Future Pattaya, What It Like In 2020?

[gguy]

I am currently preparing the business plan for our company for the next ten years. More accurately, I am reviewing the Country Managing Directors summaries and developing a direction for the Far East operation.

It got me thinking about what Pattaya will be in 2020.

My fearless predictions in no particular order:

--increased corruption at all levels of gov't

--severe water shortages

--continued infill development with condos, shop houses, etc, all vacant land between Beach Rd and Third will be developed

--contraction of beer bars due to development, introduction of multiple floor beer bars

--tourists primarily low cost Asian tours

--decline of Western tourists and retirees due to high cost, pollution, etc. and competition from other countries

--slow decline of entertainment industry due to lack of personnel, high costs, competition from other countries

--little or no improvement in infrastructure

--continued increase in crime with a significant increase of violent crime

--increased level of taxation with higher VAT, property taxes, and perhaps an income tax on retirees

In summary a town much little today but much more population density, more pollution, high cost, and higher crime.

[NADTATIDA1]

I think you have got your work cut out enough without worrying about Pattaya!

[WitawatWatawit]

dam_n, increased corruption at all levels of government. Just when I thought it had already topped out and couldn't possibly get any worse.

(My humble apologies to the civil servants at the Land Dept and the Immigration Dept who've been obliging, accommodating and friendly to me over the years, if this comment offends. It's always your bosses who are the *igger in the woodpile, not you.)

Wit

[enginerevision]

Invest in Cambodia, you can go back 50 years in time!

[NamKangMan]

I agree with your assesment. That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia. These countries are moving forward, very fast, where as, Thailand, is going backwards, at a faster rate.

[smokie36]

Invest in Cambodia, you can go back 50 years in time!

Yeah but no rewards for the next 20 years thoogh.

[hagler]

a thriving boom town thanks to the introduction of the casinos beginning in 2015...

[Tejas]

I agree with your assesment. That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia. These countries are moving forward, very fast, where as, Thailand, is going backwards, at a faster rate.

I agree..........but I would not include Malaysia because of its population policy.........Vietnam, Cambodia are the places to be. This will be self-evident in 15-20 years.

[LennyW]

Whatever will be - will be!

Pattaya will still be here along with the whingers predicting it's imminent demise!!

[Spoonman]

in 10 yrs time Pattaya has its own gumbyment....that is scary indeed.

[gerry53]

Regarding your 10 year business plan for your companies Far East Operations. I would suspect you are in the monkey business but you could be in the funeral business as your predictions were so dire and negative?

On the plus side if the Mayan calendar predictions are correct it will all end in 2012 so we won't have to suffer Pattaya's fate!

I hope you didn't cause anyone to swan dive off their balcony or stretch a rope. If there ever was a glass half empty guy.......!

Edited April 23, 2010 by gerry53

[craigt3365]

I think your predictions are pretty dire. I remember reading the same about New York City 20 years ago. Today, it is nothing like they predicted. A true world class tourist destination.

One way to look at this to review the past 10 years. Is it really worse now than 10 years ago? I see better roads, storm drains installed, excellent freeway access to Bangkok and the new airport, much better shopping, different kinds of tourists (for better or worse?), great opportunities for decent housing (some scams, but some good deals), they cleaned up the bay...a bit, etc.

What will the future hold? Who knows...but I am pretty willing to bet all on the fact it won't be as bad as you are predicting...

[kopite]

more doom and gloom

*opens balcony door and peers down*

[Tejas]

Whatever will be - will be!

Pattaya will still be here along with the whingers predicting it's imminent demise!!

People who use words like "whingers" are often the ones who are most messed up......they can't or refuse to see reality.

Why? Most likely because they are heavily invested, are losing money due to the economic crises, and/or can't escape from Pattaya.

Their collective dream (e.g., Pattaya-Jomtien will become like Monaco) has become a nightmare they refuse to acknowledge.

So they get upset any time any person states the truth. And they throw insults are those in tune with reality, calling them "whingers."

Pattaya's reality is a bitch: crime has increased dramatically; the quality tourist social engineering project failed; the worst type of farangs are staying and many of the best have left already; the real estate market is crashing (actually a good thing); people pollution is a fact (along with traffic jams and air pollution); the infrastructure is piss poor (city smells like a sewer in many places); local inflation is high; development has spoiled the natural environment............etc., etc.

[PattayaParent]

I bet they'll still be working on that stretch of road over the hill to Jomtien.

And there'll still be a water leak running down Soi Nernplubwan.

Edit: Oh, and they'll still be selling condos in the still yet to be started Ocean 1 Tower.

Edited April 23, 2010 by PattayaParent

[Tejas]

I bet they'll still be working on that stretch of road over the hill to Jomtien.

And there'll still be a water leak running down Soi Nernplubwan.

Edit: Oh, and they'll still be selling condos in the still yet to be started Ocean 1 Tower.

Good one....... :D

[PhilHarries]

Well in 1992 people were talking about the big clean up, no more beer bars, all those illegal businesses sea side of walking street cleared out etc etc etc.

Other than a few shopping malls people use to cool off in and a few western style supermarkets nothing, nada, zippo, zilch has changed.

Oh I forgot the nice new roads that still flood despite the perennial installation of new drains.

And I have to agree with PP, Thappraya road will still NOT be finished. I believe that is a massive money laundering project and nothing to do with building a new road.

[craigt3365]

Whatever will be - will be!

Pattaya will still be here along with the whingers predicting it's imminent demise!!

People who use words like "whingers" are often the ones who are most messed up......they can't or refuse to see reality.

Why? Most likely because they are heavily invested, are losing money due to the economic crises, and/or can't escape from Pattaya.

Their collective dream (e.g., Pattaya-Jomtien will become like Monaco) has become a nightmare they refuse to acknowledge.

So they get upset any time any person states the truth. And they throw insults are those in tune with reality, calling them "whingers."

Pattaya's reality is a bitch: crime has increased dramatically; the quality tourist social engineering project failed; the worst type of farangs are staying and many of the best have left already; the real estate market is crashing (actually a good thing); people pollution is a fact (along with traffic jams and air pollution); the infrastructure is piss poor (city smells like a sewer in many places); local inflation is high; development has spoiled the natural environment............etc., etc.

I think you could say this about many places around the world. Panama, Costa Rica, Chile, Mexico, etc. Unfortunately, the human population is not know to help things as their numbers increase....heck, the real estate market crashed pretty much world wide...

Edit: wanted to add this could also apply to Honolulu. My parents moved there in 1955. I was born in 1957. I have seen home movies from that time...Waikiki was amazing. I have been back many times in the past 10 years. It is a mess now. Traffic is crazy. Prices out of control. I saw white women walking the street speaking Japanese to the Jap tourists trying to find a customer. Crazy...

Edited April 23, 2010 by craigt3365

[gerry53]

Some of the previous negative posters should get out of town, maybe even run for it! Option B you could each do suicide watch for each other.

LennyW was right - whingers.

The area is not perfect by any means but appears to be getting better. I find the restaurants and shopping facilities getting better and classier. Supermarkets are getting better with more available for expats. Theatres, bowling and other sources of entertainment are getting better. Same for the hospitals and medical tourism. I think the slow change to tourist diversity (family vacations) isn't hurting either and can't hurt Pattaya's image. Pattaya will always be a mongers town first but all the above make it a better place to reside and call home.

As I stated it's not perfect but it's a nice place to hang your hat.

Edited April 23, 2010 by gerry53

[Tejas]

I think you could say this about many places around the world. Panama, Costa Rica, Chile, Mexico, etc. Unfortunately, the human population is not know to help things as their numbers increase....heck, the real estate market crashed pretty much world wide...

Edit: wanted to add this could also apply to Honolulu. My parents moved there in 1955. I was born in 1957. I have seen home movies from that time...Waikiki was amazing. I have been back many times in the past 10 years. It is a mess now. Traffic is crazy. Prices out of control. I saw white women walking the street speaking Japanese to the Jap tourists trying to find a customer. Crazy...

Hawaii.......I first visited in the early 70s.......it was beautiful then (still too many people even then but nothing like today).

I remember visiting Hawaii again in the late 80s. I also remember it seemed like I was visiting Japan I think I had trouble finding an English newspaper!

Oh well........many of the negative changes we are seeing today are directly related to population: TOO MANY PEOPLE!

Hawaii (especially Honolulu) and many of the once great places you mentioned, and of course Pattaya-Jomtien, are being ruined by "people pollution."

It is a shame that politicians (and the people that elect them) do not focus on the "population problem" as our number one problem.............followed by the development and deployment of a sustainable energy system.

Instead, as is the case in Pattaya-Jomtien, they want more people pollution..........more, more, more, and more still. Too bad.........I and others remember a less people polluted Pattaya-Jomtien.

Even as early as 1986, I remember a very quiet, beautiful Jomtien Beach with wonderful old-growth trees.....now those old growth trees have all but gone as a result of some idiot (or group of idiots in the govt) who took them all down with a chainsaw back in, I think, 2003.

Because of that stroke of mindless stupidity, the beach is eroding and the much needed shade the trees provided is gone.

Believe me, we are not running out of people, so nobody needs to have any more IMHO of course.

[Zstarx]

Think what Pattaya was like 10 years ago, has there been that much change? I've been coming to Pattaya for 5 years and I haven't seen much change, apart from the Russians

[Pattaya46]

That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia.

Vietnam, Cambodia are the places to be. This will be self-evident in 15-20 years.

Many problems already for those who invested in Cambodia...

Don't forget that it's worst than Thailand in the way to "own" a house or a business.

When you can get 49% in Thailand but 51% of vote rights,

in Cambodia you have to use a "local partner" and you will not have more than 49% of rights...

Many case of foreign investors who had to sold their shares and leave...

[Zstarx]

That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia.

Vietnam, Cambodia are the places to be. This will be self-evident in 15-20 years.

Many problems already for those who invested in Cambodia...

Don't forget that it's worst than Thailand in the way to "own" a house or a business.

When you can get 49% in Thailand but 51% of vote rights,

in Cambodia you have to use a "local partner" and you will not have more than 49% of rights...

Many case of foreign investors who had to sold their shares and leave...

Yes, and not many golf courses in Cambodia

[Tejas]

Think what Pattaya was like 10 years ago, has there been that much change? I've been coming to Pattaya for 5 years and I haven't seen much change, apart from the Russians

A five year time span is not enough to see major changes (in most cases).

Ten years provides more clarity.

Twenty to thirty years provides a lot of clarity.

Ten years ago Pattaya-Jomtien was different:

1) far less people (the Russians had not yet invaded)

2) expats were not worried about visa issues (very easy to stay long term back then....do not even remember visa runs);

3) Jomtien beach was covered in large, old-growth shade trees that prevented erosion (now they are gone);

4) the overall economy was better;

5) it was far less expensive (rental/hotel rates were in many cases half of what they are today);

6) crime was not an issue;

7) expats were not jumping off of buildings daily (proxy measure for happiness?);

8) there were no traffic jams (no cues to park);

9) no Reds vs Yellows;

10) most expats felt welcome (xenophobia was all but non-existent)

11) there was no social engineering project to rid Thailand of expats considered "poor quality"

and last but not least,

12) the real estate hounds had not yet discovered Pattaya-Jomtien.

It was a different place..........different atmosphere.........less stressful........less focused on greed and nutty development projects.

[somtampet]

I agree with your assesment. That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia. These countries are moving forward, very fast, where as, Thailand, is going backwards, at a faster rate.

I didnt notice what product he was selling,for you to make an assumption like that.I didnt see the majority of his business was based for Pattaya.In all probability i believe the man has got plenty of these things wrong and has stated the obvious for some things.

[Utterlyuseful]

You want us to do the work for you while you are out playing golf?

[Rimmer]

You want us to do the work for you while you are out playing golf?

Unnecessary comment! If you re read the OP post it should become evident that his fearless predictions have nothing at all to do with his business plan

I am currently preparing the business plan for our company for the next ten years. More accurately, I am reviewing the Country Managing Directors summaries and developing a direction for the Far East operation.

It got me thinking about what Pattaya will be in 2020.

My fearless predictions in no particular order:

[craigt3365]

That's why, your "business plan" should focus on Vietnam, Cambodia or Malaysia.

Vietnam, Cambodia are the places to be. This will be self-evident in 15-20 years.

Many problems already for those who invested in Cambodia...

Don't forget that it's worst than Thailand in the way to "own" a house or a business.

When you can get 49% in Thailand but 51% of vote rights,

in Cambodia you have to use a "local partner" and you will not have more than 49% of rights...

Many case of foreign investors who had to sold their shares and leave...

I think for a business, you can't ignore Vietnam or Cambo. For sure they are up and coming countries. But light years behind Thailand. I've spent a fair amount of time in both countries...though never lived there. They are just not my cup of tea...a little to "rustic" for me. I enjoy the entertainment options here in Thailand much better...and I am NOT talking about the girls...just so much to do here.

[thaibeachlovers]

All the new malls will be luxury multi floor bar beer and GoGo establishments, and the hotel over Central festival will be a short time outfit. ( Think Nana Plaza, but 10 times larger ).

Prostitution will be legalised, so mongers can arrive direct at U Tapao ( ? spelling ), be picked up by their lady of choice, and taken to their resort, like happens in Venezuela now.

Families with children will be banned.

( I can dream, can't I ).

[torrenova]

I am not convinced that multi floors work in Pattaya. In highly concentrated areas they could work but I think people would rather move to an area further from the beach than go upstairs. The short lived but unsuccessful example of the Pier at the entrance to Walking Street is a classic example. Millions spent, not customers, though they did make the crucial mistake of going back on their plan to put in an escalator.