Thai Reds Refuse More Talks, Plan Fresh Weekend Demo

[webfact]

Thai reds refuse more talks, plan fresh weekend demo

by Boonradom Chitradon

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's anti-government "Red Shirts" on Tuesday rejected the prime minister's offer of more talks, saying negotiations to end their protests had failed and promising a fresh mass rally on Saturday.

Leaders of the red-clad protest movement have held two rounds of televised talks with premier Abhisit Vejjajiva since Sunday, in which they demanded he call elections within 15 days, but the two sides failed to reach an agreement.

"Negotiations have completely failed and have already ended. No more talks, everything is finished," a defiant Red Shirts leader Jatuporn Prompan told reporters, refusing Abhisit's offer to hold new discussions on Thursday.

Jatuporn later said that for the third Saturday in a row, they would hold a mass rally in Bangkok on April 3. "Our activities will be only known on that day," he said.

"In this demonstration, we will intensify our fight with the government, but I can reaffirm that we will stick to non-violent means."

During talks late Monday, Abhisit offered Jatuporn and two other Red Shirt representatives a compromise deal, saying he was willing to call elections by the end of the year, one year ahead of schedule.

"We need 15 days, while the government needs nine months," Jatuporn said after the two sides parted without agreement. "The government is insincere."

The supporters of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra say the government is elitist and undemocratic because it came to power through a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling removed Thaksin's allies from power.

The group, who stem mostly from Thailand's rural poor, first gathered more than two weeks ago in Bangkok's government quarter -- the latest in a string of rival street campaigns in the politically riven kingdom.

"It's a pity that protest leaders have swiftly rejected the government's offer and signalled the immediate end of talks. Despite this, the government is still open for negotiations," Abhisit told reporters Tuesday.

Abhisit also hit out at fugitive tycoon Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and now lives abroad to avoid a jail sentence for corruption at home.

The former policeman turned politician supports his movement with near-daily speeches by videolink but Abhisit urged the Reds not to be "pawns of Thaksin", before leaving for a two-day visit to Bahrain.

Thaksin has been in Sweden in recent days, after the United Arab Emirates asked him to leave his main base of Dubai, according to Thai vice foreign minister Panich Vikitsreth.

"The UAE has sent a clear signal to Thailand that it will not allow Thaksin to engage in political activities there," Panich told reporters.

The cabinet on Tuesday extended for a week a harsh security law that allows the military to take control of a 50,000-strong force deployed across Bangkok and surrounding provinces to monitor the rallies.

While the demonstrations have been peaceful so far, a series of small explosions have hit politically significant sites and army buildings, injuring more than a dozen people in the last four days.

About 80,000 Red Shirts rallied on Saturday and forced troops to retreat from security posts in the heart of Bangkok. But police said only 16,000 protesters remained at their rally ground on Monday.

The Reds have staged a series of dramatic stunts in their bid to force Abhisit out, including throwing their own blood at his office gates.

Abhisit had ruled out talks while the protesters remained on the streets, but changed his mind on Sunday, a move analysts said might hint at a weakening of his support by the establishment.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-30

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Old Man River]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level. Well, we know the bulk of the unseized money of Thaksin's has been transferred (but still in Thailand). There may be a lot of cash being thrown around upcountry right about now.

[londonthai]

the pm, if he is serious about the talks, should cancel his 2 days bahrain trip and talk with his coalition partners about the solution.

otherwise he won't be able to offer anything else, so all negotiations will be smiling to cameras.

I do understand his position - he is playing on time, in hope that protesters would get tired. But in my opinion the longer protests last, the weaker pm position is and he will have to resign. This 1 mln, or whatever figure, will come not because of money, but to have a go at the government, corruption, army and police rule in all the social life

Edited March 30, 2010 by londonthai

[anotherpeter]

the pm, if he is serious about the talks, should cancel his 2 days bahrain trip and talk with his coalition partners about the solution.

otherwise he won't be able to offer anything else, so all negotiations will be smiling to cameras.

I do understand his position - he is playing on time, in hope that protesters would get tired. But in my opinion the longer protests last, the weaker pm position is and he will have to resign.

This 1 mln, or whatever figure, will come not because of money, but to have a go at the government, corruption, army and police rule in all the social life

I'm sure he's talked to everyone he needs to talk to. He's offered a compromise. The reds have rejected it.

Are you suggesting a solution along the lines of completely giving in?

Why would he have to resign? As long as the coalition continue to support him, he will be PM. And the coalition don't want to have elections now either.

Why wouldn't a million have come out before now then? Has something changed since a month ago?

Edited March 30, 2010 by anotherpeter

[brahmburgers]

I suspect that the 'Game Over' sign just lit-up.

Not for 'I'm through with politics' Thaksin. He'll keep trying to pump the action even if there's just the 3 old women on my village corner - at the banana stand with their bright red shirts.

the pm, if he is serious about the talks, should cancel his 2 days bahrain trip and talk with his coalition partners about the solution. otherwise he won't be able to offer anything else, so all negotiations will be smiling to cameras. I do understand his position - he is playing on time, in hope that protesters would get tired. But in my opinion the longer protests last, the weaker pm position is and he will have to resign. This 1 mln, or whatever figure, will come not because of money, but to have a go at the government, corruption, army and police rule in all the social life

Have you ever heard the term 'PETERED OUT' ? That's what the Red rally is doing. It started weak, with less than 10% of the numbers they promised, plus nearly none of the thousands of monks promised, then it weakened further. Now it's a dribble of a rally. I could get more people out to protest in a small town (for my personal cause: canonize Bart Simpson) ...if I hired a few loudspeaker trucks to tool around town announcing "200 baht cash for everyone who comes to the bus station to rally at noon tomorrow."

[basjke]

Of course they refuse talks,because " he who has nothing to do with their protests" don't want to stay in Dubai for another 9 months.

[yoshiwara]

the pm, if he is serious about the talks, should cancel his 2 days bahrain trip and talk with his coalition partners about the solution.

otherwise he won't be able to offer anything else, so all negotiations will be smiling to cameras.

I do understand his position - he is playing on time, in hope that protesters would get tired. But in my opinion the longer protests last, the weaker pm position is and he will have to resign. This 1 mln, or whatever figure, will come not because of money, but to have a go at the government, corruption, army and police rule in all the social life

Obviously you haven't read the hymn sheet.

It is the Thaksin forces who have cancelled further talks now.

Not that they have anything to negotiate as their position has not moved one inch.

I understand your position.

You are a Thaksin apologist. An apologist for corruption.

But not a very good one.

Please keep up.

[ozzydom]

The red shirts came to the table ,not for talks but with a demand,that the Prime Minister calls elections within 15 days and orders not to accept compromise.

The red shirts are losing favor here in the provinces and Abhisit is gaining ground all the time.

Abhisit holds all the cards at this stage and if he plays them right he will win the next election.

[Puccini]

Leaders of the red-clad protest movement have held two rounds of televised talks with premier Abhisit Vejjajiva since Sunday, in which they demanded he call elections within 15 days, but the two sides failed to reach an agreement.

Why within 15 days? What happens in 15 days, that parliament should be dissolved before then?

Songkran. That's what happens. That's when upcountry people travel home to their provinces for a week of celebrations. Ergo, no more red-shirt demonstrators left in Bangkok.

[anotherpeter]

Leaders of the red-clad protest movement have held two rounds of televised talks with premier Abhisit Vejjajiva since Sunday, in which they demanded he call elections within 15 days, but the two sides failed to reach an agreement.

Why within 15 days? What happens in 15 days, that parliament should be dissolved before then?

Songkran. That's what happens. That's when upcountry people travel home to their provinces for a week of celebrations. Ergo, no more red-shirt demonstrators left in Bangkok.

15 days is just an arbitrary number.

The red shirts originally said the PM needed to dissolve parliament on the 14 March (the Sunday of their million man march).

Then it was Monday.

Then it kept dragging out.

Then last Sunday they said 15 days.

Then they had talks, and the PM said elections in 9 months, instead of the 21 months that it has to be (Dec 2011).

Then they had more talks, and the red shirts continued with the 15 days. And they don't want to 'negotiate' any more, because the PM isn't giving them the 15 days.

[connel707]

the pm, if he is serious about the talks, should cancel his 2 days bahrain trip and talk with his coalition partners about the solution.

otherwise he won't be able to offer anything else, so all negotiations will be smiling to cameras.

I do understand his position - he is playing on time, in hope that protesters would get tired. But in my opinion the longer protests last, the weaker pm position is and he will have to resign. This 1 mln, or whatever figure, will come not because of money, but to have a go at the government, corruption, army and police rule in all the social life

Absolute Brollocks....Pass me a Chang..!!!!

[Ricardo]

I suspect that the 'Game Over' sign just lit-up.

Not for 'I'm through with politics' Thaksin. He'll keep trying to pump the action even if there's just the 3 old women on my village corner - at the banana stand with their bright red shirts.

You could be right, it might equally have been the "Insert More Money" sign.

[Jingthing]

The reds were very naive. They watched the yellows, who did have the insider skinny on Bangkok based power, and figured they could act up and get the same result. Their leadership really isn't very bright. Wait them out, the money will run out. I am not saying the yellows tactics were noble, but they worked at the time. The red tactics aren't working, and won't.

[webfact]

Red Shirts plan new mass gathering Saturday

BANGKOK (TNA) -- The anti-government Red Shirt protest leaders vowed Tuesday to intensify their protest with the third mass gathering on Saturday, but gave no further details after their two fruitless rounds of talks with the government.

Jatuporn Prompan, a leader of the Red Shirts, formally known as the United Front for Democracy (UDD), affirmed however that their intensified operation would still be peaceful and be conducted in an orderly manner.

The Red Shirts also stood firm on their timeframe for the government to dissolve Parliament within 15 days.

Speaking about the parliamentary session on Wednesday, Mr Jatuporn said if soldiers are deployed to Parliament and barricades are erected, the protesters will dismantle all barricades.

He also called for the withdrawal of soldiers from the temples which were being used as temporary bases around the Red Shirts protest site, saying it was not appropriate. If the government refuses to do that, he said, protesters will gather at temples to pressure them to leave.

Nattawut Saikua, another UDD leader, showed evidence which he claimed were letters from the Army to TV Channel 5 and Modernine TV stations suggesting news, which he said could have a negative impact on the protests, to be aired on the two stations.

Mr Natthawut demanded that the Army stop doing so because media must be impartial in carrying out its duty.

Key leader Veera Musikapong announced from the stage that the Red Shirts were determined to fight for victory to topple the government.

He said he regretted that Mr Abhisit had rejected the Red Shirt proposal and said that the prime minister must be responsible for the consequences.

The Red Shirts started their demonstration on March 14 with about 100,000 protesters camping out on Rajadamnoen Avenue. The number of the protesters dropped later while their main protest site remains at Phan Fa Bridge.

They earlier intensified their move by collecting blood from volunteer protesters and splashing it at Government House, Democrat Party headquarters, the Prime Minister’s home and travelling in convoy to Bangkok’s key streets to garner support from Bangkok residents. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-03-30

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[hammered]

Thaksin doesnt want the next military rehuffle to go through. That is what 9 months means.

Edited to add: I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

Edited March 30, 2010 by hammered

[anotherpeter]

The reds asked for an election. Abhisit offered an election. The reds said no.

Anyone that was on the fence, or supporting the "poor farmer" side of the reds, will most likely move towards the Abhisit side.

Only Thaksin supporters will support the reds now.

1) They won't get the 80,000 that were out last weekend.

2) They will get a lot more abuse if they start disrupting life in Bangkok.

And then where does it go?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Ok so Abhisit offered them a good possibility and they refuse. I.e. Thaksin refuses - he knows that in nine months from now he won't have much of a chance to get his money back. That is the reason for all the hurry.

Now, if i were Abhisit, i would do the following:

- Martial Law for Bangkok, making the protest as such an illegal activity

- IMMEDIATELY grab all the "leaders" (and ONLY them!) and throw them in jail for "illegal assembly" or whatever applies under ML

- Issue an ultimatum of my own to the rest of the actually peaceful protesters: "Go home or else...!"

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, just that Abhisit has the longer lever - he, as PM, is actually in a position to make demands while they respective Thaksin are/is not.

Enough is enough with those few idiots that are Thaksin's puppets, they use and abuse a large crowd of people via false promises and small amounts of money to put pressure onto a perfectly legit government to resign for no reason other than to allow a convicted fugitive to return to power.

Is this a banana republic??

Best regards......

Thanh (still with the red shirts for their legit issues but strongly against their "leaders" and their puppet master)

Edited March 30, 2010 by Thanh-BKK

[jdinasia]

I assume they are going to push to occupy parliament and government house. I also assume that the government will load up with water cannons, issue a legal command to disperse, let the crowd try and move the k-rails that will be hastily placed in their way. Then they will be hit with the water cannon when they try for whatever second-line of defense is used.

I can already hear Dr Weng screaming about the guns aimed at the reds (even though he couldn't produce a single injury produced by the guns he claimed shot at reds during last Songkran's red riots!)

The Government has already said --- "Feel free to protest within the limits of the law" --- the Reds are going to push over into civil disobedience, likely with women and children in the front.

[frodo]

I gotta' give kudos to the Bangkokians for putting up with this. I was in the JJ area over the weekend and sure enough the reds were doing their little parade thingy. I didn't see anyone supporting them at all. No waving, no flags, no rah-rah stuff. What I did see was some rather annoyed people wanting to get to other destinations via bus, taxi, etc., but were delayed thanks to some "upcountry guests."

It was interesting to see however, was that five minutes prior to the arrival of the main group of protesters, a small truck pulled to the curb and out jumped between 15-20 red shirts and they went into the JJ park area. As expected, when the "troops" arrived so did they. They were rather obnoxious, actually. All the hootin' and hollerin', blocking peoples entrances onto buses, and of course the photo ops! They actually had their very own cameraman present. Sure, he took photos of the folk from the earlier truck all huddled together with a nice background of a parade. Nice photos of the "actors" spreading throughout the normal (non-protesters) people on the street. Once, the last truck arrived, the good folks in red promptly jumped into the back of the truck, and they were on their way to their next destination to show what great support they truly have. Good PR I suppose, but didn't fool anyone in that area.

All I could think was how sad it must be for a performance to start, but the majority of the audience are paid actors, yet the producers call it a "smashing success," as evidenced by a full house.

Seeing what I had seen over the weekend, I'm not sure how much longer the nice city folk will allow themselves to be trampled on. Protesting is fine, but keep it confined. People are getting a little tired of this.

Edited March 30, 2010 by frodo

[lannarebirth]

Jatuporn is saying one million Red Shirts in Bangkok this Saturday. He is back to the one million level. Well, we know the bulk of the unseized money of Thaksin's has been transferred (but still in Thailand). There may be a lot of cash being thrown around upcountry right about now.

Ironic economic stimulus plan?

[livingthedream]

'sigh'....etc!

[Insight]

Thaksin doesnt want the next military rehuffle to go through. That is what 9 months means.

Edited to add: I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

I've heard the same thing from a PAD source (no, they're not going to get involved in any way - that would be suicide). Either before or during Songkran the reds will make every effort to make their presence felt one last time in the hope the govt caves in.

[ThailandLovr]

I gotta' give kudos to the Bangkokians for putting up with this. <snip>

Seeing what I had seen over the weekend, I'm not sure how much longer the nice city folk will allow themselves to be trampled on. Protesting is fine, but keep it confined. People are getting a little tired of this.

I've read other posters saying the same thing, but realistically what can the "city folk" do?

[Thanh-BKK]

I've read other posters saying the same thing, but realistically what can the "city folk" do?

Hi.

Easy - create a mob of their own and chase them out of town. Or, alternative, let them know how it feels - 100,000 Bangkokians raiding *random Isan village/town* with a parade, shouting "red shirts get out".

Just an idea......

Best regards....

Thanh

PS why does this site look so weird now? Theme/background have disappeared somehow.....

Edited March 30, 2010 by Thanh-BKK

[jts-khorat]

Why within 15 days? What happens in 15 days, that parliament should be dissolved before then?

Songkran. That's what happens. That's when upcountry people travel home to their provinces for a week of celebrations. Ergo, no more red-shirt demonstrators left in Bangkok.

You must be totally mistaken.

Those people in the red shirts fight for their civil rights and democracy, and are willing to die for their ideals.

'Somebody' running out of money and some mindless water throwing would not be enough reason to make them withdraw from their great ideals??!

[anotherpeter]

The government still has the support of it's coalition partners and the army. Until that changes, Abhisit will continue to be PM (until the next election ... but maybe still PM then too).

Abhisit is stepping a fine line now. He has to let the reds continue their peaceful protest, but he needs to make sure that the protest doesn't annoy too many Bangkok people.

If he stops the reds too early, they potentially get more support. If he lets the reds inconvenience Bangkok, he potentially loses support (not that the reds get it).

This applies to the coalition and the army too. They all want to drag things out as long as possible. No one on Abhisit's side wins by getting violent too early. The army doesn't want or need a coup. They just don't want Thaksin back.

So the reds need to push, without getting violent or breaking the law. And the police/army needs to show restraint - lots of restraint.

The reds are already starting to look stupid and losing support by rejecting Abhisit's offer and further talks. If they inconvenience the people of Bangkok, they will lose more support. Not just the support of people in Bangkok, but also people up-country.

It's all still finely balanced, but it has definitely turned in Abhisit's favour.

[gregb]

Anyone who thinks the red miscreants are simply going to get bored and go home is mistaken. They will continue to provoke everyone they can until they trigger violence. Intimidating a Democrat MP just trying to eat his lunch is inexcusable. If this keeps up, some innocent citizen is eventually going to push back rather than running away from these cretins.

It is time for the government to end this. This is not about a peaceful protest anymore. This is about intimidating and restricting the civil liberties of their fellow countrymen who do not agree with their extremely misguided views.

The reds are a violent criminal gang getting frustrated because of their own incompetence and delusions. They are currently being held only barely in check. If we do not end this now, people are going to start getting hurt. And it will be entirely the fault of the criminals who make up the red leadership. The reds are reverting to their origins. This will soon become bloody and not in a good way.

Get rid of them now while there is still time. It is irresponsible to let them continue their oppression of the good citizens of Bangkok. These red hoodlums are dangerous.

Do it now, or the people of Bangkok will eventually do it for the government. And that will not be pleasant. Civil war is no joke.

[britmaveric]

Perhaps Reds should have Songkran in Bangkok? Be fun for all.

[hammered]

Thaksin doesnt want the next military rehuffle to go through. That is what 9 months means.

Edited to add: I predict this coming one will be a monster. Every supporter will be encouraged to be there. Every favour will be called in and as many hired extras as can be found will be rounded up. Songkhran is coming.

I've heard the same thing from a PAD source (no, they're not going to get involved in any way - that would be suicide). Either before or during Songkran the reds will make every effort to make their presence felt one last time in the hope the govt caves in.

The bombings/shootings/grenadings will likely become more intense too imho. Temperature is rising and rising rapidly.

[anotherpeter]

I gotta' give kudos to the Bangkokians for putting up with this. <snip>

Seeing what I had seen over the weekend, I'm not sure how much longer the nice city folk will allow themselves to be trampled on. Protesting is fine, but keep it confined. People are getting a little tired of this.

I've read other posters saying the same thing, but realistically what can the "city folk" do?

The most that the city-folk *should* do is to peacefully block any red protestor "parades". The red protestors have a right to protest, and people have a right to protest against them.

The city-folk should at least make it obvious that the red protestors are not welcome with signs making it obvious that the reds do not have the city-folk support. But they must keep it peaceful.