Bangkok: 10+ Dead, Hundreds Hurt In Bangkok Clashes

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

[e]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

Can you name one "civilised" country that doesn't use it's military and/or national guard to back up police in event of civil unrest?

police are not set up to handle the numbers here, and use of the military is fully justified. You want the killing to stop? So does everbody else, except for those screaming "WAR!" and "No negotiation!" What colour shirt are they wearing?

I think you best peruse this forum and some of your like minded posters. Also and article published byt the Nation a couple of days ago. You will find many posters, Democrat Senators, and New Politics members calling for violent crackdown.

Oh yeah, The United States specificlly prohibits US Armed forces from engaging in police activity with it's own citizenry.

National guard are citizen soldier militia, taking orders from state governors.

But, please answer my questions.

How many people can the army kill in this "civil unrest" before it is too many?

How many of the "red menace" threats came to fruition and how many dead bodies did they generate?

How many are dead after 1 day of military intervention?

So what is your suggestion then? let the red run rough shot over Bkk forever? They are breaking the law, the other option here for those peace loving reds (sarcasm again) is to simply go home or at least protest in smaller groups without disrupting other peoples lives.

[madi]

[e]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

Can you name one "civilised" country that doesn't use it's military and/or national guard to back up police in event of civil unrest?

police are not set up to handle the numbers here, and use of the military is fully justified. You want the killing to stop? So does everbody else, except for those screaming "WAR!" and "No negotiation!" What colour shirt are they wearing?

I think you best peruse this forum and some of your like minded posters. Also and article published byt the Nation a couple of days ago. You will find many posters, Democrat Senators, and New Politics members calling for violent crackdown.

Oh yeah, The United States specificlly prohibits US Armed forces from engaging in police activity with it's own citizenry.

National guard are citizen soldier militia, taking orders from state governors.

But, please answer my questions.

How many people can the army kill in this "civil unrest" before it is too many?

How many of the "red menace" threats came to fruition and how many dead bodies did they generate?

How many are dead after 1 day of military intervention?

So what is your suggestion then? let the red run rough shot over Bkk forever? They are breaking the law, the other option here for those peace loving reds (sarcasm again) is to simply go home or at least protest in smaller groups without disrupting other peoples lives.

Law?

Since when did the ruling regime care about law?

The same regime which has sat by as over 20 coups have occurred?

Funny you calling for the reds to follow the law when it is the ruling regime which shows with all the coups that is has no regard what so ever for democratic elections and laws.

[Beardog]

Is this really how to deal with what was essentially a sit in?

Sit in's don't break through police lines to get into parliament, army lines to get into a satelite station and army barracks.

So they attacked the reds at the parliament? At the Tv station? At the Barracks?????

NO they attacked the sit in!

I think you are perhaps a bit misguided. A sit in is where you do not provoke violence & are sitting not warmongering & insisting the other side to actively engage. I was in Chicago" 7 at the sit in in the 60's when Mayor daily nailed the protest with tear gas The only person that actively engaged was ONE protester picked up the teargas canister & lobbed it up into the office 4 doors from the mayors office. The cops where choking on their own gas because they did not think they would need masks in the building. The man could have been an all time quarterback! as for the Chicago 7 trial that was a true sit in. This is not.

[LomSak27]

QUOTE (aussimike @ 2010-04-11 08:31:47) *

QUOTE (connel707 @ 2010-04-11 08:02:35) *

QUOTE (Miiyai46 @ 2010-04-10 23:13:01) *

People channel has just informed that the militars are trying

to take back the dead bodies from the hospital?!? Is there

anything to hide?

Are you a complete fool, The Army always reclaim the bodies of their dead soldiers in any country...

who is the fool --- they want the bodies so that they cant prove that they were killed with live rounds not rubber bullets or other means - its was plain to see on tv that they were using live rounds -- sure some of the army had rubber bullets - but plenty of live rounds -- saw a fell belt of 50 cal live rounds -- and rubber bullets dont kill ---

In case some of you are forgetting ... the thai military has a history of grabbing bodies and burying them in secret - in 92 and 76. That way the number s are smaller ... and they are just ... MISSING ...presumed but what happend no one knows

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Law?

Since when did the ruling regime care about law?

The same regime which has sat by as over 20 coups have occurred?

Funny you calling for the reds to follow the law when it is the ruling regime which shows with all the coups that is has no regard what so ever for democratic elections and laws.

Buying votes and then watching people when they vote to make sure they have voted for what they were paid is in no way legal or democratic. Holding a city hostage even after the PM has agreed to hold new elections in 9 months is just asking for trouble. You clearly have been brainwashed with the rest of the war monger reds and will not listen to any reason. You and your crew have been smearing blood all over Bkk and asking for your war, well now you have what you have been looking for for the last month. The blood is on your hands too, I hope you and the rest are happy with your desired outcome. Please stop bitching about getting what you have been seeking.

[madi]

Just a few nights ago I said this might happen.

I noted American civil rights riots.

I said-Burn Baby Burn.

A couple of you laughed at this.

Laughing now?

Note that the army group that fired upon the Thai people in a fight that saw 15 dead and over 500 wounded, will be under severe pressure now by other military groups which were very opposed to such crazy and violent actions on Thai people.

If the military should split and the fight continue, we could end up with a modern civil way of sorts.

Instead of the Blue and Grey we would have the blue and reds.

The reds obviously are not backing down this time.

WAR

[brahmburgers]

Law? Since when did the ruling regime care about law? The same regime which has sat by as over 20 coups have occurred? Funny you calling for the reds to follow the law when it is the ruling regime which shows with all the coups that is has no regard what so ever for democratic elections and laws.

Madi, you and other Red shirt apologists need to read up on Thai history, both past and present. Are you now blaming Abhisit for all previous coups? There were two PM's between the most recent coup and Abhisit's term as PM. Abhisit was able to form a ruling coalition according to Parliamentary procedure. It may not have been to your liking, but tough tamales. Wait until the next election cycle and campaign for whomever you like.

I happen to like Abhisit and will be the 1st to admit that he's a lot more patient of a person than I. If I'd been PM, I would have gathered my top brass around me and gauge whether they're taking orders from me or not. If not, I'd fire them. Then I'd outline a clear policy and make sure everyone was doing their jobs. Any security people who filched on their responsibilities, (like the soldiers who walked off to the rice field when they were supposed to be guarding a TV station) would be disciplined. I know it's not easy for Abhisit to keep the security forces disciplined, but he's doing a rather good job - certainly a big improvement over the past 3 days. Let's call it 'on the job training'. Hang in there Abhisit. I'm behind you, as are most Thais, if the opinion polls are to be believed. Certainly the Red movement is losing support in droves. It will be v. interesting when the next election rolls around - to see how low the Red #'s have fallen.

[otherstuff1957]

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

[humfurry]

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

Covering the cameras at the Plenchit BTS station.

Edited April 11, 2010 by humfurry

[Beardog]

Ahh It might be Taksin is a criminal on the run & insiting a war so he can get what he believes his stinkin money back at any cost while he dines on caviar, champagne, & truffles while watching the bought & paid for fools die.

Or maybe it is because of his self centered egotistical nature. This war is all about his money & absolutely nothing to do with democracy. If he truly cared about Thailand he would be assisting the poor with cash donations to better & enrich their lives upcountry. You can't bullshit a bullshitter & Mr T. Is full up on himself.

What makes him worse is he is funding this war.

Is that all you can say? Taksan?

Thai army shoots at Thais and kills at least 15 and wounded is over 500.

This is an act of war on Thais by the Thai ruling regime.

Your attempt to change the topic is pathetic.

Who ordered the army to shoot.

They are guilty of murder.

Madi if all your years on this planet you can't see the reality of this situation , I do feel truly sorry for you . By the time you are in elementary school in the U.S. You are taught to divine bullshit from reality. I know people in Buriram that were offered 1000 baht a day & 2000 for a truck. So it is about money.You can believe whatever you want to & I will feel sorry that you have mist the fundamental point of this skirmish-war.

on the other hand my heart does go out to the poor people that signed up for an extremely hideous deal that may cost them their lives as well as the police & soldiers who are forced into doing their job.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Beardog

[MellowYellow]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

I am not sure if we are agreeing here or disagreeing. But to answer your question, in my opinion 1 dead is too many, on either side. With that in mind I do not think anybody didn't see this coming and that is my only point. This is a very dangerous situation and has gotten progressively worse over the last few days. The combination of an unruly mob and the military face to face usually only leads to one conclusion, and here we are. Peace

OK we agree on the number.

1 dead from Thai on Thai violence is too many, especially when it is the government acting against it's own people.

The solution?

From here?

Hard to see.

I'm pretty sure the only sensible path does NOT involve further armed military intervention.

I'm pretty sure it does NOT involve retaliatory violence from the reds.

I don't see how, the sitting government, the red leaders or the generals escape this mess with much/any credibility.

[brahmburgers]

Just a few nights ago I said this might happen.

I noted American civil rights riots.

I said-Burn Baby Burn.

A couple of you laughed at this.

Laughing now?

Note that the army group that fired upon the Thai people in a fight that saw 15 dead and over 500 wounded, will be under severe pressure now by other military groups which were very opposed to such crazy and violent actions on Thai people.

If the military should split and the fight continue, we could end up with a modern civil way of sorts.

Instead of the Blue and Grey we would have the blue and reds.

The reds obviously are not backing down this time.

WAR

All that you're saying is what you want to have happen. The more mayhem, the better for the Reds, as they hope mayhem will paint the current gov't as callous and heathen. Well they're not. Public opinion is fast realizing it's the Reds who are heathen. Need examples? How about pouring disease tainted blood in public places. Another example? How about dragging corpses out of a hospital and displaying them on a public stage. What's next - voodoo animal blood letting rituals on stage / or virgins dropped in boiling vats of oil?

The Reds are getting a taste of what they've wanted for weeks: mayhem and injury and deaths. Unfortunately for them, it's making their leaders look like the crazies they are.

[madi]

So some ofyou are implying that the Reds, buy votes and that the other sides, backed by the regime and huge money, do not buy votes? A group that has done over 20 coups and some violent cares too much about the law to buy votes according to the logic you give. Bad bad red does bad bad. HAAAAA HAAAA

HAAAAA HAAAAA

One might conclude iif one were thinking, that a group that sits under gun fire and refuses to run--the reds, is motivated by more than 200 baht for a vote.

Keep up you jokes. They really are quite funny.

Reds are paid off?

So why is it the other side with more money than Taksin has, does not pay them off? OH--because they are too too honest?

HAAAAAAA HAAAAAA

Maybe the reds are not motivated by 200 baht.

[noel2499rk]

Pretty poor quality video here the sound is clear maybe someone can tell us what is being said?

Do we have any independent sources saying the protesters threw grenades or shot at the army, until we do I am not willing to take the word of Colonel Sansern .

[otherstuff1957]

A reporter who was at Democracy Monument last night has some interesting things to say:

Video

He seems to give a fairly balanced view.

[kurtgruen]

I was just watching part two, of the young guy, that took the good quality video. You sort of have to watch both parts, to make sense of it all, but I thought he had some good things to say, following his shooting of part one, which was posted earlier here...

http://www.youtube.com/user/thaifaq#p/a/u/1/AATZQeLIUCY

Sorry, forgot how to insert a youtube video

[CosmicSurfer]

Pretty poor quality video here the sound is clear maybe someone can tell us what is being said?

Do we have any independent sources saying the protesters threw grenades or shot at the army, until we do I am not willing to take the word of Colonel Sansern .

I was listening to a reporter from Channel NewsAsia reporting live from Kho San Rd. while Reds were chasing Police/Army down the road and throwing Fire bombs at them while they were chasing them.. You could hear the explosions in the background.. SHE definitely said it was the REDS throwing the bombs and doing the shooting. The Army was in retreat!

CS

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

I am not sure if we are agreeing here or disagreeing. But to answer your question, in my opinion 1 dead is too many, on either side. With that in mind I do not think anybody didn't see this coming and that is my only point. This is a very dangerous situation and has gotten progressively worse over the last few days. The combination of an unruly mob and the military face to face usually only leads to one conclusion, and here we are. Peace

OK we agree on the number.

1 dead from Thai on Thai violence is too many, especially when it is the government acting against it's own people.

The solution?

From here?

Hard to see.

I'm pretty sure the only sensible path does NOT involve further armed military intervention.

I'm pretty sure it does NOT involve retaliatory violence from the reds.

I don't see how, the sitting government, the red leaders or the generals escape this mess with much/any credibility.

Well, i am glad that we seem to agree on a few of the basics. You are right in saying that the solution is still not going to be easy, but I am not sure I agree with your perception that this is the military acting against it's people. I see this as a small special interst group acting against the government. If there was not any outside influence (Taksin) and if there were a million or more people on the streets all over Thailand then I might agree with you a bit more but the case is not that. The PM has agreed to new elections in 9 months. If that is not good enough and the reds still want more red then I am afraid they will again get their wish. Let's hope for everyones sake that the reds take theior victory and go home and have a peaceful Songkran with their loved ones. Peace

[moresomekl]

Samak, Somchai and Abhisit have all been PM after the coup.

I'm from a Western democracy that underwent several changes of coalitions within an electoral term. No problem with that since each government would result from elected MPs choice.

Just like it happened here in Thailand. No lack of democracy involved here.

Were these changes of coalitions the direct result of a military coup? I don't think so...

Hey Mitker

Nice to see you here . How is it in your country , Belgium , yu said ?

Well Belgium has been governed by a catholic party led coalition for the last

60 years . At every general election they are voted in .

Sorry to disapoint you but there no relation whatsoever

with the Abhisit illegitimate regime . Nor with the thai situation by

any strech of imagination.

[animatic]

[e]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

Can you name one "civilised" country that doesn't use it's military and/or national guard to back up police in event of civil unrest?

police are not set up to handle the numbers here, and use of the military is fully justified. You want the killing to stop? So does everbody else, except for those screaming "WAR!" and "No negotiation!" What colour shirt are they wearing?

I think you best peruse this forum and some of your like minded posters. Also and article published byt the Nation a couple of days ago. You will find many posters, Democrat Senators, and New Politics members calling for violent crackdown.

Oh yeah, The United States specificlly prohibits US Armed forces from engaging in police activity with it's own citizenry.

National guard are citizen soldier militia, taking orders from state governors.

But, please answer my questions.

How many people can the army kill in this "civil unrest" before it is too many?

How many of the "red menace" threats came to fruition and how many dead bodies did they generate?

How many are dead after 1 day of military intervention?

I see you confuse,

taking action to free the city from the red takeover attempt, even if that means some violence,

with calling for violence.

A none too subtle difference.

No one called for violence, except the red shirts.

Edited April 11, 2010 by animatic

[atyclb]

People who say the reds were only doing a sit in may be professional red propagandists. It is not imaginable that a normal person would actually believe that. Don't forget, there are professional pols posting here. I don't know why they care what foreigners think though.

.....because some foreigners are just doing exactly what you say the professional pols are doing here and elsewhere.

a penny for your thought................. : ::

Is there any reason why they simply cannot be the pool of normally delusional expats?

[noel2499rk]

I was just watching part two, of the young guy, that took the good quality video. You sort of have to watch both parts, to make sense of it all, but I thought he had some good things to say, following his shooting of part one, which was posted earlier here...

http://www.youtube.com/user/thaifaq#p/a/u/1/AATZQeLIUCY

Sorry, forgot how to insert a youtube video

Is that his part 2, I thought he was going to give us more footage of events. Part 1 is good though.

[anotherpeter]

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

What are they trying to hide?

[moresomekl]

[e]

How many dead is an acceptable number to stop the "mean people" on stage saying "mean things"?

What is the number who have to die before it is NOT OK to attack your own citizenry with the military?

How many can your tiger kill before it is too many?

Can you name one "civilised" country that doesn't use it's military and/or national guard to back up police in event of civil unrest?

police are not set up to handle the numbers here, and use of the military is fully justified. You want the killing to stop? So does everbody else, except for those screaming "WAR!" and "No negotiation!" What colour shirt are they wearing?

I think you best peruse this forum and some of your like minded posters. Also and article published byt the Nation a couple of days ago. You will find many posters, Democrat Senators, and New Politics members calling for violent crackdown.

Oh yeah, The United States specificlly prohibits US Armed forces from engaging in police activity with it's own citizenry.

National guard are citizen soldier militia, taking orders from state governors.

But, please answer my questions.

How many people can the army kill in this "civil unrest" before it is too many?

How many of the "red menace" threats came to fruition and how many dead bodies did they generate?

How many are dead after 1 day of military intervention?

I see you confuse,

taking action to free to city from the red takeover attempt, even if that means some violence,

with calling for violence.

A none too subtle difference.

No one called for violence, except the red shirts.

Oh yes sending the army with LIVE ammunition was the red fault ?

Oh yes shutting down the red TV while the yellow channel is spitting

lies day and night without problem was the red fault ?

So now with 11 deads yu must be happy I suppose . Dont worry

there might be more . Abhisit has not solved anything

So tired of that bunch of facists here and their illegitimate master .

Abhisit should resign now , he failed

[sbk]

ThaiVisa will not allow this forum to degenerate into a flame filled free for all and to that end, all moderators are dealing with those who cannot debate in a civil way with suspensions. So, a very public WARNING to everyone, if you cannot remain civil then do not post. I hope this is quite clear.

[plachon]

So some ofyou are implying that the Reds, buy votes and that the other sides, backed by the regime and huge money, do not buy votes? A group that has done over 20 coups and some violent cares too much about the law to buy votes according to the logic you give. Bad bad red does bad bad. HAAAAA HAAAA

HAAAAA HAAAAA

One might conclude iif one were thinking, that a group that sits under gun fire and refuses to run--the reds, is motivated by more than 200 baht for a vote.

Keep up you jokes. They really are quite funny.

Reds are paid off?

So why is it the other side with more money than Taksin has, does not pay them off? OH--because they are too too honest?

HAAAAAAA HAAAAAA

Maybe the reds are not motivated by 200 baht.

No it's not just 200 baht they are motivated by. It's 46 billion baht. Quite a difference, eh?

For what it's worth, I went round to the Reds protest site at Phanfa Bridge and walked up and down Ratchdamnern Road taking note of the atmosphere and looking at the posters, T-shirts, headbands, etc and felt I was in some sort of hero-worship zone to a single person. His image and name was plastered absolutely everywhere one looked. There were even fan club chapters from Isaan and the North devoted to his promotion. On the stage too, I heard his name invoked time after time, as if he could save the country by his return from self-imposed exile. Personally, I don't think Thailand has room for two demi-gods, as only one has earned his position, while the other has consistently destroyed the little credibility he once had in the most sad and pathetic way.

[Gold2005]

A good friend of mine who unfortunately died not so long ago said to me:

"Never talk politics or religion with friends and keep out of such discussions. Try to say nice things about people rather than bad and look for the good in life rather than dwell on the negative. Do that and you will find you will always have a happy time. Life is far too short to spend it hating."

Such wise words.

[kurtgruen]

I was just watching part two, of the young guy, that took the good quality video. You sort of have to watch both parts, to make sense of it all, but I thought he had some good things to say, following his shooting of part one, which was posted earlier here...

http://www.youtube.com/user/thaifaq#p/a/u/1/AATZQeLIUCY

Sorry, forgot how to insert a youtube video

Is that his part 2, I thought he was going to give us more footage of events. Part 1 is good though.

Yes, I was expecting more footage, too, but after listening to his commentary in part 2, I thought it was pretty interesting and put things into a little more perspective. It sounds, like there is supposed to be a part three, that is very graphic, but I haven't been able to locate it so far. Did anyone else find it?

[animatic]

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

What are they trying to hide?

Their own responsibility for this well prepared decent into violant intimidation of a nation.

[noel2499rk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8XHyyRUbNA

Reds re-enact tianamen square sitting in front of tanks here.