Red Shirt Leaders Flee As Thai Forces Surround Hotel

[Artist]

I think you are all being a bit hard on the police. Its easy to joke about their incompetence but think about what you would do in the situation. You have Red-Shirts all over the place, guarding the hotel room doors and in numbers outside. Some of them may be armed. You can't go in an shoot them so how do you get in to make an arrest? Tear gas? Think of the chaos that would cause. Helicopters? What good would they do? By the time you have got through the door he is going out of the window. I don't see how you can arrest somebody surrounded by thousands of demonstrators without overwhelming numbers of police/army and using force with the potential of another bloody mess and who would that benefit? The Government? The Army or Police? The more chaos there is and bloodshed the more likely it is that the Red Shirts will succeed.

[tonywebster]

the guy wearing the plastic britsh policemans helmet in that video, hilarious

Inept from top to bottom, either that or the police had no intention to arrest them and just went through the motions. Maybe the Government should recruit the yellow shirts that post on here, they seem to be the only ones with the vitriol to follow through, although they would probably not be so brave without the anonymity the computer gives them.

being against the anarchy that the red shirts offer, does not a yellow shirt make

in fact i have no idea what a yellow shirt stands for, and i do not need educating, thank you

i am sure there are many on here who would take care of business for the government if the price was right

some are so inflamed by these developments i suspect they would do it for free and maybe a Thai elite card

where is Sifu McInnes when you need him?

i bet his blood is boiling right now, the keys to the yellow Hummer gripped tightly in his hand, waiting for the phone to ring.....

Well I never quoted you are named you, or indeed named any posters, why so defensive? maybe that cap fits......

what cap do you mean? a yellow one?

you still trying to sell that old chestnut?

i have already said i do not know what to be 'yellow' means and do not want it explained to me

i dance to the beat of my own drum and i think the red are bad news

i was brought up to have high morals and strong principles

i think they behave badly and they offend my sensibilities

i have never liked bullies and i think the reds fit into that category

defensive? yes sure

i firmaly believe ones principles are worth defending

i respect your wish to do the same but by you doing so, it means that we have to disagree on this subject

thats life, i do not expect to convert you to my way of thinking

peace

I am asking why you felt the need to respond when I made no direct accusations, I never accused you of being a yellow yet you felt it prudent to quote me and deny being a yellow. no need to deny it, I never called you one in the first place, chill.

[humfurry]

the SC Park Hotel

http://www.scparkhotel.com/

this hotel is known to be owned by the fugitive Thaksin

it should be closed forthwith for harbouring wanted fugitives

if they refuse to close then cut the power, water supplies, revoke all the drink, dining and dancing licenses and arrest the management for aiding and abetting fugitives

send the staff home on full pay at the hotels expense

this is a message that should be relayed to all other hotels anywhere in the kingdom, that accept red shirts under arrest warrant as hotel guests

if the red leaders want to be at one with their red brethren then let them sleep on the floor in the street with them instead of bunking up in a 4* hotel

telephatique eh.

I (i) tried in vain ,to make a post this morning,but the site was blocked,I (i) had similar words in my mind and fingertips,maybe not only you and me,

keep e'm coming ,

the good ideas,willya??!!

I would never suggest a DNS attack of their website... never, never, never!

[shawndoc]

According to government sources, the crowds reached 30k yesterday, but dropped to 3k by this morning. Presumably a large portion of the protesters go sleep back at home or with family members during the night.

Why aren't the police/army running their operations in the wee hours of the morning? Surely its much easier to disperse 3k reds than 30k, and it would make it much harder for any armed reds to hide amongst the old women who make up the bulk of the protesters. And then once the 3k is dispersed it should be a lot easier to keep a large group from forming again.

Why wait until its nearly noon to go after the leaders in the hotel and allow the red numbers to build back up?

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

I don't think the red rank and file care where their leaders are staying.

Also, rather worryingly, I think after this morning's events we may see more and more frustrated Bangkokians and yellows taking the law into their own hands.

[Kaweeka]

When Tienaman Square in Beijing hosted the big protest (11 years ago?) the Chinese politburo brought in troops from far away provinces to restore order. I'm certainly not in favor of what happened there then, but the concept is interesting: the outside troops had no compassion for the protesters, so were not afraid to do their assignments.

LOL - that's all we need now - a race war to add on to the class war. Some of your haven't had enough blood yet? May be Abhisit can hire the Mossad and bring them over to do his dirty work - Hamas assessination style and all?

At least he treasures his political and civil career enough to understand the dynamics at play here. There is a clear divide within the military and police institutions, and even within the new and old money people. This is not going to be solved with strongarmed enforcement, not by a long shot. The reds have proven that they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and that is an extremely dangerous thing to face.

Tactical and strategic errors of massive magnitude have been committed by those that want to force AV into stronger tactics, and now that Suthep seems to be on top of things, and not AV, I believe this is only going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

[chantorn]

As I said in the other closed thread....

Don't any of the security forces own a Helicopter???

Why wasn't the arrest and capture carried out by landing a Helicopter on the Roof???

Why weren't these guys taken out by AIR so as to avoid any confrontation with the crowd?

Why aren't all these incompetent watermelons FIRED immediately???

CS

Did you see the list of captured weapons?

One of them was an anti-aircraft gun. Maybe they are afraid of being shot down.

Come on, why would the army bring in anti-aircraft guns to control protesters? Don't tell me the red protesters have F16 fighter jets?

I think he meant the protesters were caught with anti-aircraft guns (source please?)

I think he meant the army left anti-aircraft guns when they ran away last Saturday (source please?)

[krystian]

Now they have to explain to their loyal followers why they were in the Hotel while their red shirt followers are all sleeping on the streets and are slowly bbq'd under the sun

[Jerrytheyoung]

This isn't about opinion tonywebster. Supporting this redshirt movement is supporting terrorists. Or would you prefer to call them freedom fighters?

So now we know that they are all terrorist, what we can do? kill. put in jail 80.000 people? call the isrealian special force? MIB? Capitan kirk?

Ops i forget some milions around Thailand.... we kill all this terrorist?

What we do way2?

This is a good point. Like them or hate them, one thing that's obvious is that it's not a fringe movement. What to do?

Hitler was calling the french 9and other nationals) resistants "Terrorists". This word should be reserved to people who want destroy a society not for a crowd of workers just asking for more justice as they are sidelined by the Elite and requesting Elections.

Whi is instilling the terror? Who is taking provocative decision to push the Country toward the Abyss? Who want more blood?

[Jerrytheyoung]

This isn't about opinion tonywebster. Supporting this redshirt movement is supporting terrorists. Or would you prefer to call them freedom fighters?

So now we know that they are all terrorist, what we can do? kill. put in jail 80.000 people? call the isrealian special force? MIB? Capitan kirk?

Ops i forget some milions around Thailand.... we kill all this terrorist?

What we do way2?

This is a good point. Like them or hate them, one thing that's obvious is that it's not a fringe movement. What to do?

Hitler was calling the french (and other nationals) resistants "Terrorists". This word should be reserved to people who want destroy a society not for a crowd of workers just asking for more justice as they are sidelined by the Elite and requesting Elections.

Whi is instilling the terror? Who is taking provocative decision to push the Country toward the Abyss? Who want more blood?

[LuckyFive8888]

As I said in the other closed thread....

Don't any of the security forces own a Helicopter???

Why wasn't the arrest and capture carried out by landing a Helicopter on the Roof???

Why weren't these guys taken out by AIR so as to avoid any confrontation with the crowd?

Why aren't all these incompetent watermelons FIRED immediately???

CS

Ok I'll type slowly.

They

don't

want

to

catch

them.

Only a few at the top want to do the Governments dirty work. Big loss of face again for em!

that serves as a warning for the red leaders. needless to say, it's near boiling point now.

[humfurry]

Why wait until its nearly noon to go after the leaders in the hotel and allow the red numbers to build back up?

I would think that those are the hard core Reds staying during the night. But yes, what you say makes sense.

Edited April 16, 2010 by humfurry

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

Whatever the outcome, Thailand will emerge a better and renewed country.

Are you on drugs?

[bangkokrick]

Arisman is claiming that the Police planted the bombs in his room, trying to kill him! Surely if they had wanted to do that they would have just shot him.

What a dork!

Cheers, Rick

[Hollywood3000]

Oh and don't forget at Rajaprasong they released balloons to stop the helicopters!!

I think someone needs to look at the military's budget.

Democracy and Freedom have a price. I hope democracy starts now..uphold the law, don't give and inch, arrest them all for being pirates and if the Red Shirts cannot police the bad element amongst them, then they are all guilty. Lock them all up or let the water cannons filled with 50% bleach fire all day long. Morons.

[apex2000]

good on them

shame on you

another red shirted bleeding heart who thinks lawlessness, murder and bully boy intimidation is acceptable

And what would you call the yellow-shirt action in taking possession of Government House and the airport?

I would call it lawlessness, murder and bully boy intimidation plus a few other choice words.

Problem is, I cannot think of any good words because I am uneducated as all red shirted people and their supporters are.

Edited April 16, 2010 by apex2000

[kuffki]

Hmmm,

Kidnapping of CEO OF CAT,

Kidnapping of Police Officers,

Defying Police Orders,

Assaulting Police

Escaping Police custody

Defying court orders

Illegal possession of explosives

Yes these are the people to be in the government and to rule the country! but i guess this is what democracy is all about.

PS. Nice get away by the leaders, while people sleep on the streets, they indulge themselves in the hotel. And people still think their life would be better should reds win?!

PPS. Not taking sides, just stating the facts

[huma79]

I think you are all being a bit hard on the police. Its easy to joke about their incompetence but think about what you would do in the situation. You have Red-Shirts all over the place, guarding the hotel room doors and in numbers outside. Some of them may be armed. You can't go in an shoot them so how do you get in to make an arrest? Tear gas? Think of the chaos that would cause. Helicopters? What good would they do? By the time you have got through the door he is going out of the window. I don't see how you can arrest somebody surrounded by thousands of demonstrators without overwhelming numbers of police/army and using force with the potential of another bloody mess and who would that benefit? The Government? The Army or Police? The more chaos there is and bloodshed the more likely it is that the Red Shirts will succeed.

I'm no security expert, but considering the Bangkok Post just ran an article about the (supposedly) amazing Thai Navy SEAL team, why not use them? And as someone else mentioned, the Thai military does have helicopters. Were these BiB traffic cops the only swat team they could find?

[chantorn]

Oh and don't forget at Rajaprasong they released balloons to stop the helicopters!!

I think someone needs to look at the military's budget.

Unfortunately this 350 million ballon isn't working yet.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Army-Bo...on-t335839.html

[handydog]

The whole affair is a farce that beggers belief to the beyond...........

[Jerrytheyoung]

Deleted Double posting

Edited April 16, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[humfurry]

Arisman is claiming that the Police planted the bombs in his room, trying to kill him! Surely if they had wanted to do that they would have just shot him.

What a dork!

Cheers, Rick

The sniper thingy is starting to sound a lot better to me.

[10027586]

Some people are either being deliberately thick to stir the pot or really are lacking in brainpower. Personally I would not call the majority of grass-roots reds terrorists. They're not. They have genuine grievances that need to be heard. They need the right to better education (without bribes determining how far they go and what grades they get), healthcare etc. The terrorists are the leaders and Sae Daeng's lot.

This causes a problem. Some people here lump them all together. Wrong approach guys. The ordinary reds probably have no idea about the more sinister side of things, and don't forget they're there on the ground or at home watching red tv only getting a very limited set of information (information management is something the red leaders have handled very cleverly). Btw in case anyone thinks I'm biased I also think other media sources are pretty <deleted> but we have the option of scanning the channels, seeing different views on twitter etc. The guys at the rally don't have that option.

This presents a real problem for government/police/army to handle even if they were competent. If terrorists are hiding among civilians (I count terrorists as people who carry grenade launchers and ak47s and use them) how do you take them out without harming civilians? It's a tough call. Warn them and the terrorists will flee. Don't warn them and you'll have a bloodbath. Take no action and the belligerent leadership will keep on pushing and keep on making things even more lawless. And with the grass-roots reds being so lovey-dovey while the iron fist of the red terrorists lurks unseen, the world's media will rip you to pieces if you take action.

Of course the above was on the assumption of competence. Crap. We can't make that assumption. We have police who lack the skill to handle crowd-control and frankly don't give a crap anyway, and an army that's split through the middle and stuffed with watermelons. Sae Daeng vs Thai Police and army? You know who's going to win.

Now the problem here is that whichever side 'wins' will face the same problem. If an armed group rises against them they have no means to do anything about it, lacking competent police and army. This makes Thailand incapable of having a functioning government. Which brings me to the present government.

If I was Abhisit I'd say "<deleted> to this" and leave everyone else to it, as the PM's job is an absolute poisoned chalice and anyone who takes the job is doomed to lose it within a fairly short space of time. I don't think any truly democratic leader will last more than 2 years from here on in, until a radical shift happens in Thailand.

So who can rule Thailand? Whoever has a big and ruthless private army (because the state one is hopeless). One could argue that this is the reds, with Sae Daeng's lot. Yep, Thailand has backed itself into a corner where the only type of leader who can successfully rule is an armed despot. No civilian leader will have a chance, because more thugs will come and the state army and police will fail again. So the future is either red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow or a slide into brutal dictatorship.

Personally I don't see a way out and that bothers me. I love Thailand, I really do (admittedly mostly for the food) but I just don't see a way out of this mess Maybe that's why I'm not a diplomat, rather just another anonymous wanke_r on the internet.

[dhrobertson]

the great escape now on BBC.

Where are my embarassment sensitive sunglasses?

[FreedomDude]

One thing this video also confirms is that the propaganda about low/dwindling number of Reds continues and the propaganda about how they're all at Ratchaprasong now is completely FALSE. I haven't gone out ANYWHERE in the past week without seeing Red supporters driving or walking by every couple of minutes.

That hotel is nowhere NEAR Ratchaprasong! How did hundreds of supporters instantly show up at the right time? They're just Redshirts who happened to be in the area. They're everywhere!

[londonthai]

Lock them all up or let the water cannons filled with 50% bleach fire all day long. Morons.

moron from hollywood - you should write scripts for the horror movies

[brahmburgers]

I think you are all being a bit hard on the police. Its easy to joke about their incompetence but think about what you would do in the situation. You have Red-Shirts all over the place, guarding the hotel room doors and in numbers outside. Some of them may be armed. You can't go in an shoot them so how do you get in to make an arrest? Tear gas? Think of the chaos that would cause. Helicopters? What good would they do? By the time you have got through the door he is going out of the window. I don't see how you can arrest somebody surrounded by thousands of demonstrators without overwhelming numbers of police/army and using force with the potential of another bloody mess and who would that benefit? The Government? The Army or Police? The more chaos there is and bloodshed the more likely it is that the Red Shirts will succeed.

There weren't 'thousands of protesters' guarding the leaders at the hotel. Fact remains, it was a poorly planned and poorly executed assignment. at the least, security could have stationed troops around the building - to watch out for escapees.

When Tienaman Square in Beijing hosted the big protest (11 years ago?) the Chinese politburo brought in troops from far away provinces to restore order. I'm certainly not in favor of what happened there then, but the concept is interesting: the outside troops had no compassion for the protesters, so were not afraid to do their assignments.

LOL - that's all we need now - a race war to add on to the class war. Some of your haven't had enough blood yet? May be Abhisit can hire the Mossad and bring them over to do his dirty work - Hamas assessination style and all?

At least he treasures his political and civil career enough to understand the dynamics at play here. There is a clear divide within the military and police institutions, and even within the new and old money people. This is not going to be solved with strongarmed enforcement, not by a long shot. The reds have proven that they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and that is an extremely dangerous thing to face.

Tactical and strategic errors of massive magnitude have been committed by those that want to force AV into stronger tactics, and now that Suthep seems to be on top of things, and not AV, I believe this is only going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

and yet another Red supporter who just joined T.Visa - dare I say some Red supporters have registered multiple accounts?

But to address your points: No I don't advocate race wars. However, I do think Bangkok needs to cleaned up and Bangkokians and the gov't be allowed to go back to work. It's been said a hundred times already, but it's still true: If Thaksin wasn't paying Reds to protest, (directly to Red leaders, and indirectly to the groundlings) the protest would have never got off the ground.

Edited April 16, 2010 by brahmburgers

[Jingthing]

Don't forget the red terror threat to derail a transport train. These people in charge would be a horror show.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Sorry double posting

Edited April 16, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[10027586]

@ the yellow-bashers. Yep the yellows started the pattern. And the reds are upping the ante. It needs to stop somewhere or we end up with a failed state as per my previous post.