Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[TiredTeacher]

These Thai citizens are fighting for the future of their children and families and how else

do you expect them to get the message across ?

Whatever they think they are fighting for, everybody knows the goals of the red movement. They revolve around one man.

As for how they get their message across - however they do it, sharpened bamboo is never the answer.

And neither is clinging onto power the answer either when all Abisit had to do was call an election

"Whatever they think they are fighting for, everybody knows the goals of the red movement. They revolve around one man." Quoted from above...

I doubt everybody knows the goals of the red movement, I doubt even the reds know the full goals of the movement! This is Thailand!!! Things change by the minute.

If I was one who was injured yesterday, now having paid a blood price, I would want my goals to be added to the list of all changing goals! Come on... think smart!

"And neither is clinging onto power the answer either when all Abisit had to do was call an election" Quoted from above... (wish some would work out a selective quote system )

Yah, another super no-brainer! And then the election get's disputed and we are back to square one!

What Thailand needs... no it is not another pub Is a period of stability, can only be achieved by granting all political voices an equal arena in parliament with a non-aligned head! A referendum to the people to choose what they see the manifesto of government should be. Like a big checklist that has all points e.g. better healthcare, education etc... and this government should have to report every 3 months to the people as to how many boxes have been achieved! The West badly needs such a system too!

[somo]

Think the reds have a point!

Remember Thaksins free press policy ?

Sue the hel_l out of reporters and newspapers for obscene amounts of money for publishing the truth

No cracks in airport runway springs to mind as one case which the whole world knew about.

I wasn't defending Thaksin. In fact I agree but two wrongs do not make a right and things have got worse not better so even more reason to try and change things.

[pimay11]

Think the reds have a point!

Remember Thaksins free press policy ?

Sue the hel_l out of reporters and newspapers for obscene amounts of money for publishing the truth

No cracks in airport runway springs to mind as one case which the whole world knew about.

Exactly and the guy who broke this news of the runway cracks (which was true btw and subsequently led to shutting down one runway for repairs) to the world was fired by a farang at a news paper I can't mention and never got his job back. So much for truth in reporting. Any guesses who was PM at the time of this breaking news?

[rixalex]

These Thai citizens are fighting for the future of their children and families and how else

do you expect them to get the message across ?

Whatever they think they are fighting for, everybody knows the goals of the red movement. They revolve around one man.

As for how they get their message across - however they do it, sharpened bamboo is never the answer.

And neither is clinging onto power the answer either when all Abisit had to do was call an election

That you support a PM stepping down under the threat of violence from a minority shows what you care about isn't democracy, but having a chance for your "side" to have a shot at power. That's all it is about.

And when you consider that they would have had their shot legally and legitimately, and far more importantly, without death, simply by waiting until the end of the year, but instead chose their current path of destruction and violence, it shows you what sort of people we are dealing with - people that don't care one jot about the country or the rest of its citizens.

[BKjohn]

An oblective viewpoint

In its 2010 report, Human Rights Watch praised Abhisit's rhetoric but dismissed his record, noting, "The government continually undermined respect for human rights and due process of law in Thailand."

His record on censorship is not too hot either.

Think the reds have a point!

No they do not!!

lets have a reality check here.

There was a coup dethrowning Thaksin who was stealing the country blind. He had the support of those from Isaan because he bribed everybody there and paid them to vote for him. I think no one with an ounce of brain can argue that the coup was not necessary since Mr. T was about to place his supporters into important positions to make sure he could hang on to power. The army stopped him at the last moment.

With him in exile eventually, after 2 puppets of Mr. T, we got Abhisit who, being well educated and for a change someone who is not corrupt tried to improve things in Thailand. Change however is never easy , especially in a country where you have such divided interests and old interests like in Thailand. To succeed he would have to move patiently and carefully, especially with Mr. T doing everything he could and can to sabotage the new PM.

Yes, he was elected by parliament, probably because he was relatively young and those behind Thaksin were convinced he would fail anyway and quickly opening the road to new elections which would have been bought by Thaksin , opening the door for his return to take over the rains once again and to revive his cash machine.

When this did not happen because Abhisit proved to be good at his job, Mr. T started , with the aid of his cohorts, well we know them now as the red shirt leaders to undermine Abhisits efforts in bringing improvements to the country. He has had only a very short time in political terms and there are people here complaining that he did not achieve anything. Those people clearly have no idea how things work in politics and especially in a country like Thailand.

No one can change things here quickly there is way too much old, vested interest in the country. In part some things, especially up country are still in the middle ages, just look at the red shirts having witch doctors in to curse people and using excrement for their witches power. Should these people really decide the nations future? People who prostitute themselves for a few hundred baht and vote for the one paying them?

This is Asia and you can not force things to change. I must say that I admire him for his patience.

Now Thaksin is in full swing in his war, chasing his "soldiers" to the front because he knows that he can not keep up paying this private war indefinately and that his "soldiers" have a relatively short attention span. It is a win or loose situation with compromise being no option. He needs an outright win for him to return, being pardoned by a puppet government. First course of action would be to get rid of anyone who could endanger his rule, than he would quickly grab his money back and change the constitution to suite himself.

The current government has been forced into a situation, Abhisit tried everything to avoid and he has handled it with good statesmanship by being very, very patient. The leaders of the red shirts did everything possible to provoke him into action and only when they attacked parliament and increased their aggressive actions by throwing grenades etc.. did he declare a state of emergency but still restrained himself until Saturday when he was simply forced to act.

Now the reds have what they were asking for all along and try to use pictures of dead and wounded for their propaganda purposes. Inmy opinion , they will not succeed because their actions were too obvious and most sensible people realized what is going on except a few here who still bring up the yellow shirts. This was a fight against Thaksin and his forces, stopping him from taking over the country once again by having his henchmen controlling the government. Yes it was unpleasant with the airport closure etc.. but a necessary fight for the good of the country. I say this even though I lost one of my businesses due to this.

Lets hope the current fight against Thaksins terrorists will be won quickly and the country returned to normal. Elections will take place and hopefully by than Thaksin will have lost his support and may be, just may be those people in Isaan will vote for someone who's interest is foremost their country and not his own bankbook, may be they will stop prostituting themselves by taking money for their votes

Edited April 11, 2010 by BKjohn

[TiredTeacher]

An oblective viewpoint

In its 2010 report, Human Rights Watch praised Abhisit's rhetoric but dismissed his record, noting, "The government continually undermined respect for human rights and due process of law in Thailand."

His record on censorship is not too hot either.

Think the reds have a point!

Great another human rights activist/lawyer!!!

Thailand signed the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1966 = 44 years ago! Foreigners still have no legal standing and as such no legal rights (although they should have by the letter of that international law document). Human rights are granted to those who can buy it (not just here but in the West too)!

If you feel your rights have been violated please feel free to lodge a 'communication' i.e. a complaint then write to:

Human Rights Committee,

c/o Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights,

Palais Wilson,

52 Rue des Pacquis,

1211 Geneva, Switzerland

But... oops Thailand never signed the first optional protocol allowing you the right to use the UN as a court

Time to bang head on wall and beg just to not be deported/tortured/murdered etc. irrespective of your nationality.

[jdinasia]

These Thai citizens are fighting for the future of their children and families and how else

do you expect them to get the message across ?

Whatever they think they are fighting for, everybody knows the goals of the red movement. They revolve around one man.

As for how they get their message across - however they do it, sharpened bamboo is never the answer.

And neither is clinging onto power the answer either when all Abisit had to do was call an election

That you support a PM stepping down under the threat of violence from a minority shows what you care about isn't democracy, but having a chance for your "side" to have a shot at power. That's all it is about.

And when you consider that they would have had their shot legally and legitimately, and far more importantly, without death, simply by waiting until the end of the year, but instead chose their current path of destruction and violence, it shows you what sort of people we are dealing with - people that don't care one jot about the country or the rest of its citizens.

Goodness .... They could have called elections themselves! Even the day before PPP was disbanded (they KNEW they would be!).

[rixalex]

Goodness .... They could have called elections themselves! Even the day before PPP was disbanded (they KNEW they would be!).

My feeling is JD that although they must have suspected they would be disbanded, they were holding on to the hope that in the eleventh hour they could manage to grease the right palm to make the problem go away. Alas for them, justice stood firm.

[jdinasia]

Goodness .... They could have called elections themselves! Even the day before PPP was disbanded (they KNEW they would be!).

My feeling is JD that although they must have suspected they would be disbanded, they were holding on to the hope that in the eleventh hour they could manage to grease the right palm to make the problem go away. Alas for them, justice stood firm.

A party executive caught on film making payoffs .... it had to happen. They let hubris (typical of TRT affiliated parties) keep them from being smart. Yet they blame the other people for their loss?

[somo]

An oblective viewpoint

In its 2010 report, Human Rights Watch praised Abhisit's rhetoric but dismissed his record, noting, "The government continually undermined respect for human rights and due process of law in Thailand."

His record on censorship is not too hot either.

Think the reds have a point!

No they do not!!

lets have a reality check here.

There was a coup dethrowning Thaksin who was stealing the country blind. He had the support of those from Isaan because he bribed everybody there and paid them to vote for him. I think no one with an ounce of brain can argue that the coup was not necessary since Mr. T was about to place his supporters into important positions to make sure he could hang on to power. The army stopped him at the last moment.

With him in exile eventually, after 2 puppets of Mr. T, we got Abhisit who, being well educated and for a change someone who is not corrupt tried to improve things in Thailand. Change however is never easy , especially in a country where you have such divided interests and old interests like in Thailand. To succeed he would have to move patiently and carefully, especially with Mr. T doing everything he could and can to sabotage the new PM.

Yes, he was elected by parliament, probably because he was relatively young and those behind Thaksin were convinced he would fail anyway and quickly opening the road to new elections which would have been bought by Thaksin , opening the door for his return to take over the rains once again and to revive his cash machine.

When this did not happen because Abhisit proved to be good at his job, Mr. T started , with the aid of his cohorts, well we know them now as the red shirt leaders to undermine Abhisits efforts in bringing improvements to the country. He has had only a very short time in political terms and there are people here complaining that he did not achieve anything. Those people clearly have no idea how things work in politics and especially in a country like Thailand.

No one can change things here quickly there is way too much old, vested interest in the country. In part some things, especially up country are still in the middle ages, just look at the red shirts having witch doctors in to curse people and using excrement for their witches power. Should these people really decide the nations future? People who prostitute themselves for a few hundred baht and vote for the one paying them?

This is Asia and you can not force things to change. I must say that I admire him for his patience.

Now Thaksin is in full swing in his war, chasing his "soldiers" to the front because he knows that he can not keep up paying this private war indefinately and that his "soldiers" have a relatively short attention span. It is a win or loose situation with compromise being no option. He needs an outright win for him to return, being pardoned by a puppet government. First course of action would be to get rid of anyone who could endanger his rule, than he would quickly grab his money back and change the constitution to suite himself.

The current government has been forced into a situation, Abhisit tried everything to avoid and he has handled it with good statesmanship by being very, very patient. The leaders of the red shirts did everything possible to provoke him into action and only when they attacked parliament and increased their aggressive actions by throwing grenades etc.. did he declare a state of emergency but still restrained himself until Saturday when he was simply forced to act.

Now the reds have what they were asking for all along and try to use pictures of dead and wounded for their propaganda purposes. Inmy opinion , they will not succeed because their actions were too obvious and most sensible people realized what is going on except a few here who still bring up the yellow shirts. This was a fight against Thaksin and his forces, stopping him from taking over the country once again by having his henchmen controlling the government. Yes it was unpleasant with the airport closure etc.. but a necessary fight for the good of the country. I say this even though I lost one of my businesses due to this.

Lets hope the current fight against Thaksins terrorists will be won quickly and the country returned to normal. Elections will take place and hopefully by than Thaksin will have lost his support and may be, just may be those people in Isaan will vote for someone who's interest is foremost their country and not his own bankbook, may be they will stop prostituting themselves by taking money for their votes

I was just quoting Human Rights Watch which is a repected body because it makes fair judgements.

Your reply is just an opinionated rant thus easily ignored.

[pimay11]

TAN Network: Kwanjai, DAAD key member told CAPO not to distorted facts n blamed red shirts for fired bullets, n threaten 2 parade the bodies 2 PM house.

Totally unbelievable in a civilized world. Utter disrespect for the dead and their grieving families. These guys went to the hospital and snached these bodies. What kind of people are they? This reminds me of the acts of the Somalia insurgents when they dragged the dead body of the American through the street and when the Iraqs insurgents hung the bodies from the bridge.

[pimay11]

More fake reds I'm sure. After all the real reds are as peaceful as a spring rain.

But Saturday's violence, which followed almost a month of rallies by the Reds, was the country's worst for 18 years and shook visitors as it spread into normally tourist-friendly Khaosan Road.

"There were bullets coming all over us. Bombs as well, petrol bombs within about 10 feet of us," said factory worker Tony Doohan from Ireland, standing by debris and pools of blood covered with Thai flags and red roses.

"I saw Red Shirts with a gun they must have stolen off the cops. They all had sticks and were throwing glass bottles... anything they could find really," the 25-year-old said. "It's a bad time to be here."

[pimay11]

As the Red Shirt protests continue at the capital’s commercial heart at Ratchaprasong for the ninth consecutive day on Sunday, UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan vowed to continue fighting and reject any further talks with the government.

“We will continue fighting so that our comrades will not have died in vain, " said the Red Shirt leader. “I reassert there will be no negotiation with a government tainted with blood.”

The political sense of comrade, now associated with Communism, had its origin in the late-19th-century use of the word as a title by socialists and communists.

Need I say more???????????

[grr]

As the Red Shirt protests continue at the capital's commercial heart at Ratchaprasong for the ninth consecutive day on Sunday, UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan vowed to continue fighting and reject any further talks with the government.

"We will continue fighting so that our comrades will not have died in vain, " said the Red Shirt leader. "I reassert there will be no negotiation with a government tainted with blood."

The political sense of comrade, now associated with Communism, had its origin in the late-19th-century use of the word as a title by socialists and communists.

Need I say more???????????

Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally". The word comes from French camarade.

[SiangDeeMahk]

More fake reds I'm sure. After all the real reds are as peaceful as a spring rain.

But Saturday's violence, which followed almost a month of rallies by the Reds, was the country's worst for 18 years and shook visitors as it spread into normally tourist-friendly Khaosan Road.

"There were bullets coming all over us. Bombs as well, petrol bombs within about 10 feet of us," said factory worker Tony Doohan from Ireland, standing by debris and pools of blood covered with Thai flags and red roses.

"I saw Red Shirts with a gun they must have stolen off the cops. They all had sticks and were throwing glass bottles... anything they could find really," the 25-year-old said. "It's a bad time to be here."

Holy POOP, Batman!

90% of the foreigners staying at Khaosan Road, have checked out. They just stone-cold LEFT. Bullets, bombs and blood. On the most touristy street in Bangkok. With injuries.

Remember now, these aren't delicate jet-setters, in for a bit of shopping for the weekend; these are the hardcore, young, fearless backpackers; not likely to scare easily.. and folks? THEY'RE OUTA HERE!

Do you REALLY all not see how this is the TOTAL F_CKING END of tourism in Thailand? If the strong, young, invincible set can't tough it out, do you really think Ma & Pa "Joe Western" with their kids in tow, are gonna come now??

Also, organized Songkran festivals in Bangkok have now seemingly ALL been canceled. Way to go, Thailand! One of the few relatively family-friendly Thai calendar events (in a country full of gogobars), and it's been canceled.

It's OVER. This country is completely screwed. Sell your properties, businesses, invoke Force Majeure in your rentals (if you were smart enough to have it put into your contract), and head for other SE Asian politically stable countries.

Seriously though.. this is BAD.

P.S. A side observation, as I watch the news:

Maybe if Thais could start to incorporate sound building and construction practices, heavy steel & iron metal gates and barriers wouldn't be able to be torn out of their mountings (like balsa wood), just from a few skinny Thais shaking them really hard..? I understand that a large enough group can generate a lot of horizontal force, but I've seen some hefty gates go down with only 2 or 3 people on them, as if they'd been pinned in place with some dried-up sticky rice. Very confusing, especially when 67 patrons burned to death in Santika last year, precisely because they couldn't smash open any doors or gates.

[Chaimai]

Reading some of the rhetoric from the red leaders (notably that further protests will ensure that the red dead did not die in vain), I thought of this word today:-

Barbarian is a term for an uncivilized person, often used pejoratively, either in a general reference to a member of a nation or ethnos, typically a tribal society as seen by an urban civilization either viewed as inferior, or admired as a noble savage. In idiomatic or figurative usage, a "barbarian" may also be an individual reference to a brutal, cruel, warlike, insensitive person.

[elcent]

does anybody see a connection from Thaksin's war on drugs (2500 innocent killed) and the now throwing of grenades, and targeted assassination of high calibre army commanders amongst many other innocent civilians?

Are we witnessing Thaksin's private army? And how many within the red leadership know about it?

Why did nobody report those armed thugs? They are acting simultaneousness on every protest side.

In my opinion, the gov needs to get tougher or it will spiral out of control completely.

Any info of Panlop and Saedaeng to be involved?

It seems as if the picture's getting clearer by the day.

[jdinasia]

does anybody see a connection from Thaksin's war on drugs (2500 innocent killed) and the now throwing of grenades, and targeted assassination of high calibre army commanders amongst many other innocent civilians?

Are we witnessing Thaksin's private army? And how many within the red leadership know about it?

Why did nobody report those armed thugs? They are acting simultaneousness on every protest side.

In my opinion, the gov needs to get tougher or it will spiral out of control completely.

Any info of Panlop and Saedaeng to be involved?

It seems as if the picture's getting clearer by the day.

SaeDaeng has claimed responsibility .... check the locked news thread. No way the reds get to pass off blame on this one.

[Ijustwannateach]

We're going to try this a different way, now, people. I've now deleted posts from the past day or so which had insulting or disrespectful tag-line comments about other posters- IN THEIR ENTIRETY- for being inflammatory, as well as ANY posts which responded to them, IN THEIR ENTIRETY.

If you don't wish your posts to disappear- and at the next application of this treatment, to be warned- leave out the comments about other posters and stick to the issues, and don't reply to messages which disregard this warning.

This policy will soon be applied to other political threads, so if you value the time you put into your posts, I would post accordingly.

[Chaimai]

^ might as well close the thread now then - they'll be nobody left to post...

Excuse me, I've got a few left in there

[RickBradford]

these are the hardcore, young, fearless backpackers; not likely to scare easily

Oh, get serious, will you? These people bolt from anywhere the Internet connection isn't good enough to sustain a Skype conversation home to Mummy...

[animatic]

does anybody see a connection from Thaksin's war on drugs (2500 innocent killed) and the now throwing of grenades, and targeted assassination of high calibre army commanders amongst many other innocent civilians?

Are we witnessing Thaksin's private army? And how many within the red leadership know about it?

Why did nobody report those armed thugs? They are acting simultaneousness on every protest side.

In my opinion, the gov needs to get tougher or it will spiral out of control completely.

Any info of Panlop and Saedaeng to be involved?

It seems as if the picture's getting clearer by the day.

He's got himself 2 generals

with guerrilla experience and definitely hard cases.

Saedang said he was involved....

2+2 =

Mercenaries have caused coups in many countries for a lot less than Thaksins monthly spending cash...

Suthep had some serious firepower around him at Parliament last week too.

I am sure he is a real target formany out there. This is hardball, and half time show just ended.

Edited April 11, 2010 by animatic

[bangkokrick]

these are the hardcore, young, fearless backpackers; not likely to scare easily

Oh, get serious, will you? These people bolt from anywhere the Internet connection isn't good enough to sustain a Skype conversation home to Mummy...

Hello from Rick Keighley not too far.

I agree mate mummies boys.

Cheers, Rick

[philw]

TAN Network: Kwanjai, DAAD key member told CAPO not to distorted facts n blamed red shirts for fired bullets, n threaten 2 parade the bodies 2 PM house.

Totally unbelievable in a civilized world. Utter disrespect for the dead and their grieving families. These guys went to the hospital and snached these bodies. What kind of people are they? This reminds me of the acts of the Somalia insurgents when they dragged the dead body of the American through the street and when the Iraqs insurgents hung the bodies from the bridge.

American culture is not the only culture in the world.

Different people have many different ways.

To answer your question " what kind of people........? the answer is Thai people.

Draw from that what you will.

ph

[SiangDeeMahk]

these are the hardcore, young, fearless backpackers; not likely to scare easily

Oh, get serious, will you? These people bolt from anywhere the Internet connection isn't good enough to sustain a Skype conversation home to Mummy...

Oh? From what country are your backpackers from? The real ones that I know of...lets say, from Israel (who trek to every spot on the whole planet, as I've seen them everywhere from The Madives to Patagonia, Chile), are not the "phone mommy" type. They serve their mandatory time in the Israeli Armed Forces for 3 years (starting at age 18), and then usually head out into the world, to explore, and seriously sow some oats. They're straight outa the army, dude. They're not the type to bolt from much of anything.

I know some Georgians who do construction in NY; they told some crazy backpacking stories.. and come from a wartorn country. These guys are HARDCORE. They do demolition, they tear entire structures apart with hammers, sawz-alls and their bare hands.. they use nail guns with no protection. They're animals. They also arent the type to cut and run so easily.

Maybe you were thinking about the timid patchouli-soaked hippy-backpackers? That's fine.. but that's not the ones I was thinking about.

[jdinasia]

TAN Network: Kwanjai, DAAD key member told CAPO not to distorted facts n blamed red shirts for fired bullets, n threaten 2 parade the bodies 2 PM house.

Totally unbelievable in a civilized world. Utter disrespect for the dead and their grieving families. These guys went to the hospital and snached these bodies. What kind of people are they? This reminds me of the acts of the Somalia insurgents when they dragged the dead body of the American through the street and when the Iraqs insurgents hung the bodies from the bridge.

American culture is not the only culture in the world.

Different people have many different ways.

To answer your question " what kind of people........? the answer is Thai people.

Draw from that what you will.

ph

Actually the answer is a very limited sub-group of Thai people. Most Thai people that I know feel that parading mutilated bodies around to feed blood-lust is offensive.

[Ijustwannateach]

Further off-topic or out-of-bounds posts have been deleted, and warnings have been issued.

[JohnLeech]

..."We will continue fighting so that our comrades will not have died in vain, " said the Red Shirt leader. "I reassert there will be no negotiation with a government tainted with blood."

The political sense of comrade, now associated with Communism, had its origin in the late-19th-century use of the word as a title by socialists and communists.

Need I say more???????????

Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally". The word comes from French camarade.

No disrespect, but since he spoke in Thai, not English (or French!), the point is pointless.

[Xangsamhua]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/11/2869766.htm?WT.mc_id=newsmail

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

(W. B. Yeats: The Second Coming 1921)

[pnustedt]

TAN Network: Kwanjai, DAAD key member told CAPO not to distorted facts n blamed red shirts for fired bullets, n threaten 2 parade the bodies 2 PM house.

Totally unbelievable in a civilized world. Utter disrespect for the dead and their grieving families. These guys went to the hospital and snached these bodies. What kind of people are they? This reminds me of the acts of the Somalia insurgents when they dragged the dead body of the American through the street and when the Iraqs insurgents hung the bodies from the bridge.

I believe that there is a cultural misunderstanding here. It is quite normal, even expected, that relatives, friends, etc. will pick up the corpses from the hospital. I recall a couple of years ago when my wife's BIL died in hospital, we went out and bought him a new suit and shirt, my wife and her sister dressed him up before loading him into the back of the pickup to display him to the village, and placed in a coffin.

The corpses of most of the dead red shirts will probably have been taken back to the villages they came from by now, where week long parties will be held to celebrate their martyrdom before cremation.

It is not disrespect for the dead, just a different way than you are used to for showing respect.