Bangkok Showdown: Clashes Seem Inevitable Now

[anotherpeter]

The can never be a true democracy here as long as those people who are protesting now, are willing to sell their votes to the highest bidder. They are the ones that are the cause of it all because they do not understand what is going on or are only interested in how much cash they are going to get

The precurser for a "real" democracy requires understanding and responsibillity of the majority of the voters

So BKK please tell me where you got your immaculate wisdom?

I have seen any evidence of knowledge or for that matter any pertinent fact in your post.

Where did you get your information about what the majority stands for? I thought that was what a national referendum was for.

I think you are mistaken. You don't tell people what they understand nor impune their motives. Two previous elections have shown they are the majority and they are showing their responsibility by standing up to a minority who is trying to hold on to their power by escalating their provocative military and police actions to try to silence the Opposition.

Instead of attacking the character of the opposition you should use as much energy to work to get an agreement amongst the groups on a realistic set of plans that they can then negotiate an early national election to allow the peoples will to heard in their votes in an election observed by a group of independent international observers.

Then, after we have a real understanding of who the majority are I hope you will have the common sense to recognize whoever is the majority. Proclaiming a majority from thin air when intuition based previous performance indicates the contrary is just plain nonsense.

Please try with some positive input on resolving the problem.

Khun James, it's a well known fact that a lot of people receive money for voting for particular people.

It is also a well known fact that in the previous election (2007) the Thaksin party did NOT have a majority. And the election before that was declared invalid (before the coup).

It is also a well know fact that the current government represents the majority of Thailand.

And just for some positive input on resolving the problem, why don't the red shirts go home, put some political parties together that represent what they want, and get voted for in the next election.

edit: and instead of just attacking other peoples thoughts about the problems, "please try with some positive input on resolving the problem"

Ok peter, you are right, I should have got a plurality of the votes which is sufficient to win the election. How does that affect my post about BBKJohn post claiming a majority. From the fact that the elctions were won with a plurality means that BKKJohn assumption of a majority against the opposition would seem false based on past history. That was the point being made. Get out of the weeds and you'll see the trees and forests.

Your wife or boyfirend must really really hate trying to converse with you. Or maybe you are both peter an john?

Actually, plurality does not win the election here. The PPP needed to make deals to form government (as the Dems needed to do later).

Where does it say anything in BKJohn's post about "majority"? He talks about democracy and vote buying, and that they don't go together.

edit: oops ... I need to fix these glasses. But still ... the statement is correct, for a real democracy, everyone needs to understand what it means.

Edited April 9, 2010 by anotherpeter

[Jingthing]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

[khunjamespittman]

It its amazing how far Abhisit seems to be willing to go to try implement the constitutional amendment to insure the re-installment of and incumbent government.

What's next nationalize all the police and demand they go to Bangkok and mobilize all the military and move them to Bangkok.

Bangkok is really going to be a crowded place. Abhisit might have to go home to make room for the police an soldiers in the barracks.

[z9999]

So it looks like Thaksin is about to succeed?

[anotherpeter]

At one time, it was " a well known fact " that the earth was flat .

More recently, it was "a well known fact " that we were rapidly heading into another ice age.

Let's stick to the facts -- poor people receive money from many parties, but it does NOT buy a vote. See my earlier post.

Yes, the PPP did not have a majority, but they had more votes ( and more importantly, more MP's) than any other party.

We have no ides who has the support of and " represents the majority of Thailand " -- perhaps we need an election ?

The red shirts went home and formed the PPP , who "represent what they want " -- and we all know what that caused, don't we ?

Agreed (generally).

As you point out, the PPP had more MPs than any other party, but (as most red supporters mistakenly assume, so the point needs to be made) this does not give them the automatic right to be in government. They need more than 50% of MPs, which they don't currently have, by themselves or with supporting partners.

Seeing as the PPP don't exist anymore, and the PTP are "sitting on the sidelines" (their words), maybe they need someone to really represent them, and not Dear Leader.

[bubba]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

[Thai at Heart]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

Oh Bubba,

If you knew how many supposed Communists disappeared in the border areas of Isaan during the Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos conflicts you would understand that they know only too well what a Mao cap means symbolically. Ever seen the hills North of Petchabun and wondered where all the trees went? Of course you wouldn't know how the army bought off certain villages in Isaan and plundered others if they didn't follow the "official" anti communist line. Why do you think the line "If you don't vote for me, you get nothing" rings so resonant in Isaan? They have heard it once before from the boys in green.

Of course, they are bumpkins so they couldn't possibly know.

What kind of a city boy are you?

[JacknDanny]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

The majority of these reds have got no clue what they are doing here! No idea of anything.

They cant tell the difference between New York and New Year

[jdinasia]

At one time, it was " a well known fact " that the earth was flat .

More recently, it was "a well known fact " that we were rapidly heading into another ice age.

Let's stick to the facts -- poor people receive money from many parties, but it does NOT buy a vote. See my earlier post.

Yes, the PPP did not have a majority, but they had more votes ( and more importantly, more MP's) than any other party.

We have no ides who has the support of and " represents the majority of Thailand " -- perhaps we need an election ?

The red shirts went home and formed the PPP , who "represent what they want " -- and we all know what that caused, don't we ?

Agreed (generally).

As you point out, the PPP had more MPs than any other party, but (as most red supporters mistakenly assume, so the point needs to be made) this does not give them the automatic right to be in government. They need more than 50% of MPs, which they don't currently have, by themselves or with supporting partners.

Seeing as the PPP don't exist anymore, and the PTP are "sitting on the sidelines" (their words), maybe they need someone to really represent them, and not Dear Leader.

"which they don't currently have" probably should be revised to "which they never had without a coalition of all the minor parties with them."

Tiger's other flaw was the claim to PPP having had the most votes. That just isn't true. Only seats in parliament really matter, but the Dems had the mostt votes for a single party.

[canuckamuck]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

The potential of communism to hijack the red cause is real, as I pointed out in my Red dawn thread before Jingthing made it into a gay rights issue.

[jdinasia]

It its amazing how far Abhisit seems to be willing to go to try implement the constitutional amendment to insure the re-installment of and incumbent government.

What's next nationalize all the police and demand they go to Bangkok and mobilize all the military and move them to Bangkok.

Bangkok is really going to be a crowded place. Abhisit might have to go home to make room for the police an soldiers in the barracks.

Are you suggesting that the PPP governments never used a SoE? Or that they never used violence?

But hey .. at least this post only contained opinion and no factual errors (no facts= no factual errors!)

[bubba]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

Oh Bubba,

If you knew how many supposed Communists disappeared in the border areas of Isaan during the Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos conflicts you would understand that they know only too well what a Mao cap means symbolically. Ever seen the hills North of Petchabun and wondered where all the trees went? Of course you wouldn't know how the army bought off certain villages in Isaan and plundered others if they didn't follow the "official" anti communist line. Why do you think the line "If you don't vote for me, you get nothing" rings so resonant in Isaan? They have heard it once before from the boys in green.

Of course, they are bumpkins so they couldn't possibly know.

What kind of a city boy are you?

I didn't say 'communist'. I said Mao. If you would like to discuss what Mao did during his rise to absolute power, or perhaps Maoist thought compared to Trotskyist thought, I would be pleased to. Do you understand the difference, or do only "city boys" like myself actually read?

[LevelHead]

The majority of these reds have got no clue what they are doing here! No idea of anything.

They cant tell the difference between New York and New Year

Posts like that sum up exactly what the Elite think of the majority of Thai people.

They see them as disgusting poor slaves, and nothing more.

Keep fighting for freedom and democracy Reds !!!

More and more and supporting you now, the government is no longer in control and cannot even run things or arrest people under the SOE.

If you cannot do anything, why did you invoke it Abhisit ?

Weak weak weak and soon to be gone ?

[Jingthing]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

The potential of communism to hijack the red cause is real, as I pointed out in my Red dawn thread before Jingthing made it into a gay rights issue.

Stop the slander! I didn't make this into a gay rights issue! It is a tangential part of it, yes, but not the key issue. Yes it was the notoriously murderous Chiang Mai RED 51's who under the threat of violence (and their threats are real, they are thugs) shut down a Chiang Mai gay political event. (The reds for freedom and democracy, yeah right) and it was Thaksin himself who recently used anti-gay slurs in his rhetoric. The reds have introduced this hateful aspect to their agenda, not me.

As far as the Maoists (who are anti-royalist, and don't you dare deny it), they are indeed a significant faction of the red bloc. Why do they allow these Maoists in their movement if they are not tolerant of this EXTREME radicalism? I've said it before, a takeover by these reds is a very dangerous thing with very unpredictable and potentially tragic results. To the anti-reds, not worth the risk to destroy the things that are GOOD in Thailand.

Yes we all want more freedom, democracy, and social equality in Thailand. However, we DON'T want a Maoist cultural revolution, a repeat of Laos/Nepal/Vietnam/Cambodia, etc.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[bubba]

As far as the Maoists (who are anti-royalist, and don't you dare deny it), they are indeed a significant faction of the red bloc. Why do they allow these Maoists in their movement if they are not tolerant of this EXTREME radicalism? I've said it before, a takeover by these reds is a very dangerous thing with very unpredictable and potentially tragic results. To the anti-reds, not worth the risk to destroy the things that are GOOD in Thailand.

Yes we all want more freedom, democracy, and social equality in Thailand. However, we DON'T want a Maoist cultural revolution, a repeat of Laos/Nepal/Vietnam/Cambodia, etc.

I hope I am not overstepping the rules here, but...interestingly, I did not see a single portrait of HM the King today being carried by any of the thousands of protestors that I saw passing by, as was once common practice.

[Redsunset]

The majority of these reds have got no clue what they are doing here! No idea of anything.

They cant tell the difference between New York and New Year

Posts like that sum up exactly what the Elite think of the majority of Thai people.

They see them as disgusting poor slaves, and nothing more.

Keep fighting for freedom and democracy Reds !!!

More and more and supporting you now, the government is no longer in control and cannot even run things or arrest people under the SOE.

If you cannot do anything, why did you invoke it Abhisit ?

Weak weak weak and soon to be gone ?

Abhisit does look weak, yes... but given that there are a lot of women, children and old people who are there just for the money, or because their friends are there, it is hard to just violently disperse the protesters. Remember General Suchinda and his BLACK MONDAY? Ever see videoclips from that protest... brutal... 50-60 people killed, some strung up on trees... a horrible event in Thai history.

[lannarebirth]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

The potential of communism to hijack the red cause is real, as I pointed out in my Red dawn thread before Jingthing made it into a gay rights issue.

So, I guess the question is, who delivers the canton of Thailand to China first, the Sino-Thai "elite" or the proles. China just thrives when it's surrounded by chaos. That's what distinguished it from the West. The West likes orderly plundering.

[Redsunset]

So it looks like Thaksin is about to succeed?

Hmmm.... in any event, rumor has it that he is suffering from prostate cancer and is now in Dubai. His recent chemo treatments have really sapped him of energy. The end may be near for this man.

[bubba]

http://www.skrclub.com/player.swf

Please let the poor peasants have a voice. Oh wait that is only for the Yellow shirted elitist...right?

The majority of these reds have got no clue what they are doing here! No idea of anything.

They cant tell the difference between New York and New Year

Posts like that sum up exactly what the Elite think of the majority of Thai people.

They see them as disgusting poor slaves, and nothing more.

Keep fighting for freedom and democracy Reds !!!

More and more and supporting you now, the government is no longer in control and cannot even run things or arrest people under the SOE.

If you cannot do anything, why did you invoke it Abhisit ?

Weak weak weak and soon to be gone ?

Apparently not if you were running a community radio station support yellow shirts in Chiang Mai back in 2008. Unfortunately, the red shirts didn't like it and forced it to close, as well as murdering the station chief's father.

Double-standard, ryguy?

[TAWP]

Interesting that a 48 hours timeline to dissolve parliament is acceptble, yet the 15 day red shirt request is not?

Where are the red shirt bashers to comment on the 48 hour ultimatum. Why are they notcalling the perps evil thugs?

is it because that would mean acknowledging that the Reds 15 days is reasonable compared to the 48 hrs?

Hahah, stew in your own tears you hypocrites.

Uh, what? We should bash someone for unconfirmed rumours that most likely are not true?

And 15 days is not reasonable. The only reasonable is serving our their full term, unless the government itself fall due to inability to agree on the legislative work.

[quiksilva]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

[rogerdee123]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

I guess Suthep will be the fall guy

[Jingthing]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

People of good will, most of us, hope that level of force will be adequate to disperse the crowd. I don't think it will be, unfortunately, but hope so.

[Old Man River]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

People of good will, most of us, hope that level of force will be adequate to disperse the crowd. I don't think it will be, unfortunately, but hope so.

The Reds have thrown Molotov cocktails into Thaicom prompting a response. Teargas was the response. The Reds are lucky. In a lot of countries the response would have been a lot worse.

[rogerdee123]

Of course Maoists are not exclusively from China, even if Mao was from China.

Weng is pretty Maoist and Jakropob too. At least the seems to indicat strong Maoist leanings,

and there is the old coot dressed in Mao suit and he is certainly part of this floor show.

Shining Path, and FARC in Columbia are extreme Maoists as well as some

groups north West of Thailand whom we can't talk about here.

Of course Maoists are extremely anti-royalist. See Nepal.

I saw lots of Mao style red star caps being worn by the red shirts passing along Phaholyothin today. How can anyone possibly want to emulate Mao and bring a similar fate to Thailand as he did to China, where his widely believed to have caused the deaths of 50 - 70 million people? Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge wore Mao caps too.

I'm guessing they don't even know anything about the symbolism of the Mao caps. Also interesting - I even saw two red flags with the ubiquitous Che Guevara portrait.

It would be quite ironic if "Big Jiew" puts on a Mao hat when he leads Khun T's revolutionary army.

[Skywalker69]

BANGKOK: -- Just as he was about to be dumped by the military and coalition partners, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva staged a comeback. He invoked the emergency decree, equivalent to martial law, to deal with the red shirts. Earlier, the military and coalition partners signalled that he must dissolve Parliament in 48 hours, otherwise they would withdraw support.

Getting confused now

Within this group, there are Maoists, socialists

<deleted> does China has a role in all this ???

Abhisit still hopes that by Songkran the situation will have cooled down.

Guess it's a matter of 'action' not one of 'hope' ???

Mr.T is 50% chinese, isent he?

[Jingthing]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

People of good will, most of us, hope that level of force will be adequate to disperse the crowd. I don't think it will be, unfortunately, but hope so.

The Reds have thrown Molotov cocktails into Thaicom prompting a response. Teargas was the response. The Reds are lucky. In a lot of countries the response would have been a lot worse.

Molotov cocktails? No surprise there. The reds have shown a liking to that weapon before.

[Jingthing]

Maoists can be of any ethnicity. It is a political ideology, NOT a race!

[JacknDanny]

Well its all going off now, tear gas and water cannons used at Thaicom..

People of good will, most of us, hope that level of force will be adequate to disperse the crowd. I don't think it will be, unfortunately, but hope so.

The Reds have thrown Molotov cocktails into Thaicom prompting a response. Teargas was the response. The Reds are lucky. In a lot of countries the response would have been a lot worse.

I dont understand, I thought the reds were peaceful demonstrators??

So the petrol bomb throwers are 'false reds' right?

Lets see what spin these red apologists put on this one.

[way2muchcoffee]

It its amazing how far Abhisit seems to be willing to go to try implement the constitutional amendment to insure the re-installment of and incumbent government.

What's next nationalize all the police and demand they go to Bangkok and mobilize all the military and move them to Bangkok.

Bangkok is really going to be a crowded place. Abhisit might have to go home to make room for the police an soldiers in the barracks.

It's amazing that you already know why it's necessary to amend the constitution before elections and yet still try to find a way to twist the facts.