Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[jdinasia]

Thailand is STILL not France Jerry.....

and yes the Democrats are still doing more for the rural poor than Thaksin ever did.

[way2muchcoffee]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Family: mother, father, aunty, 4 children are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 24 people all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

And what should they be doing for themselves?

Wow....I have already explained 4 or 5 times that Thailand need a "Town and Country Planning", that Thailand is exactly in the same situation than France 50 years ago and that French have succeeded to reduced their farming population from 50% of the population to 5%.

It must be a very large policy with infrastructure investments, delocalisation of some industries, modernisation of agriculture (subsidised until the Agriculture reaches International Standards), regrouping of small farmers in cooperative/ associations, banking support and siubsidising for equipment of thoose cooperatives....

A fund for bad weather (drought, flood, storms...) in order to garantee an income, progressively converted in a mandatory insurance.

Prices of major agricultural products sustained in order to garantee a minimum income, until the internatrional Standards are met. (Subsidising Agriculture like we have done in USA or in Europe)

A revision of the Thai Budget is required with a large part allocated to this policy. At the end it will cost less than the migration of the northern population in Bangkokian suburban belt with all the costs associated with the mushrooming of the Megapole.

I have also stated than some Thai Academics well aware of the French policy were very impressed.

I have also stated that this must be accompanied by a Decentralisation (Political and Administrative with elected governors and local parliament- similar to the States in USA or the French regions....

I have developped several times all this. Please look in my previous posts.

But what if the other 45% still want to be farmers because they love the rural lifestyle? What to do if they insist on staying on the farm?

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Family: mother, father, aunty, 4 children are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 24 people all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

And what should they be doing for themselves?

Wow....I have already explained 4 or 5 times that Thailand need a "Town and Country Planning", that Thailand is exactly in the same situation than France 50 years ago and that French have succeeded to reduced their farming population from 50% of the population to 5%.

It must be a very large policy with infrastructure investments, delocalisation of some industries, modernisation of agriculture (subsidised until the Agriculture reaches International Standards), regrouping of small farmers in cooperative/ associations, banking support and siubsidising for equipment of thoose cooperatives....

A fund for bad weather (drought, flood, storms...) in order to garantee an income, progressively converted in a mandatory insurance.

Prices of major agricultural products sustained in order to garantee a minimum income, until the internatrional Standards are met. (Subsidising Agriculture like we have done in USA or in Europe)

A revision of the Thai Budget is required with a large part allocated to this policy. At the end it will cost less than the migration of the northern population in Bangkokian suburban belt with all the costs associated with the mushrooming of the Megapole.

I have also stated than some Thai Academics well aware of the French policy were very impressed.

I have also stated that this must be accompanied by a Decentralisation (Political and Administrative with elected governors and local parliament- similar to the States in USA or the French regions....

I have developped several times all this. Please look in my previous posts.

In 1970 the percent of Thai people employed in agriculture was 79.3%. In 1990 it was 66.0%. Today I think its something like 49%. That's an accelerating drop in workers in the agriculture field and of course there's much more rai under cultivation now. That seems to be good progress already with more coming I'm sure.

I agree about minimum wages should be raised in fields other than farming and I'm pleased there is now a workable price stabilizing scheme for rice, but I'm sure you know the government can not guarantee prices substantially different than the world market. Thaksin learned that when he ran up a 70 Billion Baht + bill for diesel subsidies in a few months time.

[Jerrytheyoung]

But what if the other 45% still want to be farmers because they love the rural lifestyle? What to do if they insist on staying on the farm?

this is a legend... Issaners want a nice life like everybody: farming is tough and they do it when they cannot do something else. If they have some good jobs opportunities nearby their village they will choose: like the French, Europeans, Americans have done already long time ago.

Sorry but I have some works to do I leave the forum on this post.

Good Night

[jdinasia]

Paying for advanced communism and social welfare is something that just won't be addressed by the Utopians ... how far are they willing to tax the emerging middle class in Thailand? How will they pay for these answers?

[jcbangkok]

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

Ill be sure to notify Forbes and let them know they are wrong and you know the facts

You may just want to spend a little more time reading.

First of all, you are quoting a year which is clearly numerous years after Thaksin had to divest all his interests but 5%. Second it is clear the person in question's wealth increased 7 fold in just the last year. Third and most importantly this is an article about Royal's wealth around the world and Forbes states:

The magazine noted that because many of the royals inherited their wealth, share it with extended families, and often control it “in trust for their nation or territory,” none of those on its list would qualify for the magazine’s famous annual world billionaires ranking.

I'll concede that I can only back up my claim by showing Forbes showed Thaksin tied as being the richest person in Thailand in 2001 w/1.2 Billion US worth. Click here to see article of richest people in the world by Forbes.

[way2muchcoffee]

But what if the other 45% still want to be farmers because they love the rural lifestyle? What to do if they insist on staying on the farm?

this is a legend... Issaners want a nice life like everybody: farming is tough and they do it when they cannot do something else. If they have some good jobs opportunities nearby their village they will choose: like the French, Europeans, Americans have done already long time ago.

Sorry but I have some works to do I leave the forum on this post.

Good Night

It isn't a legend. My wife would love to be able to live where she grew up. I wouldn't mind it myself as I quite fancy the pace of rural life. But there is no work for me there. There is no work for her there.

Consider the case of the USA. There are no more farming communities in the USA. There is no work in small towns. Almost everyone leaves their small town to find work in the big city after they finish high school or university. Perhaps one child can stick around and take over dad's small business, or work in the auto body shop, or the local cafe or bar. But by and large if you want to make a decent living you cannot live in a small town, and you certainly can't be a farmer.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[bangkoklight]

Bye bye Abhisit! :-) You have twelve more days in office. :-)

[way2muchcoffee]

Bye bye Abhisit! :-) You have twelve more days in office. :-)

That's kind of cryptic. Where does the 12 days come from?

[jcbangkok]

But what if the other 45% still want to be farmers because they love the rural lifestyle? What to do if they insist on staying on the farm?

this is a legend... Issaners want a nice life like everybody: farming is tough and they do it when they cannot do something else. If they have some good jobs opportunities nearby their village they will choose: like the French, Europeans, Americans have done already long time ago.

Sorry but I have some works to do I leave the forum on this post.

Good Night

Americans??? Surely you are not talking about the United States where 80% of the people (in 2000) lived in Urban areas and the percentage continues to grow at a rapid pace since then.

By the way, it is not just the US but the entire globe where more than 1/2 of the worlds population live in urban areas. Do an internet search for "urbanization"

Edit: quick internet search shows in 2005 81% of people in US are residing in cities or their suburbs. Interesting to not that 200 years ago people 95% of the people resided in the country side. Maybe it is time for family farmers to realize the business of family farming is a dying breed in growing and industrialized countries. Nobody is forcing them to stay in the country side or preventing them from moving closer to the city.

I want to live on Malibu beach as do many other people. Should we take over Beverly Hills until Obama agrees to foot the bill for us to live there comfortably?

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[jdinasia]

When will Abhisit step down and leave the country? Abhisit has lost already and the Reds haven't even sent in their troops! Doesn't Abhisit get the message? The Reds are giving him and his government time to stop unnecessary bloodshed. From my source, the Reds have enough to hold out for months more, and they have the means to fight and win - not only in Bangkok. Why do you think the Yellows aren't protesting anymore? I even know wealthy Bangkokians who are leaving the country. They know it's the end.

Months ... 72 hours .... 12 dys?

hmmm I think it may be time to use ignore again .....

[ETatBKK]

this morning just happened I was in the 'hot zone', I saw lot of heavily armed soldiers and they guarded in front of buildings. as a pedestian I walked very close and from their faces I observed :

- they follow the order and they are well 'posted'

- they look a bit tired with their heavy gears ( especially in the sun )

- they look definitely 'bored'

I feel pity for them ! yet I also wonder how well they could perform, how well they could persist their duty ?

hmm . . . they are now the center of the momentum !

[Insight]

Bye bye Abhisit! :-) You have twelve more days in office. :-)

That's kind of cryptic. Where does the 12 days come from?

Given the use of :-) and the lack of credibility through her red vs yellow outlook, I presume it refers to the twelve days of Christmas.

[whiterussian]

[jcbangkok]

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lot of richer in Thailand than Thaksin ever was.

1. Chaleo Yoovidhya
   
2. Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi
   
3. Dhanin Chearavanont & family
   
4. Vichai Maleenont & family
   
5. Somporn Juangroongruangkit & family
   
6. Prayudh Mahagitsiri & family
   
7. Sunsurn Jurangkool & family
   
8. Vanich Chaiyawan & family
   
9. Sasithorn Ratanarak & family
   
10. William Heinecke
    
11. Anant Asavabhokin
    
12. Nishita Shah
    
13. Wanida Chirathivat & family
    
14. Thaksin Shinawatra
    

I am confused ... I cannot be clearer in my original claim that BEFORE Thaksin went into politics he was the richest person in Thailand. I've since provided the Link to Forbes List of Richest People in the World and Thaksin is tied for number 1 in Thailand w/1.2 Billion US Worth.

Not really sure why you are posting peoples worth now and saying it is more than Thaksin had before in terms of trying to debunk my claim.

Bottom line is case is closed. Thaksin was tied for richest person in Thailand in 01. We can get into hidden money and all that but I am willing to accept he shared the title of richest person in Thailand.

[jcbangkok]

And if the Reds don't listen then the will warn again more strongly and The Nation will use an even bigger font and make all the words in the headline red.

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[MaiDong]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Family: mother, father, aunty, 4 children are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 24 people all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

And what should they be doing for themselves?

Wow....I have already explained 4 or 5 times that Thailand need a "Town and Country Planning", that Thailand is exactly in the same situation than France 50 years ago and that French have succeeded to reduced their farming population from 50% of the population to 5%.

It must be a very large policy with infrastructure investments, delocalisation of some industries, modernisation of agriculture (subsidised until the Agriculture reaches International Standards), regrouping of small farmers in cooperative/ associations, banking support and siubsidising for equipment of thoose cooperatives....

A fund for bad weather (drought, flood, storms...) in order to garantee an income, progressively converted in a mandatory insurance.

Prices of major agricultural products sustained in order to garantee a minimum income, until the internatrional Standards are met. (Subsidising Agriculture like we have done in USA or in Europe)

A revision of the Thai Budget is required with a large part allocated to this policy. At the end it will cost less than the migration of the northern population in Bangkokian suburban belt with all the costs associated with the mushrooming of the Megapole.

I have also stated than some Thai Academics well aware of the French policy were very impressed.

I have also stated that this must be accompanied by a Decentralisation (Political and Administrative with elected governors and local parliament- similar to the States in USA or the French regions....

I have developped several times all this. Please look in my previous posts.

I always hear the 70% figure mentioned when referring to the percentage of agricultural workers in Thailand

Wiki places it 42.6%, that's a low figure, perhaps Town and Country Planning isn't such a ridiculous idea

Let's leave it to the Thais to sort out...

[hextac]

And if the Reds don't listen then the will warn again more strongly and The Nation will use an even bigger font and make all the words in the headline red.

Surely they wouldn't be so harsh? Maybe use multicolour letters - that would be really effective.

[jcbangkok]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Obviously we know The Nation and The BKK Post but there seems to be a number of others that at least from time to time have news that I never remember to bookmark. Also, is there any online source of news that has more than just the basic blurbs and actually get into sharing the same type of news that a local Thai paper or site might share?

[ETatBKK]

And if the Reds don't listen then the will warn again more strongly and The Nation will use an even bigger font and make all the words in the headline red.

Surely they wouldn't be so harsh? Maybe use multicolour letters - that would be really effective.

oh . . . with my poor English, I could suggest two more words - TOUGHER, and TOUGHEST . . .

[lannarebirth]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Obviously we know The Nation and The BKK Post but there seems to be a number of others that at least from time to time have news that I never remember to bookmark. Also, is there any online source of news that has more than just the basic blurbs and actually get into sharing the same type of news that a local Thai paper or site might share?

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/thailand.htm

[jcbangkok]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Obviously we know The Nation and The BKK Post but there seems to be a number of others that at least from time to time have news that I never remember to bookmark. Also, is there any online source of news that has more than just the basic blurbs and actually get into sharing the same type of news that a local Thai paper or site might share?

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/thailand.htm

THX

[atyclb]

The Yellow Shirts occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport for only nine days. Why?

They stopped when they won.

They stopped when the courts ruled on the illegality of Thaksin's brother-in-law's government because of election fraud. This legal process was already in the works before shutting down the airport. It is unlikely the authorities would use force to open the airport before hearing the ruling that would solve the problem anyway.

BTW: At the time, few people agreed with the airport closure.

Astonishing, yet one more person on tv capable of lucid intelligent thought. If only it could be contagious.

Thanx

[ozzieman05]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

Of course you felt safe within the Red camp. The Reds weren't shooting slingshots, throwing firecrackers and firing grenades into their own people - they were shooting them OUT- at the other group, civilians and the BTS station.

Your point is made and valid

But you miss the point

There are a few bad apples in the barrel

and it is the red shirt's duty to get rid of those rotten apples

or empty the barrel

It is a fact that the pure reason the red shirts are gathered that allow the problem people to mingle within them

Your point the the army and police are not willing or able to do their job is well noted

They have taken on the job of up holding the law

not interperting it for their own reasons

[ETatBKK]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Nation - www.nationmultimedia.com/home/breakingnews/

Bangkok Post - www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

TNN Thailand ( in Thai ) - www.tnnthailand.com/

Channel 7 ( in Thai, government ) - www.ch7.com

Channel 9 - www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/englishnews.cfm

[LevelHead]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Nation - www.nationmultimedia.com/home/breakingnews/

Bangkok Post - www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

TNN Thailand ( in Thai ) - www.tnnthailand.com/

Channel 7 ( in Thai, government ) - www.ch7.com

Channel 9 - www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/englishnews.cfm

And every one of them is YELLOW.

You will not get "fair" and balanced reporting from any of them, they are slaves to the YELLOW side and put out in general rabid yellow propaganda.

[ETatBKK]

a THAIVISA ad banner on every page - 'bangkok hotels up to 70% off'

who come for the adventure ? to bad to be true ! kind of sad :-(

[hextac]

And every one of them is YELLOW.

You will not get "fair" and balanced reporting from any of them, they are slaves to the YELLOW side and put out in general rabid yellow propaganda.

The Yellow "side" have dissolved into a sea of pinks and "multicolours", anti-Red is the new Yellow.

[ETatBKK]

Can anybody take a minute to share the online links (or names) of online news sources for BKK or National Thailand news?

Nation - www.nationmultimedia.com/home/breakingnews/

Bangkok Post - www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews

TNN Thailand ( in Thai ) - www.tnnthailand.com/

Channel 7 ( in Thai, government ) - www.ch7.com

Channel 9 - www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/englishnews.cfm

And every one of them is YELLOW.

You will not get "fair" and balanced reporting from any of them, they are slaves to the YELLOW side and put out in general rabid yellow propaganda.

yeah, aware of it ! indeed please add some more from different angles, especially those from local Thai perspectives ! I am open for it !!

[whiterussian]

great pic!

http://eurasia.foreignpolicy.com/posts/201...ying_at_the_top

Edited April 27, 2010 by whiterussian