World Class Players & The Current Top 4 ( Maybe Except Chelsea )

[MSingh]

I've been wondering about it all Season after having arguement upon arguement ( not on here ) with people that Mna United simply won't have a more sucessful Season than last Year due to replacing Ronaldo & Tevez with Valencia & Owen..

But this isn't about Man United..

What my arguement was getting at was that i think that the Top 4 ( & i'll include liverpool in that as i think it maybe most relevent to them ) in my opinion are far too reliant on the World Class Players..

Of course it's easy to say that take a WC Player out of any Team & it'd be weakened but does anyone think that the are too reliant on these Players IE Torres for Liverpool & Arsenal for Fabregas ??

I think we can all agree that Fabregas & Torres are WC, Ronaldo too..

Chelsea seem to have a better depth of Squad for sure & don't really miss Drogba if he isn't playing, as Anelka steps in, & it's no coincidence that they are odds on to do the domestic double.

Look at Arsenal last nigth without Fabregas, they were crap, look at them any time without him & they're crap, look at Liverpool without Torres, they're average at best & that's being complimentary..

Arsenal bring in Diaby/Denilson who are decent Players in tehir own right but nowhere near WC at the moment & against a T*ttenham side with argubley the best SQUAD in the League, they looked poor.

Liverpool bring in Ngog, i don't need to say any more.

Do Clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool & Manchester United rely FAR too much on their Stars & should they, like the T*ttenham's & Mna City's of this World do ( Chelsea even maybe too ), should they have focussed more in building up their Squad's instead of replying on certain individuals who, when not fit, mean that their Team is just average ??

I may not have worded this as well as i should have done but i just feel that Clubs i have mentioned have relied too much on certain Players when they should have spent more time concentrating on their Squad, which without a decent one of them, won't get you very far at all & look no further at Liverpool this Season ( even a UEFA Cup success in my opinion would be irrelevent to the Club after failure in qualifying for the CL ) for proof of that.

Thsi is not a dig at Liverpool or any Club in particular, i'm just using them as example to the point i'm trying to make & just wondered if anyone agree's ??

[carmine]

Your point may well be better proven next season but there's still validity to it now. No doubt Liverpool are hugely reliant on Torres with little first rate back up. Man Utd are i believe far more reliant on Rooney than most of us realised. With no axe to grind i think both these two might be in for a rough ride next season.I certainly have'nt seen Utd looking vulnerable at this stage of the season before. Normally they come on strong, now they are looking old and without depth.

Chelsea have a strong squad alround but maybe getting on a bit. They are not reliant on one player. I believe there best player to be Essien by quite a distance, and his absence for a chunk of last season was probably the distane between them and Utd. They'll be strong again with good alround depth.

Sadly Arsenal are gaining experience every match and will be very good again. I don't think they are completely reliable on Fabregas although any side misses a world class player. RVP back again, Ashavin top quality, <deleted> keepers but thats not hard to sort out.

City and Tottenham will be interesting next season because as you say, their squads are strong with some decent additions coming in. The squads ill also have time to bed in. But who's to say they will both hav their current managers.

Just my thoughts on a very hot afternoon.

[alfieconn]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

[alfieconn]

I see 3 London boys are the only ones to have contributed to this topic so far, is this because :

A. They are the only ones to have a brain on the the football topic and thus can think logicaly.

B. They have nothing else better to do than to ramble on on here.

[carmine]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Errhh Alfie, Essien not world class? I beg to differ my friend. ( I still laugh about the man marking job he did on Gerrard, i think in a CL tie In hindsight there was little point in Gerard even coming on the pitch. Mindyou, SG won't have that problem next season will he )

[Seapok]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Errhh Alfie, Essien not world class? I beg to differ my friend. ( I still laugh about the man marking job he did on Gerrard, i think in a CL tie In hindsight there was little point in Gerard even coming on the pitch. Mindyou, SG won't have that problem next season will he )

Totally agree with you Carmine......the man is a machine and Chelsea have missed him very much, he may not be the most flamboyant of players but he is definitely world class!

[alfieconn]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Errhh Alfie, Essien not world class? I beg to differ my friend. ( I still laugh about the man marking job he did on Gerrard, i think in a CL tie In hindsight there was little point in Gerard even coming on the pitch. Mindyou, SG won't have that problem next season will he )

Totally agree with you Carmine......the man is a machine and Chelsea have missed him very much, he may not be the most flamboyant of players but he is definitely world class!

While i'm not doubting that he is a very good player, do you think he would be in the top 6 midfield players in the world ?

[suiging]

Jody Craddock would be !!!!!

[MSingh]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Errhh Alfie, Essien not world class? I beg to differ my friend. ( I still laugh about the man marking job he did on Gerrard, i think in a CL tie In hindsight there was little point in Gerard even coming on the pitch. Mindyou, SG won't have that problem next season will he )

Totally agree with you Carmine......the man is a machine and Chelsea have missed him very much, he may not be the most flamboyant of players but he is definitely world class!

While i'm not doubting that he is a very good player, do you think he would be in the top 6 midfield players in the world ?

Of course he isn't, Essien is a very, very good Player, a Machine even, but he isn't World Class...

& it highlights my point anyway regarding Chelsea, they have missed him for big parts of this Season yet are still on for the double..

Edit : The term " World Class " gets used far too easily for my liking, of course seapok's gonna say he's World Class, anything <deleted> Blue is World Class in his eyes including JT's Holiday Thong probably..

Edited April 15, 2010 by MSingh

[Devil]

Would have to agree with Sing the big clubs have become reliant on the Star player to get them out of trouble and you will even see the shape of teams adjusted to accommodate... The way Liverpool are Set up most times when Torres is available to play up top alone and I remember how Manu used to set out when Ronaldo was playing.

Certainly the lesser sides (teams without the big name players) are better set up than days gone by - they can make the game much more tight when they play away now and make it very hard for teams to break them down. Coaching has changed somewhat in the way teams set up now looking for the draw at all costs. Maybe this is the main reason. Also getting 3 points now is so crucial from the start to the end of the season and to many draws will cost you the season.

I mean look at Fulham as an example, that is one very well organized unit now without a major Star in the team (no offense) so you need a someone of that World Class quality or skill to change the game.

[smokie36]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Chelsea will win the premiership this season due to both Arsenal and Man U having insufficient strikers to score goals when it matters. In Man U's case obviously Owen was a crap signing and its a mystery to me why Arsenal have failed to buy anyone else.

Mun U will struggle even more next year due to having less class in their midfield while (unfortunately) Arsenal should be stronger particularly if they buy another frontman.

Liverpool's problem isn't their two world class players but the dross they are surrounded with. Very average and two men can't maintain a top four position any more I'm afraid.

Man City will no doubt continue to improve and so should we with hopefully some astute buys in the summer as already mentioned we have a squad full of very good players albeit we could use a touch more class maybe in our finishing but Modric on his day is up there with most.

[MSingh]

I think in any walk of life that a company will rely on an employee if he is exceptional at his job and that football is no different.

A bank will miss a trader who make millions of dollars more than anyone else.

A hospital will miss a surgeon who can carry out open heart surgery.

A sheep shearing factory would miss there best sheep shearer if he was shearing twice as many sheep as anybody else.

A beer bar owner would miss his best bird (IE the one who takes the most bar fines) if she was too do the off (good example ah ).

Obviously the greater talant that the employee is then the more he is going to be missed as in the case of Ronaldo, Fabregas,Torres and Rooney.

I happen to think that Spurs have missed Lennon and Chelsea have missed Essian but due to these 2 not being quite world class then there absense is not so noticeable.

I'm sure Barcelona would miss Messi if he was out for any length of time and look at the depth of there squad.

Chelsea will win the premiership this season due to both Arsenal and Man U having insufficient strikers to score goals when it matters. In Man U's case obviously Owen was a crap signing and its a mystery to me why Arsenal have failed to buy anyone else.

Mun U will struggle even more next year due to having less class in their midfield while (unfortunately) Arsenal should be stronger particularly if they buy another frontman.

Liverpool's problem isn't their two world class players but the dross they are surrounded with. Very average and two men can't maintain a top four position any more I'm afraid.

Man City will no doubt continue to improve and so should we with hopefully some astute buys in the summer as already mentioned we have a squad full of very good players albeit we could use a touch more class maybe in our finishing but Modric on his day is up there with most.

At best they're average..

Gerrard, Torres, Reina & Johnson possibly aside, you tell me one Player that you'd have from Liverpool's Squad that Player for Player, you'd swap with someone out of Liverpool's Squad for your Spuds ??

& Man Ure, Rooney, maybe Ferdinand & Evra aside, what about their Team, who would swap with Player for Player ?? Park maybe ?? Possibly Valencia ??

& look what happens when there is no Rooney as in the weekend at Blackburn ?? How ordinary were they ??

Look what happens when there's no Fabragas for Arsenal ?? They go & lose 2-1 to a Team that lost 2-0 against a Championship Team 3 days previous..

[smokie36]

Look what happens when there's no Fabragas for Arsenal ?? They go & lose 2-1 to a Team that lost 2-0 against a Championship Team 3 days previous..

If the term 'World Class' is reflected in the effect a player has not only in his own performance but inspiring his team to a higher level of play then I have to nominate Ledley King. I hope he plays on Saturday but that's unlikely. Unfortunate for us and England fans too.

Reina is a great keeper but I'm happy enough with Gomes thanks as he's improved hugely this season.

[Seapok]

I'm sorry Singhy but your obvious hatred or should I say jealousy of Chelsea is blinding your opinions, let me just post this little caption then tell me again Mr Essien is not in the world class catagory;

On October 10, 2007, he was nominated for the prestigious 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Award for the third consecutive year and on October 21, 2007 Essien was also nominated for the 2007 Ballon d'Or Award for the third consecutive year as well. He was voted 15th Best Player in the World at the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards. On December 12, 2007, Essien was nominated for the 2007 African Footballer of the Year a third consecutive time he had been nominated.

[alfieconn]

I'm sorry Singhy but your obvious hatred or should I say jealousy of Chelsea is blinding your opinions, let me just post this little caption then tell me again Mr Essien is not in the world class catagory;

On October 10, 2007, he was nominated for the prestigious 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Award for the third consecutive year and on October 21, 2007 Essien was also nominated for the 2007 Ballon d'Or Award for the third consecutive year as well. He was voted 15th Best Player in the World at the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards. On December 12, 2007, Essien was nominated for the 2007 African Footballer of the Year a third consecutive time he had been nominated.

Mr Seapok, You havn't answered my question, this isn't a dig by the way just interested .

While i'm not doubting that he is a very good player, do you think he would be in the top 6 midfield players in the world ?

[carmine]

I'm sorry Singhy but your obvious hatred or should I say jealousy of Chelsea is blinding your opinions, let me just post this little caption then tell me again Mr Essien is not in the world class catagory;

On October 10, 2007, he was nominated for the prestigious 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Award for the third consecutive year and on October 21, 2007 Essien was also nominated for the 2007 Ballon d'Or Award for the third consecutive year as well. He was voted 15th Best Player in the World at the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards. On December 12, 2007, Essien was nominated for the 2007 African Footballer of the Year a third consecutive time he had been nominated.

World class and a walk in to any side i can think of. (Mindyou, it's 8.30 in the morning and my brain'n not fully functioning )

[Macclad]

Its true that our top teams rely too much on their world class players but also there arent too many world class players around.

Outside the top Premiership clubs I cant think of the likes of Villa,Everton and Birmingham having any !

Real Madrid without Ronaldo and Kaka,Barcelona without Messi and Iniesta.....their absences would leave a big void in there teams as well.

[carmine]

Messi is a magnificent player and would leave a gap in any team, but there's a lot more to Barca than him

[mrbojangles]

Some Managers and Clubs have been building their teams round an individual player for years. As you point out Singhy, it's when that individual player gets injured (or leaves) that their plan comes tumbling down.

[MSingh]

I'm sorry Singhy but your obvious hatred or should I say jealousy of Chelsea is blinding your opinions, let me just post this little caption then tell me again Mr Essien is not in the world class catagory;

On October 10, 2007, he was nominated for the prestigious 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Award for the third consecutive year and on October 21, 2007 Essien was also nominated for the 2007 Ballon d'Or Award for the third consecutive year as well. He was voted 15th Best Player in the World at the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards. On December 12, 2007, Essien was nominated for the 2007 African Footballer of the Year a third consecutive time he had been nominated.

What, you mean my obvious hate or should you mean my jealousy of Chelsea in which i put in brackets in the thread title " maybe except Chelsea " ??

That hatred & jealousy you mean ??

& Mr Seapok, going off topic for one moment here which i didn't want to do as i clearly stated in the last line of my Original Post but i would never be jealous of a bunch of two bob Whore West London Lemon's who have a Captain leading their Club like the one you have.

How can anyone be jealous of that ??

Christ almighty & i thought Northerners were the thickest in the Country when all i had to do was go over the otherside of London...

Great breakdown of what he's been nominated for by the way Seapok, didn't win any though at all i see..

I got nominated for being the most handsome Man on Samui once too, i didn't win that either & anyone who knows me could tell you why, cos i ain't fcukign handsome..

Stick to C&P'ing in your little Chelsea Thread bubble world, it suits you much better seapok my old China cos in this thread if you understood it, i'm actually trying to compliment Chelsea..

Edited April 16, 2010 by MSingh

[MSingh]

I'm sorry Singhy but your obvious hatred or should I say jealousy of Chelsea is blinding your opinions, let me just post this little caption then tell me again Mr Essien is not in the world class catagory;

On October 10, 2007, he was nominated for the prestigious 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Award for the third consecutive year and on October 21, 2007 Essien was also nominated for the 2007 Ballon d'Or Award for the third consecutive year as well. He was voted 15th Best Player in the World at the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year Awards. On December 12, 2007, Essien was nominated for the 2007 African Footballer of the Year a third consecutive time he had been nominated.

Mr Seapok, You havn't answered my question, this isn't a dig by the way just interested .

While i'm not doubting that he is a very good player, do you think he would be in the top 6 midfield players in the world ?

He hasn't answered it Alf cos his actual answer would be " no " but you're talking about someone who defended JT's actions regulary & had to put on a " United Chelsea front " to people like me on this Forum & you because JT is " Mr Chelsea "....

Heaven forbid being honest about any situation in that case where Chelsea are concerned..

So don't expect a great deal Alfredo ..

Edited April 16, 2010 by MSingh

[Seapok]

Hahahaha you do crack me up Singh........you are just too easy to wind up!....I will get you a small shandy to make up for it!

[SantiSuk]

No one team has been able to put forward a world class defence this season - due to injury (Man U), age (Chelsea), wrong tactics (Arsenal) and incompetence (Liverpool). That's mostly why the battle at the top has been much more open this year.

BTW Essien is good but he's only bordering world class (so is Lampard, so is Van Persie)

Edited April 16, 2010 by SantiSuk

[nev]

No one team has been able to put forward a world class defence this season - due to injury (Man U), age (Chelsea), wrong tactics (Arsenal) and incompetence (Liverpool). That's mostly why the battle at the top has been much more open this year.

BTW Essien is good but he's only bordering world class (so is Lampard, so is Van Persie)

True if united did not have the spell of playing with no defence for half a dozen games the league would be wrapped up now.

When you say world class there is only about dozen world class players in the league.

[StevieH]

No one team has been able to put forward a world class defence this season - due to injury (Man U), age (Chelsea), wrong tactics (Arsenal) and incompetence (Liverpool). That's mostly why the battle at the top has been much more open this year.

BTW Essien is good but he's only bordering world class (so is Lampard, so is Van Persie)

i'd say essien's definitely world class, depending on what your definition of the somewhat arbitrary 'world class' is. essien's in the top half dozen centre mids in the world.