Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[jdinasia]

Hmmm the BKK airport was closed for 8 days ... not three weeks. The AoT closed it and the AoT board blamed the AoT chief at the airport. but this is about the current mess as was pointed out to me in PM

It takes a very stubborn person you just keep spewing the same bold faced lie relentlessy no matter how many times it is shoved right back in there face.

"The PAD has completely taken control of Suvarnabhumi Airport so any airline that wants to take off or land must seek permission from us directly,'' said Chaiwat Sinswuwong, one of the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Feel free to check the links --- the AoT surrendered the airport. The AoT board blames the AoT chief at that was there at the time not the PAD. (That will certainly play well during the trial of the PAD leadership!) Quoting what came afterwards does not change that fact. They simply could have moved the PAD to the parking deck and allowed a few leaders in but the guy panicked. There is no Lie and I have provided the proof of that. You just bring up what follows.

The differences between then and now are pretty simple.

1) Different government that has NOT relied upon RDX laced chinese military ordinance to kill and maim.

2) Different players with the current group talking about STARTING violence and using guerilla groups.

Again this thread is about today --- the typical redshirt board member always wants to make it about the PAD, but that was under a different government and a different time.

Final point --- The PPP could have dissolved parliament even the day before they were disbanded, they didn't and are now leading the redshirts on the streets of BKK.

[elcent]

tulsathit: PM: We want to persuade first.

Sun Apr 04 2010 20:56:58 GMT+0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)

ya right, but yellow comes first or else you're lost. so please Mr PM one by one and god-speed.

[TheOldWolf]

Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

I thought this was what this thread is about, but maybe I am wrong

[moresomekl]

Sorry to disagree.... But...it IS ultimately all about Thaksin....

I don't dispute that there may be all kinds of different interests and motivations involved on the part of the so-to-speak foot soldiers in the Red Shirt movement.

But the leaders and organizers and funding for it all come from people who are there to put Thaksin back in power, regain his lost fortune, and to try to quash the court rulings against him....

If it weren't for all that, none of this Red Shirt stuff, at least the way it is now, would be happening.

Initially it might have been but now its not anymore.

I know this upsets many as they love the Thaksin excuse, but sorry, its now about The Reds movement for democracy.

This is why Thaksin, rightly, has been less and less involved as he needs to now fade into the background while keeping his supporters involved, but allowing the new faces to take over.

The local English press with their controllers and bias will still try to manipulate things to say its all about him, but its not, he represents a symbol of the unjust way the elite works against people who stand up to it, but he is not the sole cause now, the Reds have moved on and that was signaled by the government having negotiations.

That was the point at which the Reds moved into being a "political worry" for the elite.

i disagree, thaksin is the one who excogitated the idea of the class war becasue he knew that he could instiigate the poor majority but surely behind the scene he is more worried about his frozen asset and will do everything to get it back (soon!!!), while he sits back and relax and watch thailand self destroy. if he is really fighting for democracy why don't he go back to thailand and join that reds to demonstrate?

Right . No much democracy in thai jails i heard . Thaksin could help

[Maestro]

Let's hope that the threat of read-shirt leader Arisman Pongreungrong to vandalise Bangkok with petrol bombs won't come true:

--

Maestro

[Cayenne]

THE NATION: Deputy Bkk Gov Pornthep Techapaiboon says 7 BMA staff taking care of mobile toilets were attacked by red-shirts at Phanfa Bridge yesterday.

THE NATION: BMA has pulled out the service and only provides knock-down type toilets at the rally site. BMA has filed a charge with police.

this is when the

That explains why they moved to Ratchprasong then, so they can upgrade their toilets Seriously, the BMA has been more than a gracious host in providing toliets to people who want to destroy the government. The decent thing to do for the red shirts would be to at least give thanks to the BMA staff working there for over 2 weeks now.

Oh I forgot. Decency and red shirts don't go hand in hand.

[bonobo]

Posts have been deleted for flaming.

Let's keep it civil and stave off the personal attacks, please.

Thanks.

[Cayenne]

Sorry to disagree.... But...it IS ultimately all about Thaksin....

I don't dispute that there may be all kinds of different interests and motivations involved on the part of the so-to-speak foot soldiers in the Red Shirt movement.

But the leaders and organizers and funding for it all come from people who are there to put Thaksin back in power, regain his lost fortune, and to try to quash the court rulings against him....

If it weren't for all that, none of this Red Shirt stuff, at least the way it is now, would be happening.

Initially it might have been but now its not anymore.

I know this upsets many as they love the Thaksin excuse, but sorry, its now about The Reds movement for democracy.

This is why Thaksin, rightly, has been less and less involved as he needs to now fade into the background while keeping his supporters involved, but allowing the new faces to take over.

The local English press with their controllers and bias will still try to manipulate things to say its all about him, but its not, he represents a symbol of the unjust way the elite works against people who stand up to it, but he is not the sole cause now, the Reds have moved on and that was signaled by the government having negotiations.

That was the point at which the Reds moved into being a "political worry" for the elite.

i disagree, thaksin is the one who excogitated the idea of the class war becasue he knew that he could instiigate the poor majority but surely behind the scene he is more worried about his frozen asset and will do everything to get it back (soon!!!), while he sits back and relax and watch thailand self destroy. if he is really fighting for democracy why don't he go back to thailand and join that reds to demonstrate?

Right . No much democracy in thai jails i heard . Thaksin could help

I totally agree. Thaksin should come back, go to jail, and then talk about democracy from inside the jail. At least he could now claimed he served jail time like Mandela

[elcent]

can somebody check on the noise level in the nearby police hospital. I guess there's maybe an issue there.

anybody?

[animatic]

Respect most all poor people,, allowing that in all socio-economic classes

there are those of such low moralities as to not allow much respect be their due.

From the 10 baht in pocket thief who steels from children to the avaricious billionaire,

not caring what he does to reach his goals, INDIVIDUALS deserve basic respect,

but individuals also can lose that respect by their actions.

There are many worthy and deserving of better straits poor,

who work hard and only their circumstances hold them back,

People such as these deserve our respect, and as in the mining towns

of Northern France a school system that is on a par with the capitals,

for ALL children. This is the end goal of most just societies, giving each

couple's children the chance to improve their lot above their parents lot.

Can we do this with the greedy stem to stern of the government food chain?

Can we do this while allowing those that most profit on the poorest,

to be their representatives in the national representations via electoral machinations?

How is allowing this travesty seen as respectful?

[kuffki]

There are a number of ways government can disperse the crowds without even having to se force.

Just like in any company, when they want for someone to resign rather then having to fire that person, company management does anything possible to make that person's life hel_l.

Government can apply same principles here.

-Stop supply of toilets. Yes they will start to use the streets, well few hours later not only they will be standing in their own "shit" but it will smell.

-Cut off all food and drinks supplies.Reds have blocked the roads, fine do not allow in any delivery's May sound inhuman, but if anyone in the crowd needs water or wants to leave-they are free to walk away

-Bring in 2-3 helicopters and have very loud speakers to either asking people to move on or play pro government speeches. If the helicopter speakers are so loud that Reds can not hear their own leaders, that may force some to walk away, not to mention headaches it will create.

I am sure there are things government can do to make crowds life very difficult.

On the topic of Airport seizuer.Right or wrong is not relevant any longer. it is past, so let past be the past.

Without taking sides, i must say, at least PAD had the brain and decency to apologize not only to Thai people but to foreigners also. While Red shirts to my knoweledge have not apologized to foreigners and tourists and right now they are directly causing problems for foreign tourists.

Personally, i would prefer to be stuck in the country due to airport problem but free to move around and do whatever. Over being stuck in the hotel room and unable to shop or travel around the city.

Are you sure you are not taking side ?

Well i am not Thai, so it really makes no difference to me who wins the war, but i did comment on the manner in which the war is fought

[BKKer2010]

Let's hope that the threat of read-shirt leader Arisman Pongreungrong to vandalise Bangkok with petrol bombs won't come true:

--

Maestro

Thanks ... wow, this is crazy and scary.

[elcent]

Respect most all poor people,, allowing that in all socio-economic classes

there are those of such low moralities as to not allow much respect be their due.

From the 10 baht in pocket thief who steels from children to the avaricious billionaire,

not caring what he does to reach his goals, INDIVIDUALS deserve basic respect,

but individuals also can lose that respect by their actions.

There are many worthy and deserving of better straits poor,

who work hard and only their circumstances hold them back,

People such as these deserve our respect, and as in the mining towns

of Northern France a school system that is on a par with the capitals,

for ALL children. This is the end goal of most just societies, giving each

couple's children the chance to improve their lot above their parents lot.

Can we do this with the greedy stem to stern of the government food chain?

Can we do this while allowing those that most profit on the poorest,

to be their representatives in the national representations via electoral machinations?

How is allowing this travesty seen as respectful?

It was also said that you must love the poor very much in order that they can forgive you. I think that was about 300 years ago.

[kuffki]

Let's hope that the threat of read-shirt leader Arisman Pongreungrong to vandalise Bangkok with petrol bombs won't come true:

--

Maestro

True that! scary thought. With amount of traffic blocks- fire brigades will never get anywhere intime

[elcent]

Let's hope that the threat of read-shirt leader Arisman Pongreungrong to vandalise Bangkok with petrol bombs won't come true:

--

Maestro

True that! scary thought. With amount of traffic blocks- fire brigades will never get anywhere intime

thanks to Nero of the 21st century. Thaksin!!! he loves it ...

[LuckyFive8888]

^ and they are saying that they are non-violent. i hope they don't really do it, i mean they are coward anyway.

[BKKer2010]

THE NATION: Deputy Bkk Gov Pornthep Techapaiboon says 7 BMA staff taking care of mobile toilets were attacked by red-shirts at Phanfa Bridge yesterday.

THE NATION: BMA has pulled out the service and only provides knock-down type toilets at the rally site. BMA has filed a charge with police.

this is when the

That explains why they moved to Ratchprasong then, so they can upgrade their toilets Seriously, the BMA has been more than a gracious host in providing toliets to people who want to destroy the government. The decent thing to do for the red shirts would be to at least give thanks to the BMA staff working there for over 2 weeks now.

Oh I forgot. Decency and red shirts don't go hand in hand.

I cannot believe how everyone has been so accommodating to this mob.

However, I think the PM is probably playing the right political move in waiting for them to strike first blood (actual blood). He is starting to real things in and although he has balked at sending people in to break up this unlawful assembly, they will not be able to take this show to different locations without them (reds) having to confront police already there.

People are fed up with this already and the Reds keep digging themselves a bigger hole with their threats but once they push through police barricades, you can bet that the police and pm will take action. Regretfully, I am confident this will happen because the Reds (maybe Thaksin) seem determined to make sure this escalates into violence.

Edited April 4, 2010 by BKKer2010

[jdinasia]

"it certainly isn't out of line to use water cannon and other non-lethal crowd dispersal techniques"

"Then do what has to be done"

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

When you call for actual violence .. then your opinion CAN hurt people. (That may be why there is a rule against it on ThaiVisa.com)

Can anyone guess who wrote these conflicting items?

Can anyone guess who thinks violence is OK against people he disagrees with but never justified if it is against someone he agrees with?

O HAIL THEE! Grand Wizard of HYPOCRISY!

Nice that you can't read at all or choose to cherry pick what you read

After having given a lawful order and having repeated it then using NON-LETHAL (note -- I did not claim it was non-violent) methods is appropriate. Yes, I may APPEAR to be backtracking some, but the situation is different now isn't it? They are not just blocking a street and it is not a Peaceful Protest. Redshirt leaders have spoken out at this point with a plan to Start Violence, they have spoken about a guerilla force, they have one who talked about grenades just before grenade attacks started again (not his first time), they have one that told his followers to bring empty bottles so they could be filled with petrol to burn bkk down.

That is a far cry from the other situation now isn't it.

(but at least you are no longer just talking ABOUT me as you did in so many posts that I was not party to ... instead you are just stalking me now

[britmaveric]

Great peaceful demonstration. I think Reds are doing a great job.. I would like to see more singing/dancing mind you.

[elcent]

Great peaceful demonstration. I think Reds are doing a great job.. I would like to see more singing/dancing mind you.

sorry to say that

wrong concept, wrong time, wrong people equals deception.

If Thaksin can show 5 million people I'll talk to K Abhisit, K Prem directly

Edited April 4, 2010 by elcent

[Insight]

Am wondering what that area will be like tomorrow? Chid Lom, Lang Suan and other surrounding sois are full of offices containing the typical BKK urban middle class.

Perhaps it's these people who the reds are now digging in for?

[BKKer2010]

Nice that you can't read at all or choose to cherry pick what you read

After having given a lawful order and having repeated it then using NON-LETHAL (note -- I did not claim it was non-violent) methods is appropriate. Yes, I may APPEAR to be backtracking some, but the situation is different now isn't it? They are not just blocking a street and it is not a Peaceful Protest. Redshirt leaders have spoken out at this point with a plan to Start Violence, they have spoken about a guerilla force, they have one who talked about grenades just before grenade attacks started again (not his first time), they have one that told his followers to bring empty bottles so they could be filled with petrol to burn bkk down.

That is a far cry from the other situation now isn't it.

(but at least you are no longer just talking ABOUT me as you did in so many posts that I was not party to ... instead you are just stalking me now

You sounds like a person with integrity and I think it is very cool you have remained open minded towards this situation and are able to adjust your opinions accordingly. We might all take a lesson from you.

**edited post by deleting previous thread (TV would not let me post for some reason)

[elcent]

Sad thing is that many in the army, also those in leading position longing for national socialism.

[elcent]

talk to you tomorrow guys, nothing to fear than truth. Stay vigilant.

[SiriusBlack1]

If Abhisit would just step down, and let the people choose who they want to lead them, as should have been done in the first place, none of this would have been happening. The only legitimate leader is the one who is genuinely chosen by the people.

[Johpa]

i disagree, thaksin is the one who excogitated the idea of the class war becasue he knew that he could instiigate the poor majority but surely behind the scene he is more worried about his frozen asset and will do everything to get it back (soon!!!), while he sits back and relax and watch thailand self destroy. if he is really fighting for democracy why don't he go back to thailand and join that reds to demonstrate?

Au contraire my misspelling wordsmith, the class war started long before Thaksin came into power. But most of the battles have been waged by the elite against the poor, just as they have been waged in the USA. For a better insight into the long running struggles in Thailand I suggest reading Chai-Anan and Morrell's fine book on the political battles of the 1970s: Political Conflict in Thailand. Alas the extreme prejudice of the brutal response back then by the Bangkok elite against the rural poor, who dared to organize themselves, stifled any political activity by the poor for an entire generation. Thaksin may be the poster boy, but he is not the underlying issue.

[SpoliaOpima]

Hmmm the BKK airport was closed for 8 days ... not three weeks. The AoT closed it and the AoT board blamed the AoT chief at the airport. but this is about the current mess as was pointed out to me in PM

It takes a very stubborn person you just keep spewing the same bold faced lie relentlessy no matter how many times it is shoved right back in there face.

"The PAD has completely taken control of Suvarnabhumi Airport so any airline that wants to take off or land must seek permission from us directly,'' said Chaiwat Sinswuwong, one of the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Feel free to check the links --- the AoT surrendered the airport. The AoT board blames the AoT chief at that was there at the time not the PAD. (That will certainly play well during the trial of the PAD leadership!) Quoting what came afterwards does not change that fact. They simply could have moved the PAD to the parking deck and allowed a few leaders in but the guy panicked. There is no Lie and I have provided the proof of that. You just bring up what follows.

The differences between then and now are pretty simple.

1) Different government that has NOT relied upon RDX laced chinese military ordinance to kill and maim.

2) Different players with the current group talking about STARTING violence and using guerilla groups.

Again this thread is about today --- the typical redshirt board member always wants to make it about the PAD, but that was under a different government and a different time.

Final point --- The PPP could have dissolved parliament even the day before they were disbanded, they didn't and are now leading the redshirts on the streets of BKK.

Not only did the AOT voluntarily close the airport, those who work for the AOT in higher offices say that Thaksin himself asked them to, knowing it would cost the PAD vital public support.

UDD's call for the dissolution of Parliament and a snap election are nothing more than a smokescreen. The UDD leadership must know they will probably lose. They simply want the government to cut a deal with Thaksin so that they can get paid. Everyone by now knows that the Reds have been told that every demonstrator will receive 100,000 baht if the charges against Thaksin are reversed.

Either way, anyone who has been here the past six years knows that a snap election has more chance of failure than success. Six years ago a PAD rally of 50,000 at Sanam Luang demanded that Thaksin resign as prime minister and call new elections, after he sold Shin Corp to a Singaporean company.

They were successful, and the ensuing elections were a disaster. They were annulled, leaving the nation with a weak caretaker administration that fell into an unstable inertia, providing the excuse for the September 2006 coup.

It's illogical to think that dissolving Parliament and calling new elections under mob pressure will work today where it has failed in the past.

Edited April 4, 2010 by SpoliaOpima

[LuckyFive8888]

If Apieceachit would just step down, and let the people choose who they want to lead them, as should have been done in the first place, none of this would have been happening. The only legitimate leader is the one who is genuinely chosen by the people.

great, what about the other 65,000,000 thais who are against the parliament dissolution? aphisit has got support more than the number of Reds supporting Thanksin. If the democrats loose support you don't have to tell to step down they will disappear by themselves.

[MellowYellow]

Feel free to check the links --- the AoT surrendered the airport. The AoT board blames the AoT chief at that was there at the time not the PAD. (That will certainly play well during the trial of the PAD leadership!) Quoting what came afterwards does not change that fact. They simply could have moved the PAD to the parking deck and allowed a few leaders in but the guy panicked. There is no Lie and I have provided the proof of that. You just bring up what follows.

The differences between then and now are pretty simple.

1) Different government that has NOT relied upon RDX laced chinese military ordinance to kill and maim.

2) Different players with the current group talking about STARTING violence and using guerilla groups.

Again this thread is about today --- the typical redshirt board member always wants to make it about the PAD, but that was under a different government and a different time.

Final point --- The PPP could have dissolved parliament even the day before they were disbanded, they didn't and are now leading the redshirts on the streets of BKK.

Your dishonesty knows no bounds.

An armed mob seizes the airport. One of their leaders says they seized the airport but YOU say they didn't seize the airport?

Let me guess. In 2006, when confronted with a military coup backed with tanks and rifles, the government "decided" to dissolve itself? Power wasn't seized by the military?

Again this thread is about today --- the typical redshirt board member always wants to make it about the PAD, but that was under a different government and a different time.

Yes, yes. Mus't bring of the recent past and direct parallels which highlight your hypocrisy.

So, what you are saying, yet again, is it is OK to use violence on people you disagree with but NOT OK to use violence on people you disagree with.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's right or wrong for police violence. Which is it?

Try and deflect all you want. "it's a different time, yada yada yada."

Which is correct?

Water CANNON are not violent? Do you care to take yourself (if you are in Thailand) and your family and put your bodies in the way of some water CANNON to demonstrate how they are not violent? (Granted they are usually less than LETHAL but not always --- however they are certainly violent!)

You are actually comparing getting hit by water CANNON as taking a shower? You should gladly be willing to be a test subject for that then!

You think "water is not violent"? Were you alive on Boxing Day 2004?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and this

If they are blocking a street who cares? If it is a peaceful protest then using force is not an appropriate response.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and this

When you call for actual violence .. then your opinion CAN hurt people. (That may be why there is a rule against it on ThaiVisa.com)

OR your updated stance

" it certainly isn't out of line to use water cannon and other non-lethal crowd dispersal techniques. "

"do what has to be done to remove the crowd"

"...give the crowd a lawful order to disperse ... then repeat it and repeat it again. Then do what has to be done."

[Jerrytheyoung]

Good evening Guys,

OUF!....As we been assured that the Businesses will go on tomorrow, I am pleased for the Elite who can go and choose a car tomorrow at Siam paragon between a Maserati, a Ferrari or a common Porsche....

Good night