Amnesty International Public Statement

[TallForeigner]

Welocme to Ratchaprasong Resort!

Lighten up and take a positive attitude! Make the best out of it and just neglect the political propaganda wherever it comes from. Enjoy the nice music and the dancing at times down there, go down and explore the new and growing street market, enjoy the great and tasty food of the hundreds of new food stalls, switch off your alarm clock and listen to and enjoy the sweet Thai music they play most loudly at 5am, go down and mix with your new neighbors and experience the genuine friendliness and warmth of nice Thai people. Open up your mind and you will experience a wonderful and truly exciting new world. You will meet many new interesting and exceptionally nice people. You don't need to be a Red Shirt to enjoy your time; just be a neutral observer with an open mind and heart and show respect to any human being regardless of its color or belief.

Enjoy and embrace this new experience while it still lasts - don't miss this unique opportunity, you will never find anything comparable again in your life.

I know well what I'm talking about because I also live in an apartment right in the heart of the Ratchaprasong area. I keep documenting what I see in my neighborhood and regularly update a growing collection of photos. So far I had over ten thousand visitors at this collection of photos:

Ratchaprasong Resort

TF, behavioral researcher call this "Stockholm syndrome"

You got that one a bit wrong. I would rather just call it an ability to adapt to changing situations and try to make the best out of them. It is maybe more of a classic demonstration of what Darwin was teaching us:

"It's not always the strongest of the species that will survive but the one most adaptive to change"

I don't sit here and stay stubbornly in my apartment but I am flexible enough to cope with a new and changed situation and I do get the best I can out of it.

And by the way if I cannot change something I either learn to live with it happily or I will just be miserable for as long as the situation doesn't change.

The Stockholm syndrome is not an adequate comparison to my situation here. I am neither kidnapped nor captured nor do I feel threatened by my new neighbors. I can leave whenever I want and once the Icelandic volcano is calming down I could fly back to my home country - no one is restricting my personal freedom and holding me against my will. I am enjoying a lot of new and interesting faces in my neighborhood instead of pushing myself into the role of a victim and keep complaining and locking myself into my apartment.

But I guess it's maybe too difficult for many grumpy old farangs to understand that there are people not bothering about red or yellow bullshit and who are able to live with a positive attitude and who embrace new opportunities wherever they present themselves.

[lannarebirth]

In what reality are soldiers supposed to die when being attacked by weapon wielding maniacs and not respond to defend themselves? I totally do not understand the people criticising soldiers defending themselves, the red shirts have been given soooo much leeway it is ridiculous. In most other countries you go at it with the police and military with lethal force and you are immediately put down.

You are wrong. Often the army can be overrun by the people as you recently saw in Kygystan. Further back, the most notable countries that disprove your statements was pretty much all the former eastern block countries with their revolutions.

The position of the Red camp (I can't believe I am explaining this to you, but hey, its raining and I can't get home) is DEFENSIVE the Army will not be attacked by this structure and the only danger is poses is if somebody runs their stupid self into it. It's been on TV all week so one would need to be off ones trolley to get impaled on it.

But, that all part of the game of PAD posting. Just trot out any old thing.

Keep trying though, some of you are getting the hang of it..... just

I agree that the posture of the red protesters towards the army is defensive. Where I disagree is that IMO they took an offensive troop into an area of noncombatants. They have moved into residential and business districts and have curtailed the freedoms of the people that live and work there. The army is but the response to that offensive. It is my hope rational people will reach a compromise that avoids bloodshed and also moves the country forward.

Edited April 21, 2010 by lannarebirth

[anotherpeter]

In what reality are soldiers supposed to die when being attacked by weapon wielding maniacs and not respond to defend themselves? I totally do not understand the people criticising soldiers defending themselves, the red shirts have been given soooo much leeway it is ridiculous. In most other countries you go at it with the police and military with lethal force and you are immediately put down.

You are wrong. Often the army can be overrun by the people as you recently saw in Kygystan. Further back, the most notable countries that disprove your statements was pretty much all the former eastern block countries with their revolutions.

The position of the Red camp (I can't believe I am explaining this to you, but hey, its raining and I can't get home) is DEFENSIVE the Army will not be attacked by this structure and the only danger is poses is if somebody runs their stupid self into it. It's been on TV all week so one would need to be off ones trolley to get impaled on it.

But, that all part of the game of PAD posting. Just trot out any old thing.

Keep trying though, some of you are getting the hang of it..... just

Grandpops ... last week ... do you remember back then? I know it's a long time ago, but, you know, when the reds were using sharpened sticks, grenades, petrol bombs and guns to attack the army.

[jayboy]

Good statement. I dont see there is anything a reasonable person could disagree with. Lets hope it is heeded by all.

Nice to see statements by neutral bodies and not the usual old tosh, lies, propaganda and indoctrination from all the self serving players.

Well actually I disagree with parts of it it.Nobody has mentioned (I accept perhaps some not aware but I'm slightly surprised this is new to Hammered) the quite longstanding controversy of the local Thailand Amnesty chapter's PAD bias.It has been noted over and over again (Google is your friend) with protests made to Amnesty International headquarters.Yes folks the local Amnesty chapter is a PAD mouthpiece.

As a postscript it's not entirely surprising that the release is full of syntax and grammar errors, along with vapid Thai -English speak.

Further postscript.In the event that some people (not the blinkered ideologues of course) will be fair minded enough to search for background to check my claim that Amnesty Thailand is hopelessly one sided, have a google on the researcher cited in the article, one Benjamin Zawacki.He too is a well known and discredited figure for very specific reasons and has no right to be speaking for human rights in Thailand.

Edited April 21, 2010 by jayboy

[TAWP]

I knew we could count on Jayboy...

[FatherF]

So,let me get this straight Jay, Amnesty International are pro yellow and anti red?

That wouldn't be a "clutching at straws" statement would it? Surely not.......................

Funniest post i've read in ages.... ha ha ha ha ha

FF

[britmaveric]

Grandpops ... last week ... do you remember back then? I know it's a long time ago, but, you know, when the reds were using sharpened sticks, grenades, petrol bombs and guns to attack the army.

So if someone is attacking you aka the army - you are suppose to take it? Or should one defend oneself?

[anotherpeter]

Grandpops ... last week ... do you remember back then? I know it's a long time ago, but, you know, when the reds were using sharpened sticks, grenades, petrol bombs and guns to attack the army.

So if someone is attacking you aka the army - you are suppose to take it? Or should one defend oneself?

When the army is removing illegal "peacful" protestors with riot shields and batons, you are only asking for trouble if you respond with grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

[bkkjames]

Grandpops ... last week ... do you remember back then? I know it's a long time ago, but, you know, when the reds were using sharpened sticks, grenades, petrol bombs and guns to attack the army.

So if someone is attacking you aka the army - you are suppose to take it? Or should one defend oneself?

When the army is removing illegal "peacful" protestors with riot shields and batons, you are only asking for trouble if you respond with grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

Assuming Britmav is in the UK, how would protesters there respond? The Army came out banging their batons telling people to disperse and were attacked.

[britmaveric]

^Well if it were Millwall supporters - they'd attack the army/police. (always looking for a good scrap, well in better days- )

[jayboy]

I knew we could count on Jayboy...

"So,let me get this straight Jay, Amnesty International are pro yellow and anti red?

That wouldn't be a "clutching at straws" statement would it? Surely not......................."

" knew we could count on Jayboy..."

As I expected the ideologues and their camp followers just fire off unthinking platitutudes without bothering to do even the basic research.All the information on the flawed Thailand local chapter of Amnesty is freely available and has been much discussed overf many months.There's no suggestion of course, at least in my mind, that Amnesty International is other than an admirable organisation.

[monkfish]

Parliament Rejects Proposal to Form Committee to Probe Apr 10 Violence

BANGKOK: -- Parliament has turned down the proposal to set up an ad-hoc House committee to investigate the violence that broke out on April 10 when 25 people were killed and hundreds injured.

Pheu Thai MPs, who sympathize with the anti-government red-shirt protesters, protested against the decision by walking out of the assembly room.

http://redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thailandoutlook.tv%2F' target="_blank">

-- Tan Network 2010-04-21

Looks like they have something to hide!

[geriatrickid]

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Quote from the article:

Meanwhile, the Cabinet yesterday appointed a new member to the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) - noted forensic scientist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand. However, authorities did not explain if the decision was made because they were preparing for a heavy toll in the upcoming crackdown on the red shirts.

This lady deserves an introduction in spite of the now famous hairdo.

Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand has spent much of her career investigating controversial forensic issues and has a reputation for willingness to oppose other authorities whenever necessary. She has a reputation as a social champion and for standing by the truth.

It's possible that she has been brought on board the CRES team to assure fairness and objectivity. I would think that K. Abhisit would have at least authorized this appointment.

Have you been sleeping. She lost all credibility when she endorsed the bomb detector. She just did not endorse it, but she came out and said that her tests showed the bomb detectors worked. She staked her reputation on that. The bomb detectors have been proven to be duds and useless. This woman has never med a microphone or a news opportunity that she couldn't embrace. She now has zero credibility and her stupid endorsement of the bomb detector brought all of her previous work and claims into disrepute. There have been scandals with pathologists in other countries. Do you know what happens when a major error is shown? All of the pathologists cases have to be reviewed and the evidence is tainted. In Thailand, what we got was silence. No review. Dr. Pornthip has no other option but to work with the current government as she has no other options. Maybe it is an attempt to rehabilitate her position, but if you noticed she went very quiet after her claims were shown to be incorrect. well, now she is back again and I think she will find anything she says will be challenged.

There are plenty of credible forensic staff available to provide professional advice. they may not be as photogenic and have dull public personas, but they can do their jobs. There are qualified Navy personnel free of taint, that both the military and the UDD would accept. Mark my words, this woman will bring the government into disrepute. Until she explains herself over the bomb detectors she should not be allowed to act in any official capacity.

[commons]

Welocme to Ratchaprasong Resort!

Lighten up and take a positive attitude! Make the best out of it and just neglect the political propaganda wherever it comes from. Enjoy the nice music and the dancing at times down there, go down and explore the new and growing street market, enjoy the great and tasty food of the hundreds of new food stalls, switch off your alarm clock and listen to and enjoy the sweet Thai music they play most loudly at 5am, go down and mix with your new neighbors and experience the genuine friendliness and warmth of nice Thai people. Open up your mind and you will experience a wonderful and truly exciting new world. You will meet many new interesting and exceptionally nice people. You don't need to be a Red Shirt to enjoy your time; just be a neutral observer with an open mind and heart and show respect to any human being regardless of its color or belief.

Enjoy and embrace this new experience while it still lasts - don't miss this unique opportunity, you will never find anything comparable again in your life.

I know well what I'm talking about because I also live in an apartment right in the heart of the Ratchaprasong area. I keep documenting what I see in my neighborhood and regularly update a growing collection of photos. So far I had over ten thousand visitors at this collection of photos:

Ratchaprasong Resort

TF, behavioral researcher call this "Stockholm syndrome"

You got that one a bit wrong. I would rather just call it an ability to adapt to changing situations and try to make the best out of them. It is maybe more of a classic demonstration of what Darwin was teaching us:

"It's not always the strongest of the species that will survive but the one most adaptive to change"

I don't sit here and stay stubbornly in my apartment but I am flexible enough to cope with a new and changed situation and I do get the best I can out of it.

And by the way if I cannot change something I either learn to live with it happily or I will just be miserable for as long as the situation doesn't change.

The Stockholm syndrome is not an adequate comparison to my situation here. I am neither kidnapped nor captured nor do I feel threatened by my new neighbors. I can leave whenever I want and once the Icelandic volcano is calming down I could fly back to my home country - no one is restricting my personal freedom and holding me against my will. I am enjoying a lot of new and interesting faces in my neighborhood instead of pushing myself into the role of a victim and keep complaining and locking myself into my apartment.

But I guess it's maybe too difficult for many grumpy old farangs to understand that there are people not bothering about red or yellow bullshit and who are able to live with a positive attitude and who embrace new opportunities wherever they present themselves.

ok. not "stockholm syndrome". sounds more like mid-40 to mid-50, post-middle-age-crisis, "self experience" - without any responsibilities for close or larger social comittment. enjoy the fun ;-) the "resort" ;-)

[xminator]

In what reality are soldiers supposed to die when being attacked by weapon wielding maniacs and not respond to defend themselves? I totally do not understand the people criticising soldiers defending themselves, the red shirts have been given soooo much leeway it is ridiculous. In most other countries you go at it with the police and military with lethal force and you are immediately put down.

Its the reality faced french and greek anti-riot forces during the last 10 years. And guess what, its working... Look at what countries that have put down mass protests with the kind of loss of life seen April 10th. Such shining beacons of democracy as Iran, China and Myanmar.

There is one simple rule to anti-riot handling. Do not give live ammunition to military opposing protesters. European countries on regular occasions handle much more violent mobs then the bangkok red shirts. With water cannons, shields, batons and tear gas only. Following such protests the police will be slammed in the FREE press for use of violence, police that become too happy with their batons will lose jobs and in more then one case responsible politicians step down for even a single accidental death to a protester.

As an example, here is the wikipedia recount of the july 2009 riots in France:

A series of riots took place in July 2009 in France. On Bastille Day in the commune of Montreuil, a eastern suburb area of Paris, French youths set fire to 317 cars.[1] Thirteen police officers were injured.[2] On July 9, many youths started a protest in Firminy near Saint-Étienne, after the death of a young Algerian man, Mohamed Benmouna, in police custody.[3][4] Benmouna's parents rejected the official account of suicide.[5] Riots on Bastille day are a frequent occurrence in France as the disaffected protest high unemployment rates and failed integration policies for minorities.[3][6] More than 240 people had been arrested near Paris.

The injured officers suffered mainly from hearing difficulties after having been targeted by youths armed with fireworks and small-scale home-made explosives.[7]

See any reference to live ammunition used by police? No? Because they wont use them. They know very well, that if they do all that happen is more hate and more trouble next time. Instead, arrest a random number of people. I doubt any of the arrested where held for more then a few days and fairly sure all of them where let out without even a fine.

But hey, TIT...

[TallForeigner]

ok. not "stockholm syndrome". sounds more like mid-40 to mid-50, post-middle-age-crisis, "self experience" - without any responsibilities for close or larger social comittment. enjoy the fun ;-) the "resort" ;-)

Thanks; I try to enjoy the resort. Or do you suggest that I show "responsibilities for close or larger social comittment" by locking myself into my apartment and keep whining and complaining and giving stupid statements like "please somebody fix and make this problem go away"? And if I continue your lead to make assumptions about someone you don't know I suggest that the whining and complaining stuff might be rather your way - but it's certainly not mine.

[monkfish]

THAILAND: URGENT--Further bloodshed must be avoided at all costs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

AHRC-STM-064-2010

April 21, 2010

A Statement by the Asian Human Rights Commission

THAILAND: URGENT--Further bloodshed must be avoided at all costs

This evening, April 21, there are many disturbing reports of a possible new attack to disperse anti-government protestors that have continued to assemble in Bangkok, calling for the unelected premier, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to step down and for new elections to be held. There are grave and legitimate fears that further violence is imminent and that more lives will be lost. On April 10, at least 25 people died and hundreds were injured when the army moved on assembled demonstrators. Although the government denied that the military on that occasion used live ammunition, all evidence is to the contrary.

The government of Thailand should by now be aware that the use of soldiers to dislodge these demonstrators is totally counterproductive. Not only has it failed in its basic objective, but it has also again dragged the country's reputation to new lows, ironically, just as its diplomats are bidding for a seat on the United Nations Human Rights Council. The government must know that it will face worldwide opprobrium if security personnel again attack and kill demonstrators.

But beyond the condemnation and outrage at home and abroad, it must also recognize that what is at stake in Thailand today is not the stability of a district or accessibility of a street, but the future of a society.

In dealing with the demonstrators, the government must bear in mind that it alone has the capacity to completely destroy respect for state institutions through rash and disorganised responses. Although others can damage these institutions, it is the persons responsible for their upkeep who can cause truly great and lasting damage. The deep loss in public respect for state institutions over recent years, especially loss of confidence in the judiciary, is primarily a consequence not of public actions but of the wrongheaded and ill-intended acts of successive administrations. Any resort to violence now will only further diminish the standing of key state agencies, causing further setbacks to the decades-long project to build rational institutions for a humane and intelligent society.

The Asian Human Rights Commission urgently reminds the government of Thailand of the special responsibility that it has to respond carefully to a complicated situation. The government cannot absolve itself of this obligation. Nor do the exigencies of the present circumstances make it less pressing; on the contrary, they make it all the more important. Further bloodshed must be avoided at all costs. The confusion and tragedy of recent days must not be turned into catastrophe.

# # #

About AHRC: The Asian Human Rights Commission is a regional non-governmental organisation monitoring and lobbying human rights issues in Asia. The Hong Kong-based group was founded in 1984.

Posted on 2010-04-21

Back to [AHRC Statements 2010]

http://www.ahrchk.net/statements/mainfile....tatements/2512/

Edited April 21, 2010 by monkfish

[SpoliaOpima]

Thaksin was PM for something like five years and the only related thing he had to say to the kind of international agreements cited in the post was "the UN is not my father." Since being deposed Thaksin has insanely tried to compare himself to Gandhi and madly tried to compare Abhisit to Hitler.

AI is well aware no Thai government has signed the agreements of international standards regarding civil disorder, rioting or civil insurrection, but AI also knows Abhisit has spoken repeatedly of responding to the Redshirts in accordance to "international standards," which is quite the difference from the Thaksin years of tyrannic government. AI further notes Thaksin's record of human rights abuses and his support (sponsoring) of the Redshirts. Neither side is pure and AI is basically reminding the government to keep its necessary actions to the minimum, which one would have to agree is a remarkable and exceptional position for AI to take - indeed, the necessary and proper position of this time, place, circumstance and given the nature of the insurrectionists and their benefactor.

Well said.

[Publicus]

Indeed to the AHRC -they and Amnesty International are on the mark.

Abhisit has shown flexibility in offering an election a year before the sitting parliament comes to its term, by extraordinarily meeting three Redshirt leaders personally, twice and on live national television, has offered new and further discussions, has spoken repeatedly of dealing with the intransigent and determined insurrenctionists in accordance to "international standards".

Abhisit has done all he can or could do short of a complete capitulation to the mob of absolutely focused insurrectionists who care nothing about the country. Abhisit hasn't had any choice but to turn the situation over to the army and to do all he can to minimize the eternal curse of the nation-state, i.e., citizen fighting against citizen.

We make an appeal to Thaksin in his 5-star diggs abroad to stop all of this madness. Stop it now, Thaksin, stop it now.................................

[monkfish]

I don't fancy his chances of getting on the "United Nations Human Rights Council"

But I think he could become very famous for other reasons.

[Publicus]

I don't fancy his chances of getting on the "United Nations Human Rights Council"

But I think he could become very famous for other reasons.

Notorious, which Thaksin already is and has been for some considerable time..

[monkfish]

I don't fancy his chances of getting on the "United Nations Human Rights Council"

But I think he could become very famous for other reasons.

Notorious, which Thaksin already is and has been for some considerable time..

Lol Thaksin this Thaksin that makes everything OK.

Your call Mr PM but may be you will meat up with the UNHRC in Holland one day, one bonus at least you won't need a visa.

[Publicus]

I don't fancy his chances of getting on the "United Nations Human Rights Council"

But I think he could become very famous for other reasons.

Notorious, which Thaksin already is and has been for some considerable time..

Lol Thaksin this Thaksin that makes everything OK.

Your call Mr PM but may be you will meat up with the UNHRC in Holland one day, one bonus at least you won't need a visa.

We're awfully getting ahead of ourselves in introducing to the discussion the International Court in the Hague. As may concern leaders of Thailand, however, Thaksin would be the first to be called if the court were to summons anyone from the local environs. As concerns the OTT western Europeans, one never can rule out any possibilities, no matter how far fetched fingering Abhisit would be. Nothing anyway has happened yet and we just don't know, although the atmospherics are strongly suggestive of a necessary action occurring, and occurring sooner rather than later. Abhsit's already made his case in many ways, to include having met personally with international leaders at various global forums and by his statements that his fellow countrymen, who are being cynically duped (my words of course) and their lives being used by Thaksin in his madness to return to power and money, will be treated up to "international standards" in their dispersal.