Like Them Or Hate Them, But Thai Red Shirts Do Have A Point

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

Like them or hate them, but red shirts do have a point

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts' protest is not as bad as the mainstream media makes it out to be, because if it is looked at from a positive perspective, one can see it as setting new standards in Thai politics - something that would be very useful for achieving true democracy.

What the red shirts are saying is that only electoral winners should be given the right to rule the country. Yet, governments that have been given the mandate to rule by the voting public have been rare since Thailand's 1932 revolution.

For instance, even though the current Democrat-led government was put in place through a majority vote from the Lower House, it was not chosen in the 2007 elections.

The Democrats only got the chance to form a government after judiciary activists dissolved the People's Power Party and broke up the previous coalition.

The dissolution of a party is often an unusual situation. Historically, it only happens after a military dictatorship and this time around too, the People's Power Party was dissolved by judicial activism that followed the 2006 coup.

However, the red shirts are weakening their stance by siding with former PM Thaksin Shinawatra - who is known for his corruption and abuse of power. Yet, it can be argued that Thaksin is not the only corrupt person - many politicians supporting the current government are no better than him. Besides, with such politicians under its wing, Abhisit Vejjajiva's government cannot be as clean as it likes to present itself.

Still, the reds are not siding with Thaksin just for Thaksin himself - even though he might end up benefiting greatly from the protest - but instead are using him as an excuse to speak up against non-elected politicians delivering policy. True, vote-buying and money politics flourished during Thaksin's time, but money is not the only factor for electoral victory because other parties also use money during elections.

For instance, this government has not exactly ruled out Thaksin's populist policies - slammed by many economists as being bad for the economy - because they are powerful political tools.

Yet, these populist policies did not bring the red-attired men and women to protest on the streets of Bangkok. They are here because they want to be heard and do not want the elite to twist the mandate they give their politicians through elections. Military coups and derived legal tools are just not acceptable to them.

The red shirts are also sending a strong message about the Thai justice system's "double standards" - a very important issue that the society should stop and listen to. The protesters want the elite to get the same treatment under law like the rest of us.

The case of former premier Surayud Chulanont's holiday home on Khao Yai Thiang springs to mind as a perfect example of injustice and inequality. The Office of the Attorney-General decided to drop the case on grounds that Surayud had no intentions of encroaching on the forest reserve. Therefore, the red-shirt movement's fury over this is totally understandable.

Besides, the judiciary has also proved to be colour-coded. Take for instance the case of red-shirt member Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul, who was denied bail and is now serving time for lese majeste. In comparison, yellow-shirt leader Sondhi Limthongkul, who repeated Daranee's words in public, is still walking free even though he faces the same charges because the state prosecution team is not yet ready to file his case in court.

Though this protest might not be able to achieve its goal of toppling Abhisit's government, the elite who rule this country should most certainly stop and listen.

-- The Nation 2010-03-25

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[geovalin]

At least one wise man in The Nation!

[junkofdavid2]

I'm amazed... and glad; that the Nation printed another side of the coin compared their numerous "objective" articles on political issues. Maybe they read Thaivisa!

Hopefully this is not just a "one-time" concession in favor of neutrality.

Again, I'm not pro-Taksin and I'm even leaning towards Abhisit. But any credible news organization should significantly present both sides of the issue; even if it's not 50%-50%. Heck, even FoxNews has some pro-democrat commentators and NBC has (a few) pro-republicans.

[Thai at Heart]

I can see this article is going to spark a good debate.

But of course, the Reds are bought, delusional, without leadership, and completely unjustified in their protest. Then again, maybe the writer of the article has a point.

[onlooker]

This is from The Nation? Wonder how it slipped by the censors.

[givenall]

I wish citizen like the shop keepers can sue these leaders for punitive damages and loss of income, every time they business suffers because of so called their act for democracy.

[hammered]

Reds have lots of good points. Now just remove Thaksin from the equation. Oh and use the same standard for Alpine as for Sarayud's house.

[tonywebster]

A few people on here will have coronaries haha. But one article does not really make amends for the years of tripe this paper has written.

[bacchanal]

I think the writer, Mr. Ganja, has an interesting avatar on his blog site:

It reminds me of this shot of a vendor selling red shirt materials at their rally:

[taurus88]

I am sure Khun Supalak and Thanong will never being seen around the office cooler having a drink. Good balance article compare to Thanong's color blind comments.

[Jingthing]

Of course they should pay attention and listen to any protest movement. That is not the same thing as caving in to a mob demanding that the government be dissolved. Its a two way street, you know. Abhisit is far from being able to travel to Isaan to speak to the red base people without serious threats against his life. That is the ugly VIOLENT political reality in Thailand today, not pretty but that is the real truth today. If they were really serious about their desire for "democracy" this wouldn't be the case.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[Samuian]

The old rant, the same old techniques used to compare apples with oranges!

To compare Darunee's Case with Sondhi, and draw the conclusion of "biased courts",

cause Da Torpedo has been sentenced and put in jail without appeal and Sondhi

not, for JUST REPEATING her words, is stunning polemics... absolutely stunning

but the reds trade mark!

More so I am stunned that the writer of this biased article is let off by some....

he Redshirt's Motto:

"they could do this and that....we can't, it's biased.. "

baeh, bae, baeh....

The red movement has lost its crediblity and comes under the

suspicion that they usurp the cause of "grass root" people and their

"genuine" grievances for only one thing - "back to power"!

Edited March 25, 2010 by Samuian

[thaihome]

Just a few key inaccuracies.

For instance, even though the current Democrat-led government was put in place through a majority vote from the Lower House, it was not chosen in the 2007 elections

The PPP did not win a majority either. Amazing how this fact is ignored

The Office of the Attorney-General decided to drop the case on grounds that Surayud had no intentions of encroaching on the forest reserve.

When ordered to do so, Surayud dismantled his house and gave up any claim to the land

I wonder if the Nation published this just because it shows how the red shirt supporters twist the truth so much.

TH

[animatic]

Having a few good points isn't the same as actually getting the job done with your chosen leadership.

If the Red-intended change in leadership was to an even more productive one, then maybe this could be serious,

but yesterdays boycot of Parliament by PTP, the Reds choosen leadership body, proved to drastically moot that point.

A fiasco for them of cataclysmic proportions for the oppoistion.

Remove PTP disruptions from Parliament and PARLIAMENT FUNCTIONS.

Was it hyperbole when Hammered pointed out that

in 1 day sans PTP, the coalition passed more laws than

the entire 6 MONTHS of PPP.... Seems it wasn't, but more akin to hard facts.

And arguably the TRT 2nd string PPP was a much more organized body

than the 3rd string dregs of TRT masquerading as a political party ;Puea Thai Party.

[basjke]

I'm sure the writer of this article must be fired from The Nation by now.

[landofthefree]

I'm sure the writer of this article must be fired from The Nation by now.

Words of wisdom from..................Nation,keep this up and I might start reading it again!

[scorecard]

Just a few key inaccuracies.

For instance, even though the current Democrat-led government was put in place through a majority vote from the Lower House, it was not chosen in the 2007 elections

The PPP did not win a majority either. Amazing how this fact is ignored

The Office of the Attorney-General decided to drop the case on grounds that Surayud had no intentions of encroaching on the forest reserve.

When ordered to do so, Surayud dismantled his house and gave up any claim to the land

I wonder if the Nation published this just because it shows how the red shirt supporters twist the truth so much.

TH

So the red shirts want a situation whereby a government must be from a party which has won the majority of seats in an election, and no other scenario, to form a government is allowed.

Why do they want this? Simple, because they think this set-up might help their dear leader.

You can bet your last dollar they have not though this idea through any further than what might help the paymaster.

Be cafeful red shirts, your unbalanced ideas might well come back and snare you.

[Samuian]

Just a few key inaccuracies.

For instance, even though the current Democrat-led government was put in place through a majority vote from the Lower House, it was not chosen in the 2007 elections

The PPP did not win a majority either. Amazing how this fact is ignored

The Office of the Attorney-General decided to drop the case on grounds that Surayud had no intentions of encroaching on the forest reserve.

When ordered to do so, Surayud dismantled his house and gave up any claim to the land

I wonder if the Nation published this just because it shows how the red shirt supporters twist the truth so much.

TH

The last sentence hits (imho) the nail on the head dead on!

[rixalex]

I'm sure the writer of this article must be fired from The Nation by now.

Words of wisdom from..................Nation,keep this up and I might start reading it again!

Which just goes to show that biased journalism is usually fine by the reader as long as they happen to agree.

[animatic]

The upshot of this proposal is this.

If one must have a MAJORITY to win,

that would function as in most cases: taking the French elections as a example.

All and sundry register and run and if no ONE party or candidate wins 50% + .000000001

then the TOP TWO winners square off in a run off election.

Similar also to the American Primaries and then election.

Now here's the rub... little parties siphon off lots of big parties votes.

BUT when the two biggest winners run off,

all these NOW non-aligned voters can vote again.

So would they vote for PTP or Democrats?

If it is typically said more Democrat votes are siphoned off to smaller parties,

and PAD's small party too, it is easy to imagine that the Dems would gain

many more non-aligned votes in a run off.

If PTP gets it's typical 35% and Dems their 35% then that other 30%

is now loose and bets are not that they will go with PTP.

And bets are the non-Aligned power brokers would be

selling their constituency influence JUST AS HARD,

and expecting cabinet seats JUST as much.

I can't see how this benefits PTP as much... but only Thaksin.

And ONLY if he can PRE-PURCHASE the power brokers before the election,

like he did with TRT... Big MONEY dude, big money.

Jaquese Chiracs party got most (eq. Democrats )

National Front of Jean Marie LaPen (eq PTP )

Socialist of Jospin shjockingly 3rd (non specific third party)

When LaPen Ran against Chirac Chirac who wasn't much liked at all won over 80%

why because even as many hated his ass, they hated and FEARED LaPens wingnuts more...

Edited March 25, 2010 by animatic

[lensta]

At least one wise man in The Nation!

I totally 100% agree

[tonywebster]

The old rant, the same old techniques used to compare apples with oranges!

To compare Darunee's Case with Sondhi, and draw the conclusion of "biased courts",

cause Da Torpedo has been sentenced and put in jail without appeal and Sondhi

not, for JUST REPEATING her words, is stunning polemics... absolutely stunning

but the reds trade mark!

More so I am stunned that the writer of this biased article is let off by some....

he Redshirt's Motto:

"they could do this and that....we can't, it's biased.. "

baeh, bae, baeh....

The red movement has lost its crediblity and comes under the

suspicion that they usurp the cause of "grass root" people and their

"genuine" grievances for only one thing - "back to power"!

Repeating the comments is an offence hence the seeking of an arrest warrant for him, but as with most things sondhi it seems to be taking a long time, and good on the reds for keeping on raising the issue.

[animatic]

The old rant, the same old techniques used to compare apples with oranges!

To compare Darunee's Case with Sondhi, and draw the conclusion of "biased courts",

cause Da Torpedo has been sentenced and put in jail without appeal and Sondhi

not, for JUST REPEATING her words, is stunning polemics... absolutely stunning

but the reds trade mark!

More so I am stunned that the writer of this biased article is let off by some....

he Redshirt's Motto:

"they could do this and that....we can't, it's biased.. "

baeh, bae, baeh....

The red movement has lost its crediblity and comes under the

suspicion that they usurp the cause of "grass root" people and their

"genuine" grievances for only one thing - "back to power"!

Repeating the comments is an offence hence the seeking of an arrest warrant for him, but as with most things sondhi it seems to be taking a long time, and good on the reds for keeping on raising the issue.

In reality he did it to ridicule her extraordinarily bad ideas.

In technical terms that was illegal,

but not because he intended these

to be ideas for use as she did intend.

Action and intent are two elements needed for conviction.

[moresomekl]

At least one wise man in The Nation!

I totally 100% agree

Concurr too !

[britmaveric]

Good article!

[hanuman1]

The old rant, the same old techniques used to compare apples with oranges!

To compare Darunee's Case with Sondhi, and draw the conclusion of "biased courts",

cause Da Torpedo has been sentenced and put in jail without appeal and Sondhi

not, for JUST REPEATING her words, is stunning polemics... absolutely stunning

but the reds trade mark!

More so I am stunned that the writer of this biased article is let off by some....

he Redshirt's Motto:

"they could do this and that....we can't, it's biased.. "

baeh, bae, baeh....

The red movement has lost its crediblity and comes under the

suspicion that they usurp the cause of "grass root" people and their

"genuine" grievances for only one thing - "back to power"!

Repeating the comments is an offence hence the seeking of an arrest warrant for him, but as with most things sondhi it seems to be taking a long time, and good on the reds for keeping on raising the issue.

In reality he did it to ridicule her extraordinarily bad ideas.

In technical terms that was illegal,

but not because he intended these

to be ideas for use as she did intend.

Action and intent are two elements needed for conviction.

I'm not sure if you're just talking specifically about a conviction for lese majeste here, but if a drunken motorist mows down an innocent bystander and then says there was no intention to do so I suspect even in this country they would get a conviction. Unless they were rich of course.

Do you still stand by your statement?

[gregb]

The only point the red shirts have proven is that the Thai electorate is not mature enough to understand the responsibilities of democracy.

You can not demand that your countrymen respect the injustices that have been inflicted on you, and at the same time support a leader who inflicts great injustice on them. That is tyranny, not democracy. Democracy requires the rule of law and the rights of everyone be respected above all else. 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner is not a democracy, no matter how many votes are taken.

Their lord and saviour Thaksin destroyed democracy long before the coup attempted to restore it.

Sorry, the reds have a point, but it is simply showing that democracy doesn't belong in Thailand until the people grow up.

[PhootThaiMaiDai]

So are we still overlooking, or forgetting, that the Red Shirts were found guilty of BALLOT FRAUD? This doesn't seem to be quietly mentioned over the screaming, parading, and hoodlum-ing of the Red Shirts. They lost the election or were forfeit though an ILLEGAL TAMPERING WITH DEMOCRACY. Having suffered through the Bush Party & Slave State Republicans & subsequent destabilization of the world economy because of it, if only the US had done what the Yellow Shirts did, might we all be in a better place. What is it with the word "democracy" that allows the crazies to use it like a battle cry for anything but... (I guess the same could be said about G_D, religion, love, and sex...).

Edited March 25, 2010 by PhootThaiMaiDai

[bulmercke]

Excellent article. The people want equality - proper and fair juctice - and a say.

Tne Red-Shirts are - as each day passes - becoming more and more empowered.

They've had enough of the current - rotten corrupt system.

This movement - I predict - will be unstoppable very soon - if not already.

[animatic]

The old rant, the same old techniques used to compare apples with oranges!

To compare Darunee's Case with Sondhi, and draw the conclusion of "biased courts",

cause Da Torpedo has been sentenced and put in jail without appeal and Sondhi

not, for JUST REPEATING her words, is stunning polemics... absolutely stunning

but the reds trade mark!

More so I am stunned that the writer of this biased article is let off by some....

he Redshirt's Motto:

"they could do this and that....we can't, it's biased.. "

baeh, bae, baeh....

The red movement has lost its crediblity and comes under the

suspicion that they usurp the cause of "grass root" people and their

"genuine" grievances for only one thing - "back to power"!

Repeating the comments is an offence hence the seeking of an arrest warrant for him, but as with most things sondhi it seems to be taking a long time, and good on the reds for keeping on raising the issue.

In reality he did it to ridicule her extraordinarily bad ideas.

In technical terms that was illegal,

but not because he intended these

to be ideas for use as she did intend.

Action and intent are two elements needed for conviction.

I'm not sure if you're just talking specifically about a conviction for lese majeste here, but if a drunken motorist mows down an innocent bystander and then says there was no intention to do so I suspect even in this country they would get a conviction. Unless they were rich of course.

Do you still stand by your statement?

There have been people under the influence than never intended to be so,

nor driving, and got reductions in sentence for not having any intent to cause harm.

Any good judge weighs the demeanor and observable intent of the parties before him.

That's why there is FLEXIBILITY in sentencing in most cases.

Because some people ignore the laws repeatedly and just drive drunk after liscenes removals,

and others have one beer and get slipped a micky...

and get in their car not knowing they will be out of their mind in 15 minutes.