Amnesty International Public Statement

[geriatrickid]

why wouldnt he try to pay AI off? If I was Ai Meaow I would do the same. try to get some sympathy like the tibetans. suppose he will be comparing himself to H.H.D.L. next.

so go ahead and put on your red shirt and get pissed. Peaceful protest. you just want democracy right?

You are still spewing nonsense. Don't assume that because you would try and pay AI off, that Thaksin would. Your position is the equivalent of saying Abhisit would also try to pay AI off. There is no evidence to support the statement. You are making a wild conjecture. Yes, I would like the protest to be peaceful and preferably come to an end asap without the loss of life, but so what? What is wrong with wanting democracy and how is it relevant to your making a wild unfounded allegation? AI would also like to see democracy for Thailand as well. Does that mean the statement from AI must be rejected. The stament from AI can be interpreted anyway a person wants. I prefer to see it as a plea for a peaceful resolution of the situation. If others want to look for hidden meanings, good for them.

[anotherpeter]

It is a marker that the World is watching and taking note. If civilians are killed or injured, the government and army will be held to account by international bodies like AI. If it ever has been, this is no longer an internal Thai matter.

<snip>

"Amnesty International also pointed out that the right to freedom of assembly protects only applies to peaceful assembly, and that those who engage in human rights abuses may be subject to accountability for their actions."

If civilians [or soldiers] are killed or injured, then the violent red shirts should be held to account.

[Publicus]

Back on topic, that clearly was a good, neutral and responsible article on the part of AI. That's what they need to do, in order to make both sides take notice; can't be perceived as being biased either way. It's good that an organization like AI manages this.

It is a marker that the World is watching and taking note. If civilians are killed or injured, the government and army will be held to account by international bodies like AI. If it ever has been, this is no longer an internal Thai matter.

On a different, but related note, I see fom yesterday's closed thread that the government's assertion that terrorists were involved in the violence has had an unintended consequence. Acts of terrorism are not covered by travel insurance. According to the thread, this has been given as a reason why people have cancelled trips to Thailand. "Choose your next words carefully Mr Bond. They may be your last!"

But they weren't his last words, were they....far from it.

My complaint against the government is that the continuing delay, delay, delay will cause soldiers to have to fight harder to overcome a much more and better prepared civil insurrection, thus causing a greater number of casualties and, yes, deaths on both sides. The Redshirts have made clear nothing is negotiable and their intention to destroy Bangkok. The government's dithering compounds the difficulty of overcoming the Redshirts' intransigent and violent designs, by the minute.

[rabo]

why wouldnt he try to pay AI off? If I was Ai Meaow I would do the same. try to get some sympathy like the tibetans. suppose he will be comparing himself to H.H.D.L. next.

so go ahead and put on your red shirt and get pissed. Peaceful protest. you just want democracy right?

You are still spewing nonsense. Don't assume that because you would try and pay AI off, that Thaksin would. Your position is the equivalent of saying Abhisit would also try to pay AI off. There is no evidence to support the statement. You are making a wild conjecture. Yes, I would like the protest to be peaceful and preferably come to an end asap without the loss of life, but so what? What is wrong with wanting democracy and how is it relevant to your making a wild unfounded allegation? AI would also like to see democracy for Thailand as well. Does that mean the statement from AI must be rejected. The stament from AI can be interpreted anyway a person wants. I prefer to see it as a plea for a peaceful resolution of the situation. If others want to look for hidden meanings, good for them.

"Why would he not try to pay them off" is not an accusation, rather a completely legitimate question under the circumstances.

What are those circumstances?

1. A long history of corruption and abuses of human rights.

2. He is currently using parts of his vast fortune to stir up political unrest.

3. For years he has had a campaign to influence world opinion through lies and distortions.

4. An almost unbelievable web page on AI's website that is very long and detailed but fails to

mention a single word about any of Mr. T's past record of wrong doing, and even avoids using

the word "corruption" long after his convictions and sentencing.

Is it possible that Mr. T has tried to influence AI?

Yes, sure.

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

P.S. where is the PM's evidence of Red Shirt Terrorists?? I mean hard fact Evidence!!

In the morgue and in the military-hospitals, I suspect.

[geriatrickid]

"Why would he not try to pay them off" is not an accusation, rather a completely legitimate question under the circumstances.

What are those circumstances?

1. A long history of corruption and abuses of human rights.

2. He is currently using parts of his vast fortune to stir up political unrest.

3. For years he has had a campaign to influence world opinion through lies and distortions.

4. An almost unbelievable web page on AI's website that is very long and detailed but fails to

mention a single word about any of Mr. T's past record of wrong doing, and even avoids using

the word "corruption" long after his convictions and sentencing.

Is it possible that Mr. T has tried to influence AI?

Yes, sure.

The original phrase was a person's conjecture, the statement "I suppose" he tried to buy them off. You know quite well that organizations like AI thrive on media attention. Nothing gives them a throbbing erection quite like a group attempting to intimidate or bribe the organization. It would have become a media sensation. Yes, you can ask the question, and I certainly will not object to anyone asking the question. What I object to is someone make a definitive statement that Thaksin or anyone else in Thailand tried to bribe AI.

And to answer the question, I don't think anyone in the Thai government past or present would attempt bribing AI. It won't work and AI has little influence in respect to Thailand. No country in SE Asia pays attention to AI. The Thais don't give a 2 sh*ts about the opinion of AI or any other similar group. The views of AI were ignored during the last coup and the coups preceding that one. AI also raised concerns during the Thaksin era. His response at the time was to ignore AI. So, if you are such an expert on Thaksin, you would know that he could care less about the views of AI. The reason the AI web page may not have much on Thaksin is most likely due to an inability to document the abuses many foreigners in TVF allege Mr. Thaksin committed.

Business groups investing in Thailand do not take into account a statement like AI's here. Nor do tourists on package holidays care about AI's views. If that was the case there would be no tourists heading off to Sri Lanka, Egypt or Burma. What discourages tourists and investors is instability and the cost of visiting or doing business. Humans are selfish creatures by nature. A month from now, AI's press release will be long forgotten, just like the various assaults on tourists are forgotten. Sorry, but that is the reality of the lovely world we live in today.

[Brocher]

A reasonable statement, ant it says much that AI not only explicitly supported the government's right to disperse the mob using appropriate measures while at the same time noting that the reds are supporters of Thaksin and that he was himself connected with many human rights abuses....

Agreed, a reasonably accurate and fair statement, but I think they were overly kind in the section at the end describing squareface as being 'in voluntary exile' -

Background

Most members and factions of the UDD, commonly known as "Red Shirts" for the colour of their clothing, are supporters of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin, who was deposed in a 2006 coup d'etat. Thaksin, who is currently in voluntary exile, faces numerous allegations of serious human rights violations.

Surely 'escaped criminal' or 'convicted fugitive' would have been more accurate?

[eggomaniac]

Back on topic, that clearly was a good, neutral and responsible article on the part of AI. That's what they need to do, in order to make both sides take notice; can't be perceived as being biased either way. It's good that an organization like AI manages this.

Neutral, yes, that is the key word.

70% of Thais in a poll did not support the yellows OR the reds, either. WHY 90% of farangs have to jump on one side or the other is beyond the pale!!!

It's like choosing one biker gang over another.

There are good hearted, well intentioned rank & file on both sides but they are being used as cannon fodder by corrupt leaders on both sides.

Class struggle, my aunt's arse end, it's a bunch of poor millionaires striving to be billionaires and a handful of billionaires struggling to become trillionaires, on BOTH sides. It's these chess players who know the important and key squares on the board are the Cabinet positions, Until the swamp is drained there are going to be crocodiles of all sizes, shapes and colors.

With the crippling of the economy and the shrinking of the pig trough the end prize is going to be scraps for whichever side prevails. Maybe it's time for a good old fashioned gang land council, to divvy up the pie.

[crystal ball shows the autumn military reshuffling clearing up the confusion about what is really going on in the Power struggle. watch carefully]

Edited April 21, 2010 by eggomaniac

[animatic]

why wouldnt he try to pay AI off? If I was Ai Meaow I would do the same. try to get some sympathy like the tibetans. suppose he will be comparing himself to H.H.D.L. next.

so go ahead and put on your red shirt and get pissed. Peaceful protest. you just want democracy right?

You are still spewing nonsense. Don't assume that because you would try and pay AI off, that Thaksin would. Your position is the equivalent of saying Abhisit would also try to pay AI off. There is no evidence to support the statement. You are making a wild conjecture. Yes, I would like the protest to be peaceful and preferably come to an end asap without the loss of life, but so what? What is wrong with wanting democracy and how is it relevant to your making a wild unfounded allegation? AI would also like to see democracy for Thailand as well. Does that mean the statement from AI must be rejected. The stament from AI can be interpreted anyway a person wants. I prefer to see it as a plea for a peaceful resolution of the situation. If others want to look for hidden meanings, good for them.

"Why would he not try to pay them off" is not an accusation, rather a completely legitimate question under the circumstances.

What are those circumstances?

1. A long history of corruption and abuses of human rights.

2. He is currently using parts of his vast fortune to stir up political unrest.

3. For years he has had a campaign to influence world opinion through lies and distortions.

4. An almost unbelievable web page on AI's website that is very long and detailed but fails to

mention a single word about any of Mr. T's past record of wrong doing, and even avoids using

the word "corruption" long after his convictions and sentencing.

Is it possible that Mr. T has tried to influence AI?

Yes, sure.

Without a doubt.

Thaksin's whole history is filled with attempts to 'influence' all those that dare to critique his perfection if image.

What ever tecnique works seems to be fine with him.

It coulds well be he did buy/influence ONE guy at AI to write that one long page,

but THIS announcement can from the AI committee tasked with looking around at international current events.

Where is Sam Moon when we need him to ride in on his high horse and tells all straight from the hip

'Thaksin is pefect in all ways and the savior of modern Thai society.' ( and he pays well too)

Edited April 21, 2010 by animatic

[anotherpeter]

Back on topic, that clearly was a good, neutral and responsible article on the part of AI. That's what they need to do, in order to make both sides take notice; can't be perceived as being biased either way. It's good that an organization like AI manages this.

Neutral, yes, that is the key word.

70% of Thais in a poll did not support the yellows OR the reds, either. WHY 90% of farangs have to jump on one side or the other is beyond the pale!!!

It's like choosing one biker gang over another.

There are good hearted, well intentioned rank & file on both sides but they are being used as cannon fodder by corrupt leaders on both sides.

Class struggle, my aunt's arse end, it's a bunch of poor millionaires striving to be billionaires and a handful of billionaires struggling to become trillionaires, on BOTH sides. It's these chess players who know the important and key squares on the board are the Cabinet positions, Until the swamp is drained there are going to be crocodiles of all sizes, shapes and colors.

With the crippling of the economy and the shrinking of the pig trough the end prize is going to be scraps for whichever side prevails. Maybe it's time for a good old fashioned gang land council, to divvy up the pie.

[crystal ball shows the autumn military reshuffling clearing up the confusion about what is really going on in the Power struggle. watch carefully]

There are generally 2 sides on TVF. RED and ANTI-RED.

edit: and then the 90% who never comment are the ones in between.

Edited April 21, 2010 by anotherpeter

[plachon]

Back on topic, that clearly was a good, neutral and responsible article on the part of AI. That's what they need to do, in order to make both sides take notice; can't be perceived as being biased either way. It's good that an organization like AI manages this.

I'm glad you agree that this is a "good, neutral and responsible article". Presumably you also agree with its linking Thaksin firmly to the Redshirts cause, as yesterday you seemed to have some doubts about this. Nice to see a good, clear consistent link of thinking from you Reds, as always.

[Chonburiram]

I have to live right about them with all the noises and stupid problem. Somebody please fix and make this problem go away

Welocme to Ratchaprasong Resort!

Lighten up and take a positive attitude! Make the best out of it and just neglect the political propaganda wherever it comes from. Enjoy the nice music and the dancing at times down there, go down and explore the new and growing street market, enjoy the great and tasty food of the hundreds of new food stalls, switch off your alarm clock and listen to and enjoy the sweet Thai music they play most loudly at 5am, go down and mix with your new neighbors and experience the genuine friendliness and warmth of nice Thai people. Open up your mind and you will experience a wonderful and truly exciting new world. You will meet many new interesting and exceptionally nice people. You don't need to be a Red Shirt to enjoy your time; just be a neutral observer with an open mind and heart and show respect to any human being regardless of its color or belief.

Enjoy and embrace this new experience while it still lasts - don't miss this unique opportunity, you will never find anything comparable again in your life.

I know well what I'm talking about because I also live in an apartment right in the heart of the Ratchaprasong area. I keep documenting what I see in my neighborhood and regularly update a growing collection of photos. So far I had over ten thousand visitors at this collection of photos:

Ratchaprasong Resort

TF, behavioral researcher call this "Stockholm syndrome"

[hammered]

Good statement. I dont see there is anything a reasonable person could disagree with. Lets hope it is heeded by all.

Nice to see statements by neutral bodies and not the usual old tosh, lies, propaganda and indoctrination from all the self serving players.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Yes, the statement from A.I. is correct but it is exactly what you would expect.

[TAWP]

Here is one not blocked yet!

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-432683

You are joking, right?

Do you even know what iReport is? A hint is in the 'i'.

[clausewitz]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

[anotherpeter]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

[clausewitz]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Yes, I hope now Abhist will stop with the "terrorists killed everyone" and admit that soldiers also played some part.

[anotherpeter]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Yes, I hope now Abhist will stop with the "terrorists killed everyone" and admit that soldiers also played some part.

Did he ever say "terrorists killed EVERYONE"? No, I don't think so.

There is probably no doubt that soldiers killed some people. Given that they were being attacked with grenades etc, they were most likely responding with live ammo (which the government has admitted to all along - live ammo for self defence).

[Netfan]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Yes, I hope now Abhist will stop with the "terrorists killed everyone" and admit that soldiers also played some part.

Please source where and when Abhisit said this. You are saying these were his exact words. Don't try and pull this crap here - send your CV to Arisman, et al. They could use the help with their mis-information campaign.

[rabo]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Quote from the article:

Meanwhile, the Cabinet yesterday appointed a new member to the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) - noted forensic scientist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand. However, authorities did not explain if the decision was made because they were preparing for a heavy toll in the upcoming crackdown on the red shirts.

This lady deserves an introduction in spite of the now famous hairdo.

Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand has spent much of her career investigating controversial forensic issues and has a reputation for willingness to oppose other authorities whenever necessary. She has a reputation as a social champion and for standing by the truth.

It's possible that she has been brought on board the CRES team to assure fairness and objectivity. I would think that K. Abhisit would have at least authorized this appointment.

[TheLaughingMan]

In what reality are soldiers supposed to die when being attacked by weapon wielding maniacs and not respond to defend themselves? I totally do not understand the people criticising soldiers defending themselves, the red shirts have been given soooo much leeway it is ridiculous. In most other countries you go at it with the police and military with lethal force and you are immediately put down.

[monkfish]

Amnesty International only get involved when there are HUMAN RIGHTS issues.

The way I understand AI statement without trying to spin it is they are not taking sides.

What they are asking for is an Independent Inquiry and those responsible held accountable for the 10th April Deaths.

Untill now Mr Abhisit claims everything he has done is within Human Rights and International standards if this is the case then he has nothing

to fear and should allow the investigation.

I wonder if AI statement even made the News in Thailand?

[animatic]

I have to live right about them with all the noises and stupid problem. Somebody please fix and make this problem go away

Welocme to Ratchaprasong Resort!

Lighten up and take a positive attitude! Make the best out of it and just neglect the political propaganda wherever it comes from. Enjoy the nice music and the dancing at times down there, go down and explore the new and growing street market, enjoy the great and tasty food of the hundreds of new food stalls, switch off your alarm clock and listen to and enjoy the sweet Thai music they play most loudly at 5am, go down and mix with your new neighbors and experience the genuine friendliness and warmth of nice Thai people. Open up your mind and you will experience a wonderful and truly exciting new world. You will meet many new interesting and exceptionally nice people. You don't need to be a Red Shirt to enjoy your time; just be a neutral observer with an open mind and heart and show respect to any human being regardless of its color or belief.

Enjoy and embrace this new experience while it still lasts - don't miss this unique opportunity, you will never find anything comparable again in your life.

I know well what I'm talking about because I also live in an apartment right in the heart of the Ratchaprasong area. I keep documenting what I see in my neighborhood and regularly update a growing collection of photos. So far I had over ten thousand visitors at this collection of photos:

Ratchaprasong Resort

TF, behavioral researcher call this "Stockholm syndrome"

ROTFLOL, spot on...

Oh they can't be that bad, they never beat me or anything!

[anotherpeter]

Amnesty International only get involved when there are HUMAN RIGHTS issues.

The way I understand AI statement without trying to spin it is they are not taking sides.

What they are asking for is an Independent Inquiry and those responsible held accountable for the 10th April Deaths.

Untill now Mr Abhisit claims everything he has done is within Human Rights and International standards if this is the case then he has nothing

to fear and should allow the investigation.

I wonder if AI statement even made the News in Thailand?

Didn't Abhisit organise an independent investigation the day after the riots?

[whiterussian]

I have to live right about them with all the noises and stupid problem. Somebody please fix and make this problem go away

Welocme to Ratchaprasong Resort!

Lighten up and take a positive attitude! Make the best out of it and just neglect the political propaganda wherever it comes from. Enjoy the nice music and the dancing at times down there, go down and explore the new and growing street market, enjoy the great and tasty food of the hundreds of new food stalls, switch off your alarm clock and listen to and enjoy the sweet Thai music they play most loudly at 5am, go down and mix with your new neighbors and experience the genuine friendliness and warmth of nice Thai people. Open up your mind and you will experience a wonderful and truly exciting new world. You will meet many new interesting and exceptionally nice people. You don't need to be a Red Shirt to enjoy your time; just be a neutral observer with an open mind and heart and show respect to any human being regardless of its color or belief.

Enjoy and embrace this new experience while it still lasts - don't miss this unique opportunity, you will never find anything comparable again in your life.

I know well what I'm talking about because I also live in an apartment right in the heart of the Ratchaprasong area. I keep documenting what I see in my neighborhood and regularly update a growing collection of photos. So far I had over ten thousand visitors at this collection of photos:

Ratchaprasong Resort

TF, behavioral researcher call this "Stockholm syndrome"

ROTFLOL, spot on...

Oh they can't be that bad, they never beat me or anything!

Try living in a town with quasi militant sentiment for 4 years!!

Where you dare not mention the 'T' word! Where people talk in code to you in broken english:

" coup d'etat " " junta"

Where once a week you see the neighbours drive off in red to some meeting or another...

Where your daft wife presses her naked butt cheeks on Abhisits face when he appears on TV.. usually just before lights out!

Of course, given a new election and a fair and square 'win' by the yellows, maybe they will lose the spite...

The natives are restless up here...

But they do get along, many red husbands with yellow wifes, and at my shops there is a thai guy who comes in my PAD T-shits on, and plays pool, knowing full well that the 10 or so all around him are very pro red!

Forgot to mention the Red radio stations on every day for years.. droning on and on, I swear there is a chant they do on the radio daily 'kwai kwai kwai kwai'.

maybe it was always like this. So from my point of view.... the Bangkok folk can 'go away!' they have disturbed our peace up here!!

Edited April 21, 2010 by whiterussian

[mythBuster]

If Anupong is wise he choses the red shirts and refuses to shoot on demonstrators, Anupong could get rid of Abhisit before Abhisit gets rid of him. Anpong could end up in the international court of justice for crimes against humanity if he really give the order to shoot. abhisit will end up with a European arrest warrant if one single person complains thanks to his British passport.

[tomyummer]

I think what Amnesty International meant to say was...."Please play nicely children, we don't want anyone to get hurt again."

To paraphrase the Great & Innocent Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"

[grandpops]

If Anupong is wise he choses the red shirts and refuses to shoot on demonstrators, Anupong could get rid of Abhisit before Abhisit gets rid of him. Anpong could end up in the international court of justice for crimes against humanity if he really give the order to shoot. abhisit will end up with a European arrest warrant if one single person complains thanks to his British passport.

True.

Anupong has been around much longer than Abhisit as well. He lost face by letting such a numpty in after the coup.

The Coup could have been a time to level the playing fields, hold fair elections and get the Elite appointed Courts out of the political arena. The BBC at the time referred to it as half-sail democracy! Strong praise indeed.

This time, it will be different. Even if Anupong decides to act in favor of the Elite, it will be the last time. The next step will be an all out civil war which nobody wants and only Anupong can prevent.

Arrest Thuagsabum as a start. Things will quieten down when that little fascist is muzzled. Has he ever shown the Dems and the Elite in a bad light.

[grandpops]

In what reality are soldiers supposed to die when being attacked by weapon wielding maniacs and not respond to defend themselves? I totally do not understand the people criticising soldiers defending themselves, the red shirts have been given soooo much leeway it is ridiculous. In most other countries you go at it with the police and military with lethal force and you are immediately put down.

You are wrong. Often the army can be overrun by the people as you recently saw in Kygystan. Further back, the most notable countries that disprove your statements was pretty much all the former eastern block countries with their revolutions.

The position of the Red camp (I can't believe I am explaining this to you, but hey, its raining and I can't get home) is DEFENSIVE the Army will not be attacked by this structure and the only danger is poses is if somebody runs their stupid self into it. It's been on TV all week so one would need to be off ones trolley to get impaled on it.

But, that all part of the game of PAD posting. Just trot out any old thing.

Keep trying though, some of you are getting the hang of it..... just