Loosing Air Pressure In Most Types Of Tires

[Wash]

I have not seen a problem like this before and wonder if anyone can enlighten me about where the air goes in all types of tires in Thailand. It seems like all tires loose air very slowly and require constant refill. Motor bikes, bicycles, hand carts, tractor tires, every tire I can think of looses air and I am at a loss to know how to stop it.

Can anyone give me some solution to the problem?

Thanks for any help.

[bunta71]

I am also amazed at how often all my tires need air. As a kid I did a lot of tire work. Last set of new Michelins I had put on my Volvo are also leaking. There are two probable causes. One is inferior valve stems made who knows where and the other possibility is the bead area on the wheels/rims being rough and not clean or smooth. When these last Michelins were installed I had the guy take a wire brush to the rims where the tire beads contact the wheels. Seemed to really help although one of the four still needs air once a month.I will have the tires re-balanced,rotated and will have the one still leaking taken apart and have the wire brush action and will replace the valve stem. Thats about all you can do. It is a pain in the ass though to have to deal with this unnecessary task.

[garyh]

In Australia there was a fad of filling tires with nitrogen as it is not supposed to leak through the tyre itself, they claimed you lost air this way. Maybe it was just a way to make extra money, I don't know for sure.

[Gluestick]

Heat and humidity (tons here) can affect the tire pressure and how quickly air escapes. I don't know where to find any but if possible, fill up your tires with nitrogen gas. Molecules are bigger so less air escapes and it's safer.

[Lancelot]

Beats me, but I've started putting air in my tires every time I get gas, usually every 7 to 10 days

Edited April 24, 2010 by Lancelot

[tb86]

check the tires for poor bead seating, stems, irregularites in the lip of the wheel and or cracks/chip, but the heat does effect the tire pressure as well, best trick is a little soapy water around the rim and stems of course you have to take them off the car to do this, look for areas where new bubbles are forming, easiest way to look for leaks

[Soutpeel]

Heat and humidity (tons here) can affect the tire pressure and how quickly air escapes. I don't know where to find any but if possible, fill up your tires with nitrogen gas. Molecules are bigger so less air escapes and it's safer.

Correct, there is a scientific basis for this, but for normal car tires, will cost you a f*kcing fortune, aircraft tires are nitrogen filled as it is inert and doesn support fire...

Think I will stick with the compressor at the PTT petrol station for my tire filling needs...

[fredob43]

I have a tyre presure temp gauge in my fortuna. So check it every time I turn on. Seem's to stay the same all the time with only the odd top up of one or two pounds every month. My M/Cy is a different kettle of fish looses about 10pound's a week. Never found the air line's in petrol station's any good they all seem to read all over the place.

[WarpSpeed]

Heat and humidity (tons here) can affect the tire pressure and how quickly air escapes. I don't know where to find any but if possible, fill up your tires with nitrogen gas. Molecules are bigger so less air escapes and it's safer.

Yes Nitrogen has less humidity and doesn't expand as much under high temps also slowing tire wear. When you fill with Nitrogen whether hot or cold your tire pressure remains more consistent so what you're reading is actual and not magnified, this is a racing trick, not many people have a compressor in their house or garage so that means they have to drive to fill up their tires and then heat up the tires so that the pressure is not at static pressure. I've been impressed to have seen a few tire shops here that actually have invested in Nitrogen producing machines, that's ahead of the States as far as I know, never saw one there and dealt with many..

The air does not actually 'dissipate' or "leak out" but the tire stretches from heating and cooling cycles and the pressure drops, this is more an issue with more flexible steel belted tires & more of an issue in hot climes with higher humidity (humidity = expansion).. With smaller tires such as bicycle tires this effect is magnified given the smaller amount of air and weaker tire walls and tread construction...

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Thongkorn]

if they are alloys ,maybe gone poruse,

[WarpSpeed]

I have a tyre presure temp gauge in my fortuna. So check it every time I turn on. Seem's to stay the same all the time with only the odd top up of one or two pounds every month. My M/Cy is a different kettle of fish looses about 10pound's a week. Never found the air line's in petrol station's any good they all seem to read all over the place.

Is that a "TEMP" gauge or "Pressure" gauge? The station pressure gauges inaccuracy is why I carry my own, even if wrong a consistent gauge is still essential set it by YOUR gauge..

I recommend putting in 10% more air then you would if cold, most people here don't run proper pressure anyway.

The locals put in 32 pounds on Z rated or even H rated tires regardless of manufacturer recommendations which are stamped into every sidewall and which now a days require much higher pressures to support the sidewall under loads. I usually fill to within about 10% of maximum pressure for proper inflation and allows for expansion without exceeding maximum, it increases ride stiffness so not so comfortable but also increase tire life, fuel mileage, as well as braking and steering response so the trade off is worth it..

Most refer to the automotive manufacturer listing on the car but that is just a general guideline not an absolute and varies greatly with tire manufacturers and ratings then common sense has to take over and we all know how much of that there is here..

I also regulate about 2 pounds diff between front and rear between FWD and RWD as they heat up differently, if FWD, 2 lbs more in the rear unless you have an LPG tank as it adds quite a bit of weight to the rear so heats up OK, reverse if RWD..

Make sure the proper pressure is in your tires before you have them aligned too as this will change your alignment settings and wear..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Wash]

Thanks for all the ideas. I already have an air compressor so am able to resolve the problem with little effort and in fact find that we end up filling a lot of tires for others that are not able to buy an air compressor. It would be fun to try the nitrogen but far too expensive for me to undertake getting set up with that type of compressor.

I have always suspected the quality of the valve stems but not found a way to get any that I know are of good quality. I have not checked the bead around the rims since there are so many different tires involved (ours and neighbours) that it would be huge task to deal with that issue.

I have very little problem with the Nissan NV and seldom have to add air to the Michelin tires that are on it, but for sure new motor bikes, new bicycles and carts all have the problem from the outset.

Seems like a great business opportunity if anyone is so inclined since I suspect it is country wide and anyone that comes up with a low cost solution is bound to make big bucks with it.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

[WarpSpeed]

How about a mobile compressor unit to check and fill tires, that does sound like a real possibility here, a couple baht a tire depending on the size etc. can add up pretty quickly.. Thai's are all for convenience, could carry a Nitrogen tank and a regular gas powered air compressor...

[Thongkorn]

if they are alloys ,maybe gone poruse,

If the aluminium is not of a good grade the air can go through them, if you could find a paint to paint the inside of the wheel to seal the rim that may help. I do not think that atmospherics are the problem,

[fredob43]

I have a tyre presure temp gauge in my fortuna. So check it every time I turn on. Seem's to stay the same all the time with only the odd top up of one or two pounds every month. My M/Cy is a different kettle of fish looses about 10pound's a week. Never found the air line's in petrol station's any good they all seem to read all over the place.

Is that a "TEMP" gauge or "Pressure" gauge? The station pressure gauges inaccuracy is why I carry my own, even if wrong a consistent gauge is still essential set it by YOUR gauge..

I recommend putting in 10% more air then you would if cold, most people here don't run proper pressure anyway.

The locals put in 32 pounds on Z rated or even H rated tires regardless of manufacturer recommendations which are stamped into every sidewall and which now a days require much higher pressures to support the sidewall under loads. I usually fill to within about 10% of maximum pressure for proper inflation and allows for expansion without exceeding maximum, it increases ride stiffness so not so comfortable but also increase tire life, fuel mileage, as well as braking and steering response so the trade off is worth it..

Most refer to the automotive manufacturer listing on the car but that is just a general guideline not an absolute and varies greatly with tire manufacturers and ratings then common sense has to take over and we all know how much of that there is here..

I also regulate about 2 pounds diff between front and rear between FWD and RWD as they heat up differently, if FWD, 2 lbs more in the rear unless you have an LPG tank as it adds quite a bit of weight to the rear so heats up OK, reverse if RWD..

Make sure the proper pressure is in your tires before you have them aligned too as this will change your alignment settings and wear..

As stated temp & presure gauge Toyota extra. Tell's temp and presure in clock wise direction one at a time. Also give's an audible warning if have puncture or un'natural problem with tyre. Update on each tyre every 40sec while engine is on. I belive will fit most car's

[Mrjlh]

Scientifically, all tires are "porous" regardless of the rubber compounds you use. Just takes a long period of time to loose all the air. And the older they get, the more porous they become so the faster you lose the air. Fill up a balloon and see how long it takes the air to escape? Sometimes a long time, sometimes months.

[katabeachbum]

manufacturer recommendations which are stamped into every sidewall and which now a days require much higher pressures to support the sidewall under loads.

not correct

the tyre pressure on tyres sidewall is the TYREMANUFACTORERS limit for tyre pressure, often also called storage pressure or max load pressure.

cars are extendidly tested before released for sale, and the result of the test is displayed in the drivers door sill as recomended pressure for this vehicle with standard tyres.

this pressure gives max traction, brake and lifetime

tyremanufactorers pressure for a Vigo 4x4 auto 4 door is 45 psi displayed on tyrewall, and the vehicle leaves Toyota factory with this pressure to avoid squared tyres during storage.

Toyotas recommended tyre pressure for this vehicle/tyre is 29 psi to obtain max traction and lifetime, tested over a decade and millions of km.

Since I have worked for a high end car manufactorer I trust their tests, and my tyres last 70-90 k km here in LOS

Edited April 24, 2010 by katabeachbum

[johna]

The problem is probably the type of rubber your inner tubes are made from; locally made inner tubes are cheap and made from recycled rubber which is subject to a type of bacteria that eats rubber.

My bicycle inner tubes are bought from Probike and cost 220 Baht, I have no problems with these inner tubes.

My motorbike inner tubes cost 100 Baht and they have to be changed pretty often.

[MESmith]

Would tyre sealant work, & is it available here?  Needed to replace tyres on my mower & tyre shop didn't have a clue what I meant by sealant (as translated by my wife, who also wasn't too clear what I meant)

[MESmith]

My first set of  tyres on my truck lasted 50,000km.  they were pumped up by the mechanics at service, too high I now realise.  Went bald in the centre of tread.  Replacements are still on at 90,000km.  Need replacing due to age.  Kept them at pressure recommended by Mitsubishi, 29psi.  Enough said?

[WarpSpeed]

if they are alloys ,maybe gone poruse,

If the aluminium is not of a good grade the air can go through them, if you could find a paint to paint the inside of the wheel to seal the rim that may help. I do not think that atmospherics are the problem,

Ok then what about my steel rims and the tire on my boys bicycles that have inner tubes?? I'd be just doing back flips to hear your reasoning behind those and BTW this is not just a phenomena that the OP has experienced and I'll pit my more then 20 years of motorsport experience in this very environment over a speculation made by you with nothing more then a baseless comment, if you got more FACTS, provide them please were all eyes...

[WarpSpeed]

manufacturer recommendations which are stamped into every sidewall and which now a days require much higher pressures to support the sidewall under loads.

not correct

the tyre pressure on tyres sidewall is the TYREMANUFACTORERS limit for tyre pressure, often also called storage pressure or max load pressure.

cars are extendidly tested before released for sale, and the result of the test is displayed in the drivers door sill as recomended pressure for this vehicle with standard tyres.

this pressure gives max traction, brake and lifetime

tyremanufactorers pressure for a Vigo 4x4 auto 4 door is 45 psi displayed on tyrewall, and the vehicle leaves Toyota factory with this pressure to avoid squared tyres during storage.

Toyotas recommended tyre pressure for this vehicle/tyre is 29 psi to obtain max traction and lifetime, tested over a decade and millions of km.

Since I have worked for a high end car manufactorer I trust their tests, and my tyres last 70-90 k km here in LOS

Absolutely IS correct with information provided directly to me by the track side tire engineers of Kumho, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Hoosier, Firestone, Michelin, Yokohama and numerous others who I've dealt with over the course of my motosports career and I'm far more inclined to believe their professional opinion over someone posting anonymously on an expat forum..

More over when was the last time you applied anything you understand in the riggers of track competition? Far more demanding then anything you'll see on the average lifetime of any tires you'll ever buy and before you say it all of those tires I mentioned were DOT approved street legal tires by rule and not specially built race tires or slicks...

I'd also like to include that when Firestone had their famous roll over incidents in SUV's in the States and recalled thousands of tires for inspection and investigation it was found to be under inflation and sidewall flex that caused it. The tire pressures were set to vehicle manufacturer specs for RIDE COMFORT by the vehicle manufacturer and not THE TIRE MANUFACTURER which caused the rollovers. So if you wish to run your SUV tires at 29 PSI that's a chance you're taking with your life and your passengers but don't provide such misleading disinformation to innocent people seeking a serious answer without real FACTS and personal practical experience to support your suggestion. You're suggestion IS dangerous while mine is merely a bit uncomfortable to the passengers.

On closing, high end manufacturer you say? Would that be maybe a Lexus dealership the brand that just had to stop selling their high end SUV for it's roll over safety question?? Yeah I'd take their advice! Point being it doesn't have to be Lexus nor does the topic have to be tires, I wouldn't trust any information you hear from any dealership or manufacturer here in LOS it's all BS, especially high end manufacturers as they know squat from zero practical experience better to educate yourself directly and not take a sales persons advice....Their first priority is to sell vehicles and if the ride is too firm they might not so they fudge somethings for sales and don't believe otherwise..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

manufacturer recommendations which are stamped into every sidewall and which now a days require much higher pressures to support the sidewall under loads.

not correct

the tyre pressure on tyres sidewall is the TYREMANUFACTORERS limit for tyre pressure, often also called storage pressure or max load pressure.

cars are extendidly tested before released for sale, and the result of the test is displayed in the drivers door sill as recomended pressure for this vehicle with standard tyres.

this pressure gives max traction, brake and lifetime

tyremanufactorers pressure for a Vigo 4x4 auto 4 door is 45 psi displayed on tyrewall, and the vehicle leaves Toyota factory with this pressure to avoid squared tyres during storage.

Toyotas recommended tyre pressure for this vehicle/tyre is 29 psi to obtain max traction and lifetime, tested over a decade and millions of km.

Since I have worked for a high end car manufactorer I trust their tests, and my tyres last 70-90 k km here in LOS

Correct. The pressure numbers on the side walls are 'MAX' pressure but NOT the operating pressure for a particular usage.

JFYI that quote of mine is cut down to summarize my REAL answer.... Read the original again and educate yourself.....Or not, up to you.......

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Would tyre sealant work, & is it available here?  Needed to replace tyres on my mower & tyre shop didn't have a clue what I meant by sealant (as translated by my wife, who also wasn't too clear what I meant)

It is available and I have a can in my trunk but it gums up everything for future changes and is also explosive due to the fumes given off so should only be used in extreme situations..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Spoonman]

In Australia there was a fad of filling tires with nitrogen as it is not supposed to leak through the tyre itself, they claimed you lost air this way. Maybe it was just a way to make extra money, I don't know for sure.

What a load of crap, Nitrogen was touted as being more stable to maintain a more consistent Tyre pressure, had nothing to do with leakage.

[Lancashirelad]

Over inflation above & beyond the vehicle manufacturers recommended pressures will cause:

Harsh bouncy ride. (particularly with the rear of unladen, cart sprung pick-ups)

Hugely increased stopping distances in the wet. (Increased propensity to skid)

Excessive tyre wear in the centre as poster MESmith found out.

Coincidentally, back here in the UK i just had to move a Morris Minor Traveller (Woodie) out from where i've had it stored. I hadn't seen it for 7 years.

3 out 4 tyres still had enough air in them to move it

[WarpSpeed]

My first set of  tyres on my truck lasted 50,000km.  they were pumped up by the mechanics at service, too high I now realise.  Went bald in the centre of tread.  Replacements are still on at 90,000km.  Need replacing due to age.  Kept them at pressure recommended by Mitsubishi, 29psi.  Enough said?

No..... One example of one tire manufacturer and no idea how much pressure the idiot mechanic put into your tires relatively speaking, also not likely it stayed that way for the entire duration of their lifetime.....It isn't just about tire mileage either but getting the most mileage out of the safest compromise of performance as well..... And just for your info larger tires heat up slower and cool down quicker so a lower tire pressure does not provide as good a traction because it magnifies that problem and that is already an issue with SUV tires due to their larger tread width..

But for me enough said, no sense trying to teach blind people how to see, sometimes you just have to let them walk into walls to learn.....The smart ones here will heed the good, free advice I've provided and take it to heart, all others well..........You pays your money and takes your chances hopefully in the end your poor decisions will only cost you and no one else..Like my family for example....

[WarpSpeed]

Over inflation above & beyond the vehicle manufacturers recommended pressures will cause:

Harsh bouncy ride. (particularly with the rear of unladen, cart sprung pick-ups)

Hugely increased stopping distances in the wet. (Increased propensity to skid)

Excessive tyre wear in the centre as poster MESmith found out.

Coincidentally, back here in the UK i just had to move a Morris Minor Traveller (Woodie) out from where i've had it stored. I hadn't seen it for 7 years.

3 out 4 tyres still had enough air in them to move it

I agree, over-inflation will cause that, as will under inflation cause many of the same problems, but not proper inflation, which is what is being suggested...

[enginerevision]

I a hot country like Thailand, tires pressure differences between hot and cold can be around 0.4/ 0.5 bar.

I think alot of people are using cheap tires and a to low tire pressure, that's what causes to leak.

And like said by previous people here, the numer of PSI or BAR on the tire wall is the maximum safe tested pressure for the tyre. It's not ment to be pumped that hard !!

[WarpSpeed]

I a hot country like Thailand, tires pressure differences between hot and cold can be around 0.4/ 0.5 bar.

I think alot of people are using cheap tires and a to low tire pressure, that's what causes to leak.

And like said by previous people here, the numer of PSI or BAR on the tire wall is the maximum safe tested pressure for the tyre. It's not ment to be pumped that hard !!

Curious? Who has suggested it be pumped that high?? It is not the maximum safe tire pressure either, it is the maximum safe tire pressure under stated load I.E. 1188lbs or 530kgs per tire. Are you so foolish to think that if the maximum stated tire pressure is 44 lbs PSI that at 45 PSI it is going to explode?? A tire is rated as much as 3 times it's maximum pressure before failure so it would be foolish to think otherwise, the manufacturer won't tell you that though because some idiot might test that for entertainment and kill themselves.... As said, it is a general guideline and disclaimer to keep it simple-stupid for the average monkey out there, kind of like McDonalds having to put a warning on their coffee cups that the liquid inside may be hot and can cause burns .....

On the track I routinely ran my pressures within 15 to 20% of their maximum and guess what? Amazingly I have never had a tire failure from said pressure in more the 20 years of racing, once my crew over-inflated it though and it had too much over-steer and caused a minor crash...Once they are hot that pressure very often exceeds maximum PSI and tires on the track run much higher temps and sidewall stresses then you will ever see on a street application under normal driving and that's also with Nitrogen as mentioned..Why do you think so many tire manufacturers are involved in Racing in the first place? It's the riggers the tires are put through, there's years of R&D gained in just a few races..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed