Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[jcbangkok]

If the gov't and/or military goal was only to clear out the red mob, it is VERY foolish to believe they are incapable of doing this in a matter of hours. However, they are doing their best to avoid casualties of those ignorant poor folk whose minds have been brainwashed by the constant fuel of hatred and lies coming from their red leaders.

Kind of ironic they have convinced them to risk their lives largely for a man (once the richest in all Thailand) who doesn't have guts to even face the Thai criminal justice system over a 2-year sentence that would have surely been suspended if he had not fled and agreed to obey the law in the future. In fact, before the court verdict regarding his money the PM said he would forgive him if he expressed remorse.

You shuld evolve a little in your assessment of the situation: red Shirts are no more fighting for Thaksin but for themselves. There are huge problems to fix immediately in northern region. The Country cannot continue its 2 speed development as per the past.

Nor the Red Nor the Democrats can run the Country NOW. We need a transition with very smart people like ANAND at the head. Abhisit has revealed himself as a partisan leader not as a stateman. personnally, I give credit only to Anupong for the correct assessment of the situation and trying to limit the bloodbath.

The pictures of Thaksin at the red mob site would tend to disagree with your argument as would the lack of ANY demands for anything but ousting the current gov't regardless of what if any polices they implement to help the poor. Whose party do you think they want back in control?

[KKvampire]

If the gov't and/or military goal was only to clear out the red mob, it is VERY foolish to believe they are incapable of doing this in a matter of hours. However, they are doing their best to avoid casualties of those ignorant poor folk whose minds have been brainwashed by the constant fuel of hatred and lies coming from their red leaders.

Kind of ironic they have convinced them to risk their lives largely for a man (once the richest in all Thailand) who doesn't have guts to even face the Thai criminal justice system over a 2-year sentence that would have surely been suspended if he had not fled and agreed to obey the law in the future. In fact, before the court verdict regarding his money the PM said he would forgive him if he expressed remorse.

And this is where it all goes wrong.

The Reds are not ignorant.

The Yellows are ignorant when they try to call the Reds "uneducated and ignorant".

The Reds are not "brainwashed", it has been since 2006 non stop brainwashing anti-Thaksin propaganda that has suckered Yellow people in. Anyone who believes the nonsense from the Yellow media and obvious biased Yellow posters on here are the ones who are getting "brainwashed".

Of course all these comments are generalisations. However, are you really suggesting that a majority of Issan people are NOT poorly educated? Do you know what ignorant actually means? Lacking in education or knowledge is a reasonable definition. I would hazard that the better paid Thais in Bangkok typically have benefitted from better (but frankly far from excellent) education. One thing that Abhisit has done is to make education free for all. My wife finished school at 13 like many other Isaan girls. She is certainly not stupid but she IS ignorant in many ways (Don't tell her mind..). If you want to help the poor, help them get proper secondary education and the opportunity to get proper vocational training and the opportunity to get tertiary eduction.

"Ignorant" of facts, pretty common on Thaivisa. The fake call for"democracy" by the Red Anarchists, ANTI THAILAND define the red anarchists and the criminal leadership.

Edited April 27, 2010 by KKvampire

[OzMick]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Tom, have you been for a drive lately? do you think you would appreciate being forced to the side of the road, your vehicle searched and you and your wife interrogated by a mob of drunken thugs? Has it occurred that the reason things are quiet is because most of the local hoods have gone to BKK?

It seems that BKK is separate to the rest of the country, and this has been suggested as a remedy for the current crisis. If Isaan is mostly agricultural industry, and 49% of thailands population work in it to produce 8% of the income (figures from other posts, as remembered), who would this seperation favour? how long would the new North Thailand gov't last when they ask the farmers to pay income tax to provide for their infrastructure costs? But, hey, they would have a vote as often as a mob demanded. One thing for sure, Mr T wouldn't have any involvement, there would be nothing to steal.

One more thought, why is a supposedly dieing man obsessed with money? Could this whole mess be his revenge on the country that caused him to lose face?

[jcbangkok]

I repeat as one example the policy than we have done in my Country for solving the problem of farmers (50% in the 50's and now around 5%0

1- A minister is created for Town and Country planning

2- Important investments are done for supporting development of infrastructures (railways, highways, irrigation, industrial hubs, domestic airline subsidised)

3- Decentralisation of industries whenever possible with taxes incentives and hub policy for creating jobs throughout the territory: the aim is to stabilise the population throughout the Country and to avoid Bangkok suburbs to become gigantic

4- decentralisation of Administration and democracy with elected Governors and local assemblies for managing locally the developpement (better decisions and surveillance locally than when everything is done in Bangkok)

5- agriculture modernised through a wide policy (regrouping of farmers in cooperatives, subsidies until the Agriculture is at International standard, specific banking support). important investments like irrigation, researches.... under schemes developped with Academics (Agriculture Universities).

6- Until the Agriculture is reaching an International Standards rice, rubber... prices supported and subsidised. (like european and US farmers)

7. Education for all and quality guaranteed throughout the territory

8- Immediately a budget equivalent to Ministry of defence one is allocated for supporting this policy.

this is a frame for discussions, I may have forgotten some details

Excellent!

Are you French by chance? You must be from somewhere civilised!

Now, who is most likely to implement such things? The Democrats? the reds? Chart Thai Pattana?

As I've stated before, I think it will take two generations to sort things out. But it is possible.

I think it is most urgent to take action to try and make elections fair:-

1) No gerrymandering

2) Voting to be entirely confidential,

3) parties MUST publish manifestos

4) Voting buying to punished by severe prison term and life long ban from being an MP.

5) Get rid of the laughable requirement for MPs to have a degree (easily obtainable in Khao San Rd I suspect)

Response from reds? What do YOU want?

Thaksin had 6-years to start or implement these things. And do you think the reds are too stupid to know what is good for them? They are not asking for any of these things or have eluded to wanting anything of these things in their year+ aggressions.

[losworld]

I think everyone is aware that Ab suggested a 50 percent debt moratorium for farmers. I have a sneaking suspicion that Thaksin has secretly promised the protesters that they will receive a one hundred percent debt moratorium. Would not surprise me in the least.

[TonyH]

that's it for me i am not going to bother reading anything else in this rubbish tabloid(the nation) what a load of crap from an obvious yellow shirt supporter.

I see it as being a very accurate assessment of the situation.

If some thug tries to stop me in my car he will get run over.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Excellent!

Are you French by chance? You must be from somewhere civilised!

Now, who is most likely to implement such things? The Democrats? the reds? Chart Thai Pattana?

As I've stated before, I think it will take two generations to sort things out. But it is possible.

I think it is most urgent to take action to try and make elections fair:-

1) No gerrymandering

2) Voting to be entirely confidential,

3) parties MUST publish manifestos

4) Voting buying to punished by severe prison term and life long ban from being an MP.

5) Get rid of the laughable requirement for MPs to have a degree (easily obtainable in Khao San Rd I suspect)

Response from reds? What do YOU want?

I have personnally meet general Chavalit few times, I do know that in 1997 he has been trapped by his Ministry of Finances and I do know that he is a man taking on him the errors of his subordinates.

Some people from his entourage told me that my ideas were quite close from Chavalit ones.

I will add for elections; candidates must present their campaign budget which has to be limited in order to permit poor people to be elected. Also part of the budget reimbursed if the Candidate reaches 5% of votes.

[sealy]

Although it has always been clear to me that Thaksin and the majority of reds are against the Royal Family (just look at the lack of His Majesty's pictures in the mob and those of Thaksin) but I am sure this chart (posted on flicker) is not going to help the average Thai understand the govt's claimed conspiracy.

Where is the "Assembly Of The Poor" in this picture? Aren't they supporting the fight for equality?

taking a chart out of flicker and brushing off thais as stupid and not smart enough to understand the chart is like saying the thais were smart enough to "trick" you into making you come to thailand to understand the thai language , like your chart shows. for the sake of the thais, you should not overstay amongst "stupid" thais and demean yourself.

so, jcbangkok, please explain the chart to us not- so- smart farangs what this chart is all about.

perhaps being non-thais, you would not think we cannot understand you, right?

of course you can think otherwise about us for after all , in another post, you were ranting away how stupid thais are mostly - especially those who do not see your points.

may i venture to ask:

1. when was your last time in thailand that you have a relationship with a thai that blossoms?

2.you do not have any attention-defic9t disorders problem, do you?

3.you are not running out of funds in thailand, are you?

4. your last tilak from isaan did not run away from you, did she, assuming you have a tilak before and have sufficient funds.

whatever your prblems may be, there are enough ads here in tv where you can locate one or two professionals who can help you out.

don't vent your frustration on the poor thais,

like you said, they are poor, hungry and uneducated.

the poor thais do not have your "superior" knowledge.

maybe some farangs are not so clever like you too.

remember an age old teaching?

when you see a stranger falling down, would you not stop what you are doing and rush forward to pick him up?

or, would you shove him down and make sure he stays down so that you can stay up?

pray tell which one is you.

Edited April 27, 2010 by sealy

[kimincm]

Although it has always been clear to me that Thaksin and the majority of reds are against the Royal Family (just look at the lack of His Majesty's pictures in the mob and those of Thaksin) but I am sure this chart (posted on flicker) is not going to help the average Thai understand the govt's claimed conspiracy.

They've got pictures of their King

[hammered]

I don't know how any westerner can actually support the red protestors with how they are acting now.

Red supporters condemn the government, the army, the elite and the yellows. There are some good reasons to condemn these groups for their actions in the past.

But you support the lawlessness of the reds.

You support them shutting down a city of 10 million people.

You support them searching individuals going about their daily lives.

You support them shutting down roads around the country.

You support them bringing down the economy which will affect all Thais, and especially the poorer ones, for years to come.

Is this the sort of country that you want to live in?

A country where a small minority can do anything that they want? I am not talking about the grass roots red supporters, the poor farmers, the factory workers, the construction workers.

I am talking about the thugs searching people, searching cars, blockading highways. If they can do this now, what will they be able to do if their leaders control the government, the police and the army?

Support the poor. Condemn the elite.

But don't support the thugs ruining the country.

Pretty easy really...I sympathize with the red cause because I live in Isan and every day I see the deprived lives of these poor farmers breaking their backs in the field for a pittance...when I contrast that the to life of luxury and privilege of the corrupt elite it makes me vomit...as a farang I'm obliged to keep out of it directly and to avoid discussing it with Thai people.

So be precise. Tell us what policies you would like to see such that poor farmers can do better? Look ahead, if you get a red led government what do you want see them do? Please don't say you want another village handout. If your village is the same as mine then you will know that was massively abused with most money going to pay off gambling debts at usurious interest rates. Not many new tractors were funded or vocational training fees paid.........

I repeat as one example the policy than we have done in my Country for solving the problem of farmers (50% in the 50's and now around 5%0

1- A minister is created for Town and Country planning

2- Important investments are done for supporting development of infrastructures (railways, highways, irrigation, industrial hubs, domestic airline subsidised)

3- Decentralisation of industries whenever possible with taxes incentives and hub policy for creating jobs throughout the territory: the aim is to stabilise the population throughout the Country and to avoid Bangkok suburbs to become gigantic

4- decentralisation of Administration and democracy with elected Governors and local assemblies for managing locally the developpement (better decisions and surveillance locally than when everything is done in Bangkok)

5- agriculture modernised through a wide policy (regrouping of farmers in cooperatives, subsidies until the Agriculture is at International standard, specific banking support). important investments like irrigation, researches.... under schemes developped with Academics (Agriculture Universities).

6- Until the Agriculture is reaching an International Standards rice, rubber... prices supported and subsidised. (like european and US farmers)

7. Education for all and quality guaranteed throughout the territory

8- Immediately a budget equivalent to Ministry of defence one is allocated for supporting this policy.

this is a frame for discussions, I may have forgotten some details

Interesting a few comments:

With decentralisation the power of the local lords needs to be broken or they will just cream off huge percentages of budgets as they do now. Bangkok could quadruple the amount sent to areas but if that was creamed and the people told BKK never sends money, which to some extent happens now, then it gioes nowhere. Education is the key but is a long term solution. Thailand is still very very feudal and mostly so in rural areas where certain families control everything. I dont know how to deal with that problem to be honest but unless it is diappeared thing swill be very very hard to change. Education over a long period. A lot of the rest I agree with

Maybe if you had elected governors (interestingly the only party who ever proposed this was the Dems some time back) who would be local lords for a while but the central government actually inforemd the poor in each province exactly how much money or per capita was being sent their way that would educate or at least mitigate against local corruption which in many cases right now is far worse than central corruption. An independent auditor general or watchdog in each province would be needed. For all this to work best you actually need some adversarial stuff between local and central government but most of the itme you probably wouldnt have that and they would work hand in glove in the old corrupt ways.

The budgets for the rural areas have atcually increased over time but so has the leakage at local level

Thailands feudal system may be a lot less in towns these days but it is still very strong in the rural areas and will continue to haunt for a long time yet and while the local lords can siphon off funds and then just blame BKK for never sending any and people remain poorly edcuated and reliant on the lord it is hard to see change.

Another idea mooted is more cooperatives which in some areas have given farmers increased bargaining powers and even allowed them to bypass local control.

[bangkoklight]

Once again, the standard argument of a red supporter:

"The Yellows did it and I condemn them for doing it, and now the reds are doing it but it's OK because the Yellows did it."

And the reds don't want the MPs to be elected to be representative of the whole country, they want MPs to be elected to be representative of what the Reds want.

???

Just another example of a Yellow supporter not getting the point.

When have I said the Reds are doing this because the Yellows did it? The Reds are on the streets because they want the return of a democratically elected government and the return of the People's Constitution.

In addition, I said that it is not surprising that if the Reds are faced against double standards, then a few members of the Reds might show thug-like behaviour. And why didn't the Yellows show thug-like behaviour? Because they got what they wanted after 9 days.

[zorm999]

If the gov't and/or military goal was only to clear out the red mob, it is VERY foolish to believe they are incapable of doing this in a matter of hours. However, they are doing their best to avoid casualties of those ignorant poor folk whose minds have been brainwashed by the constant fuel of hatred and lies coming from their red leaders.

Kind of ironic they have convinced them to risk their lives largely for a man (once the richest in all Thailand) who doesn't have guts to even face the Thai criminal justice system over a 2-year sentence that would have surely been suspended if he had not fled and agreed to obey the law in the future. In fact, before the court verdict regarding his money the PM said he would forgive him if he expressed remorse.

You shuld evolve a little in your assessment of the situation: red Shirts are no more fighting for Thaksin but for themselves. There are huge problems to fix immediately in northern region. The Country cannot continue its 2 speed development as per the past.

Nor the Red Nor the Democrats can run the Country NOW. We need a transition with very smart people like ANAND at the head. Abhisit has revealed himself as a partisan leader not as a stateman. personnally, I give credit only to Anupong for the correct assessment of the situation and trying to limit the bloodbath.

I really wish I could believe that the reds are actually fighting for equality and fairness. I know they said this at the beginning of their protests, and more than likely some of the "everyday" red shirts have this as their main objective. But I cannot believe that this is the red leaders' agenda. The fact that their ONLY real demand now is for the govt to resign suggests that this is really all they care about.

I am all for more equality in all societies, but most countries in the world are evidence that this is very rare, and it's very unlikely to happen in Thailand. The simple reason is this: when people get into government they have to pander to the powerful people in society - ie: the wealthy. Thaksin clearly did some good things for the Isaan people, but he obviously didn't do enough because they are still the poorest region in the country. This government has not done enough either and no doubt the next government won't do enough either. Add to this the fact that Thai politics is fairly corrupt and this is a recipe for a continuation of what's gone before.

Equality would be nice and is worth fighting for. But in my mind, the fact that the red short leaders only care about a new election means their priority is power, not equality.

[jdinasia]

People are still missing the real issues that in much of the country (particularly Isaan and much of the north) that there are political machines that control local politics. Thaksin managed to buy off many of these groups for a period of time, but they have since abandoned Thaksin. These groups are out for themselves and the folks that deliver them votes and control in their local areas.

Jerry is still missing that the current government has done more for the plight of the rural poor in 15 months than Thaksin did in 5 years, He is also glossing ovr the violence of the red movement and the violent rhetoric of the red leadership. Apparently anything is acceptable to the reds on this board even when they scream about the past and things that other groups did or may have done. Quit with the "double standards" folks ... if it is a BAD thing then it is a bad thing! What happened in the past does not change that the violent red mob is a BAD thing.

[Koh_Falang]

When a political group is up against double standards, does it not make you wonder why some members of that group become so-called thugs? If you were passionate about free and fair elections and the return of the People’s Constitution, would you sit down in a circle and sing songs? Come on!

And are the army thugs too? Why not? You cannot say they represent a democratically elected government. The army represent the remnants of a military coup and a constitution drawn up by the military!

So you are saying that its ok to become a thug because you've been down trodden... really?? is that what you are really advocating???

[OzMick]

Is this the sort of democracy we can expect under a red government?

Freedom of speech unless it is against us.

Red-shirts Form Special Units to Counter Multi Colored Shirt Group

The red-shirt core leaders have revealed that special units have been set up to 'counter' the movements of anti-red groups that are calling themselves the 'multi-colored shirt' group.

The largest anti-red shirt civic movement is being led by Dr. Tul Sittisomwong.

-- Tan Network 2010-04-27

I suppose it worked under Thaksin ... why not continue.

special units - might that be code for a M-79 squad?

[jcbangkok]

Although it has always been clear to me that Thaksin and the majority of reds are against the Royal Family (just look at the lack of His Majesty's pictures in the mob and those of Thaksin) but I am sure this chart (posted on flicker) is not going to help the average Thai understand the govt's claimed conspiracy.

Where is the "Assembly Of The Poor" in this picture? Aren't they supporting the fight for equality?

taking a chart out of flicker and brushing off thais as stupid and not smart enough to understand the chart is like saying the thais were smart enough to "trick" you into making you come to thailand to learn and translate the thai language , like your chart shows. for the sake of the thais, you should not overstay amongst "stupid" thais and demean yourself.

so, jcbangkok, please explain the chart to us not- so- smart farangs what this chart is all about.

perhaps being non-thais, you would not think we cannot understand you, right?

of course you can think otherwise about us for after all , in another post, tou were ranting away how stupid thais are mostly - especially those who do see your points.

may i venture to ask:

1. when was your last time in thailand that you have a relationship with a thai that blossoms?

2.you do not any attention-defici9t disorders problem, do you?

3.you are not running out of funds in thailand, are you?

4. your last tilak from isaan did not run away from you, did she, assuming you have a tilak before and have sufficient funds.

whatever your prblems may be, there are enough ads here in tv where you can locate one or two professionals who can help you out.

don't vent your frustration on the poor thais,

like you said, they are poor, hungry and uneducated.

the poor thais do not have your "superior" knowledge.

Wow, what an odd take on my post which any rational person would have interpreted to mean it is complicated chart which actually just shows a bunch of lines connecting people in a way that Fox News' Glen Beck promotes his conspiracy theories. Also, I never said anything about Thais being stupid nor did I insinuate I was smarter than anybody and as well I live in Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

I repeat as one example the policy than we have done in my Country for solving the problem of farmers (50% in the 50's and now around 5%0

1- A minister is created for Town and Country planning

2- Important investments are done for supporting development of infrastructures (railways, highways, irrigation, industrial hubs, domestic airline subsidised)

3- Decentralisation of industries whenever possible with taxes incentives and hub policy for creating jobs throughout the territory: the aim is to stabilise the population throughout the Country and to avoid Bangkok suburbs to become gigantic

4- decentralisation of Administration and democracy with elected Governors and local assemblies for managing locally the developpement (better decisions and surveillance locally than when everything is done in Bangkok)

5- agriculture modernised through a wide policy (regrouping of farmers in cooperatives, subsidies until the Agriculture is at International standard, specific banking support). important investments like irrigation, researches.... under schemes developped with Academics (Agriculture Universities).

6- Until the Agriculture is reaching an International Standards rice, rubber... prices supported and subsidised. (like european and US farmers)

7. Education for all and quality guaranteed throughout the territory

8- Immediately a budget equivalent to Ministry of defence one is allocated for supporting this policy.

this is a frame for discussions, I may have forgotten some details

Excellent!

Are you French by chance? You must be from somewhere civilised!

Now, who is most likely to implement such things? The Democrats? the reds? Chart Thai Pattana?

As I've stated before, I think it will take two generations to sort things out. But it is possible.

I think it is most urgent to take action to try and make elections fair:-

1) No gerrymandering

2) Voting to be entirely confidential,

3) parties MUST publish manifestos

4) Voting buying to punished by severe prison term and life long ban from being an MP.

5) Get rid of the laughable requirement for MPs to have a degree (easily obtainable in Khao San Rd I suspect)

Response from reds? What do YOU want?

Thaksin had 6-years to start or implement these things. And do you think the reds are too stupid to know what is good for them? They are not asking for any of these things or have eluded to wanting anything of these things in their year+ aggressions.

Actually Abhisit is trying to implement these things. The thing Jerry left out is accountability which the government requires but that doesn't suit local leaders. Hence the "Red Shirts". ALL this money gets drained away locally without accountability to CENTRAL government. Local government is an incestuous mix of families involved in a govt/business military partnership. There's no "trickle down". You haven't noticed the rice millers, rice storage, rice "middlemen are up in arms since this government has instituted new policies? Why do you think that is?

[craigt3365]

I think everyone is aware that Ab suggested a 50 percent debt moratorium for farmers. I have a sneaking suspicion that Thaksin has secretly promised the protesters that they will receive a one hundred percent debt moratorium. Would not surprise me in the least.

You are correct. Every village has been promised 1MM baht when he comes back to power! Heard this via the coconut line a few weeks ago. I can bet the village headmen are already trying to figure out how to spend their "fair" share....

[bangkoklight]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

[Jerrytheyoung]

Thaksin had 6-years to start or implement these things. And do you think the reds are too stupid to know what is good for them? They are not asking for any of these things or have eluded to wanting anything of these things in their year+ aggressions.

This is the traditional way of yellow shirt/democrat reply...not very constructive.

1- I am not a Thaksinist

2- Thaksin is the past, you have to update your clock

3- When you enter in a government, you take over whatever is the situation. 16 months after Abhisit is in Power: he has full responsability. He should have assessed the situation and implemented the solutions. We used to say 100 days for starting a new policy, 6 months to start implementation. We should be in the first year of this new policy.....

4- To be Minister is to be at the service of his Nation, not only to get a nice salary, honours and have his picture everywhere (Even if you are nice looking).

Abhisit = 16 months = insuficient results= partisan leadership, ignoring 42% of the polpulation, focusing only on Bankokian Upper/Midddle Class

[elcent]

tukky_nt: An undated Thaksin's interveiw posted Sun on v.ifeng.com:http://bit.ly/cuHpur

Tue Apr 27 2010 12:08:48 GMT+0700 (SE Asia Standard Time)

WATCH NERO SMILE!!!

HE'S SO HAPPY WITH THE DAMAGE.

BUT ON ONE THING HE'S RIGHT. KASIT IS SICK (THE OTHER VID). BUT THEN, EVERY BROKEN WATCH IS RIGHT TWO TIMES A DAY.

[OzMick]

I think that if you had read the BIG RED PRINT at the top of the page that says it's an OPINION piece

Yeah, opinion of the owner...,

and the owner is not allowed an opinion unless it is the same as yours, of course?

[bkkjames]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

Well because the reds on here flash the airport thing whenever they run out of excuses for the current situation. surely you can recognize?

[jcbangkok]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

Actually it does since the people of the party, that at minimum encouraged the execution of thousands of Thais without trial or even charges, is the same one the reds support / are part of.

[Jerrytheyoung]

People are still missing the real issues that in much of the country (particularly Isaan and much of the north) that there are political machines that control local politics. Thaksin managed to buy off many of these groups for a period of time, but they have since abandoned Thaksin. These groups are out for themselves and the folks that deliver them votes and control in their local areas.

Jerry is still missing that the current government has done more for the plight of the rural poor in 15 months than Thaksin did in 5 years, He is also glossing ovr the violence of the red movement and the violent rhetoric of the red leadership. Apparently anything is acceptable to the reds on this board even when they scream about the past and things that other groups did or may have done. Quit with the "double standards" folks ... if it is a BAD thing then it is a bad thing! What happened in the past does not change that the violent red mob is a BAD thing.

Once more the past is the past. Northern Population is waking up you cannot continue the modern slavery with a ratio of one to 69 between the 20% richest people and the 20% poorest people of Thailand (Bank of Thailand 2006 Source). Wake up... do some concessions urgently... They are waking up... if not you will loose a lot more....that is the lesson of History.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[sealy]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

"thaksin ordered the killing of thousands of innocent people..."??????????????

is there an archive where we can research on this killings???????????

"thousands ", eh?

and, "all innocents" , too

holy toledo, oh jesus, oh budhha, oh-my-god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where is the the records, photographs, evidence, wwitnesses,etc.etc.

[KireB]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

Seems quite relevant to me! You keep emphasizing on double standards! Selective retention of facts have blurred your vision recently? A lot of Reds have that, I've noticed!

Edited April 27, 2010 by KireB

[Netfan]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

And then why do you constantly bring in the airport takeover- according to your logic, that would have nothing to do with the Red anarchy going on now.

[bangkoklight]

Well because the reds on here flash the airport thing whenever they run out of excuses for the current situation. surely you can recognize?

The besiege of Suvarnabhumi Airport IS relevant here because it shows the double standards in place with regards to each side protesting about opposition governments, coups, elections, corruption etc. The Yellows are once again distracting from the main issues, of course. :-(

[Neurath]

The pro-government Yellows harp on about the thug-like nature of the Reds. If the Reds are indeed thugs, who created them? Are the PAD thugs? Why not? Is it because they never had time to become thugs? Is it because they got wanted they wanted within 9 days the last time they protested? The "thug" never came out in them.

The PAD benefited from a coup in 2006, and in 2008 they were able to persuade the courts to change the democratically elected government to an engineered one in just 9 days by besieging an airport. The Reds don't want another coup and they don't want the courts to engineer another government. That's why they are protesting! The Reds want fresh elections and they will remain on the streets until they achieve this goal.

Unlike the Yellows who don't mind a coup or a rearrangement of parliamentary seats to favour them, the Reds just want fair elections where the MPs elected are representative of the people of the whole country. Why is this concept so difficult for the pro-government Yellows to understand?

Agree. Another interesting thing was Abhisit said that Somchai should resign when the yellow protests were taking place, however, when faced with a similar situation he refuses to budge. The PM has zero integrity.

yes indeed............see him and hear him do that here !

Tit/Tat/Tit/Tat/Tit/Tat.

Oh well, and then Government Spokesman Nattawut said this:

“The police must take action such as using water trucks. The PAD is violating the law and liberty of the people. Both the police and military must not think that they cannot do it. It would be unusual if the military would do nothing in this situation,’’ The Nation