Why Don't Thai Mothers Teach Their Daughters?

[IanForbes]

Why don't Thai mothers teach their daughters the facts of life? Most of them have already learned the hard way themselves. So, why don't Thai mothers teach their daughters to use condoms BEFORE their girls have sex? The girls who get themselves pregnant and then have to go off to work in bars certainly make sure their customers wear condoms, so why not before they get pregnant? It seems that most Thai men/boys don't or won't wear condoms, so shouldn't the girls insist... no rubber, no honey?

I'm only posting this because the young daughter of the family I support is supposedly getting married soon. The girl is only 14 years old! And, if it is her boyfriend I met in Kanchanaburi, then he can't be more than 15 or 16 himself. He CERTAINLY isn't old enough to support a wife who is possibly pregnant. I can't think of any other reason why a girl that young would want to get married to some young kid who still has pimples.

The mother expects me to send them more money for the marriage. That ain't going to happen. I only undertook to help support the family as a charity case and always was honest in whatever I told the mother. I always insisted that we were NOT going to have a relationship. Unfortunately, I have NEVER received a straight honest answer to any of my many questions I've asked of the mother of the three children I look after.

Thankfully, I never got myself involved other than trying to help the family. I DID get them started in a family business, but that was all I could afford. The woman could screw up a 4 carot diamond ring.

And, this story is NOT unique. It happens continually, and the results are evident with the thousands of un-wed mothers working in Thai bars. I have no problem with women working the bars, but it SHOULD be a choice of the women who decides that life style suits them, and not be forced into it because they got pregnant too young.

[whistleblower]

I think its because the older generation live in the past. This is still "Old Siam' where women NEVER have sex before they are married. That seems to be what the older generation believe. Thats why sex ed in schools is seriously lacking.

Or it could be That Thais just do things and face the consequences later?

[BigWheelMan]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Why should these people care when there are gullibles like the OP supporting them and paying in hard cash as a safety net for the errors of their ways?

[G54]

I know of at least 2 under the age of 16 that have babies. Some education about condoms and safe sex would be a great help to stop even a few of these incidents.

I get the feeling sex is like driving a car here. Buddha will take care of it !!

[fredob43]

I think what you are doing is admirable, But some people you just cant help. All you have to do is look at 99% of the people with red shirt's in BKK. They are all uneducated farmer's that just get led along. By the lure of a few Baht. That's why Im sorry to say. What ever you try to do for them, you'll just get thrown back in your face, I dont know about the folk's that you help, but I think your waisting you time and money, and in the end your not realy helping them to stand on there own two feet. My advice is you've helped them once or twice now walk away, it will save you a lot of heart ache. Why do they get pregnant. Lack of education, of all party's concerned.

[sokal]

Look at the numbers in the west, its not allot different, just more abortions. Nobody wears condoms in the west or listens to what they are told at sex ed. Also there is more strategic pregnancies in the west, allot of girls like to cash in on the child support laws.

[Carib]

Some nations in the so-called developed world have very very high child-mother numbers, so it ain't all that much better in the west.

Mothers don't tell their daughters because they were never told themselves, things just happened in their way of living and a solution was found when it did. Also talking about sex is still a big taboo.

[Moonrakers]

Ian.

You always come across as a good person, but I find it difficult to believe that a man with your experience is really this naive.

[TheWalkingMan]

Unfortunately, a lot of these people are very low on the brain power scale and cannot see past their next meal. One chick told me how her kid called her crying because she scored too low to pass a school entrance exam. The previous year I told that chick that instead of buying the kid toys, it was time to invest in books and education. When I reminded her of the conversation she came out with... "Why you talk about before!" Another kid on the downward spiral and the parents cannot grasp why.

There are some people that you just cannot help. All you can do is take the position of "Mai bhpen rai" and move along. No reason to get involved, feel bad or sad. It is just the way things work and some people are doomed by their parents.

TheWalkingMan

[tangcoral]

I think its cultural taboo to speak about sex before marriage.

[IanForbes]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Yes. Do you find that hard to believe? The family I help suppprt lives in Kanchanaburi. I stay in Chiang Mai and only visit the family once a year to see how the children are doing. I care nothing for the mother, but try to help the children. I get pleasure out of helping people try to help themselves. I ask for nothing else in return. I DO believe in charity providing the charity DOES help people, other than momentarily. If I have enough to live a comfortable life then I don't mind sharing what little remains. If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help. Some people are wise enough to take advantage of charity and others aren't. In Canada, charity is provided through a semi-social welfare system that is provided by taxing the middle income earners. In Thailand, people have to rely on families for support.

[makescents]

My girlfriend told me about 2 girls she knew in high school who both had abortions, one of them twice!

When I first met her she was pretty green about the whole sex thing and didn't mention contraception at all. I set her straight about her options condoms, pills, IUDs etc.

4 years later and no kids to stamp on my dreams

E2A: Just re-read the OP, this isn't unheard of in conservative Thai circles. I know a girl who spent one night over at some guys house when she was 15 and the next week the parents forced her to marry him. Ludacris if you ask me but some people in Thailand are stuck in 50s Britain.

Edited April 4, 2010 by makescents

[Svenn]

There is a lack of foresight among all the poor and uneducated people in the world... one could argue that maybe by having a life of hardship, they seize every pleasurable experience they can without hankering over the future. There's something to be said for that I guess, I've always thought too much foresight is bad too- i.e. attorney friends of mine who will toil until they're 45 before they ever start getting to enjoy their life. But on the whole, they just can't be helped.

You can't yell or scour the wisdom of condoms into these kids, you need to make them want to use them for their own sake... they need to see how crappy their life is going to become if they have a kid. Like someone else said, this isn't Siam anymore and fertility isn't a hard thing to come by, certainly no miracle.

[tangcoral]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Yes. Do you find that hard to believe? The family I help suppprt lives in Kanchanaburi. I stay in Chiang Mai and only visit the family once a year to see how the children are doing. I care nothing for the mother, but try to help the children. I get pleasure out of helping people try to help themselves. I ask for nothing else in return. I DO believe in charity providing the charity DOES help people, other than momentarily. If I have enough to live a comfortable life then I don't mind sharing what little remains. If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help. Some people are wise enough to take advantage of charity and others aren't. In Canada, charity is provided through a semi-social welfare system that is provided by taxing the middle income earners. In Thailand, people have to rely on families for support.

I rare breed, but much respect.

[IanForbes]

Ian.

You always come across as a good person, but I find it difficult to believe that a man with your experience is really this naive.

I'm not naive. I understand you can't have a 100% success ratio. I HAVE helped people get their start and it has worked well for those that took advantage of what little I could do. I helped two little flower kids get a better education. One took advantage of my charity and progressed. She is now a young adult and studying English, Japanese and Chinese. She hopes to find a job in the tourist industry. With her work attitude I believe she will succeed. The other girl made some unwise choices and I don't see that bright a future for her. Any more help for her would be tossing good money after bad. I don't have enough to turn her life around and I'm certainly not going to take on another family to support.

I also have a very good friend who helped a Thai women after all her possessions were stolen and she had nowhere else to turn. He was just a neighbour and did it out of the goodness of his heart. They are now married and she has a very successful business that is growing each year.

I just find it sad when you try to help and it doesn't work. Nobody can save anyone who is not willing to learn from their mistakes. Just handing out money, as I often do in bars, only gives the women momentary relief. But, if a woman TRULY wants help to change her life for the better, then I'm willing to do what I can. But, I'm also quite clear in telling them that I'm not an ATM machine. You can't save everyone that needs it, but if you can make just one person's life better then you've done a good thing. That is all I ask for. I got help from a stranger when I was 18 years old and going down the wrong path. I fortunately took it and it changed my life for the better. I never would have had the marvelous life that I've had if I had not realized that I had better change my life style and take advange of a stranger's help.

Edited April 4, 2010 by IanForbes

[Svenn]

I'm not naive. I understand you can't have a 100% success ratio. I HAVE helped people get their start and it has worked well for those that took advantage of what little I could do.

I've seen it as well... in a bar girl no less. Everyone here tears them down as just greedy ho's from the sticks, but there are a few that are genuinely trying to improve their life and get away from the scene as soon as possible.

[Rinrada]

So what does that say for over "ere??

Report done a couple of years ago but dont think stats have changed.

not really worth worrying about it..isit.

UK has 'highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe'

Britain has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in western Europe, according to a study into the sexual health of women.

The report, by Population Action International, found that the number of adolescent girls falling pregnant was worryingly high, and that teenagers run a higher risk of complications in pregnancy and childbirth.

It also ranked 130 countries, comprising 96 per cent of the world population, into

categories from highest to lowest sexual and reproductive risk for women – the highest risk being placed at No 1 and the lowest at 130.

The study's authors looked at factors including HIV prevalence, teenage birth rates, maternal deaths and infant mortality rates.

The UK lagged behind countries including Croatia, Estonia, Cuba and the Czech Republic for levels of female sexual health.

The Netherlands had the lowest risk, ranked at 130, while the UK was placed at 112.

(With thanks)

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/he...ope-397153.html

[makescents]

AIDS is more of a problem in Thailand. They can stick teenage pregnancy on the backburner until they stop being Asia's number one AIDS rate nation.

[IMA_FARANG]

I suspect if you talk to Thai teenagers rather than try to pontificate to them, you would very quickly see they know all about using condoms. They are quite aware of the "facts of life".

In my Thai family, my Thai g/f, she was married and her husband left her with three children to support. Not seen since.

Her oldest daughter was married for about two years and the guy walked away. One girl child, now our grand daughter. She is about 13 now.

I know for a fact that both my Thai g/f (granny) and the oldest daughter (mom) have told the grand daughter about the "facts of life" and about using condoms. So far the grand daughter is still young...but just started getting interested in boys.

I suppose that you see your daughter's boyfriend as a "pimpelly faced kid", but I doubt your daughter would see him the same way. To her, he is a magnificent beautiful man who "loves" her.

Face it, it's just biology. It happens everywhere in the world...please don't assume it's due to Thai "ignorance". If you think otherwise, you're just being niave.

Question: when you were 15, and you had the chance to "score" with the neighbors daughter....did you or her stop to think about condoms at the time? Of course, you didn't. Niether did I.

Thai teenagers don't either. It won't happen to them anyhow.

Believe it or not, it also happened to our grandparents. That's why we are here.

[Mosha]

2 of my wifw's nieces have had to get married young. The Thai solution seems to be to go and "lean" on the boys family.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Mosha

[BigWheelMan]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Yes. Do you find that hard to believe? The family I help suppprt lives in Kanchanaburi. I stay in Chiang Mai and only visit the family once a year to see how the children are doing. I care nothing for the mother, but try to help the children. I get pleasure out of helping people try to help themselves. I ask for nothing else in return. I DO believe in charity providing the charity DOES help people, other than momentarily. If I have enough to live a comfortable life then I don't mind sharing what little remains. If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help. Some people are wise enough to take advantage of charity and others aren't. In Canada, charity is provided through a semi-social welfare system that is provided by taxing the middle income earners. In Thailand, people have to rely on families for support.

You are probably telling the truth, but I am too much of a cynic to take this in as fact and stopped believing in Santa Claus years ago.

Nothing personal, it`s just the way I am. With the people I have known, it`s always been give something to gain something, or perhaps I have mixed with the wrong people.

[needforspeed]

NO brains, no education incorrect.

All this has to do with Thai culture and the position off a woman in society.

And unfortunately she is the victim and left behind with there lifetime ballast.

[GrahamF]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Why should these people care when there are gullibles like the OP supporting them and paying in hard cash as a safety net for the errors of their ways?

Just because you can't imagine giving to a charity or helping someone out w/o getting anything in return doesn't mean the OP can't and that there has to be a "relationship there." I give to charities and the only expectation I have is that the money is not squandered on frivolous things and that the majority goes to those in need.

Personally, I applaud the OP for his efforts.

As to helping out with the wedding, I suggest sending condoms rather than money.

[473geo]

Is the OP seriously saying that he supports the family out of the goodness of his heart? Surely there must be a relationship in there, somewhere.

Yes. Do you find that hard to believe? The family I help suppprt lives in Kanchanaburi. I stay in Chiang Mai and only visit the family once a year to see how the children are doing. I care nothing for the mother, but try to help the children. I get pleasure out of helping people try to help themselves. I ask for nothing else in return. I DO believe in charity providing the charity DOES help people, other than momentarily. If I have enough to live a comfortable life then I don't mind sharing what little remains. If people should try to make me into an ATM machine then they lose out and I end my help. Some people are wise enough to take advantage of charity and others aren't. In Canada, charity is provided through a semi-social welfare system that is provided by taxing the middle income earners. In Thailand, people have to rely on families for support.

You are probably telling the truth, but I am too much of a cynic to take this in as fact and stopped believing in Santa Claus years ago.

Nothing personal, it`s just the way I am. With the people I have known, it`s always been give something to gain something, or perhaps I have mixed with the wrong people.

I think anybody who reads the posts from Ian would be aware he is almost overly up front and honest in his comments.

edit:advice to Ian removed

Edited April 4, 2010 by 473geo

[garyh]

Why are you mouthing of at Thai culture when you have the likes of the catholics that say no condoms while they protect there own that molest children?

[needforspeed]

Why are you mouthing of at Thai culture when you have the likes of the catholics that say no condoms while they protect there own that molest children?

Talking about Hierachy, a woman still much lower on the steps than a man, many woman still don't speak to a man what the want or think.

It isn't mouthing its a fact, and that is one of the reasons that many Thai girls/woman still have sex without condom.

[Mossfinn]

Why are you mouthing of at Thai culture when you have the likes of the catholics that say no condoms while they protect there own that molest children?

Although I agree with your first statement, the impetuosity of youth is not singular to the Thai youth, nor is it down to lack of education, but your second is certainly not the arena of Catholic's alone, no matter how abhorrent the act, nor ignorance to the situation that it is world wide.

[Mossfinn]

Talking about Hierachy, a woman still much lower on the steps than a man, many woman still don't speak to a man what the want or think.

It isn't mouthing its a fact, and that is one of the reasons that many Thai girls/woman still have sex without condom.

I am sure that makes sense somewhere in this Galaxy

[473geo]

Why are you mouthing of at Thai culture when you have the likes of the catholics that say no condoms while they protect there own that molest children?

Ian appears to be asking a question about teenage pregnancies on a Thailand forum based on a Thai situation in which he is involved in.......

I am sure......good fellow that he is......next time he is having a chat with the Pope he will raise your concerns.

[Mossfinn]

next time he is having a chat with the Pope he will raise your concerns.

No doubt!

Until then he will raise them with us,

I can't wait