Domino Effect Feared -- Thai Tourism Already Hit

[webfact]

Domino effect feared

By Petchanet Pratruangkrai,

Nalin Viboonchart

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Tourism already hit; retail, export and investment sectors at risk, TCC tells govt

The Thai Chamber of Commerce yesterday urged the government to end the political deadlock as soon as possible, as the prolonged street demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors.

"So far, the governments of more than 30 countries have warned their travellers to avoid visiting Thailand. Exports could be hit in the third quarter, as traders might lose confidence about doing business with Thailand," said Dusit Nontanakorn, chairman of the TCC.

Unemployment would then increase significantly, due to a slowdown in tourism, retailing and exports.

Dusit said the political conflict, which has been going on for the past four years, had damaged Thai competitiveness.

Despite a global economic recovery, the Thai economy is beset by problems, particularly the political deadlock. All parties must seek a solution to end the conflict as soon as possible.

"We [the private sector] are losers in the political conflict. The turmoil has not created any benefits for the economy. Tourism is now suffering the most, and soon the political conflict will damage the trading and export sectors," said Dusit.

The 'best way out'

He said negotiations between the conflicting parties were the best way out.

"All concerned parties must look to the Kingdom's interests rather than to individual benefits," he said.

The TCC is formulating a proposal to the government for a way out of the political crisis, and this will be considered alongside proposals by the Federation of Thai Industries and the Thai Bankers' Association.

The final outcome of these deliberations will be released in a statement by the Joint Committee on Commerce, Industry and Banking early next month.

According to the chamber's report, 70 per cent of tourists have cancelled trips to Bangkok due to the political disorder, 20 charter flights have been cancelled, and the majority of the 6,000-plus hotel rooms around Rattanakosin Island - the focal point of the anti-government red-shirt protesters - are empty.

Dusit said the retail and export sectors would be the next to be hit if foreign visitors and traders lost further confidence in the country due to the red-shirt rally.

Chookiat Ophaswongse, president of the Thai Rice Exporters Association, said both the protesters and the government should take a step back and start negotiations to find a way out of the impasse.

"The government could [for example] accept the red shirts' proposal to dissolve Parliament in the future, [say] in six to nine months - or even one year, if the red shirts committed to ending the rally," he said.

Phongsak Assakul, vice chairman of the TCC, said the extended rally would next affect investment.

"With or without violence, Thailand will be affected. The private sector is now losing confidence and any hope that the situation can be resolved," said Phongsak, adding that businessmen were finding it hard to draw up business plans in the current political climate.

Surapon Vongvadhanaroj, chief executive officer of Surapon Foods, said competitiveness and political stability were two key factors influencing international trading. If the country can get back on track, exports will grow considerably in the second quarter.

"Exporters must explain the current situation to their trading partners, so that they have a better understanding and can be assured shipment contracts and business will be maintained," Surapon said.

Santi Vilassakdanont, chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, said as long as the prolonged street rally remained peaceful, he believed it would not affect the industrial sector.

But if the red-shirt protesters upped the ante and engaged in acts of violence, such as the airport seizures undertaken by the yellow shirts in November 2008, or were to close the port, their actions would have a drastic affect on the sector.

"The industrial sector's operation depends on the global economic situation, not the political rally. The only sector that will be hit by the rally [if it remains peaceful] is the tourism industry," he said.

Santi added that orders over the next few months were good. He does not see any sign so far of damage to the industrial sector from the protests.

National Institute of Development Administration financial expert Montree Socatiyanurak urged the government to end the political conflict through democratic means, which would restore the confidence of the foreign community.

He said the government should make the economic impact its top priority, given that Thailand still relied heavily on foreign income. A prolonged conflict would hurt tourism and investment, which would be very bad for the economy.

"The government must urgently solve the conflict, or else it could lead to a credit-rating downgrade and a lower number of tourists. That would in turn reduce the amount of money circulating in the system. The tourism sector alone generates Bt500 billion a year to the country," Montree said.

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

-- The Nation 2010-03-24

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[anotherpeter]

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

What is a "national government" and how is it "democratic"?

[animatic]

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

What is a "national government" and how is it "democratic"?

" National Government"

is code for giving PTP several or even near equal voting seats in the cabinet,

so they can 'participate'...

The net effect would be they would have better chances at disrupting and bringing down the Dems

with more direct access to the controls, and to block anything they dislike. Which would be

ANYTHING that benefits the Dems coalition and not PTP or Thaksin.

It would be a HALF A POWER GRAB...

and no doubt means grid lock inside the government, and not just in Bangkok streets.

It also means they could hold important issues hostage to their 'Pardon Thaksin', give him his money

free the 111 from their conviction; platform. It is essentially a totally unworkable idea,

that seems moderate on face value, until you consider the players involved.

It would have nothing to do with democracy, it would be a bribe to

get their street branch to go away, and stop ruining the economy more.

Edited March 24, 2010 by animatic

[rametindallas]

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

What is a "national government" and how is it "democratic"?

" National Government"

is code for giving PTP several or even near equal voting seats in the cabinet,

so they can 'participate'...

The net effect would be they would have better chances at disrupting and bringing down the Dems

with more direct access to the controls, and to block anything they dislike. Which would be

ANYTHING that benefits the Dems coalition and not PTP or Thaksin.

It would be a HALF A POWER GRAB...

and no doubt means grid lock inside the government, and not just in Bangkok streets.

It also means they could hold important issues hostage to their 'Pardon Thaksin', give him his money

free the 111 from their conviction; platform. It is essentially a totally unworkable idea,

that seems moderate on face value, until you consider the players involved.

It would have nothing to do with democracy, it would be a bribe to

get their street branch to go away, and stop ruining the economy more.

I agree 100% If they do that, might as well turn it over the Taksin now.

[Thai at Heart]

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

What is a "national government" and how is it "democratic"?

National government is a terrible idea. These beggars have no policies anyway, so why would you give them cabinet positions. I think national government was something that the writers who framed the constitution saw as a good thing. Obviously, they thought that anything that smashed the idea of an extremely popular PM with an absolute majority was a good idea.

In fact, very bad idea for getting effective government in my opinion.

That said, after coups, banning executives, disbanding parties, it appears that the system is good to try anything. So roll up my PTP hearties, here are a couple of seats to shut you up?

[ThailandTommy]

Stating the bloody obvious, did they expect tourism to grow? Do they think that tourism will recover and enjoy the projected figures that TOT predict? Will we see masses of the 'quality' tourists that TOT are aiming at?

The answer is NO I really do think that Thai's are not fully aware of and the power of the media and internet. R.I.P. Thailand.

[ovaltina]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Edited March 24, 2010 by ovaltina

[selftaopath]

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

"national government" and how is it "democratic"?

"All concerned parties must look to the Kingdom's interests rather than to individual benefits," he said.

;P; This is hilarious. Does this individual know what country this is? TIT .... Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions. The rich, the army, the police will NEVER put the country or its people before their self serving desire for wealth/power/comfort.

Pleasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeeeee. But thanks for the humor.

[Thai at Heart]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Whilst I agree that the protests hurt tourism, the political deadlock of the country is not only to do with the reds. It is a litany of events that go way back to the start of Thaksin's rule and the expediency of allowing him to declare his assets belonging to his maids as not being his.

I have stood up and made similar statements to friends and family about what a great country Thailand is and as yet, none have failed to be convinced by me that they should still come for holidays here.

However the problem of attracting visitors and tourists to Thailand is not made any easier by the policies of the government concerning visas, the airport arrangements, the lack of high quality service in the tourism sector, the difficulties involved in being a long stayer all add up to making other countries more and more attractive for either a tourist or long stayer.

The TAT can't even decide what types of tourists they want to attract, whilst Malaysia and Philippines are making it progressively easier and easier for expats to retire or reside in their countries. The highest spending of all tourists are stayers and yet they are forced to repetitively jump through immigration hoops just to be allowed to stay and spend their money. If you are on a work permit, for you to bring a girlfriend to reside with you is virtually impossible. Foreign wives of husbands working Thailand can't work without work permits even as volunteers. It all smacks of simply making life difficult and preventing long staying foreigners who can afford and want to be in the country of not being wanted.

I can almost guarantee that if a foreigner does not have a Thai wife or a very strong affinity with Thailand he or she is almost actively dissuaded from staying in Thailand (property ownership/yearly capital requirements/visas) and they will plump to stay elsewhere. Of course, retired married couples don't tend to frequent high end resorts, and gogo bars, so it would appear that the powers that be actually only want this type of tourists as opposed to longer term respectable stayers. They talk of making Thailand an education hub, but god forbid mum or dad want to stay to with their kids and have to jump through all the visa mess just to be here also.

I know of dozens of friends and colleagues who are in farang marriages who would love to live in Thailand, but the logistics make Malaysia an infinitely better option. The other countries haven't rested on their laurels whilst the TAT has pulled tourism numbers out of it's backside (which are often completely skewed).

Is there really much more to Thai tourism than beaches, gogo bars and golf in the eyes of the average tourist. You can get that in any number of places.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Tejas]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Whilst I agree that the protests hurt tourism, the political deadlock of the country is not only to do with the reds. It is a litany of events that go way back to the start of Thaksin's rule and the expediency of allowing him to declare his assets belonging to his maids as not being his.

I have stood up and made similar statements to friends and family about what a great country Thailand is and as yet, none have failed to be convinced by me that they should still come for holidays here.

However the problem of attracting visitors and tourists to Thailand is not made any easier by the policies of the government concerning visas, the airport arrangements, the lack of high quality service in the tourism sector, the difficulties involved in being a long stayer all add up to making other countries more and more attractive for either a tourist or long stayer.

The TAT can't even decide what types of tourists they want to attract, whilst Malaysia and Philippines are making it progressively easier and easier for expats to retire or reside in their countries. The highest spending of all tourists are stayers and yet they are forced to repetitively jump through immigration hoops just to be allowed to stay and spend their money. If you are on a work permit, for you to bring a girlfriend to reside with you is virtually impossible. Foreign wives of husbands working Thailand can't work without work permits even as volunteers. It all smacks of simply making life difficult and preventing long staying foreigners who can afford and want to be in the country of not being wanted.

I can almost guarantee that if a foreigner does not have a Thai wife or a very strong affinity with Thailand he or she is almost actively dissuaded from staying in Thailand (property ownership/yearly capital requirements/visas) and they will plump to stay elsewhere. Of course, retired married couples don't tend to frequent high end resorts, and gogo bars, so it would appear that the powers that be actually only want this type of tourists as opposed to longer term respectable stayers.

I know of dozens of friends and colleagues who are in farang marriages who would love to live in Thailand, but the logistics make Malaysia an infinitely better option. The other countries haven't rested on their laurels whilst the TAT has pulled tourism numbers out of it's backside (which are often completely skewed).

Is there really much more to Thai tourism than beaches, gogo bars and golf in the eyes of the average tourist. You can get that in any number of places.

Good post........right on target!

[LomSak27]

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged

Gee can't quite remember, did PAD and the Democratic Party do that when They shut down Goverment house and Suvv International Airport?

[bangon04]

"All concerned parties must look to the Kingdom's interests rather than to individual benefits," he said.

What a good idea. Do you think it will catch on???

[SurinLA]

He suggested parliamentary solutions should be considered, such as dissolution of the House, a shift in political power or the establishment of a national government.

Change through democratic means would not affect investor confidence, Montree said, adding that he believed a national government was the best choice.

What is a "national government" and how is it "democratic"?

" National Government"

is code for giving PTP several or even near equal voting seats in the cabinet,

so they can 'participate'...

The net effect would be they would have better chances at disrupting and bringing down the Dems

with more direct access to the controls, and to block anything they dislike. Which would be

ANYTHING that benefits the Dems coalition and not PTP or Thaksin.

It would be a HALF A POWER GRAB...

and no doubt means grid lock inside the government, and not just in Bangkok streets.

It also means they could hold important issues hostage to their 'Pardon Thaksin', give him his money

free the 111 from their conviction; platform. It is essentially a totally unworkable idea,

that seems moderate on face value, until you consider the players involved.

It would have nothing to do with democracy, it would be a bribe to

get their street branch to go away, and stop ruining the economy more.

I agree. I am glad you say it. Do not forget that the RED Agendas are very Communist like.

[selftaopath]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Whilst I agree that the protests hurt tourism, the political deadlock of the country is not only to do with the reds. It is a litany of events that go way back to the start of Thaksin's rule and the expediency of allowing him to declare his assets belonging to his maids as not being his.

I have stood up and made similar statements to friends and family about what a great country Thailand is and as yet, none have failed to be convinced by me that they should still come for holidays here.

However the problem of attracting visitors and tourists to Thailand is not made any easier by the policies of the government concerning visas, the airport arrangements, the lack of high quality service in the tourism sector, the difficulties involved in being a long stayer all add up to making other countries more and more attractive for either a tourist or long stayer.

The TAT can't even decide what types of tourists they want to attract, whilst Malaysia and Philippines are making it progressively easier and easier for expats to retire or reside in their countries. The highest spending of all tourists are stayers and yet they are forced to repetitively jump through immigration hoops just to be allowed to stay and spend their money. If you are on a work permit, for you to bring a girlfriend to reside with you is virtually impossible. Foreign wives of husbands working Thailand can't work without work permits even as volunteers. It all smacks of simply making life difficult and preventing long staying foreigners who can afford and want to be in the country of not being wanted.

I can almost guarantee that if a foreigner does not have a Thai wife or a very strong affinity with Thailand he or she is almost actively dissuaded from staying in Thailand (property ownership/yearly capital requirements/visas) and they will plump to stay elsewhere. Of course, retired married couples don't tend to frequent high end resorts, and gogo bars, so it would appear that the powers that be actually only want this type of tourists as opposed to longer term respectable stayers. They talk of making Thailand an education hub, but god forbid mum or dad want to stay to with their kids and have to jump through all the visa mess just to be here also.

I know of dozens of friends and colleagues who are in farang marriages who would love to live in Thailand, but the logistics make Malaysia an infinitely better option. The other countries haven't rested on their laurels whilst the TAT has pulled tourism numbers out of it's backside (which are often completely skewed).

Is there really much more to Thai tourism than beaches, gogo bars and golf in the eyes of the average tourist. You can get that in any number of places.

BRAVO - A touch of reality that most of us long stayers know. If only the rich/elite/powermongers wanted to really let the average Thai individual benefit financially etc. But pity the money brokers will NEVER hear your/our message. The Thai people really deserve better.

[hammered]

"All concerned parties must look to the Kingdom's interests rather than to individual benefits," he said.

What a good idea. Do you think it will catch on???

Each and every party, and there are more than two, sees their own and therKingdoms interests as exactly the same, whihc is a bit of a problem as is that there are more than two sides and yet this current round is only involving a couple of loose alliances around two sides with some major players sitting it out.

[TAWP]

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged

Gee can't quite remember, did PAD and the Democratic Party do that when They shut down Goverment house and Suvv International Airport?

The democratic party had nothing to do with those events, mr History Distorter.

[raybona]

If I could sell LOGIC in Thailand by the Kilo, I would be a Billionaire

[NCFC]

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged

Gee can't quite remember, did PAD and the Democratic Party do that when They shut down Goverment house and Suvv International Airport?

The democratic party had nothing to do with those events, mr History Distorter.

Didn't the Democrat Foreign Minister, Kasit, say that the airport seige was just a load of fun? He was there, so I guess he knows what he's talking about.

[warfie]

If I could sell LOGIC in Thailand by the Kilo, I would be a Billionaire

Nah... you'd be bankrupt... no market... "unwanted commodity"

[ovaltina]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Whilst I agree that the protests hurt tourism, the political deadlock of the country is not only to do with the reds. It is a litany of events that go way back to the start of Thaksin's rule and the expediency of allowing him to declare his assets belonging to his maids as not being his.

I have stood up and made similar statements to friends and family about what a great country Thailand is and as yet, none have failed to be convinced by me that they should still come for holidays here.

However the problem of attracting visitors and tourists to Thailand is not made any easier by the policies of the government concerning visas, the airport arrangements, the lack of high quality service in the tourism sector, the difficulties involved in being a long stayer all add up to making other countries more and more attractive for either a tourist or long stayer.

The TAT can't even decide what types of tourists they want to attract, whilst Malaysia and Philippines are making it progressively easier and easier for expats to retire or reside in their countries. The highest spending of all tourists are stayers and yet they are forced to repetitively jump through immigration hoops just to be allowed to stay and spend their money. If you are on a work permit, for you to bring a girlfriend to reside with you is virtually impossible. Foreign wives of husbands working Thailand can't work without work permits even as volunteers. It all smacks of simply making life difficult and preventing long staying foreigners who can afford and want to be in the country of not being wanted.

I can almost guarantee that if a foreigner does not have a Thai wife or a very strong affinity with Thailand he or she is almost actively dissuaded from staying in Thailand (property ownership/yearly capital requirements/visas) and they will plump to stay elsewhere. Of course, retired married couples don't tend to frequent high end resorts, and gogo bars, so it would appear that the powers that be actually only want this type of tourists as opposed to longer term respectable stayers. They talk of making Thailand an education hub, but god forbid mum or dad want to stay to with their kids and have to jump through all the visa mess just to be here also.

I know of dozens of friends and colleagues who are in farang marriages who would love to live in Thailand, but the logistics make Malaysia an infinitely better option. The other countries haven't rested on their laurels whilst the TAT has pulled tourism numbers out of it's backside (which are often completely skewed).

Is there really much more to Thai tourism than beaches, gogo bars and golf in the eyes of the average tourist. You can get that in any number of places.

Well, I agree with much of that, for it is sensible. I will say two things.

I am a logical positivist. I believe you have to approach things in a functionalist way, slowly making progressing removing negative things, but never throwing out the good that has already been achieved.

Nobody on this forum, or anywhere else to my knowledge, has a Time Machine that can whisk us back to any given time. Ergo; the only situation that is affecting Thailand's tourism today, actually *today* now, is the buckets / bags of human blood thrown against gates/buildings etc. and the bombs/grenades/guns etc. And the general feeling of division, which had been slowly ebbing from the eyes of the international cummunity but which has returned with a vengeance thanks to this red/thaksinite movement.

Every nation on Earth has opposition groups. People always have grievances. In the UK for example, the last 13 years have been ruled by a hugely unpopular double-warmongerer who led to one million people march through London to tell him that they disagreed. They marched,he totally ignored them, they went home, often to their council flats,homelessness & poverty, which is not restricted to SEA. They didnt throw human blood or grenades around.

This current UK Govt., led by unelected and financially infantile Gordon Brown ( who gave away the UKs Gold Supplies at 30% of their actual worth, etc.etc.etc.) & has had almost 40 ministerial sackings and resignations due to serious corruption. They are still in power, as the nation spirals further into debt, poverty, crime etc. They will remain in power until removed by election, not by a mob hurling human blood buckets around. That is democracy, a slow and imperfect thing, but better than the alternatives.

As for the Visa/expat situation, I agree entirely. I am disabled,educated, have savings and a home in Thailand but I still have to jump through visa hoops that are at best unfriendly. I make the effort regardless because I love Thailand & my best friends are Thais.

But Thailand needs to fix a lot of things within institutional state machinery, corruption, turbo-beaurocratisation of society etc. and spend less time worrying about the honest law-abiding tourist and expats. My own view is that Abhisit was and is trying to reform Thailand & hasn't been given long enough time for such a mammoth task.

[raybona]

If I could sell LOGIC in Thailand by the Kilo, I would be a Billionaire

Nah... you'd be bankrupt... no market... "unwanted commodity"

Exactly what I mean, thanks to you guys I would be a superbillionaire

[Thai at Heart]

Well, I agree with much of that, for it is sensible. I will say two things.

I am a logical positivist. I believe you have to approach things in a functionalist way, slowly making progressing removing negative things, but never throwing out the good that has already been achieved.

Nobody on this forum, or anywhere else to my knowledge, has a Time Machine that can whisk us back to any given time. Ergo; the only situation that is affecting Thailand's tourism today, actually *today* now, is the buckets / bags of human blood thrown against gates/buildings etc. and the bombs/grenades/guns etc. And the general feeling of division, which had been slowly ebbing from the eyes of the international cummunity but which has returned with a vengeance thanks to this red/thaksinite movement.

Every nation on Earth has opposition groups. People always have grievances. In the UK for example, the last 13 years have been ruled by a hugely unpopular double-warmongerer who led to one million people march through London to tell him that they disagreed. They marched,he totally ignored them, they went home, often to their council flats,homelessness & poverty, which is not restricted to SEA. They didnt throw human blood or grenades around.

This current UK Govt., led by unelected and financially infantile Gordon Brown ( who gave away the UKs Gold Supplies at 30% of their actual worth, etc.etc.etc.) & has had almost 40 ministerial sackings and resignations due to serious corruption. They are still in power, as the nation spirals further into debt, poverty, crime etc. They will remain in power until removed by election, not by a mob hurling human blood buckets around. That is democracy, a slow and imperfect thing, but better than the alternatives.

As for the Visa/expat situation, I agree entirely. I am disabled,educated, have savings and a home in Thailand but I still have to jump through visa hoops that are at best unfriendly. I make the effort regardless because I love Thailand & my best friends are Thais.

But Thailand needs to fix a lot of things within institutional state machinery, corruption, turbo-beaurocratisation of society etc. and spend less time worrying about the honest law-abiding tourist and expats. My own view is that Abhisit was and is trying to reform Thailand & hasn't been given long enough time for such a mammoth task.

I try as best I can to look at things from a positive point of view. I for one see the awakening of the countryside as a good thing. I also see things from a longer term perspective than just to say the problem today is caused by one yesterday. Nothing in most parts of the world is that simple let alone Thailand. If people couldn't see that the natural progression of the PAD protests was this type of protest in retaliation, they are very naive.

The situation today can probably be traced back to the day that Thaksin was granted an effective monopoly by a military coup maker. Thai policy corruption and patronage at it's finest. Funny how the military keeps popping into the subject isn't it. I see what is going on now as trying to cram the end 70 years of political ambivalence into 5 years. The lack of policies, the institutionalised corruption, the patronage based civil service, the local overlord have all been able to flourish because the people didn't care and didn't believe that they could influence something.

Well we can't very well expect Thailand to learn how to conduct political protest in a civilised manner like the UK, (oh we forget the poll tax riots of course or the hunting protests) if they haven't even learnt how to conduct democracy properly. These protests are part and parcel of the general population starting to grow up politically. We can all sit here on our high horses saying the people are wrong, they are bought, they are manipulated, but that is better to me than complete servial ambivalence.

Christ they were manipulated for 60 years to sit around and do nothing and expect not much more. I see the PAD and UDD protests as a big improvement as long as the protests stay peaceful. So the economy takes a bit of hit, it will survive, the world will turn, and Thailand will still be here tomorrow.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[timi2546]

.... expect tourism to grow? ....... 'quality' tourists that TOT are aiming at?..

.....and again VISARULES...

:D

[mommysboy]

Stating the bloody obvious, did they expect tourism to grow? Do they think that tourism will recover and enjoy the projected figures that TOT predict? Will we see masses of the 'quality' tourists that TOT are aiming at?

The answer is NO I really do think that Thai's are not fully aware of and the power of the media and internet. R.I.P. Thailand.

The junta really don't care about tourism, after all a lot of the money goes in to the hands of the people they want to subdue, and us farangs are troublesome what with our democratic ways and notions of social welfare.

[surangw]

I was under the impression tourism was only a minor part of thailand's overall income?

Maybe the TOT finally sees the light

[ovaltina]

I try as best I can to look at things from a positive point of view. I for one see the awakening of the countryside as a good thing. I also see things from a longer term perspective than just to say the problem today is caused by one yesterday. Nothing in most parts of the world is that simple let alone Thailand. If people couldn't see that the natural progression of the PAD protests was this type of protest in retaliation, they are very naive.

The situation today can probably be traced back to the day that Thaksin was granted an effective monopoly by a military coup maker. Thai policy corruption and patronage at it's finest. Funny how the military keeps popping into the subject isn't it. I see what is going on now as trying to cram the end 70 years of political ambivalence into 5 years. The lack of policies, the institutionalised corruption, the patronage based civil service, the local overlord have all been able to flourish because the people didn't care and didn't believe that they could influence something.

Well we can't very well expect Thailand to learn how to conduct political protest in a civilised manner like the UK, (oh we forget the poll tax riots of course or the hunting protests) if they haven't even learnt how to conduct democracy properly. These protests are part and parcel of the general population starting to grow up politically. We can all sit here on our high horses saying the people are wrong, they are bought, they are manipulated, but that is better to me than complete servial ambivalence.

Christ they were manipulated for 60 years to sit around and do nothing and expect not much more. I see the PAD and UDD protests as a big improvement as long as the protests stay peaceful. So the economy takes a bit of hit, it will survive, the world will turn, and Thailand will still be here tomorrow.

Again I agree with some of that, and you certainly write more eloquently than I do. I agree that the empowerment of the countryside is a very important thing. Irony is that in the UK etc., it is often the farmers driving the nice cars and the urban types living in damp broom cupboards. But I think equality shouldnt be a geographical issue.

I never said that all things English were civilised. We have had many riots there, England also exported football violence, and over 5000 reported rapes by soldiers of local foreign girls near to English Army bases in Europe in the end of the 20thC.

I was talking more about the fact that Thailand, does not need riots & violence now. It need stabilisation, investment & a dedicated anti-corruption drive. That will not happen when there's this silly "storm the Bastille ! " nonsense. Even the original Bastille stormers etc. realised afterwards that the new leaders they had brought in on a sea of fire and blood, were even more selfish & crooked than the last lot. It was a waste of good pitchforks.

Society is an organism, it really is. It consumes, it has autonomy, it is a living thing. Sometimes its best to left it grow up on its own with helpful guiding hand rather than beating it with a stick.

Years ago I read a book, not by a sociologist but by a biologist who made a good passing comment about society in this stage of civil-conflict. Paraphrased from memory ; " Society now looks like a woman giving birth. You see the blood, the screams, the pain, and the pleas for help, and you would swear that you were watching somebody die. But infact, you are watching somebody being born."

Edited March 24, 2010 by ovaltina

[mommysboy]

demonstrations have already hit tourism and their effect will soon spread to the retail, export and investment sectors

Tourism, retail, export & investment will be 4 of those "rich power elites" that the Red's were aiming to destroy, presumably.

Its a shame nobody in the pro-red Thaksin camp has come forward to explain, despite the countless requests to do so, how exactly Thailand's poorest will benefit from tourism,retail,export and investment being severely damaged.

There is also the image of Thailand abroad issue.

I just like so many other foreigners, have spent the last 15 years or so, telling friends/co-workers/family etc. that they should ignore the negative media stories about Thailand being a paedophiles destination, or an unstable state, or just a lot of go-go bars and crooks. We have talked about the friendly people, ancient historical sites & architecture, the climate & scenery, the elephant sanctuaries etc.etc.. We actually want decent people to travel there with their holiday-savings, & add to the Thailand economy. Not because we are 'rich ruling elitists' foreigners but because we are honest hard-working people often from poor backgrounds in Europe or US, & who have saved money & want to spend it in Thailand, on holiday or as expats.

Such a shame that all this effort is seemingly undone, because Thaksin etc. wanted the nation to relapse back into carnage infront of the waiting media.

Whilst I agree that the protests hurt tourism, the political deadlock of the country is not only to do with the reds. It is a litany of events that go way back to the start of Thaksin's rule and the expediency of allowing him to declare his assets belonging to his maids as not being his.

I have stood up and made similar statements to friends and family about what a great country Thailand is and as yet, none have failed to be convinced by me that they should still come for holidays here.

However the problem of attracting visitors and tourists to Thailand is not made any easier by the policies of the government concerning visas, the airport arrangements, the lack of high quality service in the tourism sector, the difficulties involved in being a long stayer all add up to making other countries more and more attractive for either a tourist or long stayer.

The TAT can't even decide what types of tourists they want to attract, whilst Malaysia and Philippines are making it progressively easier and easier for expats to retire or reside in their countries. The highest spending of all tourists are stayers and yet they are forced to repetitively jump through immigration hoops just to be allowed to stay and spend their money. If you are on a work permit, for you to bring a girlfriend to reside with you is virtually impossible. Foreign wives of husbands working Thailand can't work without work permits even as volunteers. It all smacks of simply making life difficult and preventing long staying foreigners who can afford and want to be in the country of not being wanted.

I can almost guarantee that if a foreigner does not have a Thai wife or a very strong affinity with Thailand he or she is almost actively dissuaded from staying in Thailand (property ownership/yearly capital requirements/visas) and they will plump to stay elsewhere. Of course, retired married couples don't tend to frequent high end resorts, and gogo bars, so it would appear that the powers that be actually only want this type of tourists as opposed to longer term respectable stayers. They talk of making Thailand an education hub, but god forbid mum or dad want to stay to with their kids and have to jump through all the visa mess just to be here also.

I know of dozens of friends and colleagues who are in farang marriages who would love to live in Thailand, but the logistics make Malaysia an infinitely better option. The other countries haven't rested on their laurels whilst the TAT has pulled tourism numbers out of it's backside (which are often completely skewed).

Is there really much more to Thai tourism than beaches, gogo bars and golf in the eyes of the average tourist. You can get that in any number of places.

I agree with most of what you say, but regarding what's in red! No that really is Thailand's big selling point for most, and no you can't get that so cheaply elsewhere, but Cambodia is up and coming.

[plachon]

Stating the bloody obvious, did they expect tourism to grow? Do they think that tourism will recover and enjoy the projected figures that TOT predict? Will we see masses of the 'quality' tourists that TOT are aiming at?

The answer is NO I really do think that Thai's are not fully aware of and the power of the media and internet. R.I.P. Thailand.

The junta really don't care about tourism, after all a lot of the money goes in to the hands of the people they want to subdue, and us farangs are troublesome what with our democratic ways and notions of social welfare.

What "junta"? Are you in the same timezone and country as everyone else here? Some people of a Red persuasion seem to live in absolute fantasyland. Bit like their icon in Dubai. I doubt you even comprehend the meaning of the word, just as Thaksin was challenged (and found wanting) over the meaning (let alone application) of "democracy" (to the point he said "it was not my goal").

[mommysboy]

Stating the bloody obvious, did they expect tourism to grow? Do they think that tourism will recover and enjoy the projected figures that TOT predict? Will we see masses of the 'quality' tourists that TOT are aiming at?

The answer is NO I really do think that Thai's are not fully aware of and the power of the media and internet. R.I.P. Thailand.

The junta really don't care about tourism, after all a lot of the money goes in to the hands of the people they want to subdue, and us farangs are troublesome what with our democratic ways and notions of social welfare.

What "junta"? Are you in the same timezone and country as everyone else here? Some people of a Red persuasion seem to live in absolute fantasyland. Bit like their icon in Dubai. I doubt you even comprehend the meaning of the word, just as Thaksin was challenged (and found wanting) over the meaning (let alone application) of "democracy" (to the point he said "it was not my goal").

Just had a look about and checked, certanly not UK anyway too cold. Clock says 00.17 as I type, very dark so I assume it's not midday!

Ah right!

1. Unelected non mandate government.

2. An army that ousted the elected Government and supports and is supported by the present Government (junta).

3. A constitution that appears to allow the military to veto any decision!

Probably best if you could confirm your location and timezone!

What a spaceball!

[witold]

Way too many tourists in Thailand to begin with. I always look at this sort of news as a positive for me personally.