Disability Pension To Stop 4 Aussies

[actiondell4]

Not sure if this is the right forum,but it seems from this news article the Australian Govt is set to stop expats living on the disability pension.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/money/welfar...o-1225846381856

A LOOPHOLE in welfare laws has been allowing hundreds of disability support pensioners to use their pensions to travel overseas most of the year and keep second homes in popular South-East Asian holiday destinations. The jet-setting lives of 776 disability support pensioners were discovered by a joint Centrelink and Department of Immigration investigation, which found many were taking up to nine overseas trips a year.

The study uncovered 154 gold-class frequent flyers who spent all but eight weeks a year overseas. Of these, 71 spent less than a month in Australia and there were eight described as fly-in, fly-out pensioners who spent only a week a year in Australia.

The loophole allows disability support pensioners to keep claiming the pension, which is now more than $700 a fortnight, if they return to Australia once every 13 weeks.

Thailand and the Philippines were the top two locations for welfare recipients living in second homes overseas.

In both countries, $700 a fortnight is considered a small fortune, much more than the earnings of many working full-time, who would consider themselves relatively well off.Community Services Minister Jenny Macklin said the Federal Government would close the loophole, which allowed the 154 worst offenders to spend most of their time overseas, costing taxpayers $3 million a year.

Even though only Australian residents can lodge a claim for the disability support pension, and those on the DSP can only be absent from Australia for up to 13 weeks, there are cases of DSP recipients living permanently overseas and flying back to Australia every 13 weeks to continue receiving the pension, Ms Macklin said.

It is not known if those who claimed pensions while living overseas were working while overseas.

What do you think? Send an email to [email protected] or write to us at GPO Box 130, Brisbane, 4001.

Edited April 2, 2010 by actiondell4

[ding]

I'd like to guess the weight of the bureaucrat that canceled this practice. And I bet she doesn't look much like the sweet little things in S.E. Asia.

[lioness]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

[neverdie]

.

Edited April 2, 2010 by neverdie

[G54]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

Wow!! a huge sum - the winter fuel allowance !! Let's party every night, week, month, if the old bones of those that qualify would let them

As to the Aussies and the prospect of being denied this disability allowance, I feel for you there. Many UK people in the same situation have their money stopped in similar circumstances even if they are disabled.

Seems to me that if you are declared medically unfit to work you should not have to be a prisoner in your own home. Life is too short anyway and for the disabled, also can be very difficult. Let them have the freedom to do as they choose with what little they do get.

[neverdie]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

Wow!! a huge sum - the winter fuel allowance !! Let's party every night, week, month, if the old bones of those that qualify would let them

As to the Aussies and the prospect of being denied this disability allowance, I feel for you there. Many UK people in the same situation have their money stopped in similar circumstances even if they are disabled.

Seems to me that if you are declared medically unfit to work you should not have to be a prisoner in your own home. Life is too short anyway and for the disabled, also can be very difficult. Let them have the freedom to do as they choose with what little they do get.

What you and the others say is true.....problem with the Aussie system is there is too many bludgers and too many people with not much wrong with them on these types of pensions.....its a shame to punish the sincere ones tho.

[popeye33]

I'd like to guess the weight of the bureaucrat that canceled this practice. And I bet she doesn't look much like the sweet little things in S.E. Asia.

THERES A LOT OF HEAVYSET wimmin IN SE ASIA YA KNOW

[whichschool]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

Wow!! a huge sum - the winter fuel allowance !! Let's party every night, week, month, if the old bones of those that qualify would let them

As to the Aussies and the prospect of being denied this disability allowance, I feel for you there. Many UK people in the same situation have their money stopped in similar circumstances even if they are disabled.

Seems to me that if you are declared medically unfit to work you should not have to be a prisoner in your own home. Life is too short anyway and for the disabled, also can be very difficult. Let them have the freedom to do as they choose with what little they do get.

What you and the others say is true.....problem with the Aussie system is there is too many bludgers and too many people with not much wrong with them on these types of pensions.....its a shame to punish the sincere ones tho.

Yes, but if youre able to travel to SEA it would seem you cant be that sick, surely if you can do that youre fit enough for somekind of work.

[whichschool]

you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

Its not claimed its given without having to fill out a form i believe.

[rick75]

There is a very large difference between someone claiming DSP after losing a leg in a car accident and someone claiming it because they have stress in there life, or are drug or alcohol dependent, or becasue they are depressed. The article shows the cases are very small in numbers, why can't they look at them on a case by case basis.

One point is that it may still cheaper for the government if they are overseas, as you would assume they are not claiming rent assistance and things like that.

[scorecard]

There is a very large difference between someone claiming DSP after losing a leg in a car accident and someone claiming it because they have stress in there life, or are drug or alcohol dependent, or becasue they are depressed. The article shows the cases are very small in numbers, why can't they look at them on a case by case basis.

One point is that it may still cheaper for the government if they are overseas, as you would assume they are not claiming rent assistance and things like that.

I tried to search whether this also applies to the war veterans disability allowance but I can't find an answer. Any other Australian TV members have a specific answer of this point?

[whichschool]

There is a very large difference between someone claiming DSP after losing a leg in a car accident

This kind of claimant can and should still work, being off sick forever will in the long term affect their mental health.

[PattayaParent]

"In both countries, $700 a fortnight is considered a small fortune, much more than the earnings of many working full-time, who would consider themselves relatively well off"

This sounds very much like an April Fools joke to me.

40k Baht a month a small fortune???

[garyh]

"In both countries, $700 a fortnight is considered a small fortune, much more than the earnings of many working full-time, who would consider themselves relatively well off"

This sounds very much like an April Fools joke to me.

40k Baht a month a small fortune???

Not a fortune but to a lot of Thais it would seem that way.

[fredob43]

Less than 750 baht a day, yes a small fortune. By the time you pay rent ect. A SMALL FORTUNE. Might even be able to get a bottle of water.

[ozzydom]

There is a very large difference between someone claiming DSP after losing a leg in a car accident and someone claiming it because they have stress in there life, or are drug or alcohol dependent, or becasue they are depressed. The article shows the cases are very small in numbers, why can't they look at them on a case by case basis.

One point is that it may still cheaper for the government if they are overseas, as you would assume they are not claiming rent assistance and things like that.

I tried to search whether this also applies to the war veterans disability allowance but I can't find an answer. Any other Australian TV members have a specific answer of this point?

They are referring to disability pensions administered by Centrelink, war vets is a different department they are administered by Dept of Vets Affairs.

[ozzydom]

Australian disability pensions are available to people who have an illness or condition which prevents them from working for 2 years or more.

The recipient is supposed to be receiving ongoing care and medications and even retraining with view to making them well enough to ,at some point in time rejoin the work force.

The disability pension is the most abused system around , check out how many of the Oz ex-pats regularly play 18 holes of golf in Thailand receive disability pension and you have your answer.

[bdenner]

I agree with ozzydom. IMO the only Aust. pensioners entitled to do as they please are those on the old age (retired) benefit, war veterans etc. For the most part they have done there bit and paid their dues. Others as described here should have to be fully accountable for whatever handouts they are getting and be seen to become productive again.

Signed by me! A self funded retiree, have never received a cent in handouts and still paying Aust taxes to fund the 18 holes of golf these bludgers are playing!

Edited April 2, 2010 by bdenner

[jdinasia]

I agree with ozzydom. IMO the only Aust. pensioners entitled to do as they please are those on the old age (retired) benefit, war veterans etc. For the most part they have done there bit and paid their dues. Others as described here should have to be fully accountable for whatever handouts they are getting and be seen to become productive again.

Signed by me! A self funded retiree, have never received a cent in handouts and still paying Aust taxes to fund the 18 holes of golf these bludgers are playing!

Getting disability whilst overseas has the additional negative impact of the money not being spent at home. (It is good for Thailand to have the additional FX, but bad for the country paying it out.)

[G54]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

Wow!! a huge sum - the winter fuel allowance !! Let's party every night, week, month, if the old bones of those that qualify would let them

As to the Aussies and the prospect of being denied this disability allowance, I feel for you there. Many UK people in the same situation have their money stopped in similar circumstances even if they are disabled.

Seems to me that if you are declared medically unfit to work you should not have to be a prisoner in your own home. Life is too short anyway and for the disabled, also can be very difficult. Let them have the freedom to do as they choose with what little they do get.

What you and the others say is true.....problem with the Aussie system is there is too many bludgers and too many people with not much wrong with them on these types of pensions.....its a shame to punish the sincere ones tho.

Yes, but if youre able to travel to SEA it would seem you cant be that sick, surely if you can do that youre fit enough for somekind of work.

Yet, I have UK friends with chronic heart problems, cancer, chronic arthritis and other serious illnesses and they regularly travel around Europe (mainly to Spain, Portugal, France). The weather and atmosphere keeps them ticking over nicely and actually aids there health.

Of course there are going to be people who abuse the system, but there are also going to be those who say that if you can push a button, you are able to do some kind of work.

There needs to be a balance in this.

If the department concerned in Australia sees someone travelling a lot or living away for most of the year, surely they could look at it on an individual basis and act accordingly and not tar everyone with the same brush of being a layabout or on the fiddle?

[sceadugenga]

Anyone that thinks that they may be effected by this potential change in the Australian legislation give me a PM please.

[neverdie]

I agree with ozzydom. IMO the only Aust. pensioners entitled to do as they please are those on the old age (retired) benefit, war veterans etc. For the most part they have done there bit and paid their dues. Others as described here should have to be fully accountable for whatever handouts they are getting and be seen to become productive again.

Signed by me! A self funded retiree, have never received a cent in handouts and still paying Aust taxes to fund the 18 holes of golf these bludgers are playing!

Well said.

[ozzydom]

Judging from the original press release ,I quess that the department is looking at changing the legislation so that disability pension recipients are to spend the bulk of their time in Oz with only short overseas holidays allowed, which would be the opposite of what the people they have mentioned are now doing.

The 700 odd mentioned is only a small representation of the total number who spend holidays in SE Asia.

For G54 , each case of disability is treated as individual and is allocated to a case worker at the Centrelink office nearest their abode, these case workers have regular contact with the recipient in regard to treatment,retraining ,social problems etc .

[chiangmaibruce]

Seems to me this discussion is not about whether there should be welfare programs or not, nor is it about whether particular types of welfare (in this case disability pensions) are appropriate or not ... or just how well they are/are not administered.

Seems to be about whether all Australians are entitled to the same rights or not, just because they choose not to consume/be silent/die in their box in the 'burbs. Surely the key factors are whether people remained tax residents of Australia, and that their returns were up-to-date. If they are then why should they not be entitled to the same financial benefits as other Australians?

As some in this thread have stated they are actually (potentially) creating less of a drain on the tax payer by being away. Not using medicare, not needing rent assistance, maybe in better health for longer by being happier/warmer/getting laid etc. I do take JD's earlier point about (some) of the money not being spent in Australia, though.

This type of control does not just affect those getting disability pensions, it also includes for example those who would be otherwise entitled to Family Assistance Payments which is normally paid to everyone with children (but income tested).

I may be cynical but it seems like some kind of throw-back reverse snobbery here. The government basically says you can p1ss your money up against the wall 100 different ways and you're still deserving, a little Aussie battler ... but travel overseas and you must be boosh-wah-zee with too much money, a bludger and generally up yourself.

I'd say if you meet all other criteria, eg. health, income, and you are a citizen & tax-resident of Australia (and declare all income) then it's really none of the government's bees-knees whether you choose to spend time overseas or not. You should be entitled to what any other Australian is entitled to, all other things being equal.

Edited April 2, 2010 by chiangmaibruce

[sceadugenga]

Seems to me this discussion is not about whether there should be welfare programs or not, nor is it about whether particular types of welfare (in this case disability pensions) are appropriate or not ... or just how well they are/are not administered.

Seems to be about whether all Australians are entitled to the same rights or not, just because they choose not to consume/be silent/die in their box in the 'burbs. Surely the key factors are whether people remained tax residents of Australia, and that their returns were up-to-date. If they are then why should they not be entitled to the same financial benefits as other Australians?

As some in this thread have stated they are actually (potentially) creating less of a drain on the tax payer by being away. Not using medicare, not needing rent assistance, maybe in better health for longer by being happier/warmer/getting laid etc. I do take JD's earlier point about (some) of the money not being spent in Australia, though.

This type of control does not just affect those getting disability pensions, it also includes for example those who would be otherwise entitled to Family Assistance Payments which is normally paid to everyone with children (but income tested).

I may be cynical but it seems like some kind of throw-back reverse snobbery here. The government basically says you can p1ss your money up against the wall 100 different ways and you're still deserving, a little Aussie battler ... but travel overseas and you must be boosh-wah-zee with too much money, a bludger and generally up yourself.

I'd say if you meet all other criteria, eg. health, income, and you are a citizen & tax-resident of Australia (and declare all income) then it's really none of the government's bees-knees whether you choose to spend time overseas or not. You should be entitled to what any other Australian is entitled to, all other things being equal.

Agreed.

I put a considerable amount of money during my working life into self funded retirement schemes, and received tax benefits for doing so.

Unfortunately most of the retirement funds ended up in the hands of ex wives, so excuse me if I take advantage of the Australian Pension to which I can assure everyone here my taxes contributed to generously.

[hawthorne]

Be real or not...I believe it is the norm for most governments world wide to find ways to eliminate pension incomes. People are living too long and causing such a drag on the finances. How dare those old farts take away from the young and more able and in POWER.

Pretty soon people will not get healthcare after a certain age or they will be taxed for living too long.

[MAJIC]

As long as the disabilty pensioners are in fact disabled, then it shouldn't matter where a person spends their money or their time, if they choose to spend time abroad then so be it.

Pensions are paid in certain countries, I can't see why just because one chooses to stay in Thailand they should be penalised.

I would suspect however that there are quite a few who are not actually disabled, just using the system, you know like all the Brits living here still claiming winter fuel allowance.

You dont have to claim Winter Fuel Allowance its sent unasked for.But having said that ,its unlikely for those out of the country long term,except for absences of the permitted 13 weeks,in certain circumstances.

[thaibeachlovers]

"In both countries, $700 a fortnight is considered a small fortune, much more than the earnings of many working full-time, who would consider themselves relatively well off"

This sounds very much like an April Fools joke to me.

40k Baht a month a small fortune???

My GF earns 6k a month as a waitress. To her, 40k would be a small fortune.

As my budget will be 15k a month when I get over there, 40k would be a small fortune to me too.

[thaibeachlovers]

Be real or not...I believe it is the norm for most governments world wide to find ways to eliminate pension incomes. People are living too long and causing such a drag on the finances. How dare those old farts take away from the young and more able and in POWER.

Pretty soon people will not get healthcare after a certain age or they will be taxed for living too long.

HOWEVER, as we oldies will soon be the dominant voting demographic, I expect things to get much friendlier! Grey power rulez!