Thai Protesters Target Bangkok's Tourist Centre

[jts-khorat]

Siam Paragon - Bangkok's upscale shopping mall - said it had lost sales totalling 60 to 70 million baht due to the occupation of Ratchaprasong intersection by the anti-government protesters on Saturday.

Other as with the airport closure, this time we have a price tag immediately. And different to then, this time it is not state agencies, foreigners or normal Bangkok citizens who are inconvenienced, the price tag for the losses is carried by the rich elite of Bangkok (eg the owners of those shopping malls and 5 Star hotels).

Thaksin rubbing a lot of people 'with names' the wrong way. This time, I see lawsuits coming much faster -- and with much more pull.

And this time, I guess, the government has really no other choice than to move.

[kuffki]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Two months is long enough? I hope you are available as an organizer! Candidates have to file and be checked - a few years ago a few were caught using false credentials. More importantly, security has to be in place to ensure the safety of candidates in all areas - don't forget theres a bit of a problem down south as well. Will there be international observers? If so, from where? US, UN, EU? When will they arrive- before the election to check on vote buying? But first and most importantly, will Thaksin approve, because the Reds can't agree to anything without his say so.

And lets not forget allegedly the pro-Thaksin side also wants "to make certain arrangements with the military", which is precisely why they want this election in such a ridiculously short time frame.

It's gone 9pm now. The reds won't budge. The BKK residents are fed up.

Its now been extended to tomorrow for second round of negotiations, but one of the leaders predicts 3am army will start to move them out. He also did make a threat "If the government decides to fire its first bullet at the people the country will be left in dust as well,"

Followed by another

"If authorities use forces against the people the guerilla units could strike back at their own discretion,"

[lannarebirth]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Two months is long enough? I hope you are available as an organizer! Candidates have to file and be checked - a few years ago a few were caught using false credentials. More importantly, security has to be in place to ensure the safety of candidates in all areas - don't forget theres a bit of a problem down south as well. Will there be international observers? If so, from where? US, UN, EU? When will they arrive- before the election to check on vote buying? But first and most importantly, will Thaksin approve, because the Reds can't agree to anything without his say so.

And lets not forget allegedly the pro-Thaksin side also wants "to make certain arrangements with the military", which is precisely why they want this election in such a ridiculously short time frame.

It's gone 9pm now. The reds won't budge. The BKK residents are fed up.

I very seldom see things the same way as Thanong, but I think he nails it this time. Abhisit HAS TO get those people out of there, before Thaksin bombs them himself:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/04/02/entry-1

[Netfan]

Its now been extended to tomorrow for second round of negotiations, but one of the leaders predicts 3am army will start to move them out. He also did make a threat "If the government decides to fire its first bullet at the people the country will be left in dust as well,"

Followed by another

"If authorities use forces against the people the guerilla units could strike back at their own discretion,"

Well that would explain where the grenades have been coming from. These numbskulls just keep giving themselves away.

I doubt the army will move in at night. 7 or 8 a.m. makes more sense.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Netfan

[henryalleman]

Clean up what???? I was at ploenchit, rama 1 and Petchaburi toad at 19.00 hours only a few dozens of red shirts left, this morning at 09.00 hours the same, I saw some caravan driving around dom muang but they hardly hindred the traffiv; In my opinion much to do about nothing, there protest is ending in a big failure.

[Jingthing]

Yep, the time has come to crack some heads, so to speak. The reds are begging for it. Enough is enough. Round em up and arrest them all. There should be consequences for these law breaking hooligans, most who are there only for the money. Make it cost them much more than they made.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[Meridian007]

What about non-violent dispersal techniques? Use of an LRAD or other sonic device could make it unbearable there, and they would have to leave. (Actually, that wiki states that an LRAD has been used in Bangkok before, so the technology is here)

[Jingthing]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[sungod]

What about non-violent dispersal techniques? Use of an LRAD or other sonic device could make it unbearable there, and they would have to leave. (Actually, that wiki states that an LRAD has been used in Bangkok before, so the technology is here)

Absolutely, they have LRAD, heard it being tested at Government House prior to the blood spilling.

[jdinasia]

The 2 month timeframe slipped out of Veeras mouth during the negotiations (a better indication of the UDD's true intentions that the official statements). Translated by Bangkok Pundit on Twitter, so I can't link it for you.

2 months is indeed long enough to prepare a stable transition and a fair election, yet not long enough for the Government to make certain arrangements with the military. Yet as long as the UDD suspect Abhisit is holding out, they'll continue to play hardball and insist on 15 days.

Btw. the Governor of Bangkok has already announced he'll supply the protesters with water, so I daresay he'll continue to supply power.

There are tourists and spectators everywhere, and cutting the power is a recipe for chaos.

Two months is long enough? I hope you are available as an organizer! Candidates have to file and be checked - a few years ago a few were caught using false credentials. More importantly, security has to be in place to ensure the safety of candidates in all areas - don't forget theres a bit of a problem down south as well. Will there be international observers? If so, from where? US, UN, EU? When will they arrive- before the election to check on vote buying? But first and most importantly, will Thaksin approve, because the Reds can't agree to anything without his say so.

And lets not forget allegedly the pro-Thaksin side also wants "to make certain arrangements with the military", which is precisely why they want this election in such a ridiculously short time frame.

It's gone 9pm now. The reds won't budge. The BKK residents are fed up.

Its now been extended to tomorrow for second round of negotiations, but one of the leaders predicts 3am army will start to move them out. He also did make a threat "If the government decides to fire its first bullet at the people the country will be left in dust as well,"

Followed by another

"If authorities use forces against the people the guerilla units could strike back at their own discretion,"

"guerilla units" for the reds? That sure could explain the bombs around town! It also puts an end to any claim of "peaceful reds" AND secures sedition charges against all the leadership.

[kuffki]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

"cut the head and the legs will follow" if leaders are arrested, people will start to disperse. May be not all but the "normal" ones. Leaving the rest to be "cleaned"

[lannarebirth]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

Easy to say, but the Red Shirts hold most of the cards in this game IMO. Much easier to destroy something than build or save something. I wish it wasn't so.

Edited April 3, 2010 by lannarebirth

[frodo]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

Easy to say, but the Red Shirts hold most of the cards in this game IMO. Much easier to destroy something than build or save something. I wish it wasn't so.

Given some other dark figures in their movement, Sae Daeng and Arisiman, they would think nothing of ridding the "Ammats" of their means of mass transportation. Unfortunately, they are at a prime location for carrying that something like that out.

[Meridian007]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

"cut the head and the legs will follow" if leaders are arrested, people will start to disperse. May be not all but the "normal" ones. Leaving the rest to be "cleaned"

Maybe they could clear a way into the leaders with gas or knockout grenades? I've heard that 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or Fentanyl in gas form are both capable of knocking someone out. It's a little dangerous, but it might be a way to arrest the leaders.

[lannarebirth]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

Easy to say, but the Red Shirts hold most of the cards in this game IMO. Much easier to destroy something than build or save something. I wish it wasn't so.

Given some other dark figures in their movement, Sae Daeng and Arisiman, they would think nothing of ridding the "Ammats" of their means of mass transportation. Unfortunately, they are at a prime location for carrying that something like that out.

I wasn't thinking about doing bombings against property. I was thinking that a grenade thrown into their own crowd by their own people would accomplish most of their goals.

[Throatwobbler]

The 2 month thing as I understood it was to dissolve the house in 15 days clearing the way for new elections in 2 months. So they were still not moving from the 15 days demand.

[Insight]

Clean up what???? I was at ploenchit, rama 1 and Petchaburi toad at 19.00 hours only a few dozens of red shirts left, this morning at 09.00 hours the same, I saw some caravan driving around dom muang but they hardly hindred the traffiv; In my opinion much to do about nothing, there protest is ending in a big failure.

Recent twits indicate a heavy presence of reds at Rajawotsit (but nowhere near the figures they're bragging about).

[traderjm]

Lucky me I got stuck in some that traffic this morning on Suk leading up to Ploenchit... lucky I only to turn down Wireless so missed the major issues further up the road.

Odd I didn't see a single person on the side of the road today clapping for the reds or cheering them on, but I sure do see a lot people hurling verbal abuse at them it is very very clear that the majority of the people in the downtown core that I saw today have had enough of the Thugs and want them to get the hel_l out.

Who is really in charge of this band of misfits? This could rate as one the dumbest moves in protest history.

BTW, the REDs I saw today were mostly eating, drinking hanging out joking around... it still appears to be a party.. I guess because the vast majority of them have NO CLUE what they are being paid for but will not look a gift horse in the mouth... even a square jawed one.

[jdinasia]

Whatever it takes, but I do think there should be mass arrests and lawbreakers made to pay. The incentive to be a rent a mob for the puppet master must be stopped.

Easy to say, but the Red Shirts hold most of the cards in this game IMO. Much easier to destroy something than build or save something. I wish it wasn't so.

Given some other dark figures in their movement, Sae Daeng and Arisiman, they would think nothing of ridding the "Ammats" of their means of mass transportation. Unfortunately, they are at a prime location for carrying that something like that out.

I wasn't thinking about doing bombings against property. I was thinking that a grenade thrown into their own crowd by their own people would accomplish most of their goals.

Before this morning that would have been a much greater fear for me. Today however has had red leaders talking about starting the violence and now the mention of guerilla units! That won't go unnoticed. It is incitement to insurrection or (I dread saying this) civil war. That leaves the leadership exposed like they never have been before. Not just Arisman and Sae Daeng (Jatuporn is protected by MP immunity while parliament is seated) but ALL of them. They cannot claim ignorance of something that was broadcast from their own stage!

[frodo]

These leaders must be arrested and charged with sedition immediately. No bail and if found guilty, whatever the penalty is for this crime, do it. This is getting way out of control. If the followers do support and form these forces, they to, regardless of education and sheer ignorance should go down as well.

"UDD core member Natthawut Saikua called on the UDD supporters in different provinces to form guerilla forces at certain locations"

The above from an unlinkable source.

[jdinasia]

Lucky me I got stuck in some that traffic this morning on Suk leading up to Ploenchit... lucky I only to turn down Wireless so missed the major issues further up the road.

Odd I didn't see a single person on the side of the road today clapping for the reds or cheering them on, but I sure do see a lot people hurling verbal abuse at them it is very very clear that the majority of the people in the downtown core that I saw today have had enough of the Thugs and want them to get the hel_l out.

Who is really in charge of this band of misfits? This could rate as one the dumbest moves in protest history.

BTW, the REDs I saw today were mostly eating, drinking hanging out joking around... it still appears to be a party.. I guess because the vast majority of them have NO CLUE what they are being paid for but will not look a gift horse in the mouth... even a square jawed one.

You must be lying! The reds on the forum tell us that Bangkok is solidly behind them!

OK .. maybe they need to say that to counter the fact that not only are they hated in BKK but now more and more of the country is hating them.

[Insight]

Before this morning that would have been a much greater fear for me. Today however has had red leaders talking about starting the violence and now the mention of guerilla units! That won't go unnoticed. It is incitement to insurrection or (I dread saying this) civil war. That leaves the leadership exposed like they never have been before. Not just Arisman and Sae Daeng (Jatuporn is protected by MP immunity while parliament is seated) but ALL of them. They cannot claim ignorance of something that was broadcast from their own stage!

The translation of some of the threats they're making towards Abhisit over the past few minutes are way, way OTT. This is getting nasty, and making anything said from the red side during the talks on Sunday and Monday a complete farce.

[moresomekl]

The very bottom line is that the poor people are tired of the middlemen stealing from them. You have to admit that the red shirts have not taken over government buildings nor have they closed the airport.

Please. Send them to take over the government house and airport. Those targets have very little effect on most of the country. They are high profile, largely symbolic targets that affect a small percentage of the country directly. I didn't agree when the yellows did that either, but at least that was not serious.

The red shirts on the other hand, care not a bit for anyone other than themselves. They selected a target designed to cause maximum inconvenience to millions of Bangkok residents. The yellows at least had some compassion for ordinary citizens. The reds are just being impudent cretins.

I could forgive them for an airport or a government installation. A major intersection however? That demands their immediate removal. No mercy. The two can not even be compared. The reds are 100 times worse than the yellows ever even tried to be.

Not serious ? Preventing innocent travellers from flying in or out for 9 days is not serious ?

The only non serious thing i can see here is your post

[whiterussian]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Cant Thai visa and the nation put THIS sort of thing as a red headline?

missed this completely... having my head firmly in the sand while this goes on!

My wife is 'Red' so I have a vested interest to anticipate her good moods and bad moods according to what comes out on the 'idiot box'.

The reds should be chuffed, hope everyone buggers off home for songkran and gets ready for the ballot box!

Edited April 3, 2010 by whiterussian

[jdinasia]

Not 6 months, 9 months.

The UDD has previously stated they are prepared a compromise of 2 months, but as it stands Abhisit is firm on 9.

Cant Thai visa and the nation put THIS sort of thing as a red headline?

missed this completely... having my head firmly in the sand while this goes on!

My wife is 'Red' so I have a vested interest to anticipate her good moods and bad moods according to what comes out on the 'idiot box'.

If it were true .... but it isn't so ....

[siampolee]

Do the red Shirt Brigade leaders really think that tourists have any interest in there self opinionated egotistical ideas ?

Certainly the average tourist is indeed more worldly wise and indeed educated working class too to be worried by a bunch of wannabee tinpot dictators.

Carry on you poor misguide Red Shirt characters and you will indeed and sadly it seems shoot yourselves in the foot whilst your cowardly Goebbels type leader ( I presume you are aware of the physical shortcoming of Goebbels according to the popular song ?) is living in luxury and the only exposure to danger he may have is the fact there may be no toilet paper in his bathroom

Edited April 3, 2010 by siampolee

[Rtwo]

And Mr T's Brother-in law didn't last long either, did he? It would be interesting to know what your definition of democracy is or don't you believe in it?

The point I was trying to make is when Mr. T's brother-in-law was PM the reds has no cause to demonstrate simply because Mr. T was in power. By the way it is now a mute point since he was convicted but while he was in power he raped all Thai people of billions. Surely you know this also. Surely you are not naive enough to think these demonstrations are about democracy. If so you need to read more.

My definition of democracy is as follows. Government of the people, for the people and by the people. A form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system

I'm sorry I fail to see any evidence at all that what you term "supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents" here in Thailand. The ones with the "supreme power" are primarily members of the Armed Forces and the politicians occupying positions in the Government have been installed there by them for their bidding; they have certainly not been elected under a “free electoral system" and if you believe they have then you are dangerously naive. Military coups are hardly democratic, nor are they remotely legal. You may not like the incumbent but the way to get them out is a free and fair election. The last notable person who refused to go was tipped out by the military so what is this Government scared of? Couldn't be democracy "in action" could it?

[elcent]

This gov has no ideas of how to cope with this issue.

I'd tell them, we give you one week to show us 5 million people who want to have the gov dissolved. If you can provide that, we'll dissolve within 24 hours, if not the full sledge hammer of law will crush you. - something this line will do the trick.

Thaksin would definitely run completely broke, ready to be picked up and brought to justice and the gov has a reason to crack down on trouble makers.

Problems solved.

[moresomekl]

I fail to see what George Bush has to do with Thai politics. It is also obvious that you know nothing about the US electoral process.

Well as an American I do, and I can assure you no demands like this would be considered acceptable. The comparison is a valid. George Bush assumed the role of president despite questionable activities at the ballot box in 2000 and 2004. I didn't like, I never recognized him as legitimate holder of the office, but no one was marching and demanding dissolution of the government. And if they had engaged in behavior and rhetoric such as the redshirt leaders have here, how long do you think it would take to get the National Guard out? In fact I have been to anti-klan/nazi rallys where National Guard troops were prominent. Armed with automatic weapons, not batons and shields.

Agree with you , same in France , though over there police uses tear gas and water cannon , not live ammunition , i saw the protests in Paris May68 , kind of carnival like , a bit like current protest .

But Thailand is a bit different no matter who is in power , the other side will protest . Strange ....

[traderjm]

You must be lying! The reds on the forum tell us that Bangkok is solidly behind them!

OK .. maybe they need to say that to counter the fact that not only are they hated in BKK but now more and more of the country is hating them.

It was quite a contrast as the first week there was a good number of people that appeared to be supporting them. Of course I don't know how much of that was support and how much was just the usual Thai love of Sanook and they sensed a movable party... but for sure there were at least as many that appeared to be cheering them on as being uninterested or against them.

Second week it really seemed to drop quickly... the number of people that actively appeared to show support was less than 25% in the areas we traveled and it was the same area as the previous week as it is EVERY Saturday as I make my rounds and empty the safes at our various branches in the city.

This week well as stated hard to find anybody that was not sneering and telling them to go home and calling them Monkeys and Water Buffalo (for the record I don't approve of that, but just reporting it) I also noticed with my staff the first week they were more or less saying well they do have a right to state their opinions and talk like that, as this thing continues and they see the shameful attitudes and comments by the RED leaders more so when compared to the PM and his words and actions I would say my staff has gone from light RED supportive to NO red allowed in the building and go home and yes some of them are from the NE