Thai Troops Retreat In Face Of 80,000 Protesters

[Jimmu]

I agree with Elliss! Appeasement doesn't work in the long term. The red leadership will probably increase their pressure because of the withdrawal of the security forces. This can only delay an eventual confrontation if the reds continue to hold this country's capital hostage long term. Further, I don't think Elliss said he/she got that information from the media, rather it came from deliberating on the facts he has to hand and coming to a conclusion!

[anotherpeter]

stationing military next to the protesters and around the temples might be seen as a provocation in a normal country, so good to hear they were withdrawn further away.

anyway, it suppose to be police and civilians working for the police, to maintain order in the city - it's their duty and they are properly trained to do so. Military is not needed in the town.

as to numbers of protesters today - if they were spread in 8 different location and if they were in each place in significant numbers, to put pressure on the commanding officer to move away from the old town, might mean that there were well over 80k

This isn't a normal (western) country. I don't believe the Thai police are really trained for this situation. Most are only trained to write traffic tickets.

While the army are only carrying sheilds and batons, I don't see that they are a provocation for being in locations away from the protest site ready to get in to position if required.

I think it's a strategy of the red shirts to get the army out of the way so they can cause some havoc somewhere by surprise.

[Sunderland]

Veera: Tonight's target is Gov't House

BANGKOK: -- DAAD leader Veera Musikapong has announced that tonight protesters will pressure military personnel inside the Government House to return to their barracks.

Tomorrow, protesters will march to the Center for the Administration of Peace and Order at the 11th Infantry Regiment.

They claim that the military must return to the barracks.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Oh God! Not coming up here again! At least they could have made it Monday and got us a day off work.

Isn't the 11th Infantry Regiment a place where soldiers are meant to be??? Where do they want them to go?

Next 24 hours will be either very memorable or very forgettable.

[chesneychez]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

Totally agree with you. Abhisit might not be a perfect man but he isn't a bad man at all. All thais should give him a chance to govern the nation. The time given to Abhisit now just isn't long enough. Give him another year or two to prove himself.

[espinoza]

So what happens when the army decides not to back down in a particular situation?

Eventually, there is going to be violence.

And the reds will come up with some lame propaganda to say that it was Abhisit's fault.

It is terribly sad, as Abhisit has been the most outspoken 'no violence' person so far, his comment when he heard of the blood-buckets idea was "I worry about their health, withdrawing blood in a medically unsafe way".

I just hope people remember this quiet, humble man and his words during this sad affair.

Tumb up for you my friend !!!

Abhisit is the only person strong enough to get this country back on track. He already told hundreds of times that the elections will appear according to the constitution. If people cannot respect this, and make turmoils, the law obstruct his possibilities to run this constutional election.

I guess the elections result will be an object of fighting anyway. Somebody will not respect the result regardless of which party gets the votes.

I`m just very sorry about this banana republic nonsens.

[Arkady]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

Yes, Abhisit was not directly elected by the people because that is not how a prime minister is elected a parliamentary system. Abhisit was elected by a majority of MPs in exactly the same way as Samak and Somchai were elected before him. Since they were elected by MPs who came from the same general elections, were they also not lawfully elected? Your comment makes as much sense as saying that Gordon Brown isn't elected.

[Ricardo]

Sensible restraint by the army, to defuse the confrontation, but note that they say they're not going back to barracks, just redeploying elsewhere, which may upset the red-shirt leaders a little.

Contrast this with the use of border-police against the PAD, by the previous government under PM-Somchai, and PM-Abhisit looks much more calm and in-control of the situation. All he needs do is wait, the money can't last forever, and his reputation for respecting peaceful-protesters grows, he's not ranting on a stage, or on a video-link from Dubai.

He sets a good example to his fellow "ordinary citizens", which will surely be repaid, when elections eventually come. He's not raving about 'class-war', seizing weapons with bare-hands, hate for an elite, or burning Bangkok in a sea of flames. And Thais & other countries respect calmly-spoken moderation.

[Trebelone]

T

Probably want to avoid provoking these types of people, giving them an excuse and justifying violence. Good on them.

These types of people!!where did you get your brains from?Th e army has no role to play in this, they are there to protect the people,the job is solely the job of the corrupt police, who sole interests in most situations is...how much can they make....its pretty obvious that the reds shirts have the upper hand,the way the Bangkok post played it today was the red shirts were devided and would soon go away,Thaskin was legally elected and should have been legally thrown out by the people not by the militarywho are only interested in their agenda and promotions and nice pensions.

[hammered]

So what happens when the army decides not to back down in a particular situation?

Eventually, there is going to be violence.

And the reds will come up with some lame propaganda to say that it was Abhisit's fault.

It is terribly sad, as Abhisit has been the most outspoken 'no violence' person so far, his comment when he heard of the blood-buckets idea was "I worry about their health, withdrawing blood in a medically unsafe way".

I just hope people remember this quiet, humble man and his words during this sad affair.

Tumb up for you my friend !!!

Abhisit is the only person strong enough to get this country back on track. He already told hundreds of times that the elections will appear according to the constitution. If people cannot respect this, and make turmoils, the law obstruct his possibilities to run this constutional election.

I guess the elections result will be an object of fighting anyway. Somebody will not respect the result regardless of which party gets the votes.

I`m just very sorry about this banana republic nonsens.

The whole thing is to show the country cant be run, then the government lose support of the silent majority and people say oh just give em their election and we are back to where we have been a few short months before

[anotherpeter]

I agree with Elliss! Appeasement doesn't work in the long term. The red leadership will probably increase their pressure because of the withdrawal of the security forces. This can only delay an eventual confrontation if the reds continue to hold this country's capital hostage long term. Further, I don't think Elliss said he/she got that information from the media, rather it came from deliberating on the facts he has to hand and coming to a conclusion!

Elliss didn't get that from the media. And didn't get it from deliberating on the facts.

The "weak government" post is common for him/her. I've seen it a few times. Never any reasons. Just a statement.

And the baht value statement was just ignorant.

At least you have given a reason for your agreement, but I don't think your reasons lead to a conclusion of "weak government". The red shirts are out there trying to pick a fight, and the government is not going to fall for it.

The government has some time on it's hands, so doesn't need to confront the red shirts yet. If the red shirts go to parliament tomorrow, I don't think the army will be backing down from there. All the places that the red shirt went today were to staging points where the army is ready to go to any trouble spots. So there wasn't any problems with them moving to different locations. Although at one location they just moved into it as they were protecting a community there (forget the exact details). That shows that they won't move from locations that they are actually protecting. They only move from staging points.

[samuidave]

Are you suggesting Thailand is better off with an 'elected' politician who is a world calibre bad man? Funny how you see the twisted Thai version of democracy as some sort of elixir to all the woes the country suffers. I will take an honest man in office over a heartless crook any day under most any regime.

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

Edited March 27, 2010 by samuidave

[Ricardo]

Time (actually well past time) to get out the rubber bullets and water cannons and put these red shirted psychopaths where they belong and that is the f^&*%$l- p765e.

Do you actually manage to get dressed by yourself in the morning?

mca, sincere thanks for speaking-up, I myself don't agree with the Red-Shirts' leaders, but doubt many of us would want to see violence on-the-streets against their followers.

[Indo-Siam]

There is a lot of spin going on by the Redshirts, and their supporters. The Thai military has no particular interest in location - they were not on a mission to "defend and hold" specific urban terrain. So - it meant little to the military to change locations.

The Reds keep insisting that the troops "returned to their barracks" - and the Army keeps saying "<deleted>" - the Army says they simply relocated to other staging areas from which they could still do their mission. That mission is presumably to simply be available to move within a specified time period to be in position to occupy and actively defend specified sites - which are almost certainly not the holding locations at which they were previously stationed (which appear to have been wats).

The speed with which the military re-locations were accomplished suggests strongly that the military had prepared contingency plans for such adjustments - and they simply executed "Plan B" for each group that moved.

The Reds have to keep coming up with stunts to pull off, to try to retain relevancy. This is going to eventually push them into some pretty weird territory -and they will most likely end up discrediting themselves. I'd say the Government is playing the Red Shirts like a drum.

[hammered]

There is a lot of spin going on by the Redshirts, and their supporters. The Thai military has no particular interest in location - they were not on a mission to "defend and hold" specific urban terrain. So - it meant little to the military to change locations.

The Reds keep insisting that the troops "returned to their barracks" - and the Army keeps saying "<deleted>" - the Army says they simply relocated to other staging areas from which they could still do their mission. That mission is presumably to simply be available to move within a specified time period to be in position to occupy and actively defend specified sites - which are almost certainly not the holding locations at which they were previously stationed (which appear to have been wats).

The speed with which the military re-locations were accomplished suggests strongly that the military had prepared contingency plans for such adjustments - and they simply executed "Plan B" for each group that moved.

The Reds have to keep coming up with stunts to pull off, to try to retain relevancy. This is going to eventually push them into some pretty weird territory -and they will most likely end up discrediting themselves. I'd say the Government is playing the Red Shirts like a drum.

Who knows but at tiumes like these there are extrmists on both sides quite capable of deciding to go off on a tangent to spiral things out of control and then there are third forces. At times of tension opportunity is presented for all of these and Im sure the leaders on both sides know it. Lets hope it all calms down quickly or it may just reach a point where nobody will be able to stop inevitable violence.

[mca]

Ricardo mate we can all agree to disagree can't we but some posts just have to be ridiculed for the utter ignorance they contain. I'd feel the same if a Pro-Thaksin poster advocated the murder of Abhisit or the like.

[anotherpeter]

T

Probably want to avoid provoking these types of people, giving them an excuse and justifying violence. Good on them.

These types of people!!where did you get your brains from?Th e army has no role to play in this, they are there to protect the people,the job is solely the job of the corrupt police, who sole interests in most situations is...how much can they make....its pretty obvious that the reds shirts have the upper hand,the way the Bangkok post played it today was the red shirts were devided and would soon go away,Thaskin was legally elected and should have been legally thrown out by the people not by the militarywho are only interested in their agenda and promotions and nice pensions.

The army shouldn't have a role to play, except for the fact of the corrupt (and inept) police.

Thaksin was legally (??) elected twice in 2001 and 2005. In 2006 he dissolved government and tried again, but couldn't form a new government after the 2006 elections, so at the time of the coup, he was not actually the elected PM.

You're right that the red shirts are divided and will probably go away soon, so 'ding's comment commending the army on ignoring any provocation by the red shirts is spot on. The red shirts are looking for a fight, and the army is not interested.

[Rooo]

Offending post removed & warning issued. Any other posts 9 justified )containing a reference , have also been removed.

[Acharn]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

I'm glad I can agree with you. Suthep, on the other hand...

Abhisit's real problem is that the Army (Anupong) overstepped it's legitimate role in bringing down two governments and then bringing about the coalition that brought the Democrats to lead the government. Yes, yes, the current government is legal, according to the constitution, but it lacks legitimacy. The courts disbanded two political parties, but didn't persuade their followers that the decisions were just. The law is not the same as justice, and many people regard the constitutional provision requiring the dissolution of parties when one or more of their executives is convicted of certain misbehavior is seen by some as too far removed from justice. The way the junta forced the constitution through was not seen by everybody as legitimate, either.

Sorry, I'm wandering off topic. I'm glad no provocateur managed to start bloodshed today. At least not yet. I don't want to see a repeat of May 1992.

[Thormaturge]

on the positive side ....the thai bart would be even stronger ,

if there was not the , current political unrest .

The current political "unrest" is the reason why the Baht and the SET are at two-year highs. Thaksin's best efforts have been unsuccessful and the government is perceived to have an air of stability about it. Foreign investors have been snappig up Thai shares which are now seen as being cheap, secure and high yielding.

They'll learn.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Thormaturge

[yoshiwara]

Good preventive move!

What is the army supposed to do in the case some of the

soldiers are attacked or otherwise provoked,

maybe even taken for ransom?

Someone needs urgently a provocation, some wrong move and this is at "all cost" to be avoided!

this confirms ,,,, a weak goverment ..

on the positive side ....the thai bart would be even stronger ,

if there was not the , current political unrest .

The Thaksin apologists can be very sly.

But it gives everybody else an idea of what the red tactics are.

It works like this:

First, the red forces nudge forward, hoping that the government forces will push back.

The reds can then go violent claiming 'self-defence'.

On the other hand, if the government forces step back, then the red apologists leap in to say the government is weak.

And claim a little red victory.

But the war is being lost by the reds.

And they know it.

[hammered]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

I'm glad I can agree with you. Suthep, on the other hand...

Abhisit's real problem is that the Army (Anupong) overstepped it's legitimate role in bringing down two governments and then bringing about the coalition that brought the Democrats to lead the government. Yes, yes, the current government is legal, according to the constitution, but it lacks legitimacy. The courts disbanded two political parties, but didn't persuade their followers that the decisions were just. The law is not the same as justice, and many people regard the constitutional provision requiring the dissolution of parties when one or more of their executives is convicted of certain misbehavior is seen by some as too far removed from justice. The way the junta forced the constitution through was not seen by everybody as legitimate, either.

Sorry, I'm wandering off topic. I'm glad no provocateur managed to start bloodshed today. At least not yet. I don't want to see a repeat of May 1992.

Nobody wants to see that and apart from third hands both sides have their won extremists not averse to ramping things up, so tonight could be a dangerous time.

Im interested in what you say and wonder could the disolutions be delinked form Thaksin which seems to be the ultimate divisive point. There really seems little emotive disagreement about anything else in real terms or certainly not among those I mix with which is quite a diverse group, but once you bring up that name all rational thought seems to disappear on any side of the divide or claimed neutrality

[anotherpeter]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

I'm glad I can agree with you. Suthep, on the other hand...

Abhisit's real problem is that the Army (Anupong) overstepped it's legitimate role in bringing down two governments and then bringing about the coalition that brought the Democrats to lead the government. Yes, yes, the current government is legal, according to the constitution, but it lacks legitimacy. The courts disbanded two political parties, but didn't persuade their followers that the decisions were just. The law is not the same as justice, and many people regard the constitutional provision requiring the dissolution of parties when one or more of their executives is convicted of certain misbehavior is seen by some as too far removed from justice. The way the junta forced the constitution through was not seen by everybody as legitimate, either.

Sorry, I'm wandering off topic. I'm glad no provocateur managed to start bloodshed today. At least not yet. I don't want to see a repeat of May 1992.

Which two governments did Anupong bring down? The care-taker one of Thaksin, and which other?

Did the the disbanding of the two political parties actually cause the Democrats to come to power? The PPP had a coalition before the disbanding. After the disbanding, I believe an ex-PPP (but not banned) MP was the care-taker PM. But the PTP could not form a new coalition government because the smaller parties decided to support the Democrats instead.

[Arkady]

It seems a sensible tactic to relieve tension, give the troops a break and give the reds a chance to declare a small victory. Thaksin's strategy has not changed since the APEC meeting and Songkran last year. The only difference is that the leaders have been told to make more effort to make sure the inevitable violence, when it happens, looks like the government's fault this time. In fact Thaksin loves violence and can't wait to see a few mindless peasants getting mown down for their blind love of "The Boss". That will be the signal for him to get on the air and shriek to the world again that the Thai governement is killing its own people like he did over Songkran, only he hopes that he will not be proved a liar and end up a laughing stock again this time. He hopes his employees will not bungle again this time and will successfully provoke the army to put on another spectacular show of violence like the attrocities they performed at Tak Bai and the Krue Seh mosque under his authority when he was prime minister. Then, the script reads, the situation will become chaotic resulting in either 1) Abhisit giving up and dissolving parliament leading to a Pheua Thai dominated goverment that will change the constitution and have all judicial proceedings against him dropped reuniting him with his ill gotten billions and paving his return to autocratic rule; 2) a military coup. Although not impossible, a military coup would probably not be in favour of Thaksin. Nevertheless, he would expect another flabby and indecisive civilan goverment appointed by the military that would be unpopular at home and abroad. Meanwhile, he would be able to raise his profile as the champion of democracy again which has been somewhat dented by the Supreme Court's recent judgement that he was guilty of abuse of power while in office. It would not be long before the military would have to allow elections leading just as surely to the end result of scenario 1 but with a slight delay. Either way he anticipates getting back into the driving seat again within a couple of years and next time he will make sure that he can never be unseated again.

Tomorrow may be a dangerous day, since Thaksin, who subsribes to all kinds of superstitious beliefs, believes that 10 is his lucky number and 28 is 2 + 8. His red staffers may be incentivised with extra cash performance bonuses to make his dream of real blood sacrifice come true. He is getting worried that most red shirts will not want to stay in the capital over Songkran this year and that after that the rains might make them reluctant to come back and sleep on the streets again.

[anotherpeter]

It seems a sensible tactic to relieve tension, give the troops a break and give the reds a chance to declare a small victory. Thaksin's strategy has not changed since the APEC meeting and Songkran last year. The only difference is that the leaders have been told to make more effort to make sure the inevitable violence, when it happens, looks like the government's fault this time. In fact Thaksin loves violence and can't wait to see a few mindless peasants getting mown down for their blind love of "The Boss". That will be the signal for him to get on the air and shriek to the world again that the Thai governement is killing its own people like he did over Songkran, only he hopes that he will not be proved a liar and end up a laughing stock again this time. He hopes his employees will not bungle again this time and will successfully provoke the army to put on another spectacular show of violence like the attrocities they performed at Tak Bai and the Krue Seh mosque under his authority when he was prime minister. Then, the script reads, the situation will become chaotic resulting in either 1) Abhisit giving up and dissolving parliament leading to a Pheua Thai dominated goverment that will change the constitution and have all judicial proceedings against him dropped reuniting him with his ill gotten billions and paving his return to autocratic rule; 2) a military coup. Although not impossible, a military coup would probably not be in favour of Thaksin. Nevertheless, he would expect another flabby and indecisive civilan goverment appointed by the military that would be unpopular at home and abroad. Meanwhile, he would be able to raise his profile as the champion of democracy again which has been somewhat dented by the Supreme Court's recent judgement that he was guilty of abuse of power while in office. It would not be long before the military would have to allow elections leading just as surely to the end result of scenario 1 but with a slight delay. Either way he anticipates getting back into the driving seat again within a couple of years and next time he will make sure that he can never be unseated again.

Tomorrow may be a dangerous day, since Thaksin, who subsribes to all kinds of superstitious beliefs, believes that 10 is his lucky number and 28 is 2 + 8. His red staffers may be incentivised with extra cash performance bonuses to make his dream of real blood sacrifice come true. He is getting worried that most red shirts will not want to stay in the capital over Songkran this year and that after that the rains might make them reluctant to come back and sleep on the streets again.

IMO, I don't see that an election will lead to a PTP government.

In the 2007 election, the votes were pretty even, with the PPP getting a few more seats than the Democrats. Smaller parties got the balance.

I don't see that changing too much, and maybe even more going towards the Democrats or the smaller parties and away from the PTP.

The smaller parties would still probably back the Democrats, which means a Democrat led coalition.

[siampolee]

Good post Arkady and Another Peter.

Now this comment below is the one that is interesting and to a degree it reinforces the ''Thaksin lucky Number'' theory

[b]THE NATION: Red ultimatum for troops: "Leave Govt House by 6 pm or else."[/b]

Indeed that to me is a provocative remark calculated to create a problem. I wonder if the Top Brass of the Red Shirt Brigade will be in the FRONT LINE or will it be WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND PSEUDO MONKS ?

Edited March 27, 2010 by siampolee

[nakachalet]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't electe

robinholmes

have u been in thailand long?

if pm aphisit is not elected.... why are those senators siding with the reds and former pres who also is currently a convicted but escaped male convict permitting this gentleman educated in england to stand on the leadership podium day after day as the govt leader and as a priminister....?

just how do u think apisit got to be pm....?

did u or did u not realize that.... it was in that parliamentary chamber where the majority of the senators voted for him to lead the country?

and where were those senators come from....?

you got it.... the senators were duly elected by the people to represent them.....

these elected senators in turn within the chamber elect apisit....

only a moronic soul.... would argue that apisit is not duly elected to be the current pm....

Edited March 27, 2010 by nakachalet

[YORKSHIREPUD]

d

So what happens when the army decides not to back down in a particular situation?

Eventually, there is going to be violence.

And the reds will come up with some lame propaganda to say that it was Abhisit's fault.

It is terribly sad, as Abhisit has been the most outspoken 'no violence' person so far, his comment when he heard of the blood-buckets idea was "I worry about their health, withdrawing blood in a medically unsafe way".

I just hope people remember this quiet, humble man and his words during this sad affair.

Do you really beleive that the blood was from all the protesters ???? They took a small amount of blood from several volunteers just for the media cameras and then down to the slaughter house to get 25 litre bottles of PIG BLOOD, they hoodwinked the lot of you.

[hammered]

Tulsie is doing an excellent job on the twitter again

[anotherpeter]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't electe

robinholmes

have u been in thailand long?

if pm aphisit is not elected.... why are those senators siding with the reds and former pres who also is currently a convicted but escaped male convict permitting this gentleman educated in england to stand on the leadership podium day after day as the govt leader and as a priminister....?

just how do u think apisit got to be pm....?

did u or did u not realize that.... it was in that parliamentary chamber where the majority of the senators voted for him to lead the country?

and where were those senators come from....?

you got it.... the senators were duly elected by the people to represent them.....

these elected senators in turn within the chamber elect apisit....

only a moronic soul.... would argue that apisit is not duly elected to be the current pm....

Here's a thread that explains and discusses this issue.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Abhisit-Legi...in-t347392.html

[RickBradford]

Time running out for the Reds, now desperate to provoke a violent reaction from the Army, hope they don't get it, because the people in the front line won't be the ringleaders, you can be sure of that.

Edited March 27, 2010 by RickBradford