve the house.Cheers, Rick I doubt very much that this weekend's rally is anything more than a public display. They will have factored into their plans that the govt would not call fresh elections. The real events are taking place out of the public's view. It does not require many of the coalition MP's to change side (some have done it before) and the governing coalition will not have a majority. Abihsit is busy counting heads. For the moment he thinks he has enough support to cling on - for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 (edited) Seems they are now heading back to Rachadamnoen or maybe not depending if you believe the unmentionable one or TAN Edited March 15, 2010 by hammered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 So now the tricky bit. They asked him to stand down and he of course refused, so now do they all go home? I think not. This will go on for many more than four days and could get nasty. They must have a plan B knowing that the PM would not dissolve the house.Cheers, Rick I doubt very much that this weekend's rally is anything more than a public display. They will have factored into their plans that the govt would not call fresh elections. The real events are taking place out of the public's view. It does not require many of the coalition MP's to change side (some have done it before) and the governing coalition will not have a majority. Abihsit is busy counting heads. For the moment he thinks he has enough support to cling on - for the time being. I think your analysis is quite accurate but needs to factor in that a change will have to have military support too and that will involve difficult negotatiations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 The reds took a big gamble, and lost. Now it is a matter of how are they going to deal with the massive loss of face. I suggest they continue peacefully, make a speech to fight on in the next election, and go home. That way, they will have had one big PEACEFUL rally to soften their well deserved horrible reputation after Black Songkran. Will they be so rational? I doubt it. Some spot violence or a takeover of something is rather likely. Remember how desperate Thaksin is now and that unstable man is their leader, and calls the shots. As far as the ridiculous notion that the Thai army will now shoot on this currently PEACEFUL crowd, why would Abhisit ruin his victory that way? Of course if the reds do some extreme violent PROVOCATION, the army may need to react with force, but Burma style massacre of peaceful people is just not going to happen (thankfully!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL9000 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 The one thing I have to say as an American observer of Thai politics is that Thailand needs to learn that in a democracy, if things don't go your way, you have to wait until the next election to fix it. Democrats didn't tear up the US when the Republicans won, and likewise, Republicans didn't do it either when the Democrats won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Pedantic post concerning math and grammar skills has been deleted. Please stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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