Thai Anti-Riot Squad Cut Up By Soldiers In Black

[mrparanoid]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/u...ticle6942041.ab

This is the video from the dead japan cameraman. Is it only in my fantasy I see black men in the red crowd about 39-40 seconds inte the clip. Thdey show up in the left for 2 seconds.

Yep. Looks like 2 or 3 of them, but it's difficult to tell.

Do you guys mean the 2, 3 soldiers with helmets helping other wounded soldiers together with the red shirts?

[chantorn]

I wonder where fugitives go in Thailand?

I imagine them in some remote hill tribe village setting.

Scary people out there.

http://www.boringdays.net/mystic-ak-47-fired-solder/

If you scroll down, you will find this post sign by a guy call Thaksin

"

13 April 2010 เมื่อ 04:06

Those pictures were posted in Pantip 5 hours after the crash..

The owner of those pics said that he took this shot while the red guard was seizing weapons from snipper..But you used these pics to discredit them all, how could you do this to other Thais?

The famous clip-the one which catched pictures of men in black outfits fired gun shots, if you look very closely without Bias..you will see that they were wearing black gloves not white..Uhm! just changed the gloves before shooting..sounds make sense or not, I believe you can answer it to yourself…

when you want to make an assumption which can be affected others, please carefully make it..if you are not quite sure then do not..it doesn’t make you look better or clever than anyone. Beside if one knows that you make a wrong assumption, you will be look down..

By the way, I understand you in one point..track back to your previous post. You are not a big fan of red shirts..let’s make this more advance..you hate them and attempt to discredit them all. If this is what you have to do in order to protect government which you do support, this is kind of success..but only among your friends or those who hate red …I know many people who do not trust this thing…

ทักษิณ

"

[mrparanoid]

red guards with automatic weapons

Yes.. Red guards with several seized army issue automatic weapons with the ammo clips removed. Do you have the link too?

[chantorn]

From an International news reporting agency a direct quote that their correspondents saw "army soldiers carrying and shooting high velocity rifles".

An M16, standard army issue, is a high velocity rifle at 2800 feet/second so they're correct in that every soldier were carrying high velocity rifles.

And a max range over 3500 meters.. the perfect weapon to fire live rounds over peoples heads in an urban environment.. if you are taking orders from Abhisit that is. I also noticed in the French video that the army was using both M16's and TAR-21's to fire live rounds at the redshirts.

Certainly looks like a TAR-21, but I don't think the Thai Army has stared using them yet. I think they still use the SAR-21..

OK. I can accept that M16 & TAR-21 do fire high velocity bullets too (and not just high power sniper rifle).

However, there is no proof that they fire live. They could just be firing rubble directly at the RED, which will not cause death, even at close range.

[chantorn]

red guards with automatic weapons

Yes.. Red guards with several seized army issue automatic weapons with the ammo clips removed. Do you have the link too?

Blame the source.

If it is true that the RED used seized weapons against the army, I will not blame the RED. You have to blame the guy who brought it in, in the 1st place.

For example:

2 drunks were having a fist fight. A decided to break a bottle and use it against B. B being the quicker one (less drunk possibily) twist A's arms so the the sharp broken bottle hurt A. So is B wrong in hurting A? If A did not introduce the weapon none of this could have happen. Just my thought.

[TheOldWolf]

Red leaders have admitted that they had a third part on their side. I think that close that part of the case.

[mrparanoid]

This is a quote from Seh Daeng

"This time we have the black warriors - but only for security, in case the people are shot at."

For those of you who still argue about whether there were people among the red shirts armed or not.

It's from an interview in February.

Interview

Don't confuse the red shirt guards with the few armed "black warriors" and the 3rd unknown party.. The snipers.

The autopsy from the April 11 deaths at Kao Sahn road/Phan Fa says : (and this is from the Nation, btw)

..The independent autopsy panel announced that 9 protesters were killed by high-powered rifles while another protester died of heart failure due to chronic diseases...

..High-powered rifles that can only be used by special gunmen.

..The panel announced that the slain protesters were shot in their head or heart...

These are not stray shots from automatic rifles fired off in desperation by soldiers or demonstrators. It sounds much more like professionals. Professional killers or experienced, well trained army snipers. I don't know which.

[BSJ]

What a joke

Someone using some dubious photos to scam the Red shirts ???

We can see for the first man in the black carry a M16 or Carbine with a Silencer Attached ! That means he's firing Blanks !

If you want to scam someone pls do your homework first

Your off the mark a fair way! I think the picture of the arab guy in the black balaclava maybe a different situation unrelated to Saturdays events. Maybe I am wrong about that, but it seems weird an arab would be involved!

For sniping duties, no-one is going to be using a standard assault rifle.....unless your target is the side of a barn!

[mrparanoid]

OK. I can accept that M16 & TAR-21 do fire high velocity bullets too (and not just high power sniper rifle).

However, there is no proof that they fire live. They could just be firing rubble directly at the RED, which will not cause death, even at close range.

I am sorry, but rubber bullets can kill.

LONDON - Some types of rubber bullets used by police to restrain unruly protesters kill and maim too often to be considered a safe method of crowd control, new research concludes.

Rubber-coated bullets are intended to inflict superficial painful injuries to deter rioters. But a study of their use by Israeli security forces, published this week in The Lancet medical journal, has found police often fire from too close and aim poorly. Even when fired properly, it said, the bullets are so inaccurate that they can cause unintended injuries.

Effect from Israeli rubber bullets. From a study.. Penetrating injuries shown in brackets.

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[jackspratt]

I wonder where fugitives go in Thailand?

I imagine them in some remote hill tribe village setting.

Scary people out there.

What are your motives for introducing a photo that is clearly photoshopped (when compared with the photo in the OP)?

Edited April 13, 2010 by jackspratt

[Neurath]

Red leaders have admitted that they had a third part on their side. I think that close that part of the case.

Jatuporn was often saying and implying that he had someone on the inside. In one case he spoke of Abhisit's 'eyes welling up' in the meeting with Army/security officials after the raid on PTV - something he could only have known from someone present. Thanong speaks about who this insider might have been and to whom information about the disposition of the army on Saturday night was given. One can only speculate about the degree of complicity, or lack of it, that the possession of such information indicates.

[mrparanoid]

Red leaders have admitted that they had a third part on their side. I think that close that part of the case.

They admit that they have a few armed people as backup. Not that they have snipers killing reds, soldiers and reporters. Get your facts straight.

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrparanoid

[whiterussian]

I wonder where fugitives go in Thailand?

I imagine them in some remote hill tribe village setting.

Scary people out there.

What are your motives for introducing a photo that is clearly photoshopped (when compared with the photo in the OP)?

busted.

My point was how can any man in Thailand with a hooter as large as that (poking out of a ski mask!) go into hiding!!!

[Slip]

red guards with automatic weapons

Yes.. Red guards with several seized army issue automatic weapons with the ammo clips removed. Do you have the link too?

Blame the source.

If it is true that the RED used seized weapons against the army, I will not blame the RED. You have to blame the guy who brought it in, in the 1st place.

For example:

2 drunks were having a fist fight. A decided to break a bottle and use it against B. B being the quicker one (less drunk possibily) twist A's arms so the the sharp broken bottle hurt A. So is B wrong in hurting A? If A did not introduce the weapon none of this could have happen. Just my thought.

Fair enough Chantorn, but if one of those drunks wasn't a drunk, but in fact was a soldier of The Kingdom, going about his lawful duty, then it wouldn't really be like your scenario, now would it?

[Neurath]

Red leaders have admitted that they had a third part on their side. I think that close that part of the case.

They admit that they have a few armed people as backup. Not that they have snipers killing reds, soldiers and reporters. Get your facts straight.

[TheOldWolf]

Red leaders have admitted that they had a third part on their side. I think that close that part of the case.

They admit that they have a few armed people as backup. Not that they have snipers killing reds, soldiers and reporters. Get your facts straight.

"The terrorists the government claimed [were there] are soldiers who do not accept the current administration, causing conflict within the army," Mr Natthawut said.

"They used the opportunity on Saturday to create unrest."

He did not identify them, or offer to help with their arrest."

This is from another English newspaper in BKK

Maybe if I put on red glasses I can read this the way you do

[way2muchcoffee]

We must remember that 5 soldiers were killed with several hundred soldiers injured, nearly 100 of them seriously injured. Field officers were targeted for assassination.

The security forces were trained soldiers, wearing full combat gear, armed, traveling in APCs and on foot. This was a planned military operation to disperse a supposedly unarmed and disorganized civilians mob.

This level of injury does not come from a mob of red shirts wielding molotov cocktails, bricks, and water bottles.

These soldiers were taken out with military rifles, hand grenades, and launched grenades, with some casualties from sharpened bamboo sticks, poles, and other blunt objects.

Edited April 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[kissdani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oKenp6ZLw

This video shows black clad gunmen firing at army lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY7OafG9Src

This shows someone among the reds firing at a third floor window, why would he be doing that, I suspect he was returning fire.

Which leads me to believe that the army had snipers positioned in buildings around the area, something which I think this video supports.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

Maybe Satuday was the first skirmish in a civil war

Yes. I noticed that. An alternate interpretation is that they sniper in the building were the Ronin completing their necessary job of creating martyrs on the redshirt side and taking out military personnel.

Of course your guess is also possible.

However, I can see no benefit to either the government or military in taking out redshirts and other civilians. Whereas there are huge benefits to the redshirts, which we are now witnessing.

Of course only the red shirts benefit from it.

Isn't it everybody's dream to be shot dead by a sniper. Just wear a red shirt and walk on the streets of Bangkok and dreams can become true.

[Neurath]

We must remember that 5 soldiers were killed with several hundred soldiers injured, nearly 100 of them very seriously injured. Field officers were targeted for assassination. These were trained soldiers, wearing full combat gear, armed, traveling in APCs and on foot. This level of injury does not come from a mob of red shirts wielding molotov cocktails, bricks, and water bottles. These soldiers were taken out with military rifles and grenades, with some casualties from sharpened bamboo sticks, poles, and other blunt objects.

If you read the conscript's account (found on Bangkok Pundit twitter) it would seem that they weren't 'trained' soldiers but novices. Didn't even know where they were going. The account is un-sourced and claimed to be a transcript from a telephone call from soldier to his parents. No idea how such a smooth transcript was made or obtained. It's more articulate than any phone call I've every made to anyone.

[dobadoy]

Well, I personally find that to be quite a bit bigger stretch, than the theory that those Ronin warriors took out some reds.

If the army really wanted to take power, they could have just done it. No need to get their own asses whooped in public repeatedly.

Also, who has been trying to incite violence for over a month pushing harder and harder? Who has been asking to take one million glass bottles to BKK, in order to fill them up and make the elite disappear from this world? There was an emergency decree out and that means there is a crack down coming! In my opinion the only option left for the Thaksin and his lackeys was blood. Last year Songkran blew up in their face and they learned their lesson. The blood throwing and voodoo rites did not bring the needed results, so they needed a big clash.

I would not be surprised though, if some soldiers would have used live ammo to retaliate after grenades and live rounds were landing amongst them. That would be almost expected I think. However, if the soldiers had gone in unprovoked and fired live ammunition in order to try and disperse the protesters, that would not only have been completely stupid, there would have been hundreds dead!

Anyway, it looks like the red leaders cannot deny any longer that the armed forces were attacked with grenades, rifles and other not so peaceful means. Seems to me there is a bit of backpedaling going on, when you compare to some earlier statements.

Yep, i think you gotta it bang on my friend.

This is no divided nation but thaksin's private war conducted by the richest man in thailand pretending to be standing up for the poor, meanwhile organising and financing a private army. They should all be charged with treason and insurrection.

Big shame the one person who could have held out hope for a brighter, cleaner, more honest politics has been hung on the shame of the corrupt in his own party, the insider traitors passing info to Jatuporn, and the fact that he tried to be fair and reasonable with the reds at every stage - what PM in the history of any country agrees to negotiate live on TV? Thaksin only wanted one thing and he must be laughing with glee that he finally got a bloodbath, exactly what he needed.

I am rather disgusted that there has not been more vocal support for Abhisit and the government. Anupong in particular I think will pay dearly for this; he will not be welcomed by his new task masters (no matter what they tell him now) and never trusted again by the old ones if they somehow do hold on to power.

Hillary Clinton has also made a fool of herself by legitimising Thaksin's private war by treating both sides as equals.

But the most important derliction is that of the majority of Thai people to simply come out and say 'NO' forcefully and uncompromosingly. (This is what - I suggest - Anupong was waiting for a never got). The lack of a big public backlash against all the violent threatening and utterly undemocratic behaviour of the reds over the last month has been met by the public at large with silence. The farangs on this forum seem more animated by it than any Thais I know. Most I know quietly support Abhisit but seem reluctant to get involved in anything to do with this...one can speculate why...but in the end Thailand will get the government and politics they deserve.

[TheOldWolf]

The "terrorists" the prime minister said instigated the bloodshed on Saturday night are malcontent soldiers intent on bringing down the government, UDD leader Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday.

He said the government should find and arrest them.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Monday the government had evidence that "armed terrorists" aiming to bring down his government were among the red-shirt protesters on Saturday.

He said they instigated the bloodshed that resulted in 21 deaths and more than 800 people injured.

Deputy Prime MInister Suthep Thaugsuban also accused unidentified armed men of causing the chaos.

"The terrorists the government claimed [were there] are soldiers who do not accept the current administration, causing conflict within the army," Mr Natthawut said.

"They used the opportunity on Saturday to create unrest."

He did not identify them, or offer to help with their arrest.

Here is the whole article

[chantorn]

We must remember that 5 soldiers were killed with several hundred soldiers injured, nearly 100 of them very seriously injured. Field officers were targeted for assassination. These were trained soldiers, wearing full combat gear, armed, traveling in APCs and on foot. This level of injury does not come from a mob of red shirts wielding molotov cocktails, bricks, and water bottles. These soldiers were taken out with military rifles and grenades, with some casualties from sharpened bamboo sticks, poles, and other blunt objects.

If you read the conscript's account (found on Bangkok Pundit twitter) it would seem that they weren't 'trained' soldiers but novices. Didn't even know where they were going. The account is un-sourced and claimed to be a transcript from a telephone call from soldier to his parents. No idea how such a smooth transcript was made or obtained. It's more articulate than any phone call I've every made to anyone.

http://www.prachatai.net/journal/2010/04/28912

Prachathai run a soldier story. It is in Thai and may be blacked again soon.

I will not 100% believe everthing this web say too; else ICT will not block them from time to time, sometime all the time.

[otherstuff1957]

I'm getting dizzy from all of the spin going on here!

I wonder if the Thai language web boards are having similar discussions.

[tracymeaw]

From an International news reporting agency a direct quote that their correspondents saw "army soldiers carrying and shooting high velocity rifles".

An M16, standard army issue, is a high velocity rifle at 2800 feet/second so they're correct in that every soldier were carrying high velocity rifles.

And a max range over 3500 meters.. the perfect weapon to fire live rounds over peoples heads in an urban environment.. if you are taking orders from Abhisit that is. I also noticed in the French video that the army was using both M16's and TAR-21's to fire live rounds at the redshirts.

Certainly looks like a TAR-21, but I don't think the Thai Army has stared using them yet. I think they still use the SAR-21..

this will help - TAR-21 SAR-21 http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclus...-thailand-crack

according to wiki, the TAR-21 will be the Thai future main infantry rifle. 30,000 ordered. Delivery is ongoing. Sure hope they stop using them on their own people!

[Thai at Heart]

I'll tell who I believe stands to gain is Gneral Anupong, Prem Tinsulanonda and General Prayath.

They stand to gain by taking power away from elected politicians such as Abhisit and Thaksin and putting it in there own hands.

I don't see how the Anupong or Prayuth benefit here. They are both disgraced, similar to Abhisit. Do you think they wanted to turn on Abhisit, kill redshirts, and then make a deal with redshirts who very well may run the next government? Would the redshirts accept this? I don't follow the logic.

I don't think they want to make any deals with redshirts or anyone else for that matter they want power for themselves I would also include the NPP in this group with their idea for a 70 % appointed parliament.

They want to take power from the electorate and put it in the hands of the armath.

Waytoomuch, I think you need to lay off the coffee.

Has a so-called disgraced general ever been court marshalled in this county for their conduct?

When you talk of public disgrace that is limited to politicians, no-one ever gets to disgrace someone like Anupong, Prayuth or Prem.

They shoot you before you open your mouth.

[Neurath]

We must remember that 5 soldiers were killed with several hundred soldiers injured, nearly 100 of them very seriously injured. Field officers were targeted for assassination. These were trained soldiers, wearing full combat gear, armed, traveling in APCs and on foot. This level of injury does not come from a mob of red shirts wielding molotov cocktails, bricks, and water bottles. These soldiers were taken out with military rifles and grenades, with some casualties from sharpened bamboo sticks, poles, and other blunt objects.

If you read the conscript's account (found on Bangkok Pundit twitter) it would seem that they weren't 'trained' soldiers but novices. Didn't even know where they were going. The account is un-sourced and claimed to be a transcript from a telephone call from soldier to his parents. No idea how such a smooth transcript was made or obtained. It's more articulate than any phone call I've every made to anyone.

http://www.prachatai.net/journal/2010/04/28912

Prachathai run a soldier story. It is in Thai and may be blacked again soon.

I will not 100% believe everthing this web say too; else ICT will not block them from time to time, sometime all the time.

Yep, that's the same story.

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/u...ticle6942041.ab

This is the video from the dead japan cameraman. Is it only in my fantasy I see black men in the red crowd about 39-40 seconds inte the clip. Thdey show up in the left for 2 seconds.

So who is at 22 seconds patently behind army lines wearing the indentical outfit to the mystery sniper who appears to come out of a shop front, shout something that that the soldiers listen too and then also into a radio and then the coverage moves elsewhere.

[Neurath]

I'll tell who I believe stands to gain is Gneral Anupong, Prem Tinsulanonda and General Prayath.

They stand to gain by taking power away from elected politicians such as Abhisit and Thaksin and putting it in there own hands.

I don't see how the Anupong or Prayuth benefit here. They are both disgraced, similar to Abhisit. Do you think they wanted to turn on Abhisit, kill redshirts, and then make a deal with redshirts who very well may run the next government? Would the redshirts accept this? I don't follow the logic.

I don't think they want to make any deals with redshirts or anyone else for that matter they want power for themselves I would also include the NPP in this group with their idea for a 70 % appointed parliament.

They want to take power from the electorate and put it in the hands of the armath.

Waytoomuch, I think you need to lay off the coffee.

Has a so-called disgraced general ever been court marshalled in this county for their conduct?

When you talk of public disgrace that is limited to politicians, no-one ever gets to disgrace someone like Anupong, Prayuth or Prem.

They shoot you before you open your mouth.

Sure. In fact has been executed for insurrection/coup attempt. 1977.

[KhaoNiaw]

The Reds seem to be going on the defensive now. And France24 have a few doubts too it seems:

http://www.france24.com/en/20100412-thaila...-protest-troops

[KhaoNiaw]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/u...ticle6942041.ab

This is the video from the dead japan cameraman. Is it only in my fantasy I see black men in the red crowd about 39-40 seconds inte the clip. Thdey show up in the left for 2 seconds.

So who is at 22 seconds patently behind army lines wearing the indentical outfit to the mystery sniper who appears to come out of a shop front, shout something that that the soldiers listen too and then also into a radio and then the coverage moves elsewhere.

If it's at 22 secs, looks like a photographer fleeing the scene. 18 secs looks like a soldier. Can't see the identical outfit etc., etc.