Red Shirts Put Lives On Hold To Camp Out In Bangkok

[tominbkk]

Regarding changing sides you may readt http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Ministe...ll-t355955.html. Thank you Thaivisa!

This guy just earned a huge respect from me.

The tide is turning. I would go until stating that the red / yellow problem would not exist if real freedom of expression and speak would exist in Thailand. Thais living in constant fear of what can not be discussed.

Which was far worse under Thaksin's regime!

[tominbkk]

I listened to them on Monday and never even heard the name all afternoon from the stage, hardly any images of him around either, heard the speeches this afternoon on the radio, same.

He's trying to distance himself from the reds he ordered killed to start the class war.

[jitenshaman]

The Thaksin obsessives who maintain it is essentially orchestrated & all about one man, would presumably anticipate the democracy demonstrators in Bangkok would return home and life would continue as if the last decade had never taken place. No rural discontent, no demands for a more representative democracy, no demands for a better life and a fair share of the national wealth.

The article above shows the reality of the mass of democracy demonstrators in Bangkok - far from benefiting financially by their actions they are losing significant amounts by their standards. They are prepared to do that, and potentially lay down their lives because their cause is just & because the rest of Thai society - who blatantly & unashamedly benefit from the Thai apartheid system - has given them absolutely no other option.

so why doesn't the govt put forth the following: House will be dissolved and elections held within whatever is a reasonable time (3 months, 6 months). International monitors will be invited to check the elections, AND, the most important element, Mr. Thaksin, as a criminal thug and fugitive will be forever banned from being involved in any way shape or form from Thai politics....think the Reds will sign on? Not a bloody chance. Once again, this protest, while perhaps morphing into the possibility of something bigger, is not about democracy, it is about one thug's millions. Have a look at "democracy" movements worldwide. One group that is always at the forefront of such movements are university students, educated, idealist university students. How many uni students do you see at the Rachaprasong junction, .001% Most of the ones i've asked all know the truth about what a sham this is.

[Scott]

Two posts deleted. Please don't discuss moderation or direct people to other sites, especially in the same post.

Please don't post nested quotes with no response.

[Credo]

There are plenty of reds coming out of the closet. I am in the process of moving house, and in both parts of the city in the past several days there have been more and more evidence of reds.

Where I have lived for a long time was a completely 'yellow' area, or so I thought. Now I know, it's not.

[Xangsamhua]

Be wary, red folks, of what might happen following the celebrations. Many ordinary people have had cause to suffer and regret following their "liberation". Seizing power by intimidation in the name of the oppressed does not have a good history where it's occurred. I speak as one who lived through revolutionary excitement in a "liberated" neighboring country only to see it turn to dismay within a few months. And yet everyone believed the old regime had had its day, or at least that's what we all told each other. It's only in recent times, when Western historians have been able to get a fuller picture, that we've realized how everyone was so thoroughly and cynically conned.

The way forward is not red victory, but negotiation and a comprehensive, unrestricted national debate on Thailand's future. And much as I dislike what he tried to do to this country's institutions, I think this means Thaksin has to be included. He's the "rough beast" that can't be ignored.

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

(Yeats: The Second Coming)

[Gary A]

My wife and I happen to live in the heart of red shirt country. This week my yellow shirt wife was surprised by red shirts looking for donations and actively recruiting people to go to Bangkok. It appears that the violence has firmed their resolve rather than the opposite.

An earlier post mentioned the dry season and the crops. Many people harvest two crops depending on whether they have water or not. It appears that most will lose the second crop because there is no more water for irrigation. First crop sugar cane is also suffering and it too will be lost if there is no rain soon. Red shirts from this area have no reason to come home. They will stay in Bangkok until this is resolved.

[Oberkommando]

Which was far worse under Thaksin's regime!

While not condoning Thaksin's censorship of the media, this government is far worse, and media censorship has been on the increase since the coup in 2006, beginning with the junta.

This from today...

MICT warning people not to post divisive comments or pictures from last weekend. Was in the BP so I can't post it here.

[Squigy]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

Yes so right.. what BS these people write in their "stories" because that is what they are. Fact's are too hard to come across and most Thai's are lazy..

[Squigy]

My wife and I happen to live in the heart of red shirt country. This week my yellow shirt wife was surprised by red shirts looking for donations and actively recruiting people to go to Bangkok. It appears that the violence has firmed their resolve rather than the opposite.

An earlier post mentioned the dry season and the crops. Many people harvest two crops depending on whether they have water or not. It appears that most will lose the second crop because there is no more water for irrigation. First crop sugar cane is also suffering and it too will be lost if there is no rain soon. Red shirts from this area have no reason to come home. They will stay in Bangkok until this is resolved.

What BS this is! Thais use Cambodian labour to harvest Sugar Cane , and illegally!!!

[Jingthing]

Be wary, red folks, of what might happen following the celebrations. Many ordinary people have had cause to suffer and regret following their "liberation". Seizing power by intimidation in the name of the oppressed does not have a good history where it's occurred. I speak as one who lived through revolutionary excitement in a "liberated" neighboring country only to see it turn to dismay within a few months. And yet everyone believed the old regime had had its day, or at least that's what we all told each other. It's only in recent times, when Western historians have been able to get a fuller picture, that we've realized how everyone was so thoroughly and cynically conned.

The way forward is not red victory, but negotiation and a comprehensive, unrestricted national debate on Thailand's future. And much as I dislike what he tried to do to this country's institutions, I think this means Thaksin has to be included. He's the "rough beast" that can't be ignored.

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

(Yeats: The Second Coming)

I totally agree with you. And yet the reds will not agree to ANY negotiations. Those are the kind of violent inflexible thugs that some people here want to run Thailand. It is almost shocking. Your personal experience of the misery that happens when such elements take power is reflected by anyone else who bothers to even superficially read history.

[ianf]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Indeed!

Time for revolution is more than ripe. If it could be peaceful like a slow but massive landslide it would be perfect.

One thing is clear: The rotten establishment must and will go. The simple Thais became more educated and are not willing anymore to be the slaves of a bunch of 100 000 people or so of the elite.

More intellectuals and even government officials will change side. //deleted//

And do you think anything will seriously change after an election? In my view things will get worse because Thailand will change to an absolute dictatorship ........ that is the aim of the absent one.

[on-on]

I'm really amazed that all of this hasn't broken down into the kind of racial strife that's been seen in neighboring countries who have all had pretty similar versions of this class war. It never breaks cleanly along any racial lines anywhere, but that's usually not enough to stop people from getting tribal and sorting things out that way. All it generally takes is one charismatic leader who gets the ball rolling by deciding that scapegoating by race is an easy path to political power. Still, whatever the reason, I'm glad it hasn't.

[Gary A]

My wife and I happen to live in the heart of red shirt country. This week my yellow shirt wife was surprised by red shirts looking for donations and actively recruiting people to go to Bangkok. It appears that the violence has firmed their resolve rather than the opposite.

An earlier post mentioned the dry season and the crops. Many people harvest two crops depending on whether they have water or not. It appears that most will lose the second crop because there is no more water for irrigation. First crop sugar cane is also suffering and it too will be lost if there is no rain soon. Red shirts from this area have no reason to come home. They will stay in Bangkok until this is resolved.

What BS this is! Thais use Cambodian labour to harvest Sugar Cane , and illegally!!!

What are you talking about? What do Cambodian workers have to do with a drought? You should learn to read before posting.

[FreedomDude]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

Indeed!

Time for revolution is more than ripe. If it could be peaceful like a slow but massive landslide it would be perfect.

One thing is clear: The rotten establishment must and will go. The simple Thais became more educated and are not willing anymore to be the slaves of a bunch of 100 000 people or so of the elite.

More intellectuals and even government officials will change side. //deleted//

And do you think anything will seriously change after an election? In my view things will get worse because Thailand will change to an absolute dictatorship ........ that is the aim of the absent one.

Well, no, not a dictatoship...you see, the Redshirts WANT elections, their opponents do not. Who's the dictator again?

[wallhigh]

excellent - less tuk-tuk drivers and other low life's around.

[tigermonkey]

The Thaksin obsessives who maintain it is essentially orchestrated & all about one man, would presumably anticipate the democracy demonstrators in Bangkok would return home and life would continue as if the last decade had never taken place. No rural discontent, no demands for a more representative democracy, no demands for a better life and a fair share of the national wealth.

The article above shows the reality of the mass of democracy demonstrators in Bangkok - far from benefiting financially by their actions they are losing significant amounts by their standards. They are prepared to do that, and potentially lay down their lives because their cause is just & because the rest of Thai society - who blatantly & unashamedly benefit from the Thai apartheid system - has given them absolutely no other option.

so why doesn't the govt put forth the following: House will be dissolved and elections held within whatever is a reasonable time (3 months, 6 months). International monitors will be invited to check the elections, AND, the most important element, Mr. Thaksin, as a criminal thug and fugitive will be forever banned from being involved in any way shape or form from Thai politics....think the Reds will sign on? Not a bloody chance. Once again, this protest, while perhaps morphing into the possibility of something bigger, is not about democracy, it is about one thug's millions. Have a look at "democracy" movements worldwide. One group that is always at the forefront of such movements are university students, educated, idealist university students. How many uni students do you see at the Rachaprasong junction, .001% Most of the ones i've asked all know the truth about what a sham this is.

This is pure elitist nonsense. Perhaps the greatest struggle for democracy recently was the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa -- led by " university students, educated, idealist university students " -- I don't think so !

Most of the poor in Thailand have absolutely no chance of a university education -- the same as the blacks in South Africa -- you don't need a university education to have a brain and use it -- you do however, need a university education to be elitist.

[davelec]

I may be wrong but no one is planting or harvesting rice in issan at the moment and it is dry season I thought that planting was done between june and july and harvest between october and december ?

You are quite right, have just left after one week in centre of Issan. Fields are dry, nothing to harvest, most houses making mats.

Issan is a big place I was there two weeks ago and saw rice that had just been harvested, why should the guy in the OP be making it up?

[britmaveric]

Got to love red supporters passion and commitment! Democracy at its finest!!

[wallhigh]

Got to love red supporters passion and commitment! Democracy at its finest!!

i would call it stupidity...

[Slip]

^^An aggressive mob, backed up by murderous agent provocateurs, is hardly democratic by any definition.

You should maybe say 'revolution at its finest'

[sealy]

Far more impressive, noble and respectable than the yellow shirts who are rich and from next door.

Anyway, more and more Bangkokians become Reds in the sois (at least in my Chatuchak area).

I live in the Chatuchak area too. I'd back those comments up.

i live near patpong and it has been red mostly these days.....

[britmaveric]

^Red movement is growing - something all people of bangkok can be proud of.

[wallhigh]

you don't need a university education to have a brain and use it -- you do however, need a university education to be elitist.

a university education at least points you in the right direction of how the brain

should be used, something completely lacking in the current protesters...

like it was pointed out, how many educated university students are protesting?

ZERO

and of course you need a uni education to have a decent well paid career and

be a benefit to society, not a burden.... need i say more

Edited April 14, 2010 by wallhigh

[yoshiwara]

^Red movement is growing - something all people of bangkok can be proud of.

The red apologists flutter between pushing out the story that the locals are on their side and the intention to trash the town.

Maybe its one day on and one day off.

[Xangsamhua]

Got to love red supporters passion and commitment! Democracy at its finest!!

Together with a good dollop of information management, groupthink and well organized marshalling, I suspect.

I've seen mobs before and been in them. They're OK as a form of protest and demonstration and a vehicle for the leaders to strut their stuff, but they're a primitive form of democracy at best and are usually just a blunt instrument for Elmer Gantry-type demagogues to beat their enemies with. Manipulation at its best.

[kissdani]

Which was far worse under Thaksin's regime!

While not condoning Thaksin's censorship of the media, this government is far worse, and media censorship has been on the increase since the coup in 2006, beginning with the junta.

This from today...

MICT warning people not to post divisive comments or pictures from last weekend. Was in the BP so I can't post it here.

MICT forbids posting of pictures and divisive comments about 10 April clashes

Wed, 14/04/2010 - 11:24

The Ministry of Information and Communications Technology has instructed its staff to monitor the posting of pictures which show violence in the clashes on Saturday. People are warned not to post comments divisive to society.

According to www.dailyworldtoday.com on 12 April, Thaneerat Siripachana, Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Information and Communications Technology, said that on grounds of national security, the ministry would seek cooperation from webmasters of domestic websites to prevent the dissemination of such pictures. In the case of websites located abroad such as YouTube, the Ministry will work with the Foreign Ministry to seek cooperation from host countries.

He warned that the people should not post divisive comments, as they would violate the Emergency Decree and the 2007 Computer Crimes Act.

http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/1737

[Mosha]

Well someone should try to point out to them a world wide problem The top 20% have 80% of the wealth everywhere on the planet, and that will never ever change. So they had better get used to it.

[sealy]

Good post about the 100,000 thais at the top of the pile having all the spoils. Only have to watch TV to see it in action.

Also, this debunks that insulting Falang proverb about Thailand "money number one".

It will soon be over. The Army has changed sides, (many it appears during the push against the reds), the EC has changed sides, the opposition coalition are changing sides, the population are definatly more vocally red this time. Many felt pinned down during the Yellow tyranny by charges of not loving the one that they all do love.

Not this time, those too shy to stand up against the PAD are now there in full force.

I hope the Reds don't blow this chance. There is chance now to bring the country forward from its feudal system and for the population to through off the oppressors. Just think how hard it is going to be now for the Police and Army mafia to collect their tea money from businesses! Or is it the businesses that are part of the problem by roling over and paying it? More spine needed at the middle and top of society me thinks!

I'm not holding my breath, but there is a chance now.... just a chance.

Do you seriously think that a change to the reds will stop (or even reduce) the corruption in the police force? Do you think that is even remotely possible?

Corruption is a huge problem in Thailand, and the red leaders (particularly Dear Leader) are a huge part of that. The rich business people in the N/NE are also up to their necks in it. If the protestors are protesting against corruption they should be looking in their own backyards first.

I'm not saying the Dems or any other politician are not corrupt, but to suggest that the reds will reduce corruption is laughable.

can a leopard change it's spots?

therefore, can any colour change make a difference to corruption.....

corrupton is worlwide phenomenon, it is a matter of degree from where one hails from....for the majority who choose to be thailanad instead of back home, it is the thai degree that they find welcoming......because it allows them to whine - yes , whine, not wine - and dine about it and around it....

elsewhere outside thailand, it will be too expensive to do so......

[chadintheusa]

Well someone should try to point out to them a world wide problem The top 20% have 80% of the wealth everywhere on the planet, and that will never ever change. So they had better get used to it.

The top 1%, or less, of the Red shirt group have 99% of their collective wealth.