Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[moresomekl]

Don't let angry mobs force new elections. In every democracy there are people who will be dissatisfied. If they are allowed to take to the streets and force new polls it will happen over and over. If the Reds actually value democracy they should wait for the next scheduled elections, but it's really about Thaksin's money isn't it. If the Reds use terror and intimidation when they are only protesters imagine how much worse they would be as the government. Then you'd see what a real dictatorship is like.

The Democrat Party took over the Government after:

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

• Refusing to take part in the elections of 2006 because they knew they would lose

• A military coup in September 2006

• A military Constitution was introduced in 2007 which decreased the democratic space

• They lost the December 2007 election

• They supported the PAD violent demonstrations which seized Government House and closed down the international airports

• The Royalist Courts were used twice to dissolve Red Shirt parties which won majorities

• Corrupt politicians were bullied and bribed by the army to change sides and support the Democrat Party

you think this is democratic?

Let's see ... point 1 --- a lie

Point 2 --- could be construed as true --- is definitely not honest

point 3 --- True there was a coup -- has nothing to do with the Dems --so not honest

point 4 --- Not true -- people voted on the constitution -- new constitution seen as providing more checks and balances -- had nothing to do with the Dems so yet again not an honest argument

point 5--- lost dec 2007 election --- mostly true -- but NOBODY "won" that election-- so less than honest

point 6 --- The Democrat party never supported PAD -- a few Dems did -- lie

point 7--- illegal claim and not true --- The courts ruled on evidence before them --- and a lie --- PPP did not win a majority in 2007

point 8--- rumours lies etc

So --- we again have CMF criticising the courts illegally --- and stating lies ---- and blaming the Dems for things done by the military etc.

Not a real intellectually honest argument in the group.

Getting back to reality

Point 1. True.There was a huge amount of criticism on the Democrats side of Thaksin's populist policies, policies which they largely adopted when in office.

Point 2. True without the need for any kind of qualification.

Point 3 True.The Democrats didn't of course organise the coup but they were the beneficiaries, and never outrightly condemned it.

Point 4 True.The state put all its weight behind the junta's constitution and was roundly condemned by international human rights organizations.The Thai people were threatened that if they didn't agree it would be unilaterally implemented anyway.Even then it only just passed.

Point 5 True.

Point 6 True.The PAD had great support among the PAD leadership and urban rank and file.Abhisit, Korn, Kasit all had strong links.

Point 7 True.The politicisation of the Thai judicial system is a matter of record.

Point 8 Partly true because I'm unaware of any bullying.Money was the critical factor as it usually is in Thai politics.

Secunded . Very good post

[jdinasia]

Don't let angry mobs force new elections. In every democracy there are people who will be dissatisfied. If they are allowed to take to the streets and force new polls it will happen over and over. If the Reds actually value democracy they should wait for the next scheduled elections, but it's really about Thaksin's money isn't it. If the Reds use terror and intimidation when they are only protesters imagine how much worse they would be as the government. Then you'd see what a real dictatorship is like.

The Democrat Party took over the Government after:

• Continuously criticising the Taksin Government for using state funds for the poor

• Refusing to take part in the elections of 2006 because they knew they would lose

• A military coup in September 2006

• A military Constitution was introduced in 2007 which decreased the democratic space

• They lost the December 2007 election

• They supported the PAD violent demonstrations which seized Government House and closed down the international airports

• The Royalist Courts were used twice to dissolve Red Shirt parties which won majorities

• Corrupt politicians were bullied and bribed by the army to change sides and support the Democrat Party

you think this is democratic?

Let's see ... point 1 --- a lie

Point 2 --- could be construed as true --- is definitely not honest

point 3 --- True there was a coup -- has nothing to do with the Dems --so not honest

point 4 --- Not true -- people voted on the constitution -- new constitution seen as providing more checks and balances -- had nothing to do with the Dems so yet again not an honest argument

point 5--- lost dec 2007 election --- mostly true -- but NOBODY "won" that election-- so less than honest

point 6 --- The Democrat party never supported PAD -- a few Dems did -- lie

point 7--- illegal claim and not true --- The courts ruled on evidence before them --- and a lie --- PPP did not win a majority in 2007

point 8--- rumours lies etc

So --- we again have CMF criticising the courts illegally --- and stating lies ---- and blaming the Dems for things done by the military etc.

Not a real intellectually honest argument in the group.

Getting back to reality

Point 1. True.There was a huge amount of criticism on the Democrats side of Thaksin's populist policies, policies which they largely adopted when in office.

Point 2. True without the need for any kind of qualification.

Point 3 True.The Democrats didn't of course organise the coup but they were the beneficiaries, and never outrightly condemned it.

Point 4 True.The state put all its weight behind the junta's constitution and was roundly condemned by international human rights organizations.The Thai people were threatened that if they didn't agree it would be unilaterally implemented anyway.Even then it only just passed.

Point 5 True.

Point 6 True.The PAD had great support among the PAD leadership and urban rank and file.Abhisit, Korn, Kasit all had strong links.

Point 7 True.The politicisation of the Thai judicial system is a matter of record.

Point 8 Partly true because I'm unaware of any bullying.Money was the critical factor as it usually is in Thai politics.

LOL

Jayboy --- condemning populist policies that were not sustainable is not comdemning state funds being used for the poor --- thus that is a lie. and intellectually dishonest.

point 2--- the Dems saw a way to block Thaksin from whitewashing Temasek and TRT dissolution. simple enough

point 3 --- blaming the Dems for the coup is not honest. thus a lie .. no matter how you qualify it.

point 4 --- it had nothing to do with the Dems -- can't blame them and to do so is dishonest

point 5 --- nobody "won" the election. The PPP got the most seats and the Dems got the most votes (votes don't matter though.

point 6 -- the Dems are not the PAD. Kasit can be slammed certainly. Then again you could blame the Reds too huh? How many of the Reds used to be PAD? Those reds are now aligned with PTP --- so by your twisted logic PTP is yellow

point 7 -- illegal to claim and a lie.

Point 8 --- flat out lies and rumour. But feel free to claim that lies and rumours are facts!

[NADTATIDA1]

A coup would now be the most peaceful way forward,lets hope it happens quickly like tomorrow!

I find it unbelievable that anyone would even suggest a "coup" is the best solution....you really amaze me! What about a dissolution of parliament and a fair and free election, or does that not fit into you ideoligies?

Well Abhisit has had the chance to do this,but he hasn't has he?

A coup would be the same as the last one...peaceful and then it gives the chance for dialogue towards free and fair elections.

Although if you read my posts here you will understand that my ideoligies are far from being realised in our lifetimes here!

I am happy that i amaze you

[moresomekl]

The Peoples Channel is back on the air loud and clear.....10:15am today.

Don't know what happened this time but they are back!

Just checked 10:21am. No signal. Blacked out in Esaan

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

Excellent ! Abhisit has no business shutting down a TV station .

If he is not happy bout People Channel he controls enough TV stations

to organise a reply . Or does he ?

[pimay11]

The Peoples Channel is back on the air loud and clear.....10:15am today.

Don't know what happened this time but they are back!

Just checked 10:21am. No signal. Blacked out in Esaan

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

It is channel 36 on my Thai satellite receiver. Still blanked out as of 11:11am

[chantorn]

The Peoples Channel is back on the air loud and clear.....10:15am today.

Don't know what happened this time but they are back!

Just checked 10:21am. No signal. Blacked out in Esaan

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

Excellent ! Abhisit has no business shutting down a TV station .

If he is not happy bout People Channel he controls enough TV stations

to organise a reply . Or does he ?

More than 1 sattelites are used, not only ThaiCom. Some goes through Hong Kong, some goes through Netherland.

[britmaveric]

Some lad with pictures yacking away on stage...

[Richard W]

In Thailand they have a law in the constitution that allows a court to ban an ENTIRE political party if one or more executive of that party are found gulty of breaking the law.

The party is dissolved. Only the executive is banned.

Of course no general election right after are mandatory . Imagine should Gordon Brown be found of getting kickbacks , the entire labor party beeing banned , and the conservative coming to power without general elections of course

Much cleaner than the Thai way! If the coalition had held together when the PPP was dissolved, it'd still be in power, even if the friends of Newin had quit. Do the arithmetic, and recall the speculation that the old PPP coalition might yet be revived, excluding the Democratic Party.

[ozzieman05]

A coup would now be the most peaceful way forward,lets hope it happens quickly like tomorrow

I fully support a coup that is followed by free and fair elections.

I definitely don't support a coup that will turn into another few years of absolute army rule and then end up with the army choosing a new PM.

I find it amazing we have people of this web site that can tell us the different between the last coup and the next

I always thought that coups were unpredictable

Notice no one says the last coup was bloodless

[moresomekl]

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

Excellent ! Abhisit has no business shutting down a TV station .

If he is not happy bout People Channel he controls enough TV stations

to organise a reply . Or does he ?

More than 1 sattelites are used, not only ThaiCom. Some goes through Hong Kong, some goes through Netherland.

Thats good . Information is blanked out only in facists states , and with great difficulties

[humfurry]

The Peoples Channel is back on the air loud and clear.....10:15am today.

Don't know what happened this time but they are back!

Just checked 10:21am. No signal. Blacked out in Esaan

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

Excellent ! Abhisit has no business shutting down a TV station .

If he is not happy bout People Channel he controls enough TV stations

to organise a reply . Or does he ?

Well I'm no fan of censorship and I doubt that Abhisit is either. But it's one of those thing that seems to be allowed under the emergency decree. I remember Taksin trying to shut down a few TV stations that were simply critical of him when he was in power. There was no emergency decree in those situations. Thailand does have some strange laws... but right or wrong (in our opinion) the PM seems to be operating within his authority under the emergency decree.

Cheers

[britmaveric]

^not doing a good job of it - shutting down the broadcast.

[moresomekl]

In Thailand they have a law in the constitution that allows a court to ban an ENTIRE political party if one or more executive of that party are found gulty of breaking the law.

The party is dissolved. Only the executive is banned.

Of course no general election right after are mandatory . Imagine should Gordon Brown be found of getting kickbacks , the entire labor party beeing banned , and the conservative coming to power without general elections of course

Much cleaner than the Thai way! If the coalition had held together when the PPP was dissolved, it'd still be in power, even if the friends of Newin had quit. Do the arithmetic, and recall the speculation that the old PPP coalition might yet be revived, excluding the Democratic Party.

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

Knowing the lack of transparency , and corruption , most probably

those who defected were offered incentive to do so of one sort or another .

[jdinasia]

^not doing a good job of it - shutting down the broadcast.

Are you watching from Thailand Brit?

[jdinasia]

In Thailand they have a law in the constitution that allows a court to ban an ENTIRE political party if one or more executive of that party are found gulty of breaking the law.

The party is dissolved. Only the executive is banned.

Of course no general election right after are mandatory . Imagine should Gordon Brown be found of getting kickbacks , the entire labor party beeing banned , and the conservative coming to power without general elections of course

Much cleaner than the Thai way! If the coalition had held together when the PPP was dissolved, it'd still be in power, even if the friends of Newin had quit. Do the arithmetic, and recall the speculation that the old PPP coalition might yet be revived, excluding the Democratic Party.

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

Knowing the lack of transparency , and corruption , most probably

those who defected were offered incentive to do so of one sort or another .

When the LEADERSHIP of the party committing electoral fraud are involved the party is disbanded -- the MP's that the people voted for remain MP's unless they are party leadership.

the rest ---- simply conjecture. At least you aren't crying about Newin being banned

[Richard W]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

I think Abhisit agrees with you. However, dissolution may not be an easy penalty to change.

[moresomekl]

Strange...I am in Issan and it's coming in loud and clear still....and now 11:03am .....now broadcasting in English

Excellent ! Abhisit has no business shutting down a TV station .

If he is not happy bout People Channel he controls enough TV stations

to organise a reply . Or does he ?

Well I'm no fan of censorship and I doubt that Abhisit is either. But it's one of those thing that seems to be allowed under the emergency decree. I remember Taksin trying to shut down a few TV stations that were simply critical of him when he was in power. There was no emergency decree in those situations. Thailand does have some strange laws... but right or wrong (in our opinion) the PM seems to be operating within his authority under the emergency decree.

Cheers

The governement under Thaksin was voted in by the people thru a parliament elected by the people .

This one is short of one general election it would seem . So lets be careful about the word authority .

Anyway Thaksin had no business shuting down TV stations , 100% concurr

[anotherpeter]

The governement under Thaksin was voted in by the people thru a parliament elected by the people .

This one is short of one general election it would seem . So lets be careful about the word authority .

Anyway Thaksin had no business shuting down TV stations , 100% concurr

My standard comment to your standard comment. All the MPs are elected. A Majority of MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

[anotherpeter]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

Knowing the lack of transparency , and corruption , most probably

those who defected were offered incentive to do so of one sort or another .

Do you realise that the disbanding of the did NOT mean that all the PPP MPs were banned?

You really need to answer that question.

You keep going on as if ALL the MPs were banned, and that all the people who voted for the PPP lost their representation. They didn't.

[way2muchcoffee]

In Thailand they have a law in the constitution that allows a court to ban an ENTIRE political party if one or more executive of that party are found gulty of breaking the law.

The party is dissolved. Only the executive is banned.

Of course no general election right after are mandatory . Imagine should Gordon Brown be found of getting kickbacks , the entire labor party beeing banned , and the conservative coming to power without general elections of course

Much cleaner than the Thai way! If the coalition had held together when the PPP was dissolved, it'd still be in power, even if the friends of Newin had quit. Do the arithmetic, and recall the speculation that the old PPP coalition might yet be revived, excluding the Democratic Party.

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

Knowing the lack of transparency , and corruption , most probably

those who defected were offered incentive to do so of one sort or another .

So then you agree a change of constitution is absolutely necessary before any election in order to prevent this from happening again.

[moresomekl]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

I think Abhisit agrees with you. However, dissolution may not be an easy penalty to change.

Really ?

Just need to change the constitution , and really strike with upmost severity those who buy votes but not punish the voters .

Imagine for one minute , am a poor farmer and voted for PPP , suddenly my party is dissoved . For sure i will be frustrated , so

would you ....

[jdinasia]

The governement under Thaksin was voted in by the people thru a parliament elected by the people .

This one is short of one general election it would seem . So lets be careful about the word authority .

Anyway Thaksin had no business shuting down TV stations , 100% concurr

ummm actually Thaksin ended up being the caretaker PM of an extra-constitutional government and was not elected at all.

[moresomekl]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

Knowing the lack of transparency , and corruption , most probably

those who defected were offered incentive to do so of one sort or another .

So then you agree a change of constitution is absolutely necessary before any election in order to prevent this from happening again.

Of course I do . Thats one the main reason why i do not support immediate general elections . But the change of constitution must be subject to a referendum by the entire nation in my view

[anotherpeter]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

I think Abhisit agrees with you. However, dissolution may not be an easy penalty to change.

Really ?

Just need to change the constitution , and really strike with upmost severity those who buy votes but not punish the voters .

Imagine for one minute , am a poor farmer and voted for PPP , suddenly my party is dissoved . For sure i will be frustrated , so

would you ....

Imagine for one minute that just because the PPP was disbanded, the poor farmer STILL HAD REPRESENTATION. His MP was not banned, unless the MP was one of the ones involved in electoral fraud. His MP was still able to vote for the PM.

[moresomekl]

The governement under Thaksin was voted in by the people thru a parliament elected by the people .

This one is short of one general election it would seem . So lets be careful about the word authority .

Anyway Thaksin had no business shuting down TV stations , 100% concurr

ummm actually Thaksin ended up being the caretaker PM of an extra-constitutional government and was not elected at all.

Thaksin ended up the way you say after winning two general elections .

Abhisit havent even started along that path

[way2muchcoffee]

Of course I do . Thats one the main reason why i do not support immediate general elections . But the change of constitution must be subject to a referendum by the entire nation in my view

I agree. Constitutions should only be changed through a referendum.

[Abrak]

even if the friends of Newin had quit.

Of course friends of Newin didnt really exist as he had been banned from politics for 5 years.

[Abrak]

I agree. Constitutions should only be changed through a referendum.

I think putting changes in the constitution to a referendum is a farce. I bet no more than 1% of voters actually read the constitution and probably only about half those understand it.

Changing bar opening times is a good subject to put to a referendum.

(Anyhow, the Democrats supported the last constitution and encouraged their supporters to vote for it and now less than 4 years later they insist it must be changed again.)

Edited April 10, 2010 by Abrak

[moresomekl]

There is no need to dissolve a party in which milions of voters have put their trust in .

Banning the culprits , even sentencing them to jail is good enough .

I think Abhisit agrees with you. However, dissolution may not be an easy penalty to change.

Really ?

Just need to change the constitution , and really strike with upmost severity those who buy votes but not punish the voters .

Imagine for one minute , am a poor farmer and voted for PPP , suddenly my party is dissoved . For sure i will be frustrated , so

would you ....

Imagine for one minute that just because the PPP was disbanded, the poor farmer STILL HAD REPRESENTATION. His MP was not banned, unless the MP was one of the ones involved in electoral fraud. His MP was still able to vote for the PM.

Many of them dont have representation under the banner in which they elected that MP .

The parliament dont represent the majority of thais currently , unless new general elections tells

otherwise because its not the parliament that was elected in Dec 2007

The only way to remove an elected governement in a democracy is through a coup.

As simple as that

[way2muchcoffee]

I agree. Constitutions should only be changed through a referendum.

I think putting changes in the constitution to a referendum is a farce. I bet no more than 1% of voters actually read the constitution and probably only about half those understand it.

Changing bar opening times is a good subject to put to a referendum.

That may be true Abrak, but the people need the last word on a constitution change IMO, whether they are able to understand it or not.