Registerting A New Born In Pattaya

[Thailaw]

I had a daughter on the 24th of March, 10 days ago. We (the baby's mom and I; we are not married) went to the Amphur in Pattaya (north Pattaya in the police compount on Sukumvit (first we went to City Hall and they sent us to the Amphur, after telling us we needed to wait until we has the birth certificate)) to "register" me as the baby's father. I spoke to the officer in charge, who nicely told me that there was nothing else but the birth certificate (which was processed by the hospital (Bangkok Pattaya) and that was all the evidence that I need or can get to confirm that I am the girl's father. He said that there is nothing else that I can or need to do -- the birth certificate will be all I need. I have read the other posts that say that I need to "register" the baby, but how do I do it when I am told by the officer in charge at the amphur that it is not possible/available? Is there a Thai word or phrase for what I want to do? Who should I ask to speak to? What is the form/paper that I need to fill out and sign? I need specifics/details please, as I hit a wall on my first attempt and time is running out -- only a few days left and tomorrow is a holiday. Thanks,

[gregb]

I believe you are referring to the fact that you need to legalize the baby. As the office explained to you, the registration has already been done by the hospital.

Legalization can only be done 3 ways:

1) Wait until the child is old enough to give consent (approximately 7 years old) and do this at the district office.

2) Marry the mother of the child

3) Contact a lawyer and file a proceeding with the juvenile court to legitimize your rights as a father

The 10 day restriction only has to do with registering the birth, and the hospital has already done that for you, so that requirement is complete.

At this point, you are the father in name only. Until the child is legalized, the mother is the only person who is viewed by law as having the right to decide where the child will live and who will be allowed to watch her. You are nothing more than a glorified baby sitter, and the mother can forbid you seeing her at any time.

If you are not prepared to marry the mother, and you want to be the legal father right now, your only option is a lawyer and court.

[Thailaw]

Your response is consistent with my experience at the amphur yesterday, but very different than numerous threads on this subject, including one by Mario 2008 that is pinned above. The term that has been used is "register" the unmarried male as the father. There is a footnote in that thread that the registration option in the first 15 days has been challenged, but no other suggestion is made that the option is not available, only that it may not provide the desired result. Time to see my lawyer, I think.

[Thailaw]

I believe you are referring to the fact that you need to legalize the baby. As the office explained to you, the registration has already been done by the hospital.

Legalization can only be done 3 ways:

1) Wait until the child is old enough to give consent (approximately 7 years old) and do this at the district office.

2) Marry the mother of the child

3) Contact a lawyer and file a proceeding with the juvenile court to legitimize your rights as a father

The 10 day restriction only has to do with registering the birth, and the hospital has already done that for you, so that requirement is complete.

At this point, you are the father in name only. Until the child is legalized, the mother is the only person who is viewed by law as having the right to decide where the child will live and who will be allowed to watch her. You are nothing more than a glorified baby sitter, and the mother can forbid you seeing her at any time.

If you are not prepared to marry the mother, and you want to be the legal father right now, your only option is a lawyer and court.

To quote Mario2008 in a different thread on the same subject, "Article 1547 of the Thai Civil Code states:

'A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by registration made on application by the father, or by a judgment of the Court.'" Other posts state that the father has 15 (or 10) days from the birth to register/legitimize the child. One poster said that he tried to register/legitimize his child in Hat Yai and was told that he had to go to court. One would think that if this has (ever) been done (or even tried), the officer in the amphur's office would have heard/knowledge of it. Are we simply being run around in circles by posters on this forum???????

[Mario2008]

It seems that the option of registering the birth of the child yourself as father is not a valid one and was a mistake. We have recently discussed this with Isaanlawyers/thailawonline. Some amphurs might consider it as a legitimisation if you go to the amphur to register the birth yourself, but it seems it is offcially not.

GregB's state the options you have to legitimize the child. Note that you can also legitimise the child at your embassy. This will not be recognized in Thailand, but the child would get your nationality, etc.

[Thailaw]

It seems that the option of registering the birth of the child yourself as father is not a valid one and was a mistake. We have recently discussed this with Isaanlawyers/thailawonline. Some amphurs might consider it as a legitimisation if you go to the amphur to register the birth yourself, but it seems it is offcially not.

GregB's state the options you have to legitimize the child. Note that you can also legitimise the child at your embassy. This will not be recognized in Thailand, but the child would get your nationality, etc.

My first daughter has a Thai birth certificate and a US birth certificate and a Thai pass port and a US passport. That does not make her "legitimitized" in any normal sense of that word but it does acknowledge that I am her father and that she is a US citizen (which I am thankful for (at least there is sanity somewhere in the world)). My concern and that of most readers, I think, is to ensure that I have rights of a parent should (1) her mom and I separate or (2) her mom die. Absent one of those events occurring, the issue of my parental rights or claims shouldn't arise -- she lives in my house and kisses me goodnight every night. And with my daughters' well beings at stake, I am unwilling to leave this issue to chance. And what happened to the law looking out for the best interest of the child? It is in the best interest of the child to leave it without a father for seven years even when the father desires to affirm his parentage? No wonder Thai men often treat their children with such disregard -- the law encourages them to do so by saying that the kids aren't theirs. What crap!

[Mario2008]

It is crap indeed, and once the political situation clears up I intend to take it up with some mebers of parlement. Given the fact that many Thai people don't officially marry, a lot of children have no legal father.

Regarding your first daughter, you can go to the amphur and have you recognized as the father if she is 7 years old. Sometimes even 3 or 4 years old is considered old enough, as long as the child can say you are the father. The law doesn't give an age, so it is up to the amphur what age they will consider old enough. Taking someone influential with you might help.

For your youngest daugther you will have to go to court. It will take a few months and cost you.

To gurad against the case what happens when the mother dies, she can make a will in which she names you as custodian over the children in case she dies.

[MikeyIdea]

I don't 100% agree with that the law is crap. It is crap for us, fathers who love our children and care for them but unfortunately, there are quite a few fathers in Thailand who don't. Thai law tries to deal with protecting the child in the cases where it is needed the most, where the mother couldn't afford to take the issue to court regardless of how necessary it was and I think it is doing a good job in that area. It can't suit everybody though. Thai law offers a very cheap solution to the whole legitimization business for those who want to take it, marry. The other possibility, going to court to get your child legitimized is only a formality if the mother (and child) agrees so there is no need for a lawyer who speeks English or anything like that, it doesn't have to cost a lot

I legitimized my child at the Amphur in Loei when she was less than 3 years old in half a day for a hundred bath something. That is not going to happen in Bangkok though

Edit: changed wording a bit

[Thailaw]

I don't 100% agree with that the law is crap. It is crap for us, fathers who love our children and care for them but unfortunately, there are quite a few fathers in Thailand who don't. Thai law tries to deal with protecting the child in the cases where it is needed the most, where the mother couldn't afford to take the issue to court regardless of how necessary it was and I think it is doing a good job in that area. It can't suit everybody though. Thai law offers a very cheap solution to the whole legitimization business for those who want to take it, marry. The other possibility, going to court to get your child legitimized is only a formality if the mother (and child) agrees so there is no need for a lawyer who speeks English or anything like that, it doesn't have to cost a lot

I legitimized my child at the Amphur in Loei when she was less than 3 years old in half a day for a hundred bath something. That is not going to happen in Bangkok though

I am not sure what you are saying, but I very much disagree with the conclusion. At least according to the way it was suggested legitimizing a child by the father could be done, the father and the mother go to the amphur within 15 days of the child's birth and they both affirm that he is the father. He then becomes the legal father. How can the mother be harmed by that process --she agrees to it and participates in it?? In fact, it should make claims of child support by the mother easier if that issue arises in the future. If she does not want to affirm that the man is the father for any reason, she has that option. If the mom and dad both want to affirm him as the father, then the child has a legal father, adding security and assurance to all of their lives. And why should someone need to legally take on the responsibility for a woman (been there, done that) just to affirm and ensure the responsibility for a child? And WHY should the child (3 or 5 or 7) need to agree??? What on earth does a 3 year old know about who its father is???? The child has no capacity to know beyond what it is told. That is foolish! If proof is required, a paternity test should be and should be all that is required. We are living in the 21st century -- too bad that Thai law is still stuck in the dark ages. As it stands, the law protects no one. Any your right it isn't 100% crap -- it is 110% crap!!!!!

[MikeyIdea]

the father and the mother go to the amphur within 15 days of the child's birth and they both affirm that he is the father. He then becomes the legal father

I think it was isaanlawyers that confirmed that the way is not open. I do not know for sure but I bet the way never formally existed in the first place.

It is not for the case when the father wants to go to the amphur that the law is written, it's for the case when he couldn't care less about doing that either.

What the law says is not in any way that the child has a veto right, in plain English it just says that if the child doesn't agree, then it needs to be confirmed.

Thai law is a bit different, it values the childs right more than in western countries. I found that strange too in the beginning although I did not call it 110% crap of course

I wrote in an earlier post just today;

"Western law and perception in many countries is that children should have nothing or very little to say about custody etc. The value of the childs opinion generally starts to be recognised later in western interpretations of family law and it does generally not carry the same weight either. Thai family law always mentions the child first, then father and mother"