Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[Gippy]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

Thank you for the links. Whoever said that they are "photoshop, and a very bad one", please step forward.

I did try to examine them, and admittedly the photos are of far too low resolution to make a definitive judgement, but the lighting does match the overall photo light directions and intensity, and any shadows that could give them out aren't there. The fact that object and background are in focus could be due to large aperture (or is it small aperture? high F), which would match high lighting conditions in which sunny photos were taken.

Only one that I have some doubts about is the photo in front of temple. The photographer clearly was on his/her knees when taking that photo, trying to get the temple in. For this photo to look credible, he would have to have leaned forward, but I am not sure whether he did. Also there is some chromatic aberration on this photo, on the right side of his shirt, which is not on the other photos, but then again, it could just be cheap lens.

Said that, I don't see an evidence of "a bad photoshop job". Obviously a "good photoshop job" of someone having hundreds of photos to choose from and loads of time on his hands could have produced photos that would be indistinguishable from the real ones.

If they are not Photoshop where did the images on the right hand side of this attachment come from? Did somebody remove Thaksin by Photoshoping back in the grains of sand on the beach? Maybe they did, my photoshop skills end at save for web so I can't really judge if that is possible.

Any link to the higher quality images of he is here/ he is not here shots? I will say the photos he was in surely made it easy to delete him out given the backgrounds. If you look at the area of the door frame of the temple, it is just a copy and mirrored image of the other side. The road and sand certainly would make it easy to delete Thaksin our of the pics as does the his positioning of at a temple where one side is simply a mirror of the other.

That's the biggest I can find. There are a lot of photoshop people working on the group I got that from, usually they are content with putting his head on a lizard but it's quite possible they removed him with some clever copying and mirroring as you suggested.

[TheOldWolf]

Brit, it not a thaivisa policy, it is a Bangkok Post policy

[jdinasia]

This is good... after all I would wager most of the 'elite' be they red or yellow... will have plenty of skeletons in the closet.

Time to blow the lid off this 'face' crap. Get it all out there. Shame those who deserve to be shamed.

Of course nobody had the balls.. because everybody is gagged, once by an elected official.. now by guns and the threat of the yellows to elevate this into civil war.

the threat of the Yellow shirts? .... once the red Shirts have announced they will be chasing the yellow shirts everywhere, The Yellow shirts have cancelled all movements and postponed their ultimatum to Government by another week.

The Middle Class cannot afford to meet the rural: .... Golf Club against bamboos....

Is this an open admission that the reds are far more violent by nature than the PAD? If so, I am glad to see Jerry finally being more honest about the violence of the reds.

Farmers have a far tougher job than shopkeeper or manager, so no doubt that the class confrontation will be at the disadvantage of the Middle class.

Few years ago, we have gotten the French fishermen fighting the Anti riot force, 50% of the police force sent to hospital; police have never meet such an issue. But the french fishermen have a very tough job; Atlantic is not a sea for tourists and the working conditions quite tough. Same for the Northern Farmers, I have no doubt they will break in pieces the Middle class.

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

[dobadoy]

The latest nation opinion peace suggest the Thai police force in its entirety should be dissolved for incompetence.

I've been saying that pretty much since the first day I arrived in Thailand in the 1990s.

:D

Edited April 27, 2010 by dobadoy

[humfurry]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

Thank you for the links. Whoever said that they are "photoshop, and a very bad one", please step forward.

I did try to examine them, and admittedly the photos are of far too low resolution to make a definitive judgement, but the lighting does match the overall photo light directions and intensity, and any shadows that could give them out aren't there. The fact that object and background are in focus could be due to large aperture (or is it small aperture? high F), which would match high lighting conditions in which sunny photos were taken.

Only one that I have some doubts about is the photo in front of temple. The photographer clearly was on his/her knees when taking that photo, trying to get the temple in. For this photo to look credible, he would have to have leaned forward, but I am not sure whether he did. Also there is some chromatic aberration on this photo, on the right side of his shirt, which is not on the other photos, but then again, it could just be cheap lens.

Said that, I don't see an evidence of "a bad photoshop job". Obviously a "good photoshop job" of someone having hundreds of photos to choose from and loads of time on his hands could have produced photos that would be indistinguishable from the real ones.

If they are not Photoshop where did the images on the right hand side of this attachment come from? Did somebody remove Thaksin by Photoshoping back in the grains of sand on the beach? Maybe they did, my photoshop skills end at save for web so I can't really judge if that is possible.

Any link to the higher quality images of he is here/ he is not here shots? I will say the photos he was in surely made it easy to delete him out given the backgrounds. If you look at the area of the door frame of the temple, it is just a copy and mirrored image of the other side. The road and sand certainly would make it easy to delete Thaksin our of the pics as does the his positioning of at a temple where one side is simply a mirror of the other.

Convince me... do one or two. The reso sucks on these pics, my experience with PS is that it's easier to add than to erase. Look at the pic of Thaksin with a tree coming out of his head... No pro would ever take that shot. Look again there is no sign of life other than Thaksin in any of the pics. No other people, nothing at all. Only pros wait or stage shots like this... everywhere you see Thaksin on video he is surrounded by people. So yes I think that the ones on the right are real.

[jcbangkok]

Brit, it not a thaivisa policy, it is a Bangkok Post policy

In fact, I believe TV is continuing to try to forge a relationship with the post. At least that was the case in an interviewing I was reading with George a month or so ago.

[hammered]

The latest nation opinion peace suggest the Thai police force in its entirety should be dissolved for incompetence.

I've been saying that pretty much since the first day I arrived in Thailand in the 1990s.

:D

Well theres an interesting idea for national reconcilliation. Something nearly everyone would agree on.

[lannarebirth]

Brit, it not a thaivisa policy, it is a Bangkok Post policy

Ah, I see! Apologies TV.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

[bob6023]

I'm not red and I'm not yellow...but this article seems pretty accurate. It is total chaos. I've never seen a civilized country act like this. Allowing violent protesters to take things over, while the police and the army do nothing. It is just crazy. This country is really messed up...sure glad I am not living in Bangkok now...

You're absolutly right this country is crazy. this could not happen in any western country. What is wrong with these people?

[bkkjames]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

So what you are saying is don't provoke a farmer? I come from a farming background, should I not provoke myself?

Shut up, no you, what, be quiet, who me,

[hammered]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Getting away from poltics but I would suggest you spend some time in rural villages when the lao-khao gets flowing and Im not even being critical of the people but it is a hard physical existance and violence certainly rears its head. Not disimlar to the poor background, in a rich country, that I come form. More violent in all ways than middle class ones.

[Jerrytheyoung]

The latest nation opinion peace suggest the Thai police force in its entirety should be dissolved for incompetence.

I've been saying that pretty much since the first day I arrived in Thailand in the 1990s.

:D

Police and to a lesser degree Army are avoiding to fuel the conflict. they do know that inside they are divided as the thai people. I find them very responsible at the difference of Abhisit and Suthep.

[way2muchcoffee]

BBC's Thai correspondant has just reported, (and I hope I heard right). That the government say they have evidence of a deeper plot, to overthrow the government and undermune the monarchy.

The Suthep propaganda this morning..... Red Shirt Leaders have already sued him for developing fake informations (Webfact)

The debate is going lower and lower....soon we will have all the gossips of massage parlours and brothels.....

How do you know it is propaganda? How do you know it isn't real? Is is because it doesn't fit with your view of the red shirt movement? Is it because it came from the mouth of Suthep (admittedly not a savory chap)? Is it because it was denied by the red shirt leaders (admittedly not savory chaps)? What is the evidence you have in front of you for rejecting these claims?

[jcbangkok]

Convince me... do one or two. The reso sucks on these pics, my experience with PS is that it's easier to add than to erase. Look at the pic of Thaksin with a tree coming out of his head... No pro would ever take that shot. Look again there is no sign of life other than Thaksin in any of the pics. No other people, nothing at all. Only pros wait or stage shots like this... everywhere you see Thaksin on video he is surrounded by people. So yes I think that the ones on the right are real.

I am no photoshop expert but it is often easier to take something out of a photo especially given the background of these photos. When you add something to a photo you need to make sure photos are of the same quality and lighting and such for them to not look like obvious fakes. I could have easily taken Thaksin out of any of these photos and was going to do it last night as a joke but knew the conspiracy folks would jump on them as real. Understand, I am not a Thaksin supporter by any means but tend to try to disregard conspiracy type stuff unless credible evidence is provided .. especially when this type of conspiracy would serve little purpose. I "might" buy that the photo dates are wrong though because he really does look in good shape and the last few times I have seen him on video he looked very bad and his hair had receded much more. But again, what would be the point as the truth will come out soon if he is dying or very ill. He would just be confirming to reds he is a liar. hmmm then again I am not sure they would mind if he gave a reason for lying to them.

[jdinasia]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

LOL ...

There's the one-sided vision that I have come to expect from someone that defends the violence of the reds! Ignore the violence, ignore the incitements to violence etc .... defend the people threatening the country with guerilla war

[way2muchcoffee]

Due to people who did only took their own interest in mind and made false, empty promises to the poor, Thailand has come to a point where something has to give. The Nation Newspaper should be the last one to point fingers. The Nation has been in the camp of coup takers and the city elite for a long long time. Instead of explaining the readers how a democracy works they encouraged the yellow shirts to take over the city. It was this mob which was called "creative" by foreign minister Kasit who encouraged the have nots to adapt to the same tactics. However, where women and children were not safe at all when the yellows were on the streets. (Never seen so many incapacitated armed guards who had completely lost it) the reds are just on the street. the very same soldiers that the Nation welcomed in order to overthrow legitimate governments are settling internal scores right now. That has nothing to do with yellow or red but with the way the army is organized and the way they pass over good people.

The Nation should set a good example and explain why Abhisit is the best man for the job. (Young, inexperienced, never seen a rice paddy, rich, spoiled, never led a village, city, province or company). The Nation should also explain why there is so much disparity in income between the rich and the poor. They should explain why the rich are hardly paying any taxes, and they should explain that Thaksin is not the only one who was not paying taxes on the sale of his imperium. Nobody does in Thailand. They should explain why it is fine for a company that filed for bankruptcy and let numerous investors and banks out there with billions of dollars in bad debt to pay the Democrat party 256 million baht.

Anarchy is the rule in Thailand for 40 years. Not one person high up feels that the laws are made for them. Politicians with murderous sons buy the judges, Politicians who occupy airports buy judges, corruption and graft is a fine art in Thailand, hardly ever committed by anyone with a red shirt, they have nothing so they get nothing and can pay or ask certainly for nothing.

On top of that the Nation should explain why they support a movement (PAD) that opposes the one man, one vote principle. The Nation is only one reason why Thailand is in a sorry state.

I agree with you. The quality of the journalism is ridiculously poor. There should be incisive and informative articles. There should be good investigative journalism. But there aren't. I can't think of any newspaper in Thailand that has proper journalists. Some of the editorials are ok, but that's about it.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jerrytheyoung]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Getting away from poltics but I would suggest you spend some time in rural villages when the lao-khao gets flowing and Im not even being critical of the people but it is a hard physical existance and violence certainly rears its head. Not disimlar to the poor background, in a rich country, that I come form. More violent in all ways than middle class ones.

I spend a lot of time in an issaner village and first, I do not see the Lao khao flowing except in exceptional parties. here it is very poor, and they are not drinking alcohol often. (Nakhon Phanom Area).

But no doubt about the daily physical training utilising the Tic-Tac or working in the fields with basic tools. (including women working in the paddies)

with my in -law family, we drink a little the saturday evening only. Remaining of the week: water.

[bhakta]

The situation is clearly going downhill rapidly. That the government is incapable of at least arresting the clear leaders and silencing them shows that the government is impotent. I am very much saddened for the Thai country, having been here for the past 26 years, I would never have dreamed it would come to this.

Mr. Thaksin, if he cared anything for his country, would loudly order his red shirts to go home before there is massive bloodshed and total anarchy, which is what appear to be coming at us now.

[way2muchcoffee]

Farmers have a far tougher job than shopkeeper or manager, so no doubt that the class confrontation will be at the disadvantage of the Middle class.

That's a fact. Consider the shopkeeper who wakes up at 4:00, heads to the local market for fresh stock, then runs the shop from 6:00 am to 10:00 pm. They get no days off unless they wish to close the shop. Consider the middle manager who works roughly 60-70 hours per week, 10-12 hour days with one day off per week. These folks rarely get vacation. Now consider the typical Thai rice farmer. He works hard about 4-5 months per year, perhaps every day at 10-15 hours per day - during those few months per year. The rest of the year amounts to about 1 day per week. Plenty of time off. Plenty of relaxation. Freedom to work at his own schedule. Yep. Farming is tough compared to the corporate grind.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[agord]

I notice that Hillary's wearing RED in that video clip from the US Embassy. It must be for a reason.

It's more of a deep fuchsia than it is red. If someone was wearing orange I wouldn't call it yellow either.

[shamus]

Hey Thaksin's been kicking back and getting some snaps. I've got a where's Wally around the world book that looks like this. That first one is so fake for sure, check out the definition on his edges, I'm probably upsetting someone who's probably already said that but I cant be arsed to trawl, it's not that important

[jjmax]

Check out post 366 - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Worsening-Cr...62#entry3544562

I think that's a fairly definitive answer - unless there's some amazing photoshopping going on there

Thank you. As said above, it's not a bad job. Whoever has done it had a huge number of photos to choose from and/or a lot of time to get it done, which would suggest it was done by someone close to him. That would of course beg the question - why?

He's running out of cash to pay for the flights? He's looking different so he doesn't want anyone to see it? Something else?

Whoever did the photoshop job, didn't do it in 5 minutes. So there should be some serious reason behind it.

I take that back. After a close investigation, the photos without Thaksin are a clearly bad photoshop job.

Photo 1: the fence behind him is copied from the right side of the guy in white shirt. The door and part of the background is mirrored from the other side of the door.

Photo 2: Look at the building just left of the signboard. It's considerably lower than the rest of the buildings. It's rubberstamped in.

Photo 3: The patterns on the sand and especially in the wet part of the sand, near the "wave" are mirrored, then smudged.

Therefore - these photos are no proof that the photos with Thaksin are fake. They are merely speaking volumes about how badly someone wishes they were fake to the point of erasing him from the photos.

But fellas, when you depart on such a mission, make sure that you do your job right, or don't do it.

And remove the date stamp for christ's sake. Without blowing the photo up I didn't notice it, but once I clicked on it (unfortunately after sending the above blunder), it was an immediate clue that the photos on the right are tailored.

For me the photo in front of temple is still suspicious though. He would have had to lean forward for this shot. He doesn't seem to, though.

I have to disagree completely with you.

I work with photoshop daily as a graphic and web designer, so do plenty of photoshopping things on and out of photos. But I thought I'd double-check so sent these images to a colleague in Ireland.

He agrees that Thaksin has been photoshopped on to these images.

After that people can believe what they want but if the reverse is found out to be true my hat is off to the person who did the job.

[whiterussian]

Might not see eye to eye on the current conflict but Suthep needs to go.

Just because I am a red 'apologist' doesnt mean i dont want the yellows to win at election!

But only if they do it without getting big brother involved! All this rampant nationalism is so bloody naff. Any side that proclaims it is the only side to 'love' this and that, can frankly kiss my arse and go back to the 1930's! loonies the lot of them.

The reds have a legitimate political objective.. a free vote! ok they are pushing it with rebellion etc.. and its a means to an end etc... but that the way the cookie crumbles.. the alternative is to become a pariah state.

The yellows have no positive objective, they have one objective, so stay in power even if voted out - because they 'love' more. <deleted>.

Yellows need to get the PR machine up to Thaksin standards, or educate the masses why they shouldnt like Thaksin...

Its not easy... thaksin had a run away stock market behind him.. in the right direction... the yellows have the credit crunch.. you cant expect the thai rabble to understand this fully...

but to break out the hysteria of a civil war? w*nkers. Just lose an election and deal with it. Weed out the gangsters. Make some laws that deal with conflict of interest and media ownership etc.

Anyway, bored of this now. The Thais deserve what they get. which will be more soap operas and less progress.

Edited April 27, 2010 by whiterussian

[danc]

Some consensus from both sides of the political divide here on the forum:-

The standard of journalism of The Nation is poor, very poor, dropping....

Suthep Thaugsuban is not a great chap to be in control of anything...regardless of what shirt you wear or don't wear!

[chantorn]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

[jcbangkok]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Beyond a bad back not sure where they would be getting so much strength unless it is lifting all that Thai whiskey in the months they spend not farming. Remember the elite middle class can all afford gyms and personal trainers to sculpt their bodies and of course the best.

But seriously ... when is the fight between the middle class and the poor coming? Right now it is about largely thugs and terrorists who will be going up against a military.

PS. everybody is non-violent until they are.

[agord]

The person asking about the "claimed" doctored photos. Here are links to them...

Thaksin Picture 1

Thaksin Picture 2

Thaksin Picture 3

Thaksin Picture 4

A small but very vocal online community started questioning if the photos are real. But I personally don't see anything funny accept the fact they are date and timed stamped but after looking at other photos posted on his FB page, I can see it is not uncommon for the date/time stamp to be on.

Thank you for the links. Whoever said that they are "photoshop, and a very bad one", please step forward.

I did try to examine them, and admittedly the photos are of far too low resolution to make a definitive judgement, but the lighting does match the overall photo light directions and intensity, and any shadows that could give them out aren't there. The fact that object and background are in focus could be due to large aperture (or is it small aperture? high F), which would match high lighting conditions in which sunny photos were taken.

Only one that I have some doubts about is the photo in front of temple. The photographer clearly was on his/her knees when taking that photo, trying to get the temple in. For this photo to look credible, he would have to have leaned forward, but I am not sure whether he did. Also there is some chromatic aberration on this photo, on the right side of his shirt, which is not on the other photos, but then again, it could just be cheap lens.

Said that, I don't see an evidence of "a bad photoshop job". Obviously a "good photoshop job" of someone having hundreds of photos to choose from and loads of time on his hands could have produced photos that would be indistinguishable from the real ones.

If they are not Photoshop where did the images on the right hand side of this attachment come from? Did somebody remove Thaksin by Photoshoping back in the grains of sand on the beach? Maybe they did, my photoshop skills end at save for web so I can't really judge if that is possible.

reminds me of the gnome from travelocity only a more evil version.

[jcbangkok]

Check out post 366 - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Worsening-Cr...62#entry3544562

I think that's a fairly definitive answer - unless there's some amazing photoshopping going on there

Thank you. As said above, it's not a bad job. Whoever has done it had a huge number of photos to choose from and/or a lot of time to get it done, which would suggest it was done by someone close to him. That would of course beg the question - why?

He's running out of cash to pay for the flights? He's looking different so he doesn't want anyone to see it? Something else?

Whoever did the photoshop job, didn't do it in 5 minutes. So there should be some serious reason behind it.

I take that back. After a close investigation, the photos without Thaksin are a clearly bad photoshop job.

Photo 1: the fence behind him is copied from the right side of the guy in white shirt. The door and part of the background is mirrored from the other side of the door.

Photo 2: Look at the building just left of the signboard. It's considerably lower than the rest of the buildings. It's rubberstamped in.

Photo 3: The patterns on the sand and especially in the wet part of the sand, near the "wave" are mirrored, then smudged.

Therefore - these photos are no proof that the photos with Thaksin are fake. They are merely speaking volumes about how badly someone wishes they were fake to the point of erasing him from the photos.

But fellas, when you depart on such a mission, make sure that you do your job right, or don't do it.

And remove the date stamp for christ's sake. Without blowing the photo up I didn't notice it, but once I clicked on it (unfortunately after sending the above blunder), it was an immediate clue that the photos on the right are tailored.

For me the photo in front of temple is still suspicious though. He would have had to lean forward for this shot. He doesn't seem to, though.

I have to disagree completely with you.

I work with photoshop daily as a graphic and web designer, so do plenty of photoshopping things on and out of photos. But I thought I'd double-check so sent these images to a colleague in Ireland.

He agrees that Thaksin has been photoshopped on to these images.

After that people can believe what they want but if the reverse is found out to be true my hat is off to the person who did the job.

Care to share why he believes this? Certainly he must have some proof or is it just a gut feeling?

What is no doubt is the photos of he is here and he is not here are clearly frauds and you can see trees and shrubs as well as the temple door way area duplicated and or mirrored to fill-in where Thaksin was.

[danc]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Beyond a bad back not sure where they would be getting so much strength unless it is lifting all that Thai whiskey in the months they spend not farming. Remember the elite middle class can all afford gyms and personal trainers to sculpt their bodies and of course the best.

But seriously ... when is the fight between the middle class and the poor coming? Right now it is about largely thugs and terrorists who will be going up against a military.

PS. everybody is non-violent until they are.

I raised this question in another thread or maybe this one - the problem here is the middle classes are so politically apathetic, that it will take at least a generation for them to become enfranchised. It has been suggested that they are as much a part of the problem as the sides actually warring each other. Their mai pen rai attitude has tacitly condoned all sorts of behaviour over the last decades and this ambivalence has created the breakdown that we see erupting to the surface today. The lack of their involvement in the political debate is part of the immaturity of democracy in Thailand. In many the countries around the world, they are an integral part of shaping the agenda, but dare I say it, not here....

Edited April 27, 2010 by danc