Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[yoshiwara]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

This is the level of argument presented by the average red supporter.

500 baht doesn't get you so much these days.

Keep on throwing the molotov cocktails boys.

And don't forget to load the AK47s.

But never forget to lie.

Thaksin has showed you well.

Do it.

[Sunderland]

There is more to this than the obvious - paid protesters do not die for smth they do not believe in. They die for a cause. There is blood on everyone's hands - govt/red shirts/military. Let's hope common sense on all sides will come into play and thailand can be a peaceful place again.

Hopefully out of this tragedy, some real democratic champions will appear - and consign the likes of Jatuporn, Arisman, Thaksin , military, yellow shirts and those that are "invisible" to the dustbin. The sad thing is, that probably the majority of people in this country support neither red or yellow - but would certainly support an inclusive political party that has no ties to all the old established corrupt, power hungry political cliques.

I agree Khun Toad - lock the red leaders, abhisit/cohorts and the military leaders w/Khun T all in the monkey house. They all are to blame for this BS.

I agree with both of you ...

[tominbkk]

Another silly thing is how did the reds get those bodies back? Shouldn't their be autopsies? Maybe they were afraid that the rounds recovered wouldn't be military issue?

Spot on, I didn't think about that! UDD drags the bodies around BKK for a few days, then gets rid of them on their own terms. No evidence left!

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

[hammered]

There is more to this than the obvious - paid protesters do not die for smth they do not believe in. They die for a cause. There is blood on everyone's hands - govt/red shirts/military. Let's hope common sense on all sides will come into play and thailand can be a peaceful place again.

Hopefully out of this tragedy, some real democratic champions will appear - and consign the likes of Jatuporn, Arisman, Thaksin , military, yellow shirts and those that are "invisible" to the dustbin. The sad thing is, that probably the majority of people in this country support neither red or yellow - but would certainly support an inclusive political party that has no ties to all the old established corrupt, power hungry political cliques.

I agree Khun Toad - lock the red leaders, abhisit/cohorts and the military leaders w/Khun T all in the monkey house. They all are to blame for this BS.

At times like this it is sickening to look at all the different characters on different that are just using people to such an extreme end. People arent just a bunch of pawns on a chess board. If the leaders on every side were just willing to compromise instead of needing to win there would be nobody dead. Just think a week or so ago and the difference was 15 days and 9 months. There isnt really much difference or certainly no difference worth dying over.

[FarangCravings]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

Hey Dude the Yellows took money also last year No different also its the goverment killing the people just seen on tv thai soldgiers shooting M16s rounds into the crowd

hmm thats not a crime huh

Edited April 11, 2010 by FarangCravings

[jeanpierre]

It is very sad that people, both red shirts and soldiers, died because of a conflict between rich politicians who don't care about people. Both parties have these deaths on their consciences. RIP

welcome to the real world

[humfurry]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

Hey Dude the Yellows took money also last year No different

Yes paid politics is indeed a staple in this country. The difference is the level of violence wouldn't you agree?

[FarangCravings]

Like I said before unfortunately Thailand is not ready for democracy best let the army rule as we know if the reds win it will be the exact same thing but this time the yellows out there causing havoc

no matter if elctions are held and its one man one vote NOTHING WILL CHANGE the losing party will start to cause trouble

If the elitists were smart they would let the Army rule and then they could continue holding the poor donw while still coercing with the army and filling there pockets.

[bagheera65]

Listen, it's very simple: Abhisit offered to had election in six months instead than next year or so. Why the hel_l the reds didn't accept this and been back their home, waiting peacefully for the new elections?

Not 6 months, but 9 months. And he wanted to swap the army generals first with the ones that support him and also change the constitution in order for the election laws to benefit his party.

I'm glad you said that because now the things - if they were not before - are clear: it's simply a fight for power, that's what it is. The reds is just a group who want to take the power.

It's interesting to note that they didn't asked the government to create measures for those who are poor - which is supposed to be the origin of the problem. No, they asked the government to get the <deleted>++ed out of here. They coud have demonstrate for this reason (to create measures for those who are poor) which was a good one, but no, they simply want to take the power.

[tominbkk]

Your opinion is clearly biased against the red.

Calling them criminals disqualify your whole argumentation.

They tried to raid an army headquarters to kill soldiers.

They threatened to derail the BTS while people were commuting.

They threw molotov cocktails into troops.

You wouldn't call these criminal actions?

I would list another hundred things they did but those three are pretty good qualifications for me, especially when a SOE is in place.

The country bumpkins were lucky they just didn't mow them all down.

Shameless post.

Sometimes the truth hurts. The government does not want violence, but the red shirt mob is giving them no choice. the spoiled children in red need the spanking they have been screaming for the last 3 weeks.

Head of the reds, Seh Dang, just said he is ready to kill as many soldiers as he needs to to meet the objectives of the reds. Now THAT is shameless!

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

Hey Dude the Yellows took money also last year No different also its the goverment killing the people just seen on tv thai soldgiers shooting M16s rounds into the crowd

hmm thats not a crime huh

Well Dude, i do not support what the yellows did either. since when do two wrongs make a right? And as for the soldiers shooting into the crowds, I will again say, Please look at the videos that show the front line when this all kicked off.

The military was right to try and disperse the crowd and put an end to the seige of Bkk. They used restraint for over a month and when the reds clearly escalated the violence the army is then justified to react with equal deadly force.

Let's not forget who has been preaching WAR for the last month. You asked for it and you got it so just accept the resposibilties of your actions, the governments has (if you are listening).

[midas]

There is more to this than the obvious - paid protesters do not die for smth they do not believe in. They die for a cause. There is blood on everyone's hands - govt/red shirts/military. Let's hope common sense on all sides will come into play and thailand can be a peaceful place again.

Hopefully out of this tragedy, some real democratic champions will appear - and consign the likes of Jatuporn, Arisman, Thaksin , military, yellow shirts and those that are "invisible" to the dustbin. The sad thing is, that probably the majority of people in this country support neither red or yellow - but would certainly support an inclusive political party that has no ties to all the old established corrupt, power hungry political cliques.

Yes yes..............we can call it " Thai Rak Thai "

[FarangCravings]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

Hey Dude the Yellows took money also last year No different also its the goverment killing the people just seen on tv thai soldgiers shooting M16s rounds into the crowd

hmm thats not a crime huh

Well Dude, i do not support what the yellows did either. since when do two wrongs make a right? And as for the soldiers shooting into the crowds, I will again say, Please look at the videos that show the front line when this all kicked off.

The military was right to try and disperse the crowd and put an end to the seige of Bkk. They used restraint for over a month and when the reds clearly escalated the violence the army is then justified to react with equal deadly force.

Let's not forget who has been preaching WAR for the last month. You asked for it and you got it so just accept the resposibilties of your actions, the governments has (if you are listening).

I dont support reds or yellows I think they are all the same however I do understand that the reds are downtrodden by the bankok elite and have been for hundreds of years finally the reds are getting themselves a voice and history shows that it takes bloodshed to finally bring change and equality.

thaksin really has nothing to do with this anymore you dont think they are there for 500baht to be shot at with real bullets there is more too it than that

[bagheera65]

The fact is, Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country. That is impossible to refute....

Let's be frank here, Thaksin was a successful and ambitious man. Like many men in his position, he misused and abused his power.

But he's not worst than the others....

Two things about the quote above: 1) Thaksin not worst than the others? You forgot the 2500 people killed without trial in the drug war and the others who died by suffocate during the war in the south. So, so far Abhisit has killed much much less people than thaksin.

Now, 2) Did "Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country"? Yes, and it is indeed impossible to refute. And i think the BIG mistake of the current government has been to don't do for these people the same help than Thaksin did. If they were using the 43 billion baths they take from Thaksin wealth to help the poor people, that would be smart.

[LuckyFive8888]

[donsuyi]

Tyrant government who kill their own people. Coward army that fuc_k their own citizen.

The supporter of this kind of government that are blind, they can not see that majority people will vote for thaksin.

Keep struggle for red shirts, ASEAN citizen will support you to bring down the tyrant regime

So the thousands of Thais that Taksin was responsible for having killed were not citizens? Taksin should be in jail for crimes against humanity. If the reds ever expect to be taken serious then they should not take money to protest or vote and they should pick a leader that has at least a little but of morality and not just one that is out to get his cach back at the expense of poor farmers lives. He must really love his people to let them die for his benefit while he drinks champagne in a foreign country.

Hey Dude the Yellows took money also last year No different also its the goverment killing the people just seen on tv thai soldgiers shooting M16s rounds into the crowd

hmm thats not a crime huh

Well Dude, i do not support what the yellows did either. since when do two wrongs make a right? And as for the soldiers shooting into the crowds, I will again say, Please look at the videos that show the front line when this all kicked off.

The military was right to try and disperse the crowd and put an end to the seige of Bkk. They used restraint for over a month and when the reds clearly escalated the violence the army is then justified to react with equal deadly force.

Let's not forget who has been preaching WAR for the last month. You asked for it and you got it so just accept the resposibilties of your actions, the governments has (if you are listening).

Let arrange general election ASAP, why do you afraid? You still can arrange a military coup when you fail to win the election. The initial problem is come from you, the rich yellow shirts supporters

[FarangCravings]

The fact is, Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country. That is impossible to refute....

Let's be frank here, Thaksin was a successful and ambitious man. Like many men in his position, he misused and abused his power.

But he's not worst than the others....

Two things about the quote above: 1) Thaksin not worst than the others? You forgot the 2500 people killed without trial in the drug war and the others who died by suffocate during the war in the south. So, so far Abhisit has killed much much less people than thaksin.

Now, 2) Did "Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country"? Yes, and it is indeed impossible to refute. And i think the BIG mistake of the current government has been to don't do for these people the same help than Thaksin did. If they were using the 43 billion baths they take from Thaksin wealth to help the poor people, that would be smart.

Yeah but Abhisit is well on his way though is he not his murder rate is already at 10

I agree Thaksin is no better than the yellows unfortunately he was better at it that they were and they got upset with him

Yes but we know the money is probably already in there pockets, they will never use ti for the poor cause they dont give a S*&^%T about the poor

[bagheera65]

Let arrange general election ASAP, why do you afraid? You still can arrange a military coup when you fail to win the election. The initial problem is come from you, the rich yellow shirts supporters

Why not arrange a new election right now? Simply because Thailand has a constitution and is a democracy.

If any group comes to ask for a new election because they can't wait for a new one, then it's not democracy anymore, it's the beginning of chaos.

[FarangCravings]

Let arrange general election ASAP, why do you afraid? You still can arrange a military coup when you fail to win the election. The initial problem is come from you, the rich yellow shirts supporters

Why not arrange a new election right now? Simply because Thailand has a constitution and is a democracy.

If any group comes to ask for a new election because they can't wait for a new one, then it's not democracy anymore, it's the beginning of chaos.

There is no democracy here simple as that with either side

[TITI1971]

People shouldn't underestimate the power of disinformation.

The disinformation which hurt the most the Red Shirt is about the allegations of corruption of Thaksin.

He is labelled as "Corrupted" so instantly relegated as the bad guy.

But as everything else, corruption is quantifiable.

People usually watch the superficial, official story and make up their mind with that. Corrupted=Bad.

The truth is much more subtle and complex than that.

Just like the Temasek-Shin Corp deal. People think Thaksin evaded taxes illegally. It is false. The deal was legal. Where he did wrong was that he used his power and political influence to bend the law to allow a foreign company to own a telecommunication company of Thailand, which was impossible before.

The other corruption accusations.. his wife buying from the IFDF, the appointment of relatives to key positions, etc. Those are relatively bad, but also relatively harmless. Someone overly by the book could argue that no corruption at all should be tolerated in any circumstances, but it wouldn't fit in the real world as corruption is practically everywhere, including in the West. We could argue that the US Republicans were infinitely more corrupted than Thaksin and that caused wars but thats another story.

This story of corruption was tightly knit by his opponents. This is simply politic warfare, nothing less.

The fact is, Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country. That is impossible to refute.

His opponents were mainly middle-class from Bangkok, who felt left-out with "region-oriented" policies of Thaksin.

Let's be frank here, Thaksin was a successful and ambitious man. Like many men in his position, he misused and abused his power.

But he's not worst than the others. He's not worst than the current prime minister, Abhisit Vejajiva who cunningly found his way to the top. Abhisit was also charged for a lot of corruption cases (bribes, inflated prices, conflit of interests and shuch) , with the difference that tribunal ruled against Thaksin and cleared Abhisit. He is still under investigations for other cases of corruption.

Let's not forget that Thaksin got ousted by the military, which is highly undemocratic.

The Commander-in-Chief at the time of the coup d'état was openly opposed to Thaksin (because Thaksin appointed relatives in the Army) and it explain why the coup happened.

Let's also not forget that Abhisit party got less seats than the UDD supported Pheu Thai Party and only got power because of a coalition of 5 parties.

How would you feel if the party who helped you get out of poverty, helped you to get better access to health care won the elections but didn't govern ?

Most likely, if you are politically active, you would be protesting in the street, like the UDD is doing.

Now are they right, are they wrong, that's not for us to judge, but its definitely justified.

+1 approve totally

[deejay01]

The fact is, Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country. That is impossible to refute....

Let's be frank here, Thaksin was a successful and ambitious man. Like many men in his position, he misused and abused his power.

But he's not worst than the others....

Two things about the quote above: 1) Thaksin not worst than the others? You forgot the 2500 people killed without trial in the drug war and the others who died by suffocate during the war in the south. So, so far Abhisit has killed much much less people than thaksin.

Now, 2) Did "Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country"? Yes, and it is indeed impossible to refute. And i think the BIG mistake of the current government has been to don't do for these people the same help than Thaksin did. If they were using the 43 billion baths they take from Thaksin wealth to help the poor people, that would be smart.

Good point about the war on drug, but not the whole 2,500 where executed. I mean, if they were shot in actions, we cannot blame the army not to bring them into trial.. they are already KIA. But yes, a certain number were executed, which is bad. The good part is, the drug did decline in Thailand.

I'm political about Thailand simply because the family of my wife is political. And you see, those living in Bangkok are pretty much Yellow supporters and those living in Tak (where most of them live) are heavy red partisans.

I can't say I fully approve the Red cause.. but at the same time I'm sympathetic to their cause, considering the huge gap between Bangkok and other regions wealth. In my home country (Quebec, Canada) I notice a huge political apathy where people say "well.. there is nothing we can do about it.. fuc_king government". At least in that situation, we see people standing up to defend their cause.. for the better and unfortunately, the worst.

Edited April 11, 2010 by deejay01

[FarangCravings]

People shouldn't underestimate the power of disinformation.

The disinformation which hurt the most the Red Shirt is about the allegations of corruption of Thaksin.

He is labelled as "Corrupted" so instantly relegated as the bad guy.

But as everything else, corruption is quantifiable.

People usually watch the superficial, official story and make up their mind with that. Corrupted=Bad.

The truth is much more subtle and complex than that.

Just like the Temasek-Shin Corp deal. People think Thaksin evaded taxes illegally. It is false. The deal was legal. Where he did wrong was that he used his power and political influence to bend the law to allow a foreign company to own a telecommunication company of Thailand, which was impossible before.

The other corruption accusations.. his wife buying from the IFDF, the appointment of relatives to key positions, etc. Those are relatively bad, but also relatively harmless. Someone overly by the book could argue that no corruption at all should be tolerated in any circumstances, but it wouldn't fit in the real world as corruption is practically everywhere, including in the West. We could argue that the US Republicans were infinitely more corrupted than Thaksin and that caused wars but thats another story.

This story of corruption was tightly knit by his opponents. This is simply politic warfare, nothing less.

The fact is, Thaksin clearly improved the living conditions of the often forgotten people living up-country. That is impossible to refute.

His opponents were mainly middle-class from Bangkok, who felt left-out with "region-oriented" policies of Thaksin.

Let's be frank here, Thaksin was a successful and ambitious man. Like many men in his position, he misused and abused his power.

But he's not worst than the others. He's not worst than the current prime minister, Abhisit Vejajiva who cunningly found his way to the top. Abhisit was also charged for a lot of corruption cases (bribes, inflated prices, conflit of interests and shuch) , with the difference that tribunal ruled against Thaksin and cleared Abhisit. He is still under investigations for other cases of corruption.

Let's not forget that Thaksin got ousted by the military, which is highly undemocratic.

The Commander-in-Chief at the time of the coup d'état was openly opposed to Thaksin (because Thaksin appointed relatives in the Army) and it explain why the coup happened.

Let's also not forget that Abhisit party got less seats than the UDD supported Pheu Thai Party and only got power because of a coalition of 5 parties.

How would you feel if the party who helped you get out of poverty, helped you to get better access to health care won the elections but didn't govern ?

Most likely, if you are politically active, you would be protesting in the street, like the UDD is doing.

Now are they right, are they wrong, that's not for us to judge, but its definitely justified.

+1 approve totally

Clear consise intelligetn post shame more posters cant follow suit

+1 more

[TITI1971]

Let arrange general election ASAP, why do you afraid? You still can arrange a military coup when you fail to win the election. The initial problem is come from you, the rich yellow shirts supporters

Why not arrange a new election right now? Simply because Thailand has a constitution and is a democracy.

If any group comes to ask for a new election because they can't wait for a new one, then it's not democracy anymore, it's the beginning of chaos.

Demonstrations works many times with yellows... so reds want the same...

And democracy for me is to accept the vote of the Thai citizen... they didn't voted democrats more than PPP or PTP... Democrats use all their connection with the court for disband as many opposite members for do pressure on the small other political part to change their mind and do a new coallition with democrat...

In normal country when you see disfunctions in the official vote you organise a new vote... note use the court for ban all the opposite members you can and say you win election by Thai peoples ballots...

This is democracy, real one. vote and respect the color of the result... not sure it will be red next time...but respect the vote !

[bagheera65]

There is no democracy here simple as that with either side

From the moment there is an election with different party and people can vote for who they want, it's a democratic process.

Now, once again, they should fight to have measures for the poor, not to take the power. That would be a fair fight, and they would have probably the support of everyone, even the one who are not reds, except of course those who defends their privilege.

Edited April 11, 2010 by bagheera65

[bagheera65]

And democracy for me is to accept the vote of the Thai citizen... they didn't voted democrats more than PPP or PTP... Democrats use all their connection with the court for disband as many opposite members for do pressure on the small other political part to change their mind and do a new coallition with democrat...

In normal country when you see disfunctions in the official vote you organise a new vote... note use the court for ban all the opposite members you can and say you win election by Thai peoples ballots...

This is democracy, real one. vote and respect the color of the result... not sure it will be red next time...but respect the vote !

Yes, but everybody must respect the vote, even the one who lose or cheat.

[Scott]

Several posts have been deleted for being inflammatory. Please respond to the information in the post, not negatively toward the poster.

[humfurry]

That's a scary pic... love the fact that he is wearing gloves as well. And the Red supporters answer to this pic will be Fake Red! Fake pic! Fake rifle!

[473geo]

That's a scary pic... love the fact that he is wearing gloves as well. And the Red supporters answer to this pic will be Fake Red! Fake pic! Fake rifle!

Well if you look at the faces and body language of the two guys behind........they do not appear to welcome these guys at all!!

[deejay01]

Another silly thing is how did the reds get those bodies back? Shouldn't their be autopsies? Maybe they were afraid that the rounds recovered wouldn't be military issue?

Spot on, I didn't think about that! UDD drags the bodies around BKK for a few days, then gets rid of them on their own terms. No evidence left!

The reason for this is during the last red protest in 2009, the red claimed dead in their ranks but the police claims there was no dead. Then they found 2 red protesters dead in the river, tied up and beaten.

So, it is widely believed by the red that army want to dissimulate the death toll, explaining why they were fighting for the bodies.