Dad Can't Speak Thai, The Kids Can't Speak English

[Livinginexile]

I met an Englishman this Songkran holiday, down in Bangkok for a few days with his wife and kids.

He's got 3 kids (the eldest his wife's son from a previous marrage) and not one of them could speak a word of English.

Not only that, he could not speak a word of Thai except for a few words he learned in bars (look lorn, bag wan, sewer'a etc).

They all communicated through his wife! "Darling tell 'em not to shoot the falangs in the head with the water pistols will ya".

He commented how well my son could speak English and I responded by telling him it was my duty as a father to make sure his first language is English and that we would be going home when his high school education starts.

He got quite agressive! allmost shouting about how Thailand was his home now and that he would never return to England.

I never asked him about his future plans! he asked me a question and I responded!

Me me me...not a word about his children who are 12, 8 & 6.

I was actually quite shocked as I view this as child neglect!

What do others think?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Livinginexile

[neverdie]

I think it takes all types.

I don't understand how he communicates EVERYTHING through his wife. Don't get me wrong, I will be the first to admit that when I get lost in a conversation or not exactly sure how to respond (depending on the situation) I ask grumpy to help me out.....but running the whole shabang thru the misses would drive not only me mad, but her even madder.

He has no personal communications with his own children, very sad.

[onnut]

That sounds a little shity for the kids. My little boy speaks Thai or is starting to and is also learning English. His thai is stronger as he is around Thais all day and I only get to see him for a few hours when I'm not working. But I will be putting him through a school that teaches English as a first language once he is old enough.

I feel sorry for this guy who cannot communicate with his kids. I couldn't I

agine that.

[Boo]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

[neverdie]

& of course boo, everyone knows that it would be benificial to the children, if in the future they could speak english, as well as thai.

Im looking at the employment prospects aspect.

[canuckamuck]

My wife are now the guardians of a boy who is almost 7. We have only had him since last summer. His mother died and his dad is not interested. I speak Thai, but I have a long ways to go. All day long there are things I want to say to him, explain, teach, I really want to be a real dad. But I continually find there are words missing and there are so many moments that pass where I don't say a thing. My wife is good and she translates a lot for me, but I desperately want to improve my Thai and I can't think of a greater motivation to do so. I am working on it all the time.

But in the meantime I am really impressed with the English he has picked up and there times now when we can communicate in English, and that is very encouraging. I am glad he is a sharp kid, it makes this whole thing a lot easier.

I can' imagine what would be going through the mind of the guy mentioned in the OP. I don't envy him one bit, he must feel like a visitor in his own home.

[MB1]

I'll agree it is a lazy nature Boo from the father and IMO also from the mother, what kind of mother or father wouldnt want their children to be able to communicate personally with the father, if I was a father to the kids I'd want to be able to communicate on a personal level with them in a language they can understand, in this case either English or Thai but I'd never expect or want to communicate soley though the mother.

Imo a child who is able to communicate with his father on a personal level without someone translating will have a far better relationship with the father, maybe the father and the mother in this OP just don't give a toss...Sad IMO.

And yes Neverdie, it would be of a benifit to the children if they could speak English and Thai.

Edited April 14, 2010 by MB1

[anon345535]

wow, that is really quite bad. in fact i would go as far as to say the man is a complete ***t!

i assuming he lives with them all full time? my daughter is approaching 3 and will only ever speak to me in english, she always speak to her mum in thai. her thai is better than her english but that's to be expected considering where we live. he obviously pays his children no attention whatsoever....

[somtampet]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

WOW BOO,

Now thats a sweeping statement,maybe its as simple as he cant grasp the thai language due to his age.You have based that statement on no fact whatsoever.

[MB1]

Seen it quite a lot too. Is a shame & shows a lazy nature imo. Maybe he wasn't interested in having the kids & only had them under pressure from his wife & therefore couldn't give a monkies about talking to them or the benefits of having english skills from a native speaker? This sounds a bit harsh but tbh I've see what appears to be this exact attitude from quite a few foreign men l(living in Thailand full time) over the years. Either got trapped by pregnancy or had kids to keep the wife happy & have zero involvement in their upbringing beyond living in the same house as them. Often it seems (to me) that they don't want anything to interfere with their self involved life in Thailand & the kids are the pure domain of the mother & her family.

Sad for the kids whatever the reason.

WOW BOO,

Now thats a sweeping statement,maybe its as simple as he cant grasp the thai language due to his age.You have based that statement on no fact whatsoever.

But he can speak English, okay maybe he can't grasp Thai but he still IMO has a responsibility to communicate with "HIS" kids on a personal level and any father who wouldnt want or try to do this IMO is a bad father.

Edited April 14, 2010 by MB1

[britmaveric]

^very least he should be teaching the kiddies english, even if he doesnt know thai. Very easy for little ones to pick up languages at an early age. Pretty sad plight.

[Boo]

I never mentioned him talking thai, he is English, why would he communicate with his kids in Thai when he can't even talk to them in English. Hardly a sweeping statement.

[wolf5370]

I have two girls here - 8 and 10 - English is their first language. The Mrs. and I both used English only at home (except the odd argument of course) until just recently - in many ways I guess I had the opposite problem that their English is far superior to their Thai, but now they are at a bi-lingual school, they are catching up.

They still speak only English with me and their (Thai) mum, as this is what they are used too. We wanted English to be their primary and first language, but I do have regrets that we allowed this to be at the cost of their Thai. The thought was that if we speak both, that their mum (primary carer pre-school) would tend to only use Thai (its hard not too) and they would not have English as primary. Its a difficult peg to square. Though it also had the benefit of making my wife's English fluent over the years too. Even our Thai friends tend to speak English with the kids too as they know they will understand them then. Only Grandparent speak to them in Thai as they have no English.

Having said that, I can not understand the guy from the Op either - though I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact. If I really wanted my kids to have Thai as a primary language, then I would also have learned Thai (which I did anyway - but another story) so I could communicate with them. Hearing parents of deaf children learn sign language, not because they have to or need to, but because they want to communicate with their kids and their kids' friends etc. The more I think about it, the more I feel my supposition is correct.

[billythefish]

My wife are now the guardians of a boy who is almost 7. We have only had him since last summer. His mother died and his dad is not interested. I speak Thai, but I have a long ways to go. All day long there are things I want to say to him, explain, teach, I really want to be a real dad. But I continually find there are words missing and there are so many moments that pass where I don't say a thing. My wife is good and she translates a lot for me, but I desperately want to improve my Thai and I can't think of a greater motivation to do so. I am working on it all the time.

But in the meantime I am really impressed with the English he has picked up and there times now when we can communicate in English, and that is very encouraging. I am glad he is a sharp kid, it makes this whole thing a lot easier.

I can' imagine what would be going through the mind of the guy mentioned in the OP. I don't envy him one bit, he must feel like a visitor in his own home.

I am impressed with your commitment, good on you, you obviously love your child.

But I would not jump to conclusions, as regards the other guy, there are a lot of people that spend maybe one month a year here, so they are not really in a position to teach the kids English.

I admire your way of thinking, I am here 24/7, and even then it is difficult to teach your kids to be fluent in English, as you are basically the only one speaking it.

It is however, great to see how kids are like sponges at learning!

I have been here more than ten years and my Thai is shit, and that is from listening to it 24/7, but my sons English is not bad, and he only gets it from me and a few hours at school.

I don't think we should judge too much on this, as we do not know the entire circumstances.

[Boo]

And please make sure you notice the use of "imo" it means "in my opinion" " or the phrase "I've see what appears to be this exact attitude" and the use of "Often it seems (to me)"

All of these statements clarify that these are my personal observations. That is the nature of the web forum & these are my opinions of cases like this I have seen

[somtampet]

My wife are now the guardians of a boy who is almost 7. We have only had him since last summer. His mother died and his dad is not interested. I speak Thai, but I have a long ways to go. All day long there are things I want to say to him, explain, teach, I really want to be a real dad. But I continually find there are words missing and there are so many moments that pass where I don't say a thing. My wife is good and she translates a lot for me, but I desperately want to improve my Thai and I can't think of a greater motivation to do so. I am working on it all the time.

But in the meantime I am really impressed with the English he has picked up and there times now when we can communicate in English, and that is very encouraging. I am glad he is a sharp kid, it makes this whole thing a lot easier.

I can' imagine what would be going through the mind of the guy mentioned in the OP. I don't envy him one bit, he must feel like a visitor in his own home.

I am impressed with your commitment, good on you, you obviously love your child.

But I would not jump to conclusions, as regards the other guy, there are a lot of people that spend maybe one month a year here, so they are not really in a position to teach the kids English.

I admire your way of thinking, I am here 24/7, and even then it is difficult to teach your kids to be fluent in English, as you are basically the only one speaking it.

It is however, great to see how kids are like sponges at learning!

I have been here more than ten years and my Thai is shit, and that is from listening to it 24/7, but my sons English is not bad, and he only gets it from me and a few hours at school.

I don't think we should judge too much on this, as we do not know the entire circumstances.

good post and good sense,unlike some posts.

I live here and speak a little thai but find it very difficult to learn.My stepson is 9 now and been to a small private school in Pattaya from the age of 3.5.The first stage was for him to learn,read and write thai correctly,first and foremost as he is thai.Then he started lessons in englsih but only 1 hour a day,now he can speak better english than my thai,and he can read and write too.Now he is learnign chinese,which i find strange because he isnt fluent in english.Maybe his chinese will be perfect,so his long term future is secure,except he has dark skin,now thats a big problem for thai and farang alike,if he decided to work in Bangkok.

Edited April 14, 2010 by somtampet

[Geekfreaklover]

It seems that in this case the wife/mother can speak both Thai and English, therefore it would make sense that the language spoken at home should be English. Some posters are pointing the finger at the father for not speaking Thai, however I would suggest that the mother is at best being somewhat lazy and at worst using kids as a kind of control mechanism within the family dynamics by excluding the father in conversations. Also, it's much easier for youngsters to pick up a new language that will benefit them in the future.

In ideal world the whole family would be bilingual.

[WOOHOO]

I feel sorry for this guy who cannot communicate with his kids. I couldn't I

agine that.

I find it very worrying that at least two people have expressed concerns for the man!! That his life will be harder as a result of his neglect.

If he has had two of those three children, since they were born, and they speak no English what so ever, the bloke needs shooting, simple as that.

[somtampet]

And please make sure you notice the use of "imo" it means "in my opinion" " or the phrase "I've see what appears to be this exact attitude" and the use of "Often it seems (to me)"

All of these statements clarify that these are my personal observations. That is the nature of the web forum & these are my opinions of cases like this I have seen

now you said please i will notice imo,in fact i learnt something there lol.Didnt learn much about the guy though.

[WOOHOO]

In ideal world the whole family would be bilingual.

I don't think that it needs to be an ideal world, just a normal one!

If two people from different countries have a child, I can't think of any circumstances where that child shouldn't end up being fluent in both languages. As someone said toddlers are like sponges, they are more than capable of being bi-lingual without lazy shits for parents.

[Livinginexile]

I have two girls here - 8 and 10 - English is their first language. The Mrs. and I both used English only at home (except the odd argument of course) until just recently - in many ways I guess I had the opposite problem that their English is far superior to their Thai, but now they are at a bi-lingual school, they are catching up.

They still speak only English with me and their (Thai) mum, as this is what they are used too. We wanted English to be their primary and first language, but I do have regrets that we allowed this to be at the cost of their Thai. The thought was that if we speak both, that their mum (primary carer pre-school) would tend to only use Thai (its hard not too) and they would not have English as primary. Its a difficult peg to square. Though it also had the benefit of making my wife's English fluent over the years too. Even our Thai friends tend to speak English with the kids too as they know they will understand them then. Only Grandparent speak to them in Thai as they have no English.

Having said that, I can not understand the guy from the Op either - though I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact. If I really wanted my kids to have Thai as a primary language, then I would also have learned Thai (which I did anyway - but another story) so I could communicate with them. Hearing parents of deaf children learn sign language, not because they have to or need to, but because they want to communicate with their kids and their kids' friends etc. The more I think about it, the more I feel my supposition is correct.

My son is 4 and English is his first language too.

My wife and I only speak English to him and his Grandparents and friends speak to him in Thai.

Like your girls he attends a bi-lingual school and his Thai is fast caticng up.

As for the guy in the OP, the two youngest are his own children and he has lived with his kids all their life!

My son was playing and talking to them in English and he had to switch to Thai to communicate with them.

He just didn't seem to care too much about them. The whole time I was there he never interacted at all with them. It was all about the mother, she did everything.

She told my wife they have serious money problems and I couldn't help but wonder what the hel_l he does all day long in the village. Surely he had the time to teach them English! How busy can it be in a village.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Livinginexile

[WOOHOO]

My wife are now the guardians of a boy who is almost 7. We have only had him since last summer. His mother died and his dad is not interested. I speak Thai, but I have a long ways to go. All day long there are things I want to say to him, explain, teach, I really want to be a real dad. But I continually find there are words missing and there are so many moments that pass where I don't say a thing. My wife is good and she translates a lot for me, but I desperately want to improve my Thai and I can't think of a greater motivation to do so. I am working on it all the time.

But in the meantime I am really impressed with the English he has picked up and there times now when we can communicate in English, and that is very encouraging. I am glad he is a sharp kid, it makes this whole thing a lot easier.

I can' imagine what would be going through the mind of the guy mentioned in the OP. I don't envy him one bit, he must feel like a visitor in his own home.

If this man has this attitude to a kid that's not his and has only parented for a short while, then doesn't that highlight what a low life, scus bucket, the man being described in the OP is, to take no interest in his own childrens education. Still can't believe some people are defending him!

Fair play to you mate. I'm sure with that attitude you will both be fluent in both languages in no time, nice one.

[F1fanatic]

In ideal world the whole family would be bilingual.

I don't think that it needs to be an ideal world, just a normal one!

If two people from different countries have a child, I can't think of any circumstances where that child shouldn't end up being fluent in both languages. As someone said toddlers are like sponges, they are more than capable of being bi-lingual without lazy shits for parents.

Not always true - I speak from personal experience.

Personally, I suspect Wolf5371 is probably right - "I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact."

Nothing else makes any sense. He obviously has some sort of chip on his shoulder.

[Boo]

My great aunt married an Italian guy 50 years ago, he has lived in UK for all of those years but due to owning & running his own italian restaurant & employing only other italians still sounds like he just stepped off the boat.

They had 3 kids who speak not one word of Italian, who now as adults dislike their dad as he was just a sullen, silent presence in the house for their whole lives.

When I see the relationship my son has with my husband & who is now starting to get to know & learn to communicate with his family I see it as my job to encourage & help my son learn more thai than he knows now (we was born & lived for the first 2.5 years in UK).

Happily after 5 months bak in Thailand he has learned the basics but we all make an effort to talk thai to him all day. English is still his primary & probably always will be as I think in most "traditional" family set ups the mother is usually the primary carer & therefore communicates more one to one with the kids in their native tongue but both parents should take the time to focus on 2nd languages with their kids too.

[alfieconn]

I have two girls here - 8 and 10 - English is their first language. The Mrs. and I both used English only at home (except the odd argument of course) until just recently - in many ways I guess I had the opposite problem that their English is far superior to their Thai, but now they are at a bi-lingual school, they are catching up.

They still speak only English with me and their (Thai) mum, as this is what they are used too. We wanted English to be their primary and first language, but I do have regrets that we allowed this to be at the cost of their Thai. The thought was that if we speak both, that their mum (primary carer pre-school) would tend to only use Thai (its hard not too) and they would not have English as primary. Its a difficult peg to square. Though it also had the benefit of making my wife's English fluent over the years too. Even our Thai friends tend to speak English with the kids too as they know they will understand them then. Only Grandparent speak to them in Thai as they have no English.

Having said that, I can not understand the guy from the Op either - though I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact. If I really wanted my kids to have Thai as a primary language, then I would also have learned Thai (which I did anyway - but another story) so I could communicate with them. Hearing parents of deaf children learn sign language, not because they have to or need to, but because they want to communicate with their kids and their kids' friends etc. The more I think about it, the more I feel my supposition is correct.

I think it depends entirely on where you see them living and working after they have left school in Thailand.

If they are going onto further education at a university in England or the States or working abroad then English must be there primary language, if they going to stay in Thailand then Thai must be there primary language as it is the language of this country.

A lot of foreigners seem obsessed with there children being fluent in English at the expense of there Thai without having any plans for there future.

Edited April 14, 2010 by alfieconn

[Livinginexile]

I have two girls here - 8 and 10 - English is their first language. The Mrs. and I both used English only at home (except the odd argument of course) until just recently - in many ways I guess I had the opposite problem that their English is far superior to their Thai, but now they are at a bi-lingual school, they are catching up.

They still speak only English with me and their (Thai) mum, as this is what they are used too. We wanted English to be their primary and first language, but I do have regrets that we allowed this to be at the cost of their Thai. The thought was that if we speak both, that their mum (primary carer pre-school) would tend to only use Thai (its hard not too) and they would not have English as primary. Its a difficult peg to square. Though it also had the benefit of making my wife's English fluent over the years too. Even our Thai friends tend to speak English with the kids too as they know they will understand them then. Only Grandparent speak to them in Thai as they have no English.

Having said that, I can not understand the guy from the Op either - though I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact. If I really wanted my kids to have Thai as a primary language, then I would also have learned Thai (which I did anyway - but another story) so I could communicate with them. Hearing parents of deaf children learn sign language, not because they have to or need to, but because they want to communicate with their kids and their kids' friends etc. The more I think about it, the more I feel my supposition is correct.

I think it depends entirely on where you see them living and working after they have left school in Thailand.

If they are going onto further education at a university in England or the States or working abroad then English must be there primary language, if they going to stay in Thailand then Thai must be there primary language as it is the language of this country.

A lot of foreigners seem obsessed with there children being fluent in English at the expense of there Thai without having any plans for there future.

Alfie, surely giving your children the best start in life whether they live in Thailand or abroad is the number one priority for a parent!

and surely out of pure choice for the children when they grow up then they absolutely need to speak, read and write English fluently!

I think it's a lazy mans way out to say something like "Oh they live in Thailand so why should they learn English"?

Where I work, English speaking professionals get paid far more than non English speakers.

[WOOHOO]

Not always true - I speak from personal experience.

Personally, I suspect Wolf5371 is probably right - "I might suggest that he is new on the scene (maybe none of the kids are from his loins) and it is an excuse to cover this fact."

Nothing else makes any sense. He obviously has some sort of chip on his shoulder.

If that was the case, which I would say is not particularly likely. He didn't seem the shy retiring type, from the OP's description, so I would guess he would have told the truth, but that wouldn't be a good enough excuse anyway. If you are in that position you do what's right regardless. If you're not prepared to do that, you don't get yourself in that position in the first place.

[KarenBravo]

Whether you consider the man right, or wrong, he reacted in the same way most of us would if we were given a self-righteous lecture by a perfect stranger.

It would have been better if the OP had just kept his mouth shut.

Edited April 14, 2010 by KarenBravo

[a2396]

Nothing new. He's lucky his wife can speak English. Why someone would marry a woman here with three kids is beyond me.

[jubby]

I can sort of understand the situation but cannot understand the fathers lack of concern about it.

In the UK I was concerned about my three daughters total lack of thai language . My wifes English language skills improved rapidly until the stage where she seemed to think in english and she always spoke english to the Kids.

Now 2 years in a Thai school and they are fluent in Thai. Now I'm concerned about there lack of english language skills. OK, the School teaches English, They brought home english homework most nights so I wasn't overly concerned at first. We also seemed to speak mostly english at home . I've never been good with languages myself but my Thai is improving slowly. The Kids now seem to think in Thai and speak very little english. When I ask the youngest a question she does struggle quite often. We do try to speak english at home still but thai seems to come more naturally to them.

you have to understand they are bombarded with thai most of the day; come home from school and are reluctant to speak much English to me as they just want to get out to play after doing there Homework ofcourse . Its Quite a Dilemma .