Residence Visa

[ThaiFarang]

What are the requirements for residence visa?

I have lived here for five year on one-year visa.

People say I can get residence visa.

But nobody knows about the requirements.

I have spoken with Immigration and they gave

me a lot of information that I don’t understand.

Someone here who has residence visa maybe can

explain what documents I need for applying.

I have been told that Immigration change

the amount of cost on July 10, 2004. So its time to do it now!

Thanks.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

email alanw a fellow member. He has held pr for six years. He is a sensible kinda guy. Tell him I referred you. Good luck

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There's a new thread on here called Permanent Residence Status. Alan and I have talked in there..that might be betterfor you

[ThaiFarang]

Thanks for your advice Dr. Pat Pong

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Get going TF there'll be a bit of a rush I guess.

[ThaiFarang]

Yes, I think so. Correct me if I have wrong!

December 31 is the deadline for applying.

I have email to Alanw now. I hope he will answer me!

Thanks again

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It usually is 31 December ....usually remember T i T keep me posted on the discussion

[Indo-Siam]

TF _

Since no one has mentioned this yet, I think you will find out shortly that the change in costs for obtaining residency have already been implemented - this is not one that will wait until July 2004.

So - filing for residency will cost 7,600 baht - and if you are approved, the one-time fee will be 191,400 baht (or 95,700 baht, if you are married to a Thai). The one main issue in deciding your case will be your nationality - becuaes they approve a maximum of 100 new residency permits per year, per nationality.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

[alanw]

Message for ThaiFarang

I replied to you, in detail, last evening. I'm not all that IT savvy, and not so confident about using these forums. If you haven't received my reply, then please post message here.

If you have further questions, I strongly suggest that you quickly find a lawyer who works specifically in this area of the law. The agent I used has since moved to US to live, so I regret that I can't give you a name. I would strongly discourage you from trying to do this alone.

Sorry to say, but I've also heard that the hefty increase in all the fees has already been implemented.

Regards

AlanW

[ThaiFarang]

Thanks IS for the information!

I think I wait to next year since they already have implemented this.

I do not have much time this year for applying.

This is not going to be easy and I want to be prepared for 100%

with everything, all documents and so on.

[ThaiFarang]

Alanw. I have email back to you.

Thanks for your information and all advices.

ThaiFarang

[ThaiFarang]

Thanks Doc for you recommended Alanw.

He had some info to share.

I check next time with Immigration for updates about PR.

[alanw]

Dear Thaifarang,

Waiting for next year sounds like a good move.

I can recall it took my agent quite a while to search out copies of everything, especially copies of older word permits, older taxation returns and receipts, etc., get them translated, get them stamped at my embassy, etc. And during this time the agent became aware, a couple of time, of slight changes in the submission needs, which meant revisiting some of the sources to get slightly different documents.

In fact it cost my agent so much in 'handling fees' to get the copies of old work permits etc (from a previous employer), he politely asked me for some additional funds. I was convinced that he was quite genuine, and I agreed to 'up' his overall fee to compensate him.

Plus it took about one month to get a 'clean report' from both the Thai police, and the police at home.

I guess in all the preparation time was close to two months work.

I also recall that everything had to be submitted in about 10 sets of matching documents.

I was chatting with a friend this morning on this whole subject, he also has PR, and he reminded me of another point, which is that the agent insisted (politely) during the initial discussion that he be paid his fee progressively. The reason being that he'd seen several previous cases of Farang, who decided half way thru the document gathering period, or after submission, to abondon the idea, and then refused to pay the agent.

Best of luck.

Regards

AlanW.

[tomy]

where can i go to apply for this PR thingy

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well Tomy...you'll have to qualify first. You need a one year extended Non-Immigrant visa, extended 3 years. You need to either have a WP, or be 50 yrs or more, or have a legal Thai wife. There's other opportunities that involve bulk investments.

[george]

Alanw. I have email back to you.

Thanks for your information and all advices.

ThaiFarang

Can't you please post the info here as well, so we all can read it?

[alanw]

Dear Tomy,

Further to dr pat pong's reply, can I refer you to my slightly earlier message to Thaifarang, and specifically to my suggestion to do this thru a qualified agent or lawyer (by 'agent', I don't mean one of the shopfronts you can see around, especially in areas like Kao San Road, and other places, which advertise everything from marriage, translation, cheap tickets, work permits, circumcisism, hamburgers, and whatever).

Why? This activity requires numerous contacts with very high ranking, & low ranking, Thai officials, who do everything in the Thai style. This is not the staff you encounter at the ground floor of Soi Suan Plu. If you cannot intereact with them on their terms, show all the necessary signs of respect, deference, etc., speak in Thai, at least with some very basic responses and conversation, then your chances are reduced very considerably.

Perhaps you have:

- Been in Thailand for an extended period

- Had regular contact with the Thai beaurocracy

But, even if you can 'tick' both of the above, I would still strongly encourage you to seek out an agent or lawyer.

Please don't think I'm trying to drum up business for lawyers etc. (Please note, I haven't, and will not, mentioned any names. On a personal basis, If I need professional help in this area, then my company lawyer takes care of it.)

Hope this is helpful.

Good luck

AlanW

[alanw]

Dear George,

I'm more than happy to share my response to ThaiFArang.

But I have one problem, I don't know how to recover the message I forwarded direct to ThaiFarang.

Two possibilities:

1. Can someone please guide me on how to refer back to 'sent' 'private' messages, or

2. ThaiFarang, would you please repost my reply on the open forum.

Look forward to a response

Regards

AlanW

[ThaiFarang]

Thanks again Alanw! George, here is the email I got from Alan.

Doc, you have absolutely right about qualifying for PR.

AlanW wrote:

I can only answer from my own experience, which was about 6 years ago.

I'm sure you are aware that things change, and there is some lack of

consistency.

My understanding is that here are three 'routes':

Route 1. For those who have been in Thailand in 'retirement' for a long

time (time period unknown), my understanding is that this route is extremely

difficult / almost impossible, doesn't have much blessing from the

authorities, and i've heard that they avoid answering questions about the

requirements. This is not substantive information, it's from third hand

sources.

Route 2. For people (including all immediate family members) who come to

Thailand and immediately invest very large amount of money into a business

venture which:

a. Transfers high value technology to Thai employees.

b. Provides employment for substantial number of Thai people. (Not a girlie

bar)

However, last time I heard of this route, if the investor pulls out of the

venture, then the PR status is immediately voided.

Route 3. For those who have worked in Thailand for a considerable time

(required number of years to qualify seems to change often). Could be as an

investor, or as an employee. In my case, I had to fulfill the following

requirements (as an employee):

a. Had to prove that I had physically been inside Thailand for about 90% of

the previous 6 years, at time of application (they took my passport, checked

all the visa stamps and calculated the total number of days)

b. Had to prove that I had legitimate work permits for all of the above

period.

c. Work permit had to be issued for a profession deemed to be of high

benefit to the development of Thailand.

d. Had to prove that I have high level of advanced education.

e. Had to prove that my personal income tax returns for the total time

period had been lodged and cleared with Thai Revenue Dept.

c. Had to produce documents to state that I didn't have a criminal or police

record in Thailand and in my home country.

d. Had to have personal recommendations from two well recognized and

respected Thai persons.

e. Had to produce documents to prove that I had long-term deposits /

investments which would notionally develop to about Baht 30million by age

60. Owning own home in Thailand (thru company) also seemed to help.

f. Had two interviews with immigration officers: a. mid ranking officer who

immediately indicated that I would be asked to return for interview with

high ranking officer at a later date. (I've heard that 95% or more of

applicants don't get past the first interview.) b. High ranking officer.

About one hour. First 30 minutes all in Thai language, then second half hour

in English. Seemed to be looking for indications of strong education and

strong contribution to Thailand. Just at that time I was giving lectures at

two Thai universities, in management & business theory / organization

development / leadership / organization behavior, etc., and this seemed to

help. Seemed to also be wanting me to state that I was keen to stay in

Thailand permanently.

g. Had to have all English language documents translated into Thai language

and then stamped at my embassy. Cost of tranlation and preparation in Thai

was quite expensive because of volume, and, again because of volume,

stamping at the embassy cost quite a large sum of money.

h. Initial application fee was 2,000 Baht, non refundable. (I've heard that

this fee is now considerably higher.)

i. After final approval, I had to pay the actual fee, on the day PR book

was handed over, this was 50,000 Baht (this was the published fee - but

again, I've heard it's now considerably higher). (At the time the fees were:

50,000Baht for single people, and 25,000Baht for men married to Thai women.

My underatanding is that these fees are now 3 to 4 times higher.)

Final approval letter is signed (rubber stamp situation obviously) at a

council of state meeting - my approval letter was signed by General Prem.

Would very strongly suggest that the process is handled by a lawyer or agent

well familiar with this subject area. At the time this cost me 20,000Baht.

Lawyer insisted that I wear suit and tie to every interview.

Why did I apply - I compared approximate cost of going the 'one year

retirement visa route, and PR cost, and assumed that overall the PR route is

probably going to ultimately cost less. Plus, there seems to be no

guarantee that retirement visas are being automatically renewed from year to

year. Also wanted some sense of longer term security.

Any other benefits? Certainly makes it easier to get a whole variety of

documents transacted. (One simple / low value example - lifetime Thai

drivers licence.) Easier at Don Muang Airport.

Producing the PR book (white cover, same size as a passport, with gold

Garuda stamp on the front) seems to generate better service in a variety of

situations.

As said at top of message, the requirements seem to change from time to

time. Current picture might be different.

Let me confirm the following:

a. Even with PR you still need a work permit, in ALL work situations.

b. PR doesn't mean you can buy land in your own name. Doesn't change the law

that Thai women who marry foreigners are legally not allowed to own land.

Hope above is helpful, but as you can see the information is a little old.

Good luck.

AlanW

[lopburi3]

b. PR doesn't mean you can buy land in your own name. Doesn't change the law

that Thai women who marry foreigners are legally not allowed to own land.

Want to thank Alan for allowing us to read this email. Just want to correct the quote as it is not true. Thai women who marry foreigners ARE allowed to own land.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Very well put Alan. An excellent outline and I think I see why the agent wanted money as he went. FYI Lop is totally correct. The law changed and a Thai retains property rights after marrying a foreigner. Naturally enough, the foreigner doesn't get on the title. T i T

[plachon]

Thanks Alan for these postings. With these levels of hurdles and all the hoops to jump through, it's surprising that as many people apply for PR as the 100 per country quota. Wonder if this quota still applies to small countries like Luxembourg or Iceland? i.e probably be easier to change your nationality to one of these first, if you come from a populous country like UK or Germany.

[sabaijai]

Dr, thanks for those points. I'm over 50, have Thai wife and am almost to three years on a WP so when those 3 years are up I'm hoping it'll be straightforward.

Alanw, how many years were you on WP before you applied?

thanks

[huski]

I'm over 50, have Thai wife and am almost to three years on a WP so when those 3 years are up I'm hoping it'll be straightforward.

IMMIGRATION: Sorry Sir, you are overqualified

[alanw]

Dear Sabaijai,

Your question -'How many years had I been on a Work Permit when I applied'. I had been working with a legitimate Work Permit from almost day one of arriving in Thailand - it was arranged, as far as possible, before I arrived. To summarise, I had been living here for about 6 years and had a WP for all of that time.

Whether this is necessarily meaningful is a question mark.

I'm aware of one guy who had been here for a number of years, had been working freelance. No WP, no personal income taxes paid to Thai revenue office. He decided to apply for PR. Someone told him he needed to have evidence of WP and payment of taxes, which he then quickly organised. He applied for PR not long after the WP was issued. The first interviewing officer at Suan Plu asked him how he been supporting himself prior to the WP, he couldn't provide a convincing story. He was rejected.

I guess all of this still leaves unanswered the question about how much time in country compared to how much time with WP.

My guess (repeat guess) is that the WP would probably need to cover the majority of the actual time in country.

Perhaps dr pat pong is aware of a more accurate 'formula'.

[sabaijai]

Alan, I have a recently published book on Thai immigration law, written in Thai by an immigration attorney who served in the immigration police for 15 years. It says that foreigners are eligible for PR once they've held a non-immigrant visa and valid WP for three consecutive years. Assuming one passes all police clearances, this should be sufficient according to Thai immigration law.

The regulations say nothing about being over 50 and being married to a Thai, so I thought the points you raised were really interesting. You also mentioned owning property, well I do own a condo in my own name and have valid tha-bian baan (home registration).

My lawyer did say that attributes such as marriage to a Thai and owning property can serve as 'supporting evidence' although not at all required by law. I guess what this means is that actual granting of PR is rather abritary, that is the actual letter of the law is only part of the picture. I more or less expect that, having spent much of the last 25 years dealing with Thai bureaucracy and knowing that many Thai officials are in fact not very well versed in the regs pertaining to their own jobs. My lawyer confirms this, saying he often has to remind immigration officials about various aspects of Thai immigration law or else most of his applicants would get nowhere. (I suppose this represents another strong reason to use a lawyer -- I can't see myself lecturing an immigration officer on Thai law without it being counter-productive).

I assume you applied in Bangkok. I'm wondering if anyone reading this has ever applied for PR in Chiang Mai? I do know foreigners who have applied here and been approved. But I don't know anyone who can comment comparatively, ie, which immigration office might be more straightforward.

[monitorlizard]

I honestly don't understand why anyone would want to shell out so much money for the PR book if they are married to a Thai. DOesn't make sense to me as I only have to pay 500 abht to renew every year. The income requirement doens't really affect me as I spend more than the requirement anyway.

They do not give out life drivers licenses anymore. It is good for 5 years only. Anyway, the way the law reads is that Thailand can revoke the PR status anytime they want too.

Way I look at it if I have to pay 190,000 baht vs 500 baht per year then I would have to live an additional 382 years before I break even.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is gonna cost you more to renew now monitor, and re-entry permits are way up. Nevertheless, I agree with your philosophy. And as I understood it, a work permit is not absolutely necessary. An acquaintance with B I G money ( how he had afforded to live without work was an issue at Suan Plu ) and married to a Thai lady, got PR based on one year extensions. He never worked in LOS. He said that they messed him around but ultimately granted it. He had lived in Thailand 6 years when he got it.

[James Bond]

New counting’s…

Pr. 191.400

Marry to Thai 95.700

Application one-year 1.900

Re-entry 3.800

It’s equal to 33 year

Marry to Thai its equal to 17 year

So if you are young and married to Thai, go for it…

If you are very young and unmarried, go for it…

If you are old, let it be…

Another question!

I’m married to Thai, she has my surname.

Can or can’t she buy a house in TH.? I have one-year visa.

Great postings about pr.visa, thanks…

[lopburi3]

’m married to Thai, she has my surname.

Can or can’t she buy a house in TH.? I have one-year visa.

She can, with or without your name or visa. But she will have to say the money used is hers alone and you agree/understand the home is hers and you will not inherit it as marriage property.