Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[jdinasia]

Also Article 70 might be appropriate.

Section 70: Every person shall have the duty to defend the country and obey the law.

Careful there. Obeying the law would inconvenience a great many foreigners. They delight in stating that they love Thailand because of the lawlessness. Do you want some of those great bars that pimp out locals to have to shut down? Noodle shop owners to close because they don't have work permits? Foreign "developers" to actually build according to fire & safety code? What of the time share touts?

What's that you say? You meant only that this would apply for the Thais? ahhhh gotchya.I understand now. One law for Bwana and another for the workers.

Someone might also interpret your recommendation interpret to mean that it's time to remove some of the entrenched leadership and institutions along with meddlesome opinionated foreigners This might prove a tad inconvenient for many foreign guests in Thailand.

Chapter IV

Duties of Thai People

Section 70: Every person shall have the duty to defend the country and obey the law.

Interesting comments. I really don't see your point. It might appear that you are recommending a country without laws. Do you have to reach so far? The post was in response to the UDD using the constitution to defend their actions when in fact their actions are illegal under both this Article and the one they claim excuses them. By the way, in case you missed it, here are the articles which the UDD believe protect their actions.

Part 11

Liberty to Assemble and Association

Section 62: A person shall enjoy the liberty to assemble peacefully and without arms.

Restriction on such liberty under paragraph one shall not be imposed except by virtue

of the law specifically enacted for the case of public assembling and for securing public

convenience in the use of public places or for maintaining peace and order during the

time when the country is in a state of war or when a state of emergency or martial law is

declared.

Section 63: A person shall enjoy the liberty to unite and form an association, a union,

league, cooperative, farmers group, private organization or any other groups.

State officials and employees, like other citizens, have the right to join groups, unless

it has no impact on the administration of the country and consistency in the provision of

public services.

Restriction on rights and liberties under paragraph one and paragraph two is

prohibited except by virtue of the law specifically enacted for protecting the common

interest of the public, maintaining public order or good morals or preventing economic

monopoly.

Geriatrickid was simply presenting a strawman alongside an attempt at cherry-picking. Comparing being given a lawful order to disperse from an area where assembly on the order that the reds are doing to noodle-shop owners (one would assume he means foreigners since locals don't need a work permit) just doesn't wash at all. (The same could be said with every other example he gave)

[jdinasia]

More double standards

EDIT: Latest TVisa news updated just reminded me of the fact that Thailand still only has an ACTING Police Chief. I see the Third Hand hasn't lost any influence over the Government...

EDITEDIT: Kind of fitting, considering Thailand only has an ACTING Government in the first place.

1) What third hand?

2)The last Acting government was Thaksin after he dissolved parliament.

[monkfish]

Another announcement from CAPO on Thai TV now

[kurtgruen]

Nat Jantakat, a 38-year-old lychee farmer from the north, for one vowed to keep up the fight, making light of the 37 degrees Celsius (99 Fahrenheit) temperature.

"I've been here since the first day and I'll be here until we achieve democracy."

Spoken like a true patriot. Democracy is ending the present government, sending Thailand in a downward spiral and bringing back the man on the run to restore his ill gotten gain. What a buffalo.

Sorry I didn't realise that the electorate had actually voted to put the current custodians of power in office, rather I thought that they'd been imposed by those on heigh.... Some democracy that is, bit like that shower running the show in Burma really!

Interesting reply. I suppose you forgot that Mr. T brother-in-law was put into office by the exact same process. Didn't see any protest from the reds then.

And Mr T's Brother-in law didn't last long either, did he? It would be interesting to know what your definition of democracy is or don't you believe in it?

Let's see, Democracy....A system, in which the rich and powerful use the media to influence the uneducated and gullable to keep voting them into power, thereby creating the illusion, that there is actually a choice. Usually, in the most powerful, so called democratic nations, it ends up a back and forth, of two parties (with more or less the same agenda), getting voted in, at different times, depending on the brainwashing and the mood of the people. Nothing major ever changes, but the people are led to believe, that they actually have a choice.

Maybe, what has been happening in Thailand (different colours of protests aiming to change the government, through "power of the people"), should happen in Canada and the US as well. Then maybe, next time, we won't be getting robbed, for billions of dollars of our tax money, to bail out rich corporations and banks?

Of course, in North America, we are too docile and brainwashed, to get out on the streets to overthrow our brand of blood sucking parasites. That's where medications, such as anti-depressants and gun control come in, to keep the people neutered.

Just my, (not so) humble opinion

Cheers

[geriatrickid]

way2muchcoffee, thank you for you reference to laws that were written. However, another aspect that must be considered is the legitimacy of the law and the reasons for the application. If the laws are capriciously applied or if they are applied by an illegitimate power, then the law may be deemed to have no validity. There are some that will argue that the current government has come about as a result of an illegal act, a military coup, and therefore has no authority. I won't go down that route, because we'll just disagree and there has to be some semblance of maintaining order or else anarchy will reign. Please note however, that the USA had Jim Crow laws and there was a sign in the park where my family would play that read No Dogs and No Chinese. The sign came down after the Communists took the city.

Let's look at what you wrote;

Section 62: There has been no armed assembly. Peace and order is in place, as evidenced by the lack of destruction to property and the peaceful comportment of the rally goers.

Section 63: The rally has not disrupted the administration of the country nor the consistency in the provision of

public services. The quality of public services continues to be crappy.

In respect to the need to protect the people it can be argued that the Red shirts are the people. they are the ones that keep the country running by the sweat of their brow. They are the ones that are paying the "tribute" to the Bangkok elite by way of usury, rice distribution monopolies and restricted land ownership.

[Dodobird]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/gr...108372992525155

this facebook group against the house dissolution has more than 140,000 members, thats double what the reds had out marching yesterday.

Can someone guess what will be RedShirt's membership status as at todate?

[FreedomDude]

I would just like to offer a CHEERS for the sandwich shop Au Bon Pain - Siam. I just got back from a stroll amongst the enthusiastic, peaceful, nonthreatening Red Shirts down near Central World and Paragon. Amidst all of the closed and shuttered shopping malls and restaurants, Au Bon Pain remains open and operating as if it were a normal day. The fear mongering over the invasion of the Reds is completely ridiculous. Hats off to Au Bon Pain!

Non-threatening? Can we assume from this that you either cannot understand Thai or that you have not heard the threats from the red leadership?

Netfan - don't resort to cherry picking --- if all the other shops are shuttered it means that the Thais that own those shops do not consider the reds non-threatening. It does not mean that it is a normal day.

Um, ok, let me go ask my wife if the Reds were saying anything today that the shopowners could conceivably interpret as threatening to their businesses or employeees safety. Wait a sec...be right back.

...

...

...

I'm afraid the answer is: NO! Nothing was said that retail owners should be afraid of.

These guys have absolutely no history of vandalism and theft. Ok, they did burn some buses last year when thousands of troops, M16s in hand, shoved them out of the Victory Monument area (i witnessed some of that first hand, too). I'll give you that. They've never engaged in mass looting and destruction of private businesses on any significant level whatsoever.

[Wesley]

The news page says police will stop reds mobilising to silom.

Is this the conflict that so many on this forum (and so many high up on both sides) want?

It seems like only a matter of time.

Wandered all round the red site at CBD earlier. Numbers were lower than I expected but it was noon and they were growing. Mood was basically fun, with lots of music and dancing. Rhetoric from stage did not sound as impassioned as when I was at democracy monument a week ago. Again the reds were welcoming and smiling to this farang (yes I realise they might be different if I were a pink-shirted chinese-thai). Spoke with a few with different levels of English and they seem pleased that someone will hear their voice. If only they knew how insignificant I am

The feeling was positive throughout. Also some were right into it and some were just there and kinda disinterested.

The only time I felt uncomfortable was when a dude from Udon was trying to get me to help him through water at people from the back of his truck (Songkran style). I took lots of pictures and received lots of smiles.

It would be sad if these genuine, peaceful thais get caught up in the big men's games and get hurt.

My favourite bit was when I nipped into Platinum for aircon and juice and I could see the Isaan women checking out the fashions in the shops. Sweet..

[jdinasia]

way2muchcoffee, thank you for you reference to laws that were written. However, another aspect that must be considered is the legitimacy of the law and the reasons for the application. If the laws are capriciously applied or if they are applied by an illegitimate power, then the law may be deemed to have no validity. There are some that will argue that the current government has come about as a result of an illegal act, a military coup, and therefore has no authority. I won't go down that route, because we'll just disagree and there has to be some semblance of maintaining order or else anarchy will reign. Please note however, that the USA had Jim Crow laws and there was a sign in the park where my family would play that read No Dogs and No Chinese. The sign came down after the Communists took the city.

Let's look at what you wrote;

Section 62: There has been no armed assembly. Peace and order is in place, as evidenced by the lack of destruction to property and the peaceful comportment of the rally goers.

Section 63: The rally has not disrupted the administration of the country nor the consistency in the provision of

public services. The quality of public services continues to be crappy.

In respect to the need to protect the people it can be argued that the Red shirts are the people. they are the ones that keep the country running by the sweat of their brow. They are the ones that are paying the "tribute" to the Bangkok elite by way of usury, rice distribution monopolies and restricted land ownership.

More cherry-picking. Not quoting the full article and just saying things like "without arms" while the whole article states when that "right" may be abridged.

The "illegitimate" government horse won't run since this government didn't come about from a coup. It came about from a vote in Parliament.

[Neurath]

way2muchcoffee, thank you for you reference to laws that were written. However, another aspect that must be considered is the legitimacy of the law and the reasons for the application. If the laws are capriciously applied or if they are applied by an illegitimate power, then the law may be deemed to have no validity. There are some that will argue that the current government has come about as a result of an illegal act, a military coup, and therefore has no authority. I won't go down that route, because we'll just disagree and there has to be some semblance of maintaining order or else anarchy will reign. Please note however, that the USA had Jim Crow laws and there was a sign in the park where my family would play that read No Dogs and No Chinese. The sign came down after the Communists took the city.

Let's look at what you wrote;

Section 62: There has been no armed assembly. Peace and order is in place, as evidenced by the lack of destruction to property and the peaceful comportment of the rally goers.

Section 63: The rally has not disrupted the administration of the country nor the consistency in the provision of

public services. The quality of public services continues to be crappy.

In respect to the need to protect the people it can be argued that the Red shirts are the people. they are the ones that keep the country running by the sweat of their brow. They are the ones that are paying the "tribute" to the Bangkok elite by way of usury, rice distribution monopolies and restricted land ownership.

I had heard a rumor that the sign was a myth?

[The Public Garden was closed to Chinese people between 1890 and 1928, and according to a popular myth, a sign at the park's gate read "No dogs or Chinese allowed". However, there is no evidence that such a sign ever existed. Wikipedia]

What Thai law is it that you're comparing to Jim Crow laws - I mean specifically, since if it can be identified and stated explicitly I don't think there would be much opposition to changing it.

Are you really stating that up-county money lenders are working for the Bangkok Elite?

[hammered]

way2muchcoffee, thank you for you reference to laws that were written. However, another aspect that must be considered is the legitimacy of the law and the reasons for the application. If the laws are capriciously applied or if they are applied by an illegitimate power, then the law may be deemed to have no validity. There are some that will argue that the current government has come about as a result of an illegal act, a military coup, and therefore has no authority. I won't go down that route, because we'll just disagree and there has to be some semblance of maintaining order or else anarchy will reign. Please note however, that the USA had Jim Crow laws and there was a sign in the park where my family would play that read No Dogs and No Chinese. The sign came down after the Communists took the city.

Let's look at what you wrote;

Section 62: There has been no armed assembly. Peace and order is in place, as evidenced by the lack of destruction to property and the peaceful comportment of the rally goers.

Section 63: The rally has not disrupted the administration of the country nor the consistency in the provision of

public services. The quality of public services continues to be crappy.

In respect to the need to protect the people it can be argued that the Red shirts are the people. they are the ones that keep the country running by the sweat of their brow. They are the ones that are paying the "tribute" to the Bangkok elite by way of usury, rice distribution monopolies and restricted land ownership.

I had heard a rumor that the sign was a myth?

[The Public Garden was closed to Chinese people between 1890 and 1928, and according to a popular myth, a sign at the park's gate read "No dogs or Chinese allowed". However, there is no evidence that such a sign ever existed. Wikipedia]

What Thai law is it that you're comparing to Jim Crow laws - I mean specifically, since if it can be identified and stated explicitly I don't think there would be much opposition to changing it.

Are you really stating that up-county money lenders are working for the Bangkok Elite?

Upcoutnry moneylendrs, millers, controllers of transport etc are the business domain of the feudal baronms upcountry. I think we aqll know what party they most of them are in

[hammered]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

[Insight]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

Guess we can assume the silly march is going ahead then

[Neurath]

way2muchcoffee, thank you for you reference to laws that were written. However, another aspect that must be considered is the legitimacy of the law and the reasons for the application. If the laws are capriciously applied or if they are applied by an illegitimate power, then the law may be deemed to have no validity. There are some that will argue that the current government has come about as a result of an illegal act, a military coup, and therefore has no authority. I won't go down that route, because we'll just disagree and there has to be some semblance of maintaining order or else anarchy will reign. Please note however, that the USA had Jim Crow laws and there was a sign in the park where my family would play that read No Dogs and No Chinese. The sign came down after the Communists took the city.

Let's look at what you wrote;

Section 62: There has been no armed assembly. Peace and order is in place, as evidenced by the lack of destruction to property and the peaceful comportment of the rally goers.

Section 63: The rally has not disrupted the administration of the country nor the consistency in the provision of

public services. The quality of public services continues to be crappy.

In respect to the need to protect the people it can be argued that the Red shirts are the people. they are the ones that keep the country running by the sweat of their brow. They are the ones that are paying the "tribute" to the Bangkok elite by way of usury, rice distribution monopolies and restricted land ownership.

I had heard a rumor that the sign was a myth?

[The Public Garden was closed to Chinese people between 1890 and 1928, and according to a popular myth, a sign at the park's gate read "No dogs or Chinese allowed". However, there is no evidence that such a sign ever existed. Wikipedia]

What Thai law is it that you're comparing to Jim Crow laws - I mean specifically, since if it can be identified and stated explicitly I don't think there would be much opposition to changing it.

Are you really stating that up-county money lenders are working for the Bangkok Elite?

Upcoutnry moneylendrs, millers, controllers of transport etc are the business domain of the feudal baronms upcountry. I think we aqll know what party they most of them are in

Transfer payments from the Central Government to the North East are, appropriately, massive compared to the tax receipts coming from the region for the simple reason that a huge percentage of those living there are below the tax free threshold of THB150,00pa. A sizable part of these funds go into the hands of feudal barons you mention. Same party affiliation you mention also.

[Neurath]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

Guess we can assume the silly march is going ahead then

Bad joke I know, but marching to Silom? Family reunion perhaps?

[hammered]

^ A lot of it goes through local administration too. Yesterday the other media source reproted on budget shortfalls by a few northern provinces for Songkhran activities as money had been advanced to fund protests but nobody wanted to repay it too quickly. That could be another reason for a very quick election.

[CLOD]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

Guess we can assume the silly march is going ahead then

Did the illegal occupation of govenment house and the airport by the PAD and yellowshirts go ahead?

[hammered]

^ A lot of it goes through local administration too. Yesterday the other media source reproted on budget shortfalls by a few northern provinces for Songkhran activities as money had been advanced to fund protests but nobody wanted to repay it too quickly. That could be another reason for a very quick election.

[nadavbkk]

it safe to go tonight to beer garden soi 7 ?

[monkfish]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/gr...108372992525155

this facebook group against the house dissolution has more than 140,000 members, thats double what the reds had out marching yesterday.

Can someone guess what will be RedShirt's membership status as at todate?

Lol Do you think your average rice farmer has a facebook account?

[kurtgruen]

Are you really stating that up-county money lenders are working for the Bangkok Elite?

I know only one money lender in Chiang Mai personally (and no, I don't borrow money ;-) He is a mid rank Red Shirt Police officer. Him and his wife are both strong "Red Shirt" supporters. They lend at 20% interest (for terms of a month or less). They work for themselves and their own greed.

One thing, I have noticed, living in the North or Thailand for six years, is that people will step on each other, if they get the opportunity. If someone has been abused by loan sharks for years, then suddenly comes into money, they will do the same thing to somebody less fortunate. I know that from personal experience.

As long as money is #1, thoughout Thai society, not much will change. The rich will keep stepping on the poor, cute young girls will keep having sex with smelly, wrinkly old foreigners and people will continue to step on each other, for the almighty dollar, or rather Baht

I believe a change in values in needed, rather than a change in government, at this time. You can change the government every week, if you want, but nothing will change, if peoples thinking and belief system doesn't change.

Yes, I agree, the system needs to change, but the people trying to change it right now, will just create another version of the same crap (or worse), if they get their way.

[Insight]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

Guess we can assume the silly march is going ahead then

Did the illegal occupation of govenment house and the airport by the PAD and yellowshirts go ahead?

Yes. What's it like down there?

[dobadoy]

If there is any truth to the rumour that the leaders : Jatuporn, Veera, Dr.Weng etc., slept in the Hyatt last night while the footsoldiers kissed the pavement - then you might understand what I am saying.

I should sorely like to know if this is true. If it is, I can't understand why they weren't arrested. having this mornings' news show them being led out of an 'elitist' (sic) hotel while the upcountry folk slept in the dirt would have shown the grass roots what everyone else already knows - that the red leaders represent the status quo (with a change of captains), not some new found utopic ideal.

[scorecard]

Um, ok, let me go ask my wife if the Reds were saying anything today that the shopowners could conceivably interpret as threatening to their businesses or employeees safety. Wait a sec...be right back.

...

...

...

I'm afraid the answer is: NO! Nothing was said that retail owners should be afraid of.

These guys have absolutely no history of vandalism and theft. Ok, they did burn some buses last year when thousands of troops, M16s in hand, shoved them out of the Victory Monument area (i witnessed some of that first hand, too). I'll give you that. They've never engaged in mass looting and destruction of private businesses on any significant level whatsoever.

You make them sound so meek and mild and so polite.

Sorry, don't agree and I wonder if your totally covering the subject. This is more than just 'have they ever looted any businesses' when it comes to deciding whether to close your shop or not.

You seem to have forgotten the numerous threats of violence made by their murky leaders, and by sae daeng who is surely lurking somewhere just behind the curtains, and you seem to have forgotten the blood thirsty mob, supervised totally by one of their thug leaders who tried to get PM Abhisit out of his car to beat him up in pattaya and the other incident where they pulled the PMs driver out of the car and did severly beat him up. And the CM 51 gp, a long list of violence....

I would most certainly lock up my business and I ceratainly don't blame the many others that have done so.

[invex]

@ kurtgruen,

Agree, for 100%.

[johncitizen]

If anyone is interested in some photos from the rallies last night (they are pretty good.):

http://picasaweb.google.com/prainn999/32553#

[elcent]

saw many North and North-Easterners today in food stalls far away from the main scenes. Nobody wore red though, but they all came from the very poor category. it was an unusual sight in these places. they behaved all nicely and I'm pretty sure that these are not trouble makers of any kind, they just want their pleas heard and acted on. I don't think that they have Thaksin at heart but their own survival.

I think it's probably good to have the hard core Thakinesians exposed as well as the hard core PADards. It's time to separate those from public and the country can move on. Give the needy a fair chance.

Thaksin does nothing else than to have them bend over backwards time and again. Somebody please tell them.

Tears came to my eyes when I saw them today. Most are young and looked ill and skinny.

Edited April 4, 2010 by elcent

[Insight]

If there is any truth to the rumour that the leaders : Jatuporn, Veera, Dr.Weng etc., slept in the Hyatt last night while the footsoldiers kissed the pavement - then you might understand what I am saying.

I should sorely like to know if this is true. If it is, I can't understand why they weren't arrested. having this mornings' news show them being led out of an 'elitist' (sic) hotel while the upcountry folk slept in the dirt would have shown the grass roots what everyone else already knows - that the red leaders represent the status quo (with a change of captains), not some new found utopic ideal.

I doubt this is true. Surely they would of been killed in their sleep by the hotel management?

[animatic]

More double standards

EDIT: Latest TVisa news updated just reminded me of the fact that Thailand still only has an ACTING Police Chief. I see the Third Hand hasn't lost any influence over the Government...

EDITEDIT: Kind of fitting, considering Thailand only has an ACTING Government in the first place.

1) What third hand?

2)The last Acting government was Thaksin after he dissolved parliament.

No to 2 ) there was a relatively nameless PPP aparatchik who held Acting PM chair

for around 3 weeks in Dec 2008 until a new government, Abhisit's came into being.

Then he faded quickly from the scene.

[dobadoy]

Sae Daeng has, according to the other media source, just said that Thjaksin is now going full out to force a disolution an dhas ordered the red shirts to not stop but to just keep going until they succeed. This is going to be very interesting.

I wasnt' aware thaksin had any other song...isn't this what he's been singing all along?