Help, How Long Does A Relationshiphave To Be?

[7by7]

It is worth reminding members that many people have obtained a UK visit visa when they have had no verifiable job, not owned any property nor had any other concrete reason to return.

They have achieved this by showing that the relationship with their sponsor is genuine and ongoing, thus showing that they are a genuine visitor with a genuine reason to visit.

[tropo]

how about 1 year?...........being with someone over 2 month period may not be long enough to convince the right people "this is a sustainable relationship".It might also help you in realising this too.

For example, New Zealand Immigration need to see a relationship that has been solid for a year before they'll even consider a visitor's visa. I think one year sounds like a pretty good starting point but still too short to be ideal.

Why such a rush? I think you're jumping the gun. Do yourself a favour and let the relationship season for awhile before you consider such a huge commitment.

[tropo]

Many a visa has been refused simply because the couple have not provided proof that they were in a genuine relationship.

The relationship could seem genuine from the guy's point of view whereas the girl has other plans.

Immigration authorities are well aware of these possiblities too.

Often the guys need protection from themselves, especially the ones who fall in love and rush things at a feverish pace. Age difference could also be an important factor.

I believe the 2 young children are a negative factor in getting the visa and also a good reason for you to take your time in this relationship.

[RAZZELL]

It is worth reminding members that many people have obtained a UK visit visa when they have had no verifiable job, not owned any property nor had any other concrete reason to return.

They have achieved this by showing that the relationship with their sponsor is genuine and ongoing, thus showing that they are a genuine visitor with a genuine reason to visit.

Exactly.

I personally know a girl who had "sweet FA" and worked in the "nightlife industry"

Visa granted to the UK at the first attempt.

RAZZ

[tropo]

It is worth reminding members that many people have obtained a UK visit visa when they have had no verifiable job, not owned any property nor had any other concrete reason to return.

They have achieved this by showing that the relationship with their sponsor is genuine and ongoing, thus showing that they are a genuine visitor with a genuine reason to visit.

Exactly.

I personally know a girl who had "sweet FA" and worked in the "nightlife industry"

Visa granted to the UK at the first attempt.

RAZZ

So what.

I don't think it matters what their occupation used to be. What matters is that the relationship can be shown to be solid. I don't think there's a rule that UK citizens are not allowed to marry bargirls with no money.

I'm sure a large percentage of Thai wives now living in the UK started out that way.

[david96]

The applicant must meet the criteria for the type of visa applied for.

The criteria for a visitors visa is different to a visa for marriage, where the relationship must be proved to be genuine. Generally this is 6 months and 2 visits to Thailand by the sponsor for a marriage visa. (Policy )

For a Visitors visa the applicant must prove that they have sufficient funds for travel and they have a reason to return to Thailand and do not overstay. (Criteria). The relationship here is generally one of "friend". Policy in this case would be different as she could have a guarantor for her stay.

Policy is not fixed and can change from time to time , but it is consistant. Policy is not legislation.

The key words here are Policy and Criteria.

[7by7]

The criteria for a visitors visa is different to a visa for marriage, where the relationship must be proved to be genuine. Generally this is 6 months and 2 visits to Thailand by the sponsor for a marriage visa. (Policy )

Not for the UK, which is where the OP is asking about. There is no minimum number of visits by the UK sponsor to the applicant nor any minimum length to the relationship. The UK Immigration Rules merely state that the couple must have met. Though, obviously, ECOs use their judgment, based upon the evidence supplied by sponsor and applicant, to decide whether, on the balance of probabilities, the relationship is genuine.

For a Visitors visa.......Policy in this case would be different as she could have a guarantor for her stay.

Again, not for the UK. Only undertakings (guarantees) by the sponsor regarding providing financial support and accommodation are mentioned in the UK Immigration Rules, and so any other guarantee from the sponsor, that the applicant will return for example, are unenforceable in law and so are never sought by ECOs and if offered should not be accepted.

[david96]

With reference to post # 37.

Policy is not Legislation, the policy is what an Immigration officer consults and is in a Departmental Procedures Advice Manual or equivilant. Decisions are based on that policy as well as the critera set down in legislation.

So to determine if a relationship is genuine ( within the law of probabilities) Immigration would need to know how they met,where they met, and when they met (date) and information on the relationship itself along with an interview perhaps depending on the visa. For guidance the Immigration official would consult their Manual.

This makes the process of making decisions consistant and fair to all as far as practicable.

From your post it would seem that all an applicant has to do to get a visa to the UK is to say "we met on a certain day" and they will automatically get their visa. One thinks not. One just meeting once does not prove a relationship.

To justify any decisions Immigration can and do quote the Legislation and their Policy.

On this basis an Applicant may be able to lodge an appeal if legislation allows.

[sumrit]

With reference to post # 37.

From your post it would seem that all an applicant has to do to get a visa to the UK is to say "we met on a certain day" and they will automatically get their visa. One thinks not. One just meeting once does not prove a relationship.

Thats not the case, read 7by7's post again.

The UK Immigration Rules merely state that the couple must have met. Though, obviously, ECOs use their judgment, based upon the evidence supplied by sponsor and applicant, to decide whether, on the balance of probabilities, the relationship is genuine.

As well as having met, the applicant and sponsor must also supply documentary proof that the relationship is genuine. The ECO will base his decision, not on them having met, but on that evidence supplied. Read through the many threads on this forum and you'll find many applications have been refused because the applicant and sponsor DIDN'T provide documentary proof that their relationship was genuine.

[david96]

They failed to prove that their relationship (defacto) in this case was genuine and ongoing.

Of course one has to supply documentation to prove this. After three years this should not be difficult.

Most visa applications are refused on the following grounds.

Visitors visas. Insufficient funds for travel and /or no compelling reason to return.

Financee/defacto/dejure visas. Relationship not considered genuine and ongoing.

One might well have an application for a visa that is well prepared and detailed but if you have not addressed the criteria for the visa it will in most cases be rejected.

That time period for a relationship is policy of immigration depending on type of visa applied for.

I justify my statements from experience with Australian Immigration procedures as an Australian Citizen.

And one would think the UK would be similiar in their decision process.

Part of the criteria is the date when you first met the applicant in person, how, when and where.

[sumrit]

I justify my statements from experience with Australian Immigration procedures as an Australian Citizen.

And one would think the UK would be similiar in their decision process.

But the UK and Australian procedures aren't the same. My wife's cousin married an Australian and the procedure was very different.

this is 6 months and 2 visits to Thailand by the sponsor for a marriage visa. (Policy )

No such rules for the UK. But you must provide documentary evidence that the relationship is genuine. There's no minimum period to have known somebody but the ECO usually likes to see evidence that a relationship has progressed and developed and that's more difficult to show when the couple haven't known each other for long.

The criteria for a visitors visa is different to a visa for marriage, where the relationship must be proved to be genuine.

Assuming you're talking about somebody sponsoring their wife/gf, for the UK you must prove the relationship is genuine for a visit visa, in just the same way as you would for a settlement visa. There are differences for each visa, but not as far as proving a relationship goes.

[Thai Visa Express]

I would personally not even bother until you have known each other 6 months minimum with two visits.

[RAZZELL]

It is worth reminding members that many people have obtained a UK visit visa when they have had no verifiable job, not owned any property nor had any other concrete reason to return.

They have achieved this by showing that the relationship with their sponsor is genuine and ongoing, thus showing that they are a genuine visitor with a genuine reason to visit.

Exactly.

I personally know a girl who had "sweet FA" and worked in the "nightlife industry"

Visa granted to the UK at the first attempt.

RAZZ

So what.

I don't think it matters what their occupation used to be. What matters is that the relationship can be shown to be solid. I don't think there's a rule that UK citizens are not allowed to marry bargirls with no money.

I'm sure a large percentage of Thai wives now living in the UK started out that way.

I think you're agreeing with me

RAZZ

[Thai Visa Express]

A guy I know arrived in Pattaya for a 3 week stay married the girl from reception from the hotel .

And this was in the July of 2008 she was living in the UK in October 2008.

Once she realized he was a two week millionaire things have been rocky .

[david96]

One would certainly agree on that point. Good advice. Ref post # 42.

To prove a relationship (financee/dejure) generally is 6 months and 2 visits but this is policy not legislation that is why there is no fixed time period. Policy can change at any time.

Policy makes the application of legislation ( which is the legal requirements) more flexible in its application in some cases.

A relationship in the case of the above must be genuine and ongoing. If one does not meet this criteria your visa application will fail.

Policy does not require legislative changes, but it may have to have ministerial approval before being implemented.

Remember, a visa application will be decided using the legislation and policy and if it meets the criteria your visa application will be successful.

The personalities and personal views of an Immigration official are not biased for or against any applicant.

Being legally married may help shorten this time period if you can prove a compelling reason. But then again they would look at the policy.

[david96]

A guy I know arrived in Pattaya for a 3 week stay married the girl from reception from the hotel .

And this was in the July of 2008 she was living in the UK in October 2008.

Once she realized he was a two week millionaire things have been rocky .

Although you have not stated what the visa type was, this could well be an example of the application of policy along with a compelling reason.

[7by7]

I justify my statements from experience with Australian Immigration procedures as an Australian Citizen.

And one would think the UK would be similiar in their decision process.

But the UK and Australian procedures aren't the same. My wife's cousin married an Australian and the procedure was very different.

Exactly!

With respect, David, much of what you have posted may be the case if one were applying for an Australian visa, but is not so for a UK one!