Red Shirts Rhetoric Now Into A Violent Stage

[Jingthing]

Well, most of us close watchers of the reds expected this. The reds have now entered into the violent stage of their desperate effort. They have faced a number of losses and embarrassments in the last few weeks, they are frustrated, it was pretty much inevitable (also considering the long pattern of thuggish violence of this group).

Now what? Of course western people support FREE SPEECH and hope that free speech be legal everywhere in the world. However, speech that clearly is inciting mobs to commit violent crimes is another matter. It is indeed illegal in many countries, and in my view, it SHOULD be illegal.

How about Thailand? Is the violence inciting SPEECH in itself illegal here? If so, why not arrest the violent mouthed red leaders right now?

If you doubt my characterization of their speech, you won't doubt it for long if you read this thread! To be clear, I am talking here about violent speech coming from their LEADERS, not from some random moto taxi driver.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...tu-t352775.html

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[Gonzo the Face]

This is coming to a head and very quickly.

From the redshirts. They claim to be from the poor, the downtrodden, the uneducated , well they are now proving it daily.

Think about this if you are pro redshirt.

They are using illegal tactics now without question

blocking traffic ways and impeding others from doing their daily tasks. .... is this redshirt democracy?

They by the spoken word are inciting mob action and insurection..... .... is this redshirt democracy?

their planning leaves much to be desired... their planned protest has forced , for saftey reason of the general public, the closure of business and malls...... is this redshirt democracy?

Their superb planning has led to the mall closures , now they demand that they be opened so they are able to use toilets........ is this redshirt democracy?

They demand that the muni authority rush out some portable toilets so they have toiled facilities so they can continue to try and shut down the government........... is this redshirt democracy?

Do the pro redshirt backers out there really want this level of leadership running the government and country, when they cannot even plan a group potty break???

Now they say if there are no toilets rushed to them, the will just use the area they are in..... Could you, in your wildest imagination , picture any leadear of any country, even the most downtrodden poor country in the world , making a statement like that.....

This is what you want for a leadership team ???

You do not have to be highly educated to know that this is just not right and if you do think it is , then the fate of the country is in your hands.....

You people of Thailand have a very beautiful country. respected throughout the world.... but it is now on the brink of being the laughing stock of the world..... "leaders who say go to the toilet where we are."

There are many countries of the world where if this were to happen in those countries, the maybe 10 top leaders would be brought to town square and shot. Period, Full Stop.... if that were to happen here , I fear that you would see tens of thousands of redshirts start to literally fade, past the shade of pink into pure white....

Be thankful for what you have and beware of what you think you are going to get.

[givenall]

Police is worthless. I am looking from my Condo in Petchbury, the Red Shirt doing whatever they please and there are no Police in site.

Where the hel_l is the army, I want them to come out and stop this anarchy, sooner than later , they will sill be out of control any way. The sooner they act the less damage these arrogant people can make

[bangkokrick]

So when are the Government going to take action to safe guard the people of Bangkok. The Red shirts refusal to any more negotiations and them making speeches to incite violence must give the Government fair reason to take protective action for the Bangkok population before its too late.

Cheers, Rick

[frodo]

Agreed, Rick. The Bangkokians have not been confrontational over the past few weeks. Since yesterday, it has become evident they've had enough and rightfully so. The rhetoric of the leaders has been extreme violence and has not given them any credibility for their cause.

Personally, the way they have now blocked major roads leading into and out of Bangkok via Vipahavasi-Rangsit Road and have forced the shutdown of major malls and businesses in the Siam/Prathunam areas, I feel if the government did begin to use water cannons they would have every right to do so.

It's to the point where everybody knows what they want and it's time to give it up and leave the people alone. If it continues, it will only get worse and the reds can only blame themselves (which they won't) if unfortunate developments happen.

[Insight]

It's amazing that these red rocket scientists don't appreciate that rallying against an independent journalist organisation is going to do them absolutely no favours what so ever...

They're not going to win. Thaksin is sticking the proverbial finger up at Bangkokians (again).

[lannarebirth]

The way it was taught to me was, with rights come responsibilities. My rights end where another persons rights begin. These people don't seem to have gotten past the Preface in the "Book Of Democracy".

[lannarebirth]

It's amazing that these red rocket scientists don't appreciate that rallying against an independent journalist organisation is going to do them absolutely no favours what so ever...

They're not going to win. Thaksin is sticking the proverbial finger up at Bangkokians (again).

Let's say by some miracle Thaksin found his way back. Does he really think he can govern over these people (non-reds)? That's some delusion of a magnitude I could never imagine.

Edited April 3, 2010 by lannarebirth

[TheItaliann]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

[frodo]

Thaksin is sticking the proverbial finger up at Bangkokians (again).

Yup.

[mrtoad]

Time for an early Songkran - courtesy of some nice water canon to wash up the vermin.

[Jingthing]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

Was wondering when the deafening silence of the foreign red apologists would emerge.

Three points --

Right now, it is the REDS in streets.

Right now, the government is run by Abhisit and the Thai democrats. They were NOT in power at the time of the yellow airport actions.

While the airport action was extreme and radical, the yellows at the time were not using the kind of VIOLENT rhetoric you can read is being uttered right now by the red leadership. And don't forget Black Songkran, a bloody red action.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[Kitsch22]

This is coming to a head and very quickly.

From the redshirts. They claim to be from the poor, the downtrodden, the uneducated , well they are now proving it daily.

Think about this if you are pro redshirt.

They are using illegal tactics now without question

blocking traffic ways and impeding others from doing their daily tasks. .... is this redshirt democracy?

They by the spoken word are inciting mob action and insurection..... .... is this redshirt democracy?

their planning leaves much to be desired... their planned protest has forced , for saftey reason of the general public, the closure of business and malls...... is this redshirt democracy?

Their superb planning has led to the mall closures , now they demand that they be opened so they are able to use toilets........ is this redshirt democracy?

They demand that the muni authority rush out some portable toilets so they have toiled facilities so they can continue to try and shut down the government........... is this redshirt democracy?

While one appreciates the ironic humour of your repeated references to democracy, the Red Shirts have the very practical problem that they object to the terms of the military dictatorship under which they find themselves forced to live.

Put yourself in their place. Bear in mind for one moment that the politicians for whom you were last permitted to vote freely (rotten and corrupt bunch though they may have been) are now (by quasi-legal manoeuvres put in place by the perpetrators of the last military coup) banned from standing at the next election; what immediate step can you take in the direction of freedom and away from serfdom?

Having been disenfranchised by orders of the courts, what course of action is left open to you? It is no answer to say that the judicially banned politicians were corrupt. If all of the corrupt politicians had been banned, Parliament would be a lonely place indeed.

Thailand will continue to be run by crooks for the foreseeable future. The Red Shirts really are not asking for anything more than the right to choose which gang of crooks shall govern. Now I come to think of it, those last 10 words furnish as good a definition of "democracy" as I am able to fashion on the spur of the moment.

[Jingthing]

You call their rhetoric and action asking? That is very rich indeed.

[bangkokrick]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

Was wondering when the deafening silence of the foreign red apologists would emerge.

Three points --

Right now, it is the REDS in streets.

Right now, the government is run by Abhisit and the Thai democrats. They were NOT in power at the time of the yellow airport actions.

While the airport action was extreme and radical, the yellows at the time were not using the kind of VIOLENT rhetoric you can read is being uttered right now by the red leadership. And don't forget Black Songkran, a bloody red action.

Very fair points. I fear that the pot will soon boil over if no action is taken by the Police. It only takes one lunatic to ignite the situation and the chances are that there will be a few in the crowds.

Cheers, Rick

[geriatrickid]

If some red shirt speakers are supporting violence in their speeches then they should stop. It is wrong.

I don't think anyone will dispute this sentiment.

Unfortunately, it is not as clearcut as that. It is called extenuating circmstances and provocation.

Last night on that Hotpot program that airs on TAN I was watching Ms Vapidness giggle as her 2 guests ridiculed the red leadership. Some of the comments were downright inflamatory. My point being that the Bangkok press and shows like Hotpot have been ridiculing and belittling the Reds since this nonsense started. Frustrated people have a tendency to become violent. The angry rhetoric coming from the red shirts is a reaction.

The best strategy to follow now is that shown by PM Abhisit. Smother them with love and kindness. The PM disarmed the red shirt leaders by staying calm and giving an appearance of concern. Confront the enemy with acts of love and the anger will dissipate. Stop insulting the reds, calling them animals etc. and better results will be achieved.

I know there are some that would welcome water cannons, rubber bullet volleys etc., but I know what that will lead to: A serious loss of life and property damage. We are almost at the end of the protests. A little more patience is needed and the Reds will leave. If the army is sent into the streets, it will be Southern sourced troops and Bangkok stationed elite units. Conscripts from the Red regions cannot be used as it would cause a mutiny. If the loyalist military units could not control the scene in the 1st 48hrs., then we would see a coup as the army acted to save itself. In order to achieve the results this would mean killing many people. So please, do not hope for a strong intervention. Give PM Abhisit a chance to cool this down his way. It's worked so far. Let him do his job.

[bangkokrick]

The red shirt leaders said that they will stay until the Government dissolve the house in 15 days, so although I agree that violence should be avoided, it seems that this as not as near as the end as you might think.

Cheers, Rick

[Moonrakers]

Unfortunately, it is not as clearcut as that. It is called extenuating circmstances and provocation.

Bull.

They can't get their own way and so they are spitting out their dummy. Provocation my arse.

[mrtoad]

Unfortunately, it is not as clearcut as that. It is called extenuating circmstances and provocation.

Bull.

They can't get their own way and so they are spitting out their dummy. Provocation my arse.

Yep, a right bunch of cry babies are Thaksin's cronies. It's becoming tedious - and about time their illegal actions were dealt with.

[TheItaliann]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

Was wondering when the deafening silence of the foreign red apologists would emerge.

Three points --

Right now, it is the REDS in streets.

Right now, the government is run by Abhisit and the Thai democrats. They were NOT in power at the time of the yellow airport actions.

While the airport action was extreme and radical, the yellows at the time were not using the kind of VIOLENT rhetoric you can read is being uttered right now by the red leadership. And don't forget Black Songkran, a bloody red action.

You are right, Abhisit and the Democrats were not in power when the Yellows seized the airport... perhaps because they are the yellow shirts.

And a big LOL at saying the Yellows were non violent. Did you miss the film of them shooting guns and carrying golf clubs?

And I am not a red shirt. I am an unbiased observer, although its clear that you are the one propagandizing and wearing a shirt color.

There are no red and yellow shirts just orange shirts... but enjoy the show Jing Thing. I hope your "team" wins!

Edited April 3, 2010 by TheItaliann

[monkfish]

Mmm these all seem to be The Nation exclusive stories.

Try this one

"Meanwhile, UDD Secretary-General Nattawut Saikua accused the government of interfering with the operation of media. He disclosed five official documents distributed to television stations ordering them to present news in favor of the government and to create negative image on the UDD."

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=2...S&return=ok

or this

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=2...S&return=ok

[Tod Daniels]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime". <SNIP>

The yellow shirts deemed responsible are awaiting their day in thai court, as their case will come up on the docket eventually. Do some research before you spout unsupported rhetoric. What about the reds who were responsible for hi-jacking the gasoline truck last Songkran and threatening to blow it up? Oh I forgot, they were "yellows masquerading as reds", just like the pink shirts were yellows in disguise yesterday. .. yeah right...

Anyway, just came back from a 2 1/2 hour stint wandering from Chidlom, to Platinum, back to Rajadamri to Central World, amid the 'red sea of humanity'. I was dressed in a neutral color; wearing black jeans, a black KISS t-shirt and cap, but I didn't sense any 'danger' and it was really more a carnival attitude.

What was really sad ; even though I tried many different vantage points, near the stage, on the Big C - Central World crossover, and places in between, NOT ONCE was I able to discern a single thing the people on stage were saying given the thai penchant for "turning their amplifiers up to 11" (shameless Spinal Tap quote) making it soo distorted. Other than the endless "Yub Sa-pa" I have no idea how any of the thais could even understand it.

Anyway, in other news, that Porsche which slammed into the red's motorcycles, which was parked (read abandoned sans license plates) in front of the Intercontinental sure took a good beating. The front windscreen was beaten in, and both side windows were broken in from the outside, as evidenced by the glass scattered inside the car.

Big C, was about the only place open and it was a sea of red inside the food court, with every table and chair full (so a BIG shot in the arm to their business today).

I sat with a fairly large group of red shirt gentlemen about my age (50+) and their families. They actually spoke reasonable engrish, although we conversed mostly in thai with some engrish when I couldn't remember the correct thai words . In their defense I did ask them some closed ended very provocative questions in thai like; “I see the signs saying Stop, corruption, double standards, and desolve the house, didn’t you have those things during Thaksin's, Samak's, or Somchai's tenure too?” They said there was but less than now with Abhisit which is why they want the house dissolved. Of course they then tried to give me the fall back 'pat' answer, "You don't understand thai culture." To which I responded, "We all know this isn't about thai culture it’s about thai politics. Silence. I asked them if every person in thailand was a red? They said no of course everyone wasn't red. Then I asked who gets to speak for the people who aren't reds. This was a classic knee-jerk answer which made me nearly guffaw out loud; as they said they speak for all thais. When I asked back, "So you know what’s best for everyone?" Again silence coupled with them looking at each other. The last thing I asked them was to name a single country in the entire world which had no corruption, no double standards, and no uber-rich vs. the ultra poor. Deafening silence again. They then tried to turn the tables and asked if I was a red or a yellow. Pointing to my black shirt I said, "I'm American, I'm not any color and really it isn't my business at all, just that observing politics in thailand was an interesting way for me to kill some time." That got a less than warm response from the group, so as I could see I was fast wearing out my welcome with people from other tables eavesdropping in on what we were discussing, I bit them a fond adieu.

Really though in talking to almost anyone who'd chat with a foreigner, I can say the reds sure learned how to parrot mindless rhetoric, although they seemed a little hazy on any hard facts or even knowing about events in recent thai political history.

Still, quite the experience, and certainly no where near the danger the T/V or news was making it out to be.

Go check it out, as they say; it's history in the making.

[johndpoole]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

Issue we have here today??? What 2 wrongs make a right?

[johndpoole]

The red shirt leaders said that they will stay until the Government dissolve the house in 15 days, so although I agree that violence should be avoided, it seems that this as not as near as the end as you might think.

Cheers, Rick

Haven't they been making this demand for around 21 days? So, in reality they could have started off more realistic with their time frame. Wonder if they will continue this demand 2 weeks before elections or if then they will make it a shorter period.

[TheItaliann]

2 wrongs don't make a right but when you were the 1st wrong it makes it harder to jump up and tell the second person that what they are doing now (what you just did) is wrong.

2 sides of the same coin, but keep cheering on your "team".

[Jingthing]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime".

If it wasn't, and the Yellow Shirt's were not arrested and jailed, why would you expect the Red's to be?

That seems to be the face saving issue we have here today.

Was wondering when the deafening silence of the foreign red apologists would emerge.

Three points --

Right now, it is the REDS in streets.

Right now, the government is run by Abhisit and the Thai democrats. They were NOT in power at the time of the yellow airport actions.

While the airport action was extreme and radical, the yellows at the time were not using the kind of VIOLENT rhetoric you can read is being uttered right now by the red leadership. And don't forget Black Songkran, a bloody red action.

You are right, Abhisit and the Democrats were not in power when the Yellows seized the airport... perhaps because they are the yellow shirts.

And a big LOL at saying the Yellows were non violent. Did you miss the film of them shooting guns and carrying golf clubs?

And I am not a red shirt. I am an unbiased observer, although its clear that you are the one propagandizing and wearing a shirt color.

There are no red and yellow shirts just orange shirts... but enjoy the show Jing Thing. I hope your "team" wins!

You can consider this our final political communication, now that you have revealed the intellectual level of your arguments. No point in replying to the content of that tripe. Cheers. Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

You are right, Abhisit and the Democrats were not in power when the Yellows seized the airport... perhaps because they are the yellow shirts.

And a big LOL at saying the Yellows were non violent. Did you miss the film of them shooting guns and carrying golf clubs?

And I am not a red shirt. I am an unbiased observer, although its clear that you are the one propagandizing and wearing a shirt color.

There are no red and yellow shirts just orange shirts... but enjoy the show Jing Thing. I hope your "team" wins!

Ummm the PAD/Yellows are NOT the same group as the Democrats (though the PAD did have a few Democrat members). The PAD does in fact have its own political party.

PAD Violence -- sorry but you are a bit off base there again. I am not saying that they NEVER did anything violent but the few extremes that they did do was after being attacked (with the exception of ramming a police vehicle at the airport that was reportedly attempting to block them from getting supplies in). I have repeatedly called for people shown to have committed violence OR incited violence on any side of this mess to have their day in court!

BTW --- you do appear to be wearing red

[TheItaliann]

You are right, Abhisit and the Democrats were not in power when the Yellows seized the airport... perhaps because they are the yellow shirts.

And a big LOL at saying the Yellows were non violent. Did you miss the film of them shooting guns and carrying golf clubs?

And I am not a red shirt. I am an unbiased observer, although its clear that you are the one propagandizing and wearing a shirt color.

There are no red and yellow shirts just orange shirts... but enjoy the show Jing Thing. I hope your "team" wins!

Ummm the PAD/Yellows are NOT the same group as the Democrats (though the PAD did have a few Democrat members). The PAD does in fact have its own political party.

Yeah, no connection between the PAD and The Democrats at all. Its so comical to see people involved in politics lying to themselves. Sort of how in America the "Tea Party" claims to be a new political party but its actually funded and run by very big name, mainstream Republicans.

But really, this is like arguing with football fans. They only see their color. They aren't rational. What is the point?

Again, keep cheering your "team" with your eyes closed.

[jdinasia]

You are right, Abhisit and the Democrats were not in power when the Yellows seized the airport... perhaps because they are the yellow shirts.

And a big LOL at saying the Yellows were non violent. Did you miss the film of them shooting guns and carrying golf clubs?

And I am not a red shirt. I am an unbiased observer, although its clear that you are the one propagandizing and wearing a shirt color.

There are no red and yellow shirts just orange shirts... but enjoy the show Jing Thing. I hope your "team" wins!

Ummm the PAD/Yellows are NOT the same group as the Democrats (though the PAD did have a few Democrat members). The PAD does in fact have its own political party.

Yeah, no connection between the PAD and The Democrats at all. Its so comical to see people involved in politics lying to themselves. Sort of how in America the "Tea Party" claims to be a new political party but its actually funded and run by very big name, mainstream Republicans.

But really, this is like arguing with football fans. They only see their color. They aren't rational. What is the point?

Again, keep cheering your "team" with your eyes closed.

And this is an example of how you manage to get yourself labeled (correctly) Red I did not state that there was NO connection, I stated they were not the same. Then you TRY and cherrypick that one statement and make it an issue (and fail) and skip over the violence issue

Yeppers, not just a deep fuscia ... but indeed a true Red

[TheItaliann]

Just curious, was seizing a National Airport and keeping tourists hostage a "crime". <SNIP>

The yellow shirts deemed responsible are awaiting their day in thai court, as their case will come up on the docket eventually.

:D