Deposed Thai Premier Thaksin Now In Montenegro

[mazeltov]

Of course the Foreign Ministry is a joke. I thought it was quite obvious even before now.

i think that might be the way how the government is trying to track him and observe his whereabouts and movements.

publish some random guess of whatever you got from a fictional informed source and declare something what isn't totally unlikely. at least there is a small chance it turns out right, but the actually goal is to push Thaksin to deny it and came forward with his current location. voilà.

[Publicus]

The Republic of Montenegro adopted its extant constitution on 19 October 2007.

On Dec 15, 2008 Montenegro submitted an application for membership of the EU, which is pending and inactive due to Montenego's failures to address the country's status as a human trafficing route of transit.

This is apsolutly not true(it is nonsense).Application is very active and we will officialy become candidates until the end of year,most likely(EU englargment commissioner Stefan Fule who said that we are on our way) and become NATO members in 2012. at latest.I dont think you found this information on CIA(in fact I am preety sure you didnt or it is old info).It is true that we are targeted as one of the routes for trafficking,but nothing alarming-so is every other Balkan country including EU members Bulgaria and Romania.

Also Montenegro is not republic(it is,but its official name is just Montenegro and not Republic of Montenegro,it was before 2007. constitution).Any relevant institution(including CIA) will call us just Montenegro.

Cia world factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/mj.html

Germany, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands hold resevations about Montenegran accession to the EU, citing the European Commission Report in 2008 that Montenegro "lags behind in many fields" in respect to the conventional standards of EU accession, meaning therefore that "EU membership is not expected to occur in the near future." These countries hold reservations against Montenegran accession to the EU because of Montenegro's lacking ecological standards, failures to take action to stop the country's being a human trafficing transit route and due to its having pervasive corruption in its government to include especially its judicary.

Additionally, Montenegro has been criticized by domestic opposition leaders for issuing passports "to several persons who are on the Interpol Wanted Red List" and for "slowly becoming a safe ground [haven] for all those who need to escape justice and continue their large businesses." Most recently and in particular, Thaksin Shinawatra whose name "Thaksin Shinawatra" has been plastered on the front pages of Montenegran newspapers since March 10th. (No mention of a person named "Shinegra" in the Montenegran media.)

The Montenegran regime of Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic is described in local blogs as "one of the most corrupt in Europe" and that PM Djukanovic and "other high officials are accused and under investigation in Italian courts for tobbacco smuggling, money laundering and other criminal activities."

This is exactly the mob of national leaders and other gangsters Thaksin is at home with and that we would expect Thaksin the fugitive from Thai justice to associate with abroad. Protestations by Thaksin salesmen in Montenegro not withstanding, Thaksin in Montenegro is happily associating with criminal mobs and gangsters in government who are running a country whose accession to the EU is being blocked by major EU member states both large and small.

The European Council on 22 July 2009 presented the Montenegran government with a questionaire to further assess its application. On Dec 9, 2009 the Council stated that its opinion regarding the application of Montenegro to eventually join the EU "will be delivered during the course of 2010." NATO yes for strategic military reasons, but if I were in (or a) Montenegro, I realistically shouldn't be expecting much of the European Council's coming opinion.

http://www.montenegro.blogactiv.eu/2010/03...s-in-montenegro

Edited March 20, 2010 by Publicus

[Montenegrin]

The Republic of Montenegro adopted its extant constitution on 19 October 2007.

On Dec 15, 2008 Montenegro submitted an application for membership of the EU, which is pending and inactive due to Montenego's failures to address the country's status as a human trafficing route of transit.

This is apsolutly not true(it is nonsense).Application is very active and we will officialy become candidates until the end of year,most likely(EU englargment commissioner Stefan Fule who said that we are on our way) and become NATO members in 2012. at latest.I dont think you found this information on CIA(in fact I am preety sure you didnt or it is old info).It is true that we are targeted as one of the routes for trafficking,but nothing alarming-so is every other Balkan country including EU members Bulgaria and Romania.

Also Montenegro is not republic(it is,but its official name is just Montenegro and not Republic of Montenegro,it was before 2007. constitution).Any relevant institution(including CIA) will call us just Montenegro.

Cia world factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/mj.html

Germany, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands hold resevations about Montenegran accession to the EU, citing the European Commission Report in 2008 that Montenegro "lags behind in many fields" in respect to the conventional standards of EU accession, meaning therefore that "EU membership is not expected to occur in the near future." These countries hold reservations against Montenegran accession to the EU because of Montenegro's lacking ecological standards, failures to take action to stop the country's being a human trafficing transit route and due to its having pervasive corruption in its government to include especially its judicary.

Additionally, Montenegro has been criticized by domestic opposition leaders for issuing passports "to several persons who are on the Interpol Wanted Red List" and for "slowly becoming a safe ground [haven] for all those who need to escape justice and continue their large businesses." Most recently and in particular, Thaksin Shinawatra whose name "Thaksin Shinawatra" has been plastered on the front pages of Montenegran newspapers since March 10th. (No mention of a person named "Shinegra" in the Montenegran media.)

The Montenegran regime of Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic is described in local blogs as "one of the most corrupt in Europe" and that PM Djukanovic and "other high officials are accused and under investigation in Italian courts for tobbacco smuggling, money laundering and other criminal activities."

This is exactly the mob of national leaders and other gangsters Thaksin is at home with and that we would expect Thaksin the fugitive from Thai justice to associate with abroad. Protestations by Thaksin salesmen in Montenegro not withstanding, Thaksin in Montenegro is happily associating with criminal mobs and gangsters in government who are running a country whose accession to the EU is being blocked by major EU member states both large and small.

The European Council on 22 July 2009 presented the Montenegran government with a questionaire to further assess its application. On Dec 9, 2009 the Council stated that its opinion regarding the application of Montenegro to eventually join the EU "will be delivered during the course of 2010." NATO yes for strategic military reasons, but if I were in (or a) Montenegro, I realistically shouldn't be expecting much of the European Council's coming opinion.

http://www.montenegro.blogactiv.eu/2010/03...s-in-montenegro

I will only tell you that you are talking utter nonsense.You have no reliable sources for your claims(because there is none) and talking out of your head.Of course that we are criticized for many things,but are also commended for much more things(you will not write about this of course).Part of our opposition is not oposition to the goverment but to the country(they still dont want to acknowledge that Montenegro is independent) and are little bit frustrated that they can not win in elections(one of the leaders of opposition called for public protests,although he won 5% of votes in last elections).Lastly,if our prime minister Djukanovic is such criminal,how is it possible that he met Hilary Clinton,Josef Biden,Jonh MCCain,Silvio Berlusconi and presidents and prime ministers of France,Slovakia,Croatia and many other European countries,all in last couple of months?

For bolded-If European commision give positive opinion until the end of year,will you admit that you were talking nonsense?I will remind you when that happens.

[Montenegrin]

p.s. attacking Montenegro have nothing to do with the fact that Shinawatra and his allies won elections by great margins and were overtrown...twice.

[Publicus]

p.s. attacking Montenegro have nothing to do with the fact that Shinawatra and his allies won elections by great margins and were overtrown...twice.

Mr Kuhn Thaksin, you can't win in this endless mess you've put yourself in.....it's just impossible. Face it.

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as “shadow ruler” of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to “liquidate” Medojevic, and he described the attack as ”classic Mafia-style intimidation.”

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs’ trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to “stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic.” Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called “the most power person in Montenegro,” stating that “everything depends on him, even police actions.”

[old wanderer]

The part that totally baffles me How can any government claim when somebody gets in an airplane they don't know where they are going.

Nobody flys a jet without a flight plan, Any dummy sitting within a mile of airport with a $100 radio can listen to the clearance delivery frequency and hear the flight plan being broadcast to the aircraft in English or sometimes French before they taxi out for take-off.

Anybody that wanted to invest just a little time and money can do this. It is not encrypted. It is in plain language.

Even if I had an intellignece orginization with only a dozen people I could keep track to the wondering of the who Shiniwatra clan.

Try to get taxi clearance without a flight plan...and if you want a serious violation, call in sometime saying "This is gulfstream xxxxxx decending out of Flight Level 320 (that is 32,000 ft), request landing clearance....No flight plan no clearance.

Also nobody that is operating a charter aircraft is going to endanger there multi-million dollar investment for somebody that insist not to file a flight plan for a $20,000 charter...just is not going to happen.

So if Khun Thaskin did leave Montinegro, did he do it on a charter, or a commercial flight? If so where was that flight going?

Once you know the commercial flight number, or registration number of a charter aircraft, you can even get on the internet and look up the flight plan.

So I really reject the idea the Thaskin is so clandestine nobody knows where he comes and goes to.

[steveromagnino]

p.s. attacking Montenegro have nothing to do with the fact that Shinawatra and his allies won elections by great margins and were overtrown...twice.

care to publish the results for the PPP election, and show us this 'great margin' please?

Is it possible to believe that if someone is popular, then they are above the law?

For instance, I believe that Jennifer Anniston, is a smoking hottie. Especially as Rachel in the boobies episode; a friend from Hollywood has footage of her and apparently, to use a Seinfeld line, they are real and they are spectacular. Now even taking into account the ravages of time and gravity of which none of us, even Rachel Green, are immune... If she is caught killing someone OJ style, then she should be forgiven. Because she is very very popular. Does this seem fair to you?

Therefore, applying the same logic, if Thaksin is very popular in past elections, while he resigned from politics in 2006, then changed his mind, and has since been found guilty of corruption and the verdict seems fair to me (FWIIW) and since he refuses to come to court to face the other charges and demands that the Thai constitution be changed specifically ensuring his own pardon and amnesty for anything he did wrong, are you of the belief that he is therefore immune from prosecution solely on the basis that he has, with his allies, according to you won elections by great margins and overthrown twice? (again, I count once, the second time they were caught cheating - again, maybe that popularity theory kicks in - since they won so many seats, even though they cheated, it's ok, people voted for them)

As for flying around, he has a lot of cash; people with a lot of cash and their own planes can figure out ways to move around without issue; especially in countries that aren't perhaps as strict as Germany, Japan UK. I am pretty sure, based on him having long term rented an entire floor at the Burj Dubai, that he can afford a pretty fancy plane and a bit more than a 20k charter flight from some dodgy website.

So far my red shirt friends seem to skirt the issue of he's popular so he should be made innocent. It's a pretty tough sell that even a large amount of PR and Amartaya and so on talk struggles to mask. Especially when the talk of the Prai vs. Amartaya is the call for no double standards. Gets really tough to sell NO DOUBLE STANDARDS (except I want amnesty and a pardon...because I'm popular).

Now you might ask, what does this rant have to do with Montenegro.

Well, that's a good question.

Now let me answer that with another question.

Are you enjoying your evening?

Edited March 20, 2010 by steveromagnino

[elcent]

The part that totally baffles me How can any government claim when somebody gets in an airplane they don't know where they are going.

Nobody flys a jet without a flight plan, Any dummy sitting within a mile of airport with a $100 radio can listen to the clearance delivery frequency and hear the flight plan being broadcast to the aircraft in English or sometimes French before they taxi out for take-off.

Anybody that wanted to invest just a little time and money can do this. It is not encrypted. It is in plain language.

Even if I had an intellignece orginization with only a dozen people I could keep track to the wondering of the who Shiniwatra clan.

Try to get taxi clearance without a flight plan...and if you want a serious violation, call in sometime saying "This is gulfstream xxxxxx decending out of Flight Level 320 (that is 32,000 ft), request landing clearance....No flight plan no clearance.

Also nobody that is operating a charter aircraft is going to endanger there multi-million dollar investment for somebody that insist not to file a flight plan for a $20,000 charter...just is not going to happen.

So if Khun Thaskin did leave Montinegro, did he do it on a charter, or a commercial flight? If so where was that flight going?

Once you know the commercial flight number, or registration number of a charter aircraft, you can even get on the internet and look up the flight plan.

So I really reject the idea the Thaskin is so clandestine nobody knows where he comes and goes to.

You're on to something. They actually don't want him here. It's all a show.

[Publicus]

The part that totally baffles me How can any government claim when somebody gets in an airplane they don't know where they are going.

Nobody flys a jet without a flight plan, Any dummy sitting within a mile of airport with a $100 radio can listen to the clearance delivery frequency and hear the flight plan being broadcast to the aircraft in English or sometimes French before they taxi out for take-off.

Anybody that wanted to invest just a little time and money can do this. It is not encrypted. It is in plain language.

Even if I had an intellignece orginization with only a dozen people I could keep track to the wondering of the who Shiniwatra clan.

Try to get taxi clearance without a flight plan...and if you want a serious violation, call in sometime saying "This is gulfstream xxxxxx decending out of Flight Level 320 (that is 32,000 ft), request landing clearance....No flight plan no clearance.

Also nobody that is operating a charter aircraft is going to endanger there multi-million dollar investment for somebody that insist not to file a flight plan for a $20,000 charter...just is not going to happen.

So if Khun Thaskin did leave Montinegro, did he do it on a charter, or a commercial flight? If so where was that flight going?

Once you know the commercial flight number, or registration number of a charter aircraft, you can even get on the internet and look up the flight plan.

So I really reject the idea the Thaskin is so clandestine nobody knows where he comes and goes to.

You're on to something. They actually don't want him here. It's all a show.

Shhhhhh, that's the unspoken open, top, well known secret.

It's revealing and lucidly instructive of the culture that the FM goes out of its way to appear inept and incompetent, to give the misimpression to the public that the FM is lost in the absolute in this matter of Thaksin's location. The CIA does the same thing, publicly appearing to be inept and incompetent. The tactic is to deceive the enemy/opposition, which is a tactic as old as conflict and, ultimately, as old as warfare itself.

Even the if the Reds suddenly had Thaksin appear before them, they'd shit their pants and run around in hysterical circles.

[Montenegrin]

p.s. attacking Montenegro have nothing to do with the fact that Shinawatra and his allies won elections by great margins and were overtrown...twice.

care to publish the results for the PPP election, and show us this 'great margin' please?

Is it possible to believe that if someone is popular, then they are above the law?

For instance, I believe that Jennifer Anniston, is a smoking hottie. Especially as Rachel in the boobies episode; a friend from Hollywood has footage of her and apparently, to use a Seinfeld line, they are real and they are spectacular. Now even taking into account the ravages of time and gravity of which none of us, even Rachel Green, are immune... If she is caught killing someone OJ style, then she should be forgiven. Because she is very very popular. Does this seem fair to you?

Therefore, applying the same logic, if Thaksin is very popular in past elections, while he resigned from politics in 2006, then changed his mind, and has since been found guilty of corruption and the verdict seems fair to me (FWIIW) and since he refuses to come to court to face the other charges and demands that the Thai constitution be changed specifically ensuring his own pardon and amnesty for anything he did wrong, are you of the belief that he is therefore immune from prosecution solely on the basis that he has, with his allies, according to you won elections by great margins and overthrown twice? (again, I count once, the second time they were caught cheating - again, maybe that popularity theory kicks in - since they won so many seats, even though they cheated, it's ok, people voted for them)

As for flying around, he has a lot of cash; people with a lot of cash and their own planes can figure out ways to move around without issue; especially in countries that aren't perhaps as strict as Germany, Japan UK. I am pretty sure, based on him having long term rented an entire floor at the Burj Dubai, that he can afford a pretty fancy plane and a bit more than a 20k charter flight from some dodgy website.

So far my red shirt friends seem to skirt the issue of he's popular so he should be made innocent. It's a pretty tough sell that even a large amount of PR and Amartaya and so on talk struggles to mask. Especially when the talk of the Prai vs. Amartaya is the call for no double standards. Gets really tough to sell NO DOUBLE STANDARDS (except I want amnesty and a pardon...because I'm popular).

Now you might ask, what does this rant have to do with Montenegro.

Well, that's a good question.

Now let me answer that with another question.

Are you enjoying your evening?

Great-I agree with you on almost everything you wrote,BUT-what will happen if in next elections Thaksin's allies win again?What if they find irregularities again and depose them?It will be to much,I am afraid.To be honest,I dont care and this is not my problem.I was just curious and it will be interesting to see how this end up.I see that your main arguments are that Thaksin supporters are stupid,bought and that they dont know what is best for them.I just know that before Thaksin they didnt even have proper healthcare system and education-thats enough for me to understand what these "elitists" are about.I see that most of you are from western democracies and I cant understand you,to be honest.Its like if in USA Obama is deposed in then Biden who would replace him is also deposed and at the end democratic party is banned.People always has its own at the end-thats all I know.

[Montenegrin]

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as "shadow ruler" of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to "liquidate" Medojevic, and he described the attack as "classic Mafia-style intimidation."

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs' trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to "stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic." Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called "the most power person in Montenegro," stating that "everything depends on him, even police actions."

Then,shame on USA vicepresident and secretary of state for supporting criminal:

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2010/01/21/nb-04

Opposition interpreted that as warning from USA that Djukanovic must resign.Than opposition leaders went to Washington and met with lower staff members-Ilona Telekiif you ever heard of her) highest positioned of them all.Serbian media for some reason supported one of Montenegrin opposition leaders Nebojsa Medojevic who won 5% on last elections.In the end Medojevic sued B92(newspapers you cited above) and said that they are payed by Djukanovic and mafia.All of this becouse they discovered that wanted alleged criminal Stanko Subotic is in fact in Geneva(Switzerland) and Medojevic said earlier that he is hiding in Montenegro,thus proving Medojevic lied.Also Subotic acused Medojevic of taking money from him earlier.Medojevic goes around acusing virtualy everybody,including all Montenegrin people after last elections calling him stupid for not voting for him.He is very offten demanted by those who he cite as sources including German ammbasy when he said that Germany will block Montenegro if Djukanovic does not step down.German ambasador said that this is simply not true and that it is not German stance.There are number of such examples.Sometimes I doubt that he is working for rulling coalition becouse he is making unbeliveably stupid moves.But ok-he can do whatever he wants-I think that he will never come close winning elections with this approach.If he does succeeds,then good luck to him.

Not to be understood wrong-we do have many problems-in justice system especialy,but when compared with 10 years ago when we were in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia together with Serbia,under internacional sanctions and bombed by NATO(although in much lesser extent than Serbia) then it is incrediable move forward.

[Ice123]

The Republic of Montenegro adopted its extant constitution on 19 October 2007.

The country formerly was the People's Republic of Montenegro, before that the Socialist Republic of Montenegro. It's population is 672,180, which is about the population of the Bangkok District of Yannawa.

GDP of Montenegro is USD $4.4 billion, which means Thaksin could buy half the country today. Montenegro is heavility reliant on tourism and, especially, the aluminum industry.

On Dec 15, 2008 Montenegro submitted an application for membership of the EU, which is pending and inactive due to Montenego's failures to address the country's status as a human trafficing route of transit.

The leading advocate of Montenegran membership of the EU is the UK which has keen interests in business investments.

www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mj.html

1. Are you spamming just for fun?

2. You are citing none sense. Montenegro answers the Eu questions, which are given to every EU candidat applicant. It will probably become offical candidat for EU at end of this year, and NATO member 2012.

3. You are quoting 2008 info, welcome to 2010

4. GDP is $6.955 , and PPP (which is showing economy power) is $11,110, which is higher than Thai's.

5. Before it was Socliastic Republic within Yugoslavia, it was Kingdom of Montenegro, Zeta, Duklja. Don't try to teach my countries history.

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as “shadow ruler” of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to “liquidate” Medojevic, and he described the attack as ”classic Mafia-style intimidation.”

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs’ trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to “stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic.” Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called “the most power person in Montenegro,” stating that “everything depends on him, even police actions.”

He wasn't attacked physically, but verbally. He is making political points, and Serbian media helping him doing that. Also let's compare some things here:

Montenegro vs Thailand

Transparency International:

69 - 84

Human Development Index:

65 - 87

Fail state index:

Moderate - Warning

etc...

Why are you putting Thai is some superior to Montenegro, or that we are banana republic?

Edited March 20, 2010 by Ice123

[Publicus]

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as "shadow ruler" of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to "liquidate" Medojevic, and he described the attack as "classic Mafia-style intimidation."

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs' trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to "stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic." Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called "the most power person in Montenegro," stating that "everything depends on him, even police actions."

Then,shame on USA vicepresident and secretary of state for supporting criminal:

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2010/01/21/nb-04

Opposition interpreted that as warning from USA that Djukanovic must resign.Than opposition leaders went to Washington and met with lower staff members-Ilona Telekiif you ever heard of her) highest positioned of them all.Serbian media for some reason supported one of Montenegrin opposition leaders Nebojsa Medojevic who won 5% on last elections.In the end Medojevic sued B92(newspapers you cited above) and said that they are payed by Djukanovic and mafia.All of this becouse they discovered that wanted alleged criminal Stanko Subotic is in fact in Geneva(Switzerland) and Medojevic said earlier that he is hiding in Montenegro,thus proving Medojevic lied.Also Subotic acused Medojevic of taking money from him earlier.Medojevic goes around acusing virtualy everybody,including all Montenegrin people after last elections calling him stupid for not voting for him.He is very offten demanted by those who he cite as sources including German ammbasy when he said that Germany will block Montenegro if Djukanovic does not step down.German ambasador said that this is simply not true and that it is not German stance.There are number of such examples.Sometimes I doubt that he is working for rulling coalition becouse he is making unbeliveably stupid moves.But ok-he can do whatever he wants-I think that he will never come close winning elections with this approach.If he does succeeds,then good luck to him.

Not to be understood wrong-we do have many problems-in justice system especialy,but when compared with 10 years ago when we were in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia together with Serbia,under internacional sanctions and bombed by NATO(although in much lesser extent than Serbia) then it is incrediable move forward.

After reading this post about your sorry country, if you want Thaksin Shinawat/Shinatra, not only should have him, you most certainly deserve him and believe us he'll be a perfect fit right at home in your rats' nest and I'm sure you'll be tickled pink about it.

You say the USA and the EU had to have cleared Thaksin's entry to Montenegro and the Montenegran passport to Thaksin but then you say the US was expressing its view (presumably through its Montenegro desk at DEPSTATE) that your PM Djukanovic needed to change careers, probably most desirably to a sidewalk vendor. You admit your courts and justice sytem is, to be kind, poor. You confirm the opposition of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany to Montenegro's application to EU member state status, tho you say the German ambassador to your country denies Germany's leading role in blocking your accession (diplomatic double talk by European governments is hardly a news bulletin). I saw the report that Germany, France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are interposing themselves in the Montenegran EU accession matter both of their own choosing and on the behalf of so many other EU member states.

Did the parade of some dozen Western leaders of governments to which you refer who recently met with your blackjack PM Djukanovic, to include the US SECSTATE Clinton and the VPOTUS Biden among so many others, arrive bearing gifts or did they arrive carrying evidence of Djukanovic's criminal activities? You're repeatedly trying to say the EU will admit a gangster mafioso state as a new member?!? Do you take meds?

Your posts defending and apolozgizing for the mafioso owners of your country's economy is better understandable when we read your posts welcoming the corrupt criminal Thaksin to your land. However, you don't only welcome Thaksin effusively - you spent all of your first posts to TVF praising Thaksin as PM and trying to defend the convicted fugitive PM while also pleading his cause in Thailand. Indeed, you state the Thaksin line chapter and verse. Yet you haven't said a syllable as to what Thaksin can or could do for your country, or of what you might hope and work to see Thaksin do for your country. Your focus is on defending Thaksin, the former PM fugitive convict of Thailand, and yapping as to how Thailand would be so much better off with the Great Divider Thaksin back in power in the country that Thaksin is interminibly dissembling. That you don't at all speak to how you could envisage Thaksin contributing to your country speaks volumes as to your purposes, motivations and and aims.

You and your gangster mafioso society and country are a whopper of a piece of work. The government there is well known for the dubious distinction of handing out passports to wealthy convicted swlindlers who are escaping and evading justice and who are in the pursuit of their ill gained and corrupt corporate interests.

[Ice123]

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as "shadow ruler" of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to "liquidate" Medojevic, and he described the attack as "classic Mafia-style intimidation."

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs' trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to "stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic." Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called "the most power person in Montenegro," stating that "everything depends on him, even police actions."

Then,shame on USA vicepresident and secretary of state for supporting criminal:

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2010/01/21/nb-04

Opposition interpreted that as warning from USA that Djukanovic must resign.Than opposition leaders went to Washington and met with lower staff members-Ilona Telekiif you ever heard of her) highest positioned of them all.Serbian media for some reason supported one of Montenegrin opposition leaders Nebojsa Medojevic who won 5% on last elections.In the end Medojevic sued B92(newspapers you cited above) and said that they are payed by Djukanovic and mafia.All of this becouse they discovered that wanted alleged criminal Stanko Subotic is in fact in Geneva(Switzerland) and Medojevic said earlier that he is hiding in Montenegro,thus proving Medojevic lied.Also Subotic acused Medojevic of taking money from him earlier.Medojevic goes around acusing virtualy everybody,including all Montenegrin people after last elections calling him stupid for not voting for him.He is very offten demanted by those who he cite as sources including German ammbasy when he said that Germany will block Montenegro if Djukanovic does not step down.German ambasador said that this is simply not true and that it is not German stance.There are number of such examples.Sometimes I doubt that he is working for rulling coalition becouse he is making unbeliveably stupid moves.But ok-he can do whatever he wants-I think that he will never come close winning elections with this approach.If he does succeeds,then good luck to him.

Not to be understood wrong-we do have many problems-in justice system especialy,but when compared with 10 years ago when we were in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia together with Serbia,under internacional sanctions and bombed by NATO(although in much lesser extent than Serbia) then it is incrediable move forward.

After reading this post about your sorry country, if you want Thaksin Shinawat/Shinatra, not only should have him, you most certainly deserve him and believe us he'll be a perfect fit right at home in your rats' nest and I'm sure you'll be tickled pink about it.

You say the USA and the EU had to have cleared Thaksin's entry to Montenegro and the Montenegran passport to Thaksin but then you say the US was expressing its view (presumably through its Montenegro desk at DEPSTATE) that your PM Djukanovic needed to change careers, probably most desirably to a sidewalk vendor. You admit your courts and justice sytem is, to be kind, poor. You confirm the opposition of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany to Montenegro's application to EU member state status, tho you say the German ambassador to your country denies Germany's leading role in blocking your accession (diplomatic double talk by European governments is hardly a news bulletin). I saw the report that Germany, France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are interposing themselves in the Montenegran EU accession matter both of their own choosing and on the behalf of so many other EU member states.

Did the parade of some dozen Western leaders of governments to which you refer who recently met with your blackjack PM Djukanovic, to include the US SECSTATE Clinton and the VPOTUS Biden among so many others, arrive bearing gifts or did they arrive carrying evidence of Djukanovic's criminal activities? You're repeatedly trying to say the EU will admit a gangster mafioso state as a new member?!? Do you take meds?

Your posts defending and apolozgizing for the mafioso owners of your country's economy is better understandable when we read your posts welcoming the corrupt criminal Thaksin to your land. However, you don't only welcome Thaksin effusively - you spent all of your first posts to TVF praising Thaksin as PM and trying to defend the convicted fugitive PM while also pleading his cause in Thailand. Indeed, you state the Thaksin line chapter and verse. Yet you haven't said a syllable as to what Thaksin can or could do for your country, or of what you might hope and work to see Thaksin do for your country. Your focus is on defending Thaksin, the former PM fugitive convict of Thailand, and yapping as to how Thailand would be so much better off with the Great Divider Thaksin back in power in the country that Thaksin is interminibly dissembling. That you don't at all speak to how you could envisage Thaksin contributing to your country speaks volumes as to your purposes, motivations and and aims.

You and your gangster mafioso society and country are a whopper of a piece of work. The government there is well known for the dubious distinction of handing out passports to wealthy convicted swlindlers who are escaping and evading justice and who are in the pursuit of their ill gained and corrupt corporate interests.

What a bull s***. Criminal country? I just showed you the rankings of international organizations, and your country is ranked worst on every of them. You saw the opinion of Germany, Spain, Belgium and Netherlands? Who are you? Do you work in Brussels, since you seem to have some info we don't. Also I will remember this crap you posted here, and when Montenegro becomes the candidate, make you eat your words out. This forum won't go anywhere, and you will see what will happen in December. This won't be the first time Montenegrin haters eat their words they post, and won't be the last.

[mazeltov]

Thaksin will be very much at home here:

*****************************************************

Dark times for Montenegrin democracy: Opposition leader attacked on the street, freedom of speech on internet threatened, accusations for not cooperating on regional war on crimes…

Posted by Montenegro Open on 02/03/10

Tags: attack, crime, democracy, Medojevic, Montenegro, opposition, Prime Minister

Last few weeks have shown the real face of Montenegrin political system once again. Opposition leader Mr Nebojsa Medojevic was attacked on the street because he publicly spoke about top crime boss in Montenegro, whom he accused to have power over Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic. The police arrested the perpetrator, who is said to be family-related to an individual whom Mr Medojevic declared as "shadow ruler" of Montenegro. The attacker threatened to "liquidate" Medojevic, and he described the attack as "classic Mafia-style intimidation."

Opposition recently launched a strong critic of Prime Minister, Milo Djukanovic, accusing him of protecting organized crime, especially those dealing with illegal drugs' trade.

Serbian B92 reported that Medojevic was attacked by an unidentified person of about 30 years of age, who attempted to strike him and told him to "stop mentioning Branislav Micunovic." Micunovic is a wealthy and very influential businessman, whom Medojevic has called "the most power person in Montenegro," stating that "everything depends on him, even police actions."

Then,shame on USA vicepresident and secretary of state for supporting criminal:

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/newsbriefs/2010/01/21/nb-04

Opposition interpreted that as warning from USA that Djukanovic must resign.Than opposition leaders went to Washington and met with lower staff members-Ilona Telekiif you ever heard of her) highest positioned of them all.Serbian media for some reason supported one of Montenegrin opposition leaders Nebojsa Medojevic who won 5% on last elections.In the end Medojevic sued B92(newspapers you cited above) and said that they are payed by Djukanovic and mafia.All of this becouse they discovered that wanted alleged criminal Stanko Subotic is in fact in Geneva(Switzerland) and Medojevic said earlier that he is hiding in Montenegro,thus proving Medojevic lied.Also Subotic acused Medojevic of taking money from him earlier.Medojevic goes around acusing virtualy everybody,including all Montenegrin people after last elections calling him stupid for not voting for him.He is very offten demanted by those who he cite as sources including German ammbasy when he said that Germany will block Montenegro if Djukanovic does not step down.German ambasador said that this is simply not true and that it is not German stance.There are number of such examples.Sometimes I doubt that he is working for rulling coalition becouse he is making unbeliveably stupid moves.But ok-he can do whatever he wants-I think that he will never come close winning elections with this approach.If he does succeeds,then good luck to him.

Not to be understood wrong-we do have many problems-in justice system especialy,but when compared with 10 years ago when we were in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia together with Serbia,under internacional sanctions and bombed by NATO(although in much lesser extent than Serbia) then it is incrediable move forward.

After reading this post about your sorry country, if you want Thaksin Shinawat/Shinatra, not only should have him, you most certainly deserve him and believe us he'll be a perfect fit right at home in your rats' nest and I'm sure you'll be tickled pink about it.

You say the USA and the EU had to have cleared Thaksin's entry to Montenegro and the Montenegran passport to Thaksin but then you say the US was expressing its view (presumably through its Montenegro desk at DEPSTATE) that your PM Djukanovic needed to change careers, probably most desirably to a sidewalk vendor. You admit your courts and justice sytem is, to be kind, poor. You confirm the opposition of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany to Montenegro's application to EU member state status, tho you say the German ambassador to your country denies Germany's leading role in blocking your accession (diplomatic double talk by European governments is hardly a news bulletin). I saw the report that Germany, France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are interposing themselves in the Montenegran EU accession matter both of their own choosing and on the behalf of so many other EU member states.

Did the parade of some dozen Western leaders of governments to which you refer who recently met with your blackjack PM Djukanovic, to include the US SECSTATE Clinton and the VPOTUS Biden among so many others, arrive bearing gifts or did they arrive carrying evidence of Djukanovic's criminal activities? You're repeatedly trying to say the EU will admit a gangster mafioso state as a new member?!? Do you take meds?

Your posts defending and apolozgizing for the mafioso owners of your country's economy is better understandable when we read your posts welcoming the corrupt criminal Thaksin to your land. However, you don't only welcome Thaksin effusively - you spent all of your first posts to TVF praising Thaksin as PM and trying to defend the convicted fugitive PM while also pleading his cause in Thailand. Indeed, you state the Thaksin line chapter and verse. Yet you haven't said a syllable as to what Thaksin can or could do for your country, or of what you might hope and work to see Thaksin do for your country. Your focus is on defending Thaksin, the former PM fugitive convict of Thailand, and yapping as to how Thailand would be so much better off with the Great Divider Thaksin back in power in the country that Thaksin is interminibly dissembling. That you don't at all speak to how you could envisage Thaksin contributing to your country speaks volumes as to your purposes, motivations and and aims.

You and your gangster mafioso society and country are a whopper of a piece of work. The government there is well known for the dubious distinction of handing out passports to wealthy convicted swlindlers who are escaping and evading justice and who are in the pursuit of their ill gained and corrupt corporate interests.

your superiority complex stinks.

I am a Montenegrin.

[ThaksinKharma]

I am a Montenegrin.

for this week anyway, eh?

Edited March 21, 2010 by ThaksinKharma

[Montenegrin]

After reading this post about your sorry country, if you want Thaksin Shinawat/Shinatra, not only should have him, you most certainly deserve him and believe us he'll be a perfect fit right at home in your rats' nest and I'm sure you'll be tickled pink about it.

You say the USA and the EU had to have cleared Thaksin's entry to Montenegro and the Montenegran passport to Thaksin but then you say the US was expressing its view (presumably through its Montenegro desk at DEPSTATE) that your PM Djukanovic needed to change careers, probably most desirably to a sidewalk vendor. You admit your courts and justice sytem is, to be kind, poor. You confirm the opposition of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany to Montenegro's application to EU member state status, tho you say the German ambassador to your country denies Germany's leading role in blocking your accession (diplomatic double talk by European governments is hardly a news bulletin). I saw the report that Germany, France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands are interposing themselves in the Montenegran EU accession matter both of their own choosing and on the behalf of so many other EU member states.

Did the parade of some dozen Western leaders of governments to which you refer who recently met with your blackjack PM Djukanovic, to include the US SECSTATE Clinton and the VPOTUS Biden among so many others, arrive bearing gifts or did they arrive carrying evidence of Djukanovic's criminal activities? You're repeatedly trying to say the EU will admit a gangster mafioso state as a new member?!? Do you take meds?

Your posts defending and apolozgizing for the mafioso owners of your country's economy is better understandable when we read your posts welcoming the corrupt criminal Thaksin to your land. However, you don't only welcome Thaksin effusively - you spent all of your first posts to TVF praising Thaksin as PM and trying to defend the convicted fugitive PM while also pleading his cause in Thailand. Indeed, you state the Thaksin line chapter and verse. Yet you haven't said a syllable as to what Thaksin can or could do for your country, or of what you might hope and work to see Thaksin do for your country. Your focus is on defending Thaksin, the former PM fugitive convict of Thailand, and yapping as to how Thailand would be so much better off with the Great Divider Thaksin back in power in the country that Thaksin is interminibly dissembling. That you don't at all speak to how you could envisage Thaksin contributing to your country speaks volumes as to your purposes, motivations and and aims.

You and your gangster mafioso society and country are a whopper of a piece of work. The government there is well known for the dubious distinction of handing out passports to wealthy convicted swlindlers who are escaping and evading justice and who are in the pursuit of their ill gained and corrupt corporate interests.

Well,like somebody said-opinions are like <deleted>,everybody has one.

Your last post is best proof for that.

I see that you are ill-minded and there is no sane conversation with people like you

You are reverting my words,tell me that I admit something that I didnt(I hope that evidents against Thaksin were not collected in the same manner),trying to provoke me ...Sorry,no can do.

I will not bother myself arguing with you about things you know nothing about.Also,you like...how to put it nicely...go around the truth.

If you are typical representative of anti-Taksinist then I am very sorry for Thai people

But luckly,you are foreigner in Thailand-I doubt that you are represent of great Thai people in which I see some similarities with Montenegrins esspecialy in fact that they resisted foreign powers and were the only nation in that part of the world never to become colony.Great respect and I hope that they will think twice who are they letting in in future.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Montenegrin

[brahmburgers]

what will happen if in next elections Thaksin's allies win again?

First off, let's hope it's a relatively fair election, without massive pay-offs and without voting booths that are not private. If T's allies win, fine. The all Thais have to find a way to make the best of it.

Thais need to learn:

A. What a fair election is.

B. How to campaign (without fears of lawsuits for character defamation - something T was renown for). Also how to have open debates and (gasp!) open community meetings to discuss issues.

C. To accept the outcome of an election, even if it's not to their liking. There's always another election cycle - for them to campaign and try to get their favored people in the power seats.

Sorry this thread has devolved to debating the decency of Montenegro, though being a tiny country nestled between Italy and former Yugoslavia (neither known for their decency), it's not surprising such crap hits the fan.

Even Montenegro defenders have to admit Thaksin is a dark manipulator who is naturally attracted to the same sorts of mafia types. Look at where he's been hanging his hat in recent years: Cambodia, Nicaragua, Ugunda, Liberia (blood diamonds, anyone?). Ok, perhaps not 'hanging his hat' but certainly promising big amounts of investment money, in exchange for photo ops and being liked/taken seriously.

[mazeltov]

I am a Montenegrin.

for this week anyway, eh?

i see you understand what i mean.

[mazeltov]

Sorry this thread has devolved to debating the decency of Montenegro, though being a tiny country nestled between Italy and former Yugoslavia (neither known for their decency), it's not surprising such crap hits the fan.

Even Montenegro defenders have to admit Thaksin is a dark manipulator who is naturally attracted to the same sorts of mafia types. Look at where he's been hanging his hat in recent years: Cambodia, Nicaragua, Ugunda, Liberia (blood diamonds, anyone?).

and where you are coming from?

[Thai at Heart]

what will happen if in next elections Thaksin's allies win again?

First off, let's hope it's a relatively fair election, without massive pay-offs and without voting booths that are not private. If T's allies win, fine. The all Thais have to find a way to make the best of it.

Thais need to learn:

A. What a fair election is.

B. How to campaign (without fears of lawsuits for character defamation - something T was renown for). Also how to have open debates and (gasp!) open community meetings to discuss issues.

C. To accept the outcome of an election, even if it's not to their liking. There's always another election cycle - for them to campaign and try to get their favored people in the power seats.

Sorry this thread has devolved to debating the decency of Montenegro, though being a tiny country nestled between Italy and former Yugoslavia (neither known for their decency), it's not surprising such crap hits the fan.

Even Montenegro defenders have to admit Thaksin is a dark manipulator who is naturally attracted to the same sorts of mafia types. Look at where he's been hanging his hat in recent years: Cambodia, Nicaragua, Ugunda, Liberia (blood diamonds, anyone?). Ok, perhaps not 'hanging his hat' but certainly promising big amounts of investment money, in exchange for photo ops and being liked/taken seriously.

I would suggest that the main problem is that the army hasn't yet learnt after 70 odd years to accept an election.

Even worse, the people have worked out, that if the army can simply throw a tantrum and get rid of a government, a minority of the people can too vis a vis PAD and UDD.

[way2muchcoffee]

I would suggest that the main problem is that the army hasn't yet learnt after 70 odd years to accept an election.

Even worse, the people have worked out, that if the army can simply throw a tantrum and get rid of a government, a minority of the people can too vis a vis PAD and UDD.

On the face of it I would agree. However there is a very real question that must be addressed. Here's the scenario:

A very corrupt man is PM. He has enormous support amongst large segments of the population. He breaks the law with impunity. He engages in vote buying and party buying on an unprecedented scale. He steals billions of tax payer money to line his and his friends pockets. He commits massive human rights violations. He engages in widespread policy corruption and kickbacks. He plants corrupt judges into the judiciary. He plants staunch loyalists into positions of power in the police and military. He denies freedom of speech by refusing to answer questions that would cast him in a critical light and by silencing critics in the media through frivolous lawsuits. In short he is building a dictatorship where he is immune from any of the traditional ways of removing a PM from power.

How should a country remove such a leader?

Which is worse for a democracy, a coup to remove a corrupt and criminal leader, or to allow the leader to continue to rape the country for personal profit while trampling on all democratic checks and balances?

Edited March 21, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[brahmburgers]

I would suggest that the main problem is that the army hasn't yet learnt after 70 odd years to accept an election.

Even worse, the people have worked out, that if the army can simply throw a tantrum and get rid of a government, a minority of the people can too vis a vis PAD and UDD.

On the face of it I would agree. However there is a very real question that must be addressed. Here's the scenario:

A very corrupt man is PM. He has enormous support amongst large segments of the population. He continues to break the law. He engages in vote buying and party buying on an unprecedented scale. He steals billions of tax payer money to line his and his friends pockets. He commits massive human rights violations. He engages in widespread policy corruption and kickbacks. He plants corrupt judges into the judiciary. He plants staunch loyalists into positions of power in the police and military. He denies freedom of speech by refusing to answer questions that would cast him in a critical light and by silencing critics in the media through frivolous lawsuits. In short he is building a dictatorship where he is immune from any of the traditional ways of removing a PM from power.

How should a country remove such a leader? Which is worse for a democracy, a coup to remove a corrupt and criminal leader, or to allow the leader to continue to rape the country for personal profit while trampling on all democratic checks and balances?

I agree. As much as I dislike coup d'etats, I think they're warranted in extreme abuse cases, as you mentioned.

I also don't like people cutting me open with knives, but in an extreme situation, where I had shrapnel or a life-threatening cancerous tumor that needed to be excised, I would choose to be sliced open.

[bendejo]

Does this mean Taksin cannot go to Malaysia?

Montenegro citizens are PNG there.

[Ricardo]

your superiority complex stinks.

I am a Montenegrin.

Of course you are p_d.

So how many fingers/thumbs away, are Greece or Italy from Montenegro, then ?

[animatic]

p.s. attacking Montenegro have nothing to do with the fact that Shinawatra and his allies won elections by great margins and were overtrown...twice.

care to publish the results for the PPP election, and show us this 'great margin' please?

Is it possible to believe that if someone is popular, then they are above the law?

For instance, I believe that Jennifer Anniston, is a smoking hottie. Especially as Rachel in the boobies episode; a friend from Hollywood has footage of her and apparently, to use a Seinfeld line, they are real and they are spectacular. Now even taking into account the ravages of time and gravity of which none of us, even Rachel Green, are immune... If she is caught killing someone OJ style, then she should be forgiven. Because she is very very popular. Does this seem fair to you?

Therefore, applying the same logic, if Thaksin is very popular in past elections, while he resigned from politics in 2006, then changed his mind, and has since been found guilty of corruption and the verdict seems fair to me (FWIIW) and since he refuses to come to court to face the other charges and demands that the Thai constitution be changed specifically ensuring his own pardon and amnesty for anything he did wrong, are you of the belief that he is therefore immune from prosecution solely on the basis that he has, with his allies, according to you won elections by great margins and overthrown twice? (again, I count once, the second time they were caught cheating - again, maybe that popularity theory kicks in - since they won so many seats, even though they cheated, it's ok, people voted for them)

As for flying around, he has a lot of cash; people with a lot of cash and their own planes can figure out ways to move around without issue; especially in countries that aren't perhaps as strict as Germany, Japan UK. I am pretty sure, based on him having long term rented an entire floor at the Burj Dubai, that he can afford a pretty fancy plane and a bit more than a 20k charter flight from some dodgy website.

So far my red shirt friends seem to skirt the issue of he's popular so he should be made innocent. It's a pretty tough sell that even a large amount of PR and Amartaya and so on talk struggles to mask. Especially when the talk of the Prai vs. Amartaya is the call for no double standards. Gets really tough to sell NO DOUBLE STANDARDS (except I want amnesty and a pardon...because I'm popular).

Now you might ask, what does this rant have to do with Montenegro.

Well, that's a good question.

Now let me answer that with another question.

Are you enjoying your evening?

Another clear and spot on logical post.

How can one consider popularity as a get out of jail free card.

And then be against double standards?

Sorry this is a dichotomy too far, for reasonable people to reach.

[yoshiwara]

3 questions:

1. Is Branislav Micunovic the equivalent of Thaksin in Montenegro re economic corruption?

2. How many meetings has Thaksin had with Branislav Micunovic?

3. What agreements have been made?

[Ice123]

what will happen if in next elections Thaksin's allies win again?

First off, let's hope it's a relatively fair election, without massive pay-offs and without voting booths that are not private. If T's allies win, fine. The all Thais have to find a way to make the best of it.

Thais need to learn:

A. What a fair election is.

B. How to campaign (without fears of lawsuits for character defamation - something T was renown for). Also how to have open debates and (gasp!) open community meetings to discuss issues.

C. To accept the outcome of an election, even if it's not to their liking. There's always another election cycle - for them to campaign and try to get their favored people in the power seats.

Sorry this thread has devolved to debating the decency of Montenegro, though being a tiny country nestled between Italy and former Yugoslavia (neither known for their decency), it's not surprising such crap hits the fan.

Even Montenegro defenders have to admit Thaksin is a dark manipulator who is naturally attracted to the same sorts of mafia types. Look at where he's been hanging his hat in recent years: Cambodia, Nicaragua, Ugunda, Liberia (blood diamonds, anyone?). Ok, perhaps not 'hanging his hat' but certainly promising big amounts of investment money, in exchange for photo ops and being liked/taken seriously.

I don't know is he a manipulator or not, I am more defending the state it self here, as anti-Thaksin here want to show Montenegro as some criminal country, probably not because of their hate, but rather because that country gave the citizenship to him.

[Ice123]

Does this mean Taksin cannot go to Malaysia?

Montenegro citizens are PNG there.

They are what? Well you need visa to go there, you can get it in any Malaysian embassy.