Thai Red Shirts Declare 'Class War'

[mythBuster]

For those who did not understood the conflict, it ALWAYS was a class war. Thai journalists do not seem to grasp or do not want to grasp that it is not only about Thaksin. The defunct communist party is involved as much as other people. Problem is that they need to overthrow the bureaucracy in order to succeed. As long as the privy council, the military and the bureaucracy keep holding each other Thailand will not change.

It is not about Thaksin, Thaksin is at the very best the scapegoat, who was the face of the movement that tried to modernize Thailand. Modernizing means however losing power to the people and sharing your absurd richness with the poorest of the poor. Given the fact that Thaksin reformed healthcare, reformed the school system in a way that even the underclass had the possibility and rights to attend top universities it always was about class.

The elite however have never bothered to think beyond tomorrow. They assumed that they could keep on paying the poor 4 dollar a day and refuse to give their vote the same value as theirs. Unfortunately for them it is impossible to put the toothpaste that came out of the tube in the tube again. There is no way back and as long as the elitist yellow shirt movement keep on scoffing and spitting on the poor. (Less votes for them, calling them uneducated, calling the stupid) there will be not really a peaceful solution in sight. History has proved that the people always win. The choice is really up to the old power base of the rich and influential if the transition of power is peaceful or bloody.

[steveromagnino]

to win a class war first requires a working class hero.

Therefore, for a real class war to commence, to truly begin with an agenda of equality for the future; it requires that the red shirts start letting go, somewhat, of the obsession with Thaksin alone and offering a new leader that has a rural agenda. I look around and I am blank who this could possibly be. A person who can bring together the financing side of the business families, with the street smarts of a gangster to lock in the rural godfathers using that business money which will be absolutely mandatory if they don't have a leader with such personality as to be able to actually acheive what no Thai politician has ever done, to get around the rural godfathers, and then the business support to win Bangkok and the cities.

In total agreement, well said, but who is going to take or be offered the baton?

dunno. really don't which is why I am so sad when I was talking to some of the red shirters yesterday.

I wish they had a leader, a real leader, to look up to. And I see no one.

Anyhow, if nothing else, maybe if they give all protesters and Thaksin a copy of what I write, then they will all be so bored after reading it, that they all agree to let me run things for a bit ' give the lad a run at old trafford' so to speak. I bet some people thought they were getting news in this thread, instead I've given them poorly written war and peace. Sorry 'bout that. I like me keyboard. Anyhow, I got rid of some space, so it is slightly shorter ok!

Edited March 18, 2010 by steveromagnino

[TAWP]

Don't forget friends that the majority of Thais voted PPP in two elections

No, they didn't. The majority win was one election, out of the 3 latest. The other two demanded coalitions.

[mythBuster]

Just now watching on television some of the Red Shirt women cooking in big pots. Maybe they are doing some good afterall. There may not be any more mangy soi dogs running loose in the streets of Bangkok.

What a racist statement

more like chauvanistic comment than racist

a statement of someone who believes too that he or she is smarter than others. It is denigrating, probably made by a teacher without the right papers.

[ovaltina]

As 'class wars' go , I take "Battle Royale" more seriously than the reds etc. At least it is well acted by comparison.

[dobadoy]

History has proved that the people always win.

that's cos history is written by the winners for the people, to keep them in line...hardly gonna say 'you lost, we won' now are they?

Care to name a country where 'the poor' have won and are no longer poor relative to a ruling class? No...thought not

Trotskyist tripe.

[dcfc2007]

a class war lead by thaksin the billionaire hardly che guevara and the 26th of july movement.

[connel707]

I Guess Mr. T would not be a part of the Elite Class they are struggling against.

From my 17 years of watching Thai Politics , it has always been about anything BUT helping the Poor, hence , they are still Poor.

It all has to do with who you know or what you have.

GREED ??

I wonder , do these people know what HYPOCRITES are ?

Can somebody pay everyone to go home please ?

It does not matter who is in power here Greed and Corruption rules.

Bloomberg has this country for 10 years as one of the most corrupt country in Asia 8 years they where #1 the other 2 #2

This guy right now was born not with a silver spoon in his mouth

but platinum and diamonds hanging all over him, talk about spoiled elite,

he has not idea how some have to live in Issan or any place else .

We all should try to live on 1500 Baht a month like many do ,if that much.We all would not have such a big mouth and know it all attitude.

He so out of touch with reality.This forum a few years ago was great it is becoming a joke also.

Where do you get your facts...Mr Abhisit is the son of a doctor..... his family are not wealthy..., the total value of his estate is recorded as a mere 36million Bahts... where did you get your information... wrong , wrong , wrong..... Many Issan farmers can buy and sell him.... not to much platinum, and very few nice diamonds on this money..!!!!

[animatic]

I think the posts you see from farang on this website more or less back up the news headline about the class struggle. The ruling democrats are supported by the elite of Thai society, plus most of the farang on here, who are quite well-off by Thai standards, seem to be fanatically anti-Thaksin. Don't forget friends that the majority of Thais voted PPP in two elections so I wouldn't be so quick to voice your criticisms of them on here. Why not just leave it to the Thai people to sort out.

Huh... PPP only existed for ONE ELECTION...

Try and grasp the BASIC facts before pontificating.

Not surprising that the elite would support a government planning to act rationally, rather than rapaciously.

[connel707]

Publish in the scotsman at 11am 18th March 2010:-

THE mass anti-government rally in Thailand appears to be fizzling. Tens of thousands have returned to their farms.

They drew nowhere near the promised million protesters. The prime minister rebuffed their demands for elections. But dismissing it as a failure could be a mistake.

What's changed in the week since the mostly rural supporters of fallen premier Thaksin Shinawatra began their "million man march" into Bangkok?

Thaksin's red-shirted protesters, vilified as a thuggish mob after their insurrection in Bangkok nearly a year ago, has won credibility as a non-violent political movement that is in the fray for the long haul, several independent analysts said.

The "red shirts", trying to force prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to call an early election, splattered gallons of their own blood outside his residence yesterday in a dramatic demonstration to show their "sacrifice for democracy".

But the protest, which drew howls of outrage from public heath professionals, put them no closer to polls that must be held by the end of 2011.

They are well placed to win any election anyway – Thaksin-affiliated parties have won every election the past decade – and that could herald deep change for South-east Asia's second-biggest economy.

"The size of the protest, the show of emotion and discipline, has been impressive, and Thai people will have got the message quite strongly," said Chris Baker, who has written several books about Thaksin.

"The tendency to dismiss the 'red shirts' will diminish from this point on. There's an upsurge that's really a lot bigger than people imagined, and anyone who says this protest was a failure is just kidding themselves."

Federico Ferrara, a political science professor at the National University of Singapore, said the rally could garner some support from Bangkok's politically powerful middle classes by softening the image of a movement widely blamed for Thailand's worst street violence in 17 years last April.

"A mobilisation of this number of people from the provinces, against a scaremongering government that did everything in its power to stop them, is somewhat unprecedented," he said. "They've been portrayed as barbarians coming to tear up the capital, but that didn't happen. They came to Bangkok to show they're legitimate. Mission accomplished."

In a front page analysis on Wednesday, the anti-Thaksin Nation newspaper countered that view, suggesting the "red shirts" lacked co-ordination and were becoming divided, with Thaksin not totally in control.

"His entire political movement had been fractious but the problems may become glaring once the 'red shirts' make their retreat," it said. "Many of the red shirts will be going home not quite knowing what they were in the city for."

However, if the grassroots movement picks up pace, it will likely remain on a collision course with a traditional, urban-centred power clique that hates Thaksin, a corruption-convicted, multimillionaire beloved by the rural poor, who elected him twice by landslides.

Results of previous elections have shown Thais are broadly traditional voters and analysts believe the rural masses in the vote-rich north and northeast will back Puea Thai, the latest incarnation of Thaksin's electoral juggernaut.

That poses medium-term risks in a country where recent tight co-ordination between fiscal and monetary policies has been widely applauded, and where Oxford-educated finance minister Korn Chatikavanij, a close ally of Abhisit, has drawn praise from foreign investors for aggressive fiscal stimulus measures.

Adding to the risk are fears of another intervention by the judiciary or the military if Thaksin's allies win the election, as many expect, given the loyalty of his rural backers.

"I've lived through years of Thailand going back to becoming a country for the few," said Rung Suramanee, a 76-year-old red shirt from Mukdaharn, a Thaksin stronghold. "I'm ready to sacrifice anything for majority rule to return."

The red shirts aim not only to topple the government. In recent months, they have stepped up a campaign to rid Thailand of an unelected "elite" of big businessmen, royal advisers, army generals and judges, who they say have undermined governments elected by the majority of voters in the country of 67 million people.

Thaksin, who led or backed those governments, said on Monday Thai elites were "like falling trees" and urged his supporters to be patient.

Political analyst Suranand Vejjajiva said that would depend on their resources and ability to keep up the momentum.

"The question is if they can transform into a real political movement," he said. "It will be very difficult, but they now have the opportunity to become a credible political force."

Sounds like Thaksin paid someone else..........

[rainman]

I Guess Mr. T would not be a part of the Elite Class they are struggling against.

From my 17 years of watching Thai Politics , it has always been about anything BUT helping the Poor, hence , they are still Poor.

It all has to do with who you know or what you have.

GREED ??

I wonder , do these people know what HYPOCRITES are ?

Can somebody pay everyone to go home please ?

It does not matter who is in power here Greed and Corruption rules.

Bloomberg has this country for 10 years as one of the most corrupt country in Asia 8 years they where #1 the other 2 #2

This guy right now was born not with a silver spoon in his mouth

but platinum and diamonds hanging all over him, talk about spoiled elite,

he has not idea how some have to live in Issan or any place else .

We all should try to live on 1500 Baht a month like many do ,if that much.We all would not have such a big mouth and know it all attitude.

He so out of touch with reality.This forum a few years ago was great it is becoming a joke also.

Where do you get your facts...Mr Abhisit is the son of a doctor..... his family are not wealthy..., the total value of his estate is recorded as a mere 36million Bahts... where did you get your information... wrong , wrong , wrong..... Many Issan farmers can buy and sell him.... not to much platinum, and very few nice diamonds on this money..!!!!

How did he get that house then in Sukhumvit Soi 31? With 36 million Baht he couldn't even pay the land his house stands on.

[expat1968]

I Guess Mr. T would not be a part of the Elite Class they are struggling against.

From my 17 years of watching Thai Politics , it has always been about anything BUT helping the Poor, hence , they are still Poor.

It all has to do with who you know or what you have.

GREED ??

I wonder , do these people know what HYPOCRITES are ?

Can somebody pay everyone to go home please ?

[connel707]

Just now watching on television some of the Red Shirt women cooking in big pots. Maybe they are doing some good afterall. There may not be any more mangy soi dogs running loose in the streets of Bangkok.

What a racist statement

Come on...there`s no dog racing in Bangkok...!! is there..?

[luluanator]

It is a privilege to be able to make jokes about the plights of the poor. Try destitution for a few generations then get back to me.

[asiawatcher]

As a mere Farang worker in this country I am told to shut my mouth and if I don't like it - leave.

I am harassed by all levels of Govt employees at Immigration regarding continuing renewal of my Visa.

I go to my bank and they do not have sufficient cash to meet a withdrawal slip and now I make phone calls in advance so they can meet it.

I cannot own a house but can own a condo provided the majority in the building is owned by Thais but where to put two kids and a wife in a Condo?

I cannot send money to my offshore requirements to meet credit card payments without providing a statement and proof of who I am even when I have a local bank account.

Banks won't lend me money as a medium income earner so I cannot expand my business - I simply have to pay cash

I employ 4 permanents and look after my staff. I employ 100 at a time on contract - yet I am looked upon as elite or with ATM stamped on my forehead

I have a Thai family and le-kreung kids but cannot get PR without paying for the privilege yet all are dependents on my ability to support them

And now I have to put up with rabble who are being manipulated by a convicted criminal who 'was' part of the elite they so badly oppose, who are all but stopping my possible income to my business as I only deal with international clients bringing money into Thailand, who are being warned by Embassies and bloated media reports that Thailand is not safe...

From me, my family and kids, wake up Thailand. Look at what you have and work to improve it. Complaints and protests manipulated by power brokers who care nothing about you, democracy and have greed as their motivational factor, are destroying Thailand in the eyes of the world and if you don't care, try being a foreigner living in another country and see how this rubbish affects you as right now I have to play by your rules and whilst I can't change them - I sure as hel_l can have my say!

[way2muchcoffee]

How did he get that house then in Sukhumvit Soi 31? With 36 million Baht he couldn't even pay the land his house stands on.

How do you know it wasn't family property? I know a family of doctors with a compound on sukhumvit that is larger than Abhisit's. They certainly couldn't afford that land today, but the area wasn't very developed 50 years ago when the purchase took place.

Edited March 18, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rainman]

For the people who above mentioned that Abhisit's family isn't wealthy, read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7780309.stm

Especially this part:

Distinctly upper-class, Mr Abhisit hails from a wealthy family of Thai-Chinese origin.

I'm sorry, but someone who has a house like he has on Sukhumvit Soi 31, attended Oxford university, etc. I seriously doubt he only has 36 Million Baht. That's barely a million dollars.

Not a lot of Thais can afford a house in Sukhumvit, with the insane land prices, and afford to send their children to Oxford.

[connel707]

I think the posts you see from farang on this website more or less back up the news headline about the class struggle. The ruling democrats are supported by the elite of Thai society, plus most of the farang on here, who are quite well-off by Thai standards, seem to be fanatically anti-Thaksin. Don't forget friends that the majority of Thais voted PPP in two elections so I wouldn't be so quick to voice your criticisms of them on here. Why not just leave it to the Thai people to sort out.

HaHa....HERE WE GO AGAIN...The majority of Thais Did Not vote PPP ........PPP only got 34% of the vote... Dems got 36.6% of the vote... But Thailand does not have Proportional representation, plus the fact that PPP were found guilty of buying votes....Just another Thaksin scam.......

[rainman]

How did he get that house then in Sukhumvit Soi 31? With 36 million Baht he couldn't even pay the land his house stands on.

How do you know it wasn't family property. I know a family of doctors with a compound on sukhumvit that is larger than Abhisit's. They certainly couldn't afford that land today, but the area wasn't very developed 50 years ago when the purchase took place.

It would still be worth more than 36 Million Baht. So his assets can't be 36 Million Baht, unless he's on purpose keeping the value of the land lower in order to avoid paying high taxes. But I'm not even going there.

[connel707]

they must be taking a leaf out gordon brown/labours book in the uk,who have declared a class more against the conservation public school boys party who are out for the upper classes first and foremost..

pretty similar to here

and the conservative and dem leaders both went to eton

I hope David Cameron wins the next UK election. It will mean good ties between the UK and Thailand. Eton has produced some really great leaders and I think Khun Abhisit, given the chance will do a lot for this country.

Abhisit went to Oxford.... he went to school in Thailand...

[rainman]

I think the posts you see from farang on this website more or less back up the news headline about the class struggle. The ruling democrats are supported by the elite of Thai society, plus most of the farang on here, who are quite well-off by Thai standards, seem to be fanatically anti-Thaksin. Don't forget friends that the majority of Thais voted PPP in two elections so I wouldn't be so quick to voice your criticisms of them on here. Why not just leave it to the Thai people to sort out.

HaHa....HERE WE GO AGAIN...The majority of Thais Did Not vote PPP ........PPP only got 34% of the vote... Dems got 36.6% of the vote... But Thailand does not have Proportional representation, plus the fact that PPP were found guilty of buying votes....Just another Thaksin scam.......

Another mis-informed soul. Here are the results of the last election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

PPP: 26,293,456 votes (36.63%)

Democrats: 21,745,696 (30.30%)

Now, tell me ...with nearly 5 million and 6% more votes, who won the election?

[gymboy33]

to win a class war first requires a working class hero.

Therefore, for a real class war to commence, to truly begin with an agenda of equality for the future; it requires that the red shirts start letting go, somewhat, of the obsession with Thaksin alone and offering a new leader that has a rural agenda. I look around and I am blank who this could possibly be. A person who can bring together the financing side of the business families, with the street smarts of a gangster to lock in the rural godfathers using that business money which will be absolutely mandatory if they don't have a leader with such personality as to be able to actually acheive what no Thai politician has ever done, to get around the rural godfathers, and then the business support to win Bangkok and the cities.

In total agreement, well said, but who is going to take or be offered the baton?

i dont agree you need a working class hero to start a class war..

You just need to represent the working class a lot better then the other side..

Gordon brown (labour, uk) started a bit of a class war a few month ago and he's hardly a working class here but his party represent the working class better then the other side who are out for the upper class first..

And it did shake the other side up who suddenly delete (on their web-site) all the posh public school all their ministers attended.

[expat1968]

Thanks to everyone who posts. Reading this drivel gets me ready for bed out of boredom. If I did not KNOW better, I would think I was reading Talking Heads comments from Fox News. You guys are just about as knowledgeable as my favorite news channel ©ommunist

(N)ews (N)etwork. LOL and goodnight. I will check in again when I have trouble sleeping....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[hammered]

I think the posts you see from farang on this website more or less back up the news headline about the class struggle. The ruling democrats are supported by the elite of Thai society, plus most of the farang on here, who are quite well-off by Thai standards, seem to be fanatically anti-Thaksin. Don't forget friends that the majority of Thais voted PPP in two elections so I wouldn't be so quick to voice your criticisms of them on here. Why not just leave it to the Thai people to sort out.

HaHa....HERE WE GO AGAIN...The majority of Thais Did Not vote PPP ........PPP only got 34% of the vote... Dems got 36.6% of the vote... But Thailand does not have Proportional representation, plus the fact that PPP were found guilty of buying votes....Just another Thaksin scam.......

Another mis-informed soul. Here are the results of the last election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

PPP: 26,293,456 votes (36.63%)

Democrats: 21,745,696 (30.30%)

Now, tell me ...with nearly 5 million and 6% more votes, who won the election?

Excepting the party list vote there is no way of comparing anything in the constituency vote a ssome constituencies peopel were allowed to vote 3 times, others two times and ocasionally one time. It canbt be measured so I'd ignore some wikitrasdh entry if I were you and if you actaully know anything about Thai politics rathjer than just blindly fgollow your chosen facist colour

[Cayenne]

What do these red shirts mean by class war? Are they implying that everyone is not a rural poor (i.e. everyone on this board) will be sent to re-education camps if they win?

[hammered]

What do these red shirts mean by class war? Are they implying that everyone is not a rural poor (i.e. everyone on this board) will be sent to re-education camps if they win?

It is a nonsensical statement and they have never ever ever been able to explasin how vast tranches of the working or peasant classes in the south and centralk region despise the red shirts. The answer is that it isnt class war but a power game between the elite on different sides and dont underestimate how many super rich and elite side with the red camp. Oh and by the way name one red leader who is from the poor......

[luluanator]

As a mere Farang worker in this country I am told to shut my mouth and if I don't like it - leave.

I am harassed by all levels of Govt employees at Immigration regarding continuing renewal of my Visa.

I go to my bank and they do not have sufficient cash to meet a withdrawal slip and now I make phone calls in advance so they can meet it.

I cannot own a house but can own a condo provided the majority in the building is owned by Thais but where to put two kids and a wife in a Condo?

I cannot send money to my offshore requirements to meet credit card payments without providing a statement and proof of who I am even when I have a local bank account.

Banks won't lend me money as a medium income earner so I cannot expand my business - I simply have to pay cash

I employ 4 permanents and look after my staff. I employ 100 at a time on contract - yet I am looked upon as elite or with ATM stamped on my forehead

I have a Thai family and le-kreung kids but cannot get PR without paying for the privilege yet all are dependents on my ability to support them

And now I have to put up with rabble who are being manipulated by a convicted criminal who 'was' part of the elite they so badly oppose, who are all but stopping my possible income to my business as I only deal with international clients bringing money into Thailand, who are being warned by Embassies and bloated media reports that Thailand is not safe...

From me, my family and kids, wake up Thailand. Look at what you have and work to improve it. Complaints and protests manipulated by power brokers who care nothing about you, democracy and have greed as their motivational factor, are destroying Thailand in the eyes of the world and if you don't care, try being a foreigner living in another country and see how this rubbish affects you as right now I have to play by your rules and whilst I can't change them - I sure as hel_l can have my say!

I pick Thailand over my native US on most days. It is true there are many unfair policies (no pensions for foreigners who devote their lives to teaching/civil service here comes to mind) here-for both nationals and foreigners. But all my basic needs (and quite a few wants) are more than met with a crappy gov. university salary. I have access to affordable health care, can walk alone at night (I am a woman), people are not in my face or aggressive (yes the line cutting sends me in a frenzy, but if that is one of my greater issues here, I can live with it). I understand your frustration but when I compare what I have here to a life I would have in the US, Thailand is a much better bet.

Good luck

[hammered]

Have the authorities arrsted the lunatic monk who actually threw blood onto soldiers in Chaing mai?

[Ricardo]

As usual a class post from Steve there.

And with things like burning-coffins (in Chiang Mai) & blood-throwing, a 'lack-of-class war', from the current Red-Shirt leaders, which at least some of them seem to recognise, and wish to disassociate themselves from. I won't even mention the sad & lonely figure, gesticulating from afar, yesterday's man.

Looking round I can also see one fresh-faced new leader, who has handled himself well throughout this potential-crisis, and who is now trying to show himself to be open to talk to the newly-politicising poor. But can they bring themselves to ally with him, if it brings them the change they want, who can say ? It's a long-shot. Because that figure is PM-Abhisit.

He has continued the village-loan system (but it needs controls to avoid corruption), he has eliminated the 30-Baht hospital-fee (but needs to start funding the whole social-medicine programme properly), he has made the right sort of noises on education (which is a long-term measure), and he seems to be well-respected internationally. This is surely a set of measures which they might be able to support ?

But he has a party, nay a whole country, to modernise. He needs to get his message across to the people of Isaarn & the North (not just Bangkok & the South), he needs to maintain the quiet-acceptance of the military (without whom nobody can govern), he needs to hold his coalition together, he needs to be seen where possible to reduce the corruption which riddles the system, which may include losing a minister from time to time.

Can he do it ? It's a pretty tall order. He does currently give the appearance of trying. That's a start.

The backing of the more-genuine democrats, amongst the Red-Shirt ranks, would certainly help him. At the very least, if they can sustain their movement beyond the Thaksin-era, then they might keep up the pressure on government, not to forget the poor.

In a 'class war', you need all the allies you can get !

Edited March 18, 2010 by Ricardo

[animatic]

As a mere Farang worker in this country I am told to shut my mouth and if I don't like it - leave.

I am harassed by all levels of Govt employees at Immigration regarding continuing renewal of my Visa.

I go to my bank and they do not have sufficient cash to meet a withdrawal slip and now I make phone calls in advance so they can meet it.

I cannot own a house but can own a condo provided the majority in the building is owned by Thais but where to put two kids and a wife in a Condo?

I cannot send money to my offshore requirements to meet credit card payments without providing a statement and proof of who I am even when I have a local bank account.

Banks won't lend me money as a medium income earner so I cannot expand my business - I simply have to pay cash

I employ 4 permanents and look after my staff. I employ 100 at a time on contract - yet I am looked upon as elite or with ATM stamped on my forehead

I have a Thai family and le-kreung kids but cannot get PR without paying for the privilege yet all are dependents on my ability to support them

And now I have to put up with rabble who are being manipulated by a convicted criminal who 'was' part of the elite they so badly oppose, who are all but stopping my possible income to my business as I only deal with international clients bringing money into Thailand, who are being warned by Embassies and bloated media reports that Thailand is not safe...

From me, my family and kids, wake up Thailand. Look at what you have and work to improve it. Complaints and protests manipulated by power brokers who care nothing about you, democracy and have greed as their motivational factor, are destroying Thailand in the eyes of the world and if you don't care, try being a foreigner living in another country and see how this rubbish affects you as right now I have to play by your rules and whilst I can't change them - I sure as hel_l can have my say!

I hear you big time.... BIG time.