Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[gotglue]

Abhisit's popularity is still growing and them some on Facebook.

Wasn't aware that a PM's popularity and approval rating is now being measured by the amount of Facebook members, instead of public satisfaction, but thanks for the information.

don't even go there with the facebook <deleted> on this subject.......i was trying to escape the kind of mentality that has flooded facebook in the past weeks, by joining a more farang based forum

[Insight]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.

Well done. Do you agree it's in any way indicative of current support for him?

[moresomekl]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

maybe this?

Maybe protesters returning weapons to the army ??? As was reported in the press

[Mitker]

Samak, Somchai and Abhisit have all been PM after the coup.

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

Were these changes of coalitions the direct result of a military coup? I don't think so...

[helvetian]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.

Well done. Do you agree it's in any way indicative of current support for him?

First, most of them are underage teenage girls. Second, Facebook followers can be easily inflated. That aside, it doesn't mean that all Facebook followers are Thais. And just because they're members following Abhisit, doesn't mean that they support him or his ideas. They are following so that they can read what he blogs. You need to go and find out how Facebook works, buddy.

[londonthai]

protesters say about 38 dead and 680 injured.

that's going to stir up a lot of people around all thailand. I would expect a lot of protests all over north of the country

[gotglue]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.

Well done. Do you agree it's in any way indicative of current support for him?

facebook.....love for abhist, wooooww no stop it

[pagallim]

OMG!!! Absolutely ridiculous. Amazing how you make the reds out to be the victims. They have broken the law, have done everything they could to provoke violence then try to make themselves out as innocents. Please tell me one other place in the world where this would have been allowed to continue this long. Abhisit has shown incredible restraint and it is every governments duty to protect the mojarity against special interest groups with their own agendas. The station was inciting civil disobedience and was advocating violence. This is illegal in any country and should never be allowed to continue. You reds wanted the violence now you got it so do not expect to convince others that you are victims. The real victims are the citizens and tourists whose lives have been affected by your selfish escapades.

Yet someone else who probably doesn't live here, quotes Western or similar standards of expected behaviour, and offers nothing other that a few 'tut tut's'.

You need to get the background of why this particular group of protestors feel so strongly. You also need to reconcile that with for the past few weeks they've been demonstrating peacefully and other that the 'normal' civic disruption in terms of traffic flow and access, have had no issue.

I was particularly taken by your comment "Abhisit has shown incredible restraint and it is every governments duty to protect the mojarity against special interest groups with their own agendas", which is precisely what the protests are all about. The minority having disregard for the welfare of the majority. Abhisit represents a section of Thai society that continually demonstrates dismissal of others, and in fact Abhisit himself is only a pawn in a much larger game. He continually defers to others to make 'hard' decisions, and in effect is only a spokesman for those who control him. Yes, Thaksin is probably a catalyst for this, but only because he gave people a vision of the future (health, education etc), and that's being taken from them.

[hanuman1]

One big reason for a coup right now is that the government clearly doesn't have a strong hand over the police. If it did, we wouldn't have people like Arisman running amok in the city when he should have been locked up already for inciting this kind of violence, especially as there was a warrant for his arrest.

The courts will be extremely busy in the next 2-3 years dealing with all the PAD protesters, Sondhi, the red shirts, Thaksin, Abhisit, Suthep, Nuttawut, Jatuporn and all the rest who have contributed to the lawlessness that has broken out during this past month. Hopefully they will all receive what they richly deserve in terms of punishment for their lies, threats, greed and stupidity.

This govt has never had a strong hand over the police - hence the likes of Arisman and Sae Daeng running around and shooting their mouths off, but today it has shown the "watermelon soldier" myth to be exactly that - the army seem pretty united, so far, with the govt.

The retreat today was all about saving lives. The UDD are already jumping all over any evidence they can find of a bloody clampdown and using it to motivate other people into fighting.

So have the army disappeared off the face of the planet now? The red leaders were telling people to cool it and withdraw. Do you think the reds don't know where the army is right now? Here's a clue - large barracks around Bangkok and other outlying areas. If they are so intent on fighting, why aren't they fighting now?

It's called a ceasefire. Negotiations are supposed to be happening tomorrow.

When rival factions call a ceasefire, it's usually because they don't want to carry on fighting. Are you disputing that it has been a bloody clapdown? Does motivating people to fight and then calling a ceasefire seem like a coherent strategy to you? I think your post was unnecessarilly inflammatory.

[moresomekl]

So Mitkier , which western country are you from ?

Sorry but your post really sound fake

[Gnarpjohan]

The soldiers were upholding the law of their country against rebel insurgents. 'Nuff said.

Thailand screwed up big time when law was twisted to keep the elected reds out of parliament.

[BigBikeBKK]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

I see a female suicide bomber there. No wonder some people on this forum want to see them massacred.

Good lord- seems every single person in that crowd has been beaten with an ugly stick...

[Harryon]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

Document04.rtf

[BigBikeBKK]

Yes, Thaksin is probably a catalyst for this, but only because he gave people a vision of the future (health, education etc), and that's being taken from them.

Pardon me? You claim that health care and education are being taken away from 'them'? What in the world are you talking about?

[Insight]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.

Well done. Do you agree it's in any way indicative of current support for him?

First, most of them are underage teenage girls. Second, Facebook followers can be easily inflated. That aside, it doesn't mean that all Facebook followers are Thais. And just because they're members following Abhisit, doesn't mean that they support him or his ideas. They are following so that they can read what he blogs. You need to go and find out how Facebook works, buddy.

Being clued in on how Facebook apps function I'm pretty aware of how it functions, thanks.

Take a look at the comments coming in as justification for the support - His page is doing undeniably well, and given the numbers have doubled within the past month shows a significant opposition to what the red shirts demands IMHO. Whether this materialises as a force to fight the reds remains to be seen.

Dismiss it all you want. It's a clear indication of support for Abhisit to me.

[beerchang]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

Exactly! Are they queing for weapons? Don't think so.

There are 'followers of a cause' in every country in the world. Some of them don't participate in every action taken by the causes' 'leaders' and disagree absolutely with some of them.

There's good and bad everywhere.

[monkfish]

Jatuporn and his buddies make me sick. This is exactly the situation they've been trying to provoke - a big mess and some bodies to bring the government down. They knew the consequences, they don't give a dam_n about their own people.

Neither does Abhisit

Do you have an FXXXing clue what you are talking about?

You've been on these discussions for weeks now. Come on lets me give some facts about things you have claimed.

Number one. You have claimed repeatedly that the majority of Thais support the reds. I Challenge you to give me one credible link where that is so. All I ask is one credible link if you cand do that the I respect you.

If not shut up.

Looking at the map seems it could North against south??

[gotglue]

Please enjoy your future of mob rule with the Red Shirt Gang. While Burma is holding elections, your Thailand is headed for another military rule.

Welcome to the past.

Abhisit is the best opportunity for Thailand to break free from Cronyism and grow the middle class.

Wake up Thailand.

Ron Harrison

aye...if he was allowed to Ron

[monkfish]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

Exactly! Are they queing for weapons? Don't think so.

There are 'followers of a cause' in every country in the world. Some of them don't participate in every action taken by the causes' 'leaders' and disagree absolutely with some of them.

There's good and bad everywhere.

These are insurgents?

Edited April 10, 2010 by monkfish

[Franz81]

Maybe protesters returning weapons to the army ??? As was reported in the press

yes you are right..... but the press say also this now:

At least 230 soldiers were injured as they tried to disperse the red shirts

protesters on Saturday, Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said.

Ninety of them were seriously injured. Most of them were injured from bullet and sharpnels wounds.

from the nation

[commons]

Abhisit has 162,000 Facebook members from what I can see, yes.

Well done. Do you agree it's in any way indicative of current support for him?

First, most of them are underage teenage girls. Second, Facebook followers can be easily inflated. That aside, it doesn't mean that all Facebook followers are Thais. And just because they're members following Abhisit, doesn't mean that they support him or his ideas. They are following so that they can read what he blogs. You need to go and find out how Facebook works, buddy.

buddy, that was quite an amazing feat. to break down abhisit's followers the way you do... into "underage teenage girls" + "inflated numbers" (any source what you're talking about?) + "non-thais". _buddy_, how did you _do_ that?

_BUDDY_, please tell me more about fb.

& keep on spewing mind spin.

[473geo]

What I find interesting is the 'crackdown' is justified by many as been due to the undeniable fact the 'Reds' were breaking the law.

Has it suddenly become acceptable to begin executing random perpetrators, without trial, for breaking the law?

[BigBikeBKK]

The soldiers were upholding the law of their country against rebel insurgents. 'Nuff said.

Thailand screwed up big time when law was twisted to keep the elected reds out of parliament.

What law was twisted exactly? Are you upset because Taksin's TRT party was convicted and dissolved as a result of electoral fraud and vote buying? Was good to see justice served in that case. Only a red would think it's ok to buy and sell votes and yet claim they want 'democracy'... But then we all know that these protests aren't about democracy at all.

[pagallim]

Is this really how to deal with what was essentially a sit in?

n's don't break through police lines to get into parliament, army lines to get into a satelite station and army barracks.

A sit in? Sure they've been sitting at Central world putting thousands of people out of work. But they've also been running around Bangkok like maniacs provoking the soldiers, the police, the media and anyone else they can get close to. By the way don't forget that the reds often protested outside TV stations. I'm sure if they had been able they would have happily censored what was on the air. They believe in freedom of their speech, freedom for them to assemble, freedom to vote if it's for their party. The reds don't care about the rights and freedoms of people who don't share their point of view. This is far more complicated that a sit in. No one is going to accept the excuse of "we were just sitting here".

How many people were killed in those instances ..................None.

The deaths came last night/tonight. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How truly ignorant can you be? The reds have been breaking the law and have been advocating violence the whole time. They have finally got what they have been asking for and now you try to make them out to be the victims? You can fool some of the people some of the time but I don't think many will buy your rhetoric now.

Abhisit has been very calm and very balanced and avoided strong confrontation and avoided violence. Full marks.

Thaksin is solidly pushing his murky red leaders to cause a frontation and try to win.

Why? Simple, thaksin knows very well that his time is running out fast, abhisit is gaining ground quickly, more and more Thais can see that abhisit is achieving good things and he's becoming stronger all the time as he works his way through the minefiled he inherited.

Abhisit has alreday put in place policy directives which will provide a better share of the wealth, provide better education and opportunity for all Thais and this especially means the poor. (and not by poulistist handouts which fix nothing.)

The red leaders can't keep these truths from their Essan followers forever. That's why they are pushing now before their time runs out.

Best comment so far. It has everything what i wanted to say

Possibly what you wanted to say, but really the truth? For most objective people, these phoney grenade attacks that never seem to cause any form of substantial damage, resulting in the most minor of injuries for those who happen to have been too close, have been the work of either the government forces themselves, or another entity such as the PAD. I'm fairly sure that if the PAD had really wanted to cause substantial impact with such resources, they would have done so. All manipulated to create an atmosphere where the Government could justify 'stronger' action. Hence the demonstration at the Parliament building, and Suthep in particular.

I don't think most objective observers can feel anything other than empathy with the UDD, having their sole TV station shut down, whilst not so long ago, the PAD's ASTV ran 24/7 for months (and continues to do so), spewing forth crap and innuendo, rumour and scandal.

Running around Bangkok like maniacs? Strange, not seen too much of that. Last time that I saw that happening was during the occupation of the airports in 2008, with the seizure of police, presence of armed protesters, gangs of thugs, intimidation of the innocent etc etc.

Talk about fooling all of the people all of the time, you've been singularly fooled, at least on this occasion. Wake up and smell the tear gas. Abhisit has shown himself for what he really is, a weak tool of the Amart, whom they won't have the slightest conscience in abandoning when it suits them. In truth, I really think that he knows that himself also.

OMG!!! Absolutely ridiculous. Amazing how you make the reds out to be the victims. They have broken the law, have done everything they could to provoke violence then try to make themselves out as innocents. Please tell me one other place in the world where this would have been allowed to continue this long. Abhisit has shown incredible restraint and it is every governments duty to protect the mojarity against special interest groups with their own agendas. The station was inciting civil disobedience and was advocating violence. This is illegal in any country and should never be allowed to continue. You reds wanted the violence now you got it so do not expect to convince others that you are victims. The real victims are the citizens and tourists whose lives have been affected by your selfish escapades.

What an absolute piece of nonsense, and you patently don't live here. The UDD sought no confrontation whatsoever for approaching one month, and it was only the actions of the Government (i.e. closing their sole TV station down) that prompted their move on Thaicom. You obviously don't realise the pressure from coalition and associated entities that Abhisit has had to deal with. Why do you think you've seen so many video footage and photos of the UDD and Army/Police exchanging handshakes etc?

Bottom line, Abhisit hasn't made the call, someone else has, but Abhisit is the one who's going to have to live with the aftermath. All he has to do was maintain his non-confrontational approach, be patient, and let everyone disperse. But no, he bowed to pressure, and as can be seen from the events of this evening, you back an animal into a corner and threaten it, it will retaliate.

Again, TV station citing and promoting civil disobedience? Have you ever watched ASTV (or even heard of it?)? Your post is asinine, get some facts and background, and come back and apologise.

Edited April 10, 2010 by pagallim

[commons]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

Here are your terrorists

Exactly! Are they queing for weapons? Don't think so.

There are 'followers of a cause' in every country in the world. Some of them don't participate in every action taken by the causes' 'leaders' and disagree absolutely with some of them.

There's good and bad everywhere.

These are insurgents!

monkfish, nice try. people died, people have been injured. time for TV-commentator-fun _IS OVER_.

[Insight]

When rival factions call a ceasefire, it's usually because they don't want to carry on fighting. Are you disputing that it has been a bloody clapdown? Does motivating people to fight and then calling a ceasefire seem like a coherent strategy to you? I think your post was unnecessarilly inflammatory.

I think parading dead bodies of comrades fallen in arms on stage is a strategy to "rouse the troops", so to speak. But if I appear inflammatory it's time for a break.

Good night.

[Mitker]

Belgium.

Really sorry for your self-confidence.

So Mitkier , which western country are you from ?

Sorry but your post really sound fake

[whiterussian]

advance. advance.

Edited April 10, 2010 by whiterussian

[moresomekl]

Yet someone else who probably doesn't live here, quotes Western or similar standards of expected behaviour, and offers nothing other that a few 'tut tut's'.

You need to get the background of why this particular group of protestors feel so strongly. You also need to reconcile that with for the past few weeks they've been demonstrating peacefully and other that the 'normal' civic disruption in terms of traffic flow and access, have had no issue.

I was particularly taken by your comment "Abhisit has shown incredible restraint and it is every governments duty to protect the mojarity against special interest groups with their own agendas", which is precisely what the protests are all about. The minority having disregard for the welfare of the majority. Abhisit represents a section of Thai society that continually demonstrates dismissal of others, and in fact Abhisit himself is only a pawn in a much larger game. He continually defers to others to make 'hard' decisions, and in effect is only a spokesman for those who control him. Yes, Thaksin is probably a catalyst for this, but only because he gave people a vision of the future (health, education etc), and that's being taken from them.

I would not worry to much about Abhisit and his illegitimate governement . He will soon be discarted by his masters as a scapegoat .

But where is the PT ? why are they not moving along together with the red shirt , that would certainly make a big difference in image and credibility

Edited April 10, 2010 by moresomekl

[firestar]

The soldiers were upholding the law of their country against rebel insurgents. 'Nuff said.

Thailand screwed up big time when law was twisted to keep the elected reds out of parliament.

What law was twisted exactly? Are you upset because Taksin's TRT party was convicted and dissolved as a result of electoral fraud and vote buying? Was good to see justice served in that case. Only a red would think it's ok to buy and sell votes and yet claim they want 'democracy'... But then we all know that these protests aren't about democracy at all.

Maybe he is upset because only TRT was dissolved when vote buying happens on all sides.

Just like People Channel is shut down but not ASTV, websites are closed but not others, etc.

Edited April 10, 2010 by firestar