Should You Really Be Here On A Budget?

[vicco]

This is actually a topic that concerns me when seeing young expats in Thailand. And by young, I mean under 40. Unless you've already made a bundle and are simply enjoying life here, then you are squandering your most productive earning years. Let's face it, if you've come to Thailand with little to no net worth, you're going to be in trouble later in life. It's rare to see a working expat who's making enough to actually save for the future (unless you're working for a foreign company/govt). And since no job will qualify you for a pension, you're pretty much on your own to build a nestegg of some sort. It's rather foolish to be working here at age 28 when you can be working in the west doing the same job for probably 10 times the pay. Maybe some of these young guys don't look past tomorrow, but I'd never come here to live unless I was already financially sound. A no-brainer, in my mind. Foreigners don't become rich in Thailand unless they bring it with them!

I aqree 100%,the reason for my post.I retired at 46 and am set for life.

This is a very intrusive question and feel free to ignore. But can i ask ball park figure of your retirement income per month ? I m thinking about early retirement but am not sure what sort of figure to aim for. I have one friend who recently retired at 45 and his retirement plan consists of rental income from one property in Bangkok at 30,000 baht per month. Seems very risky and impossible for me to do, but hes happy.

I know a Dutch guy who was disabled while in the Army. His disability pension is only about 20,000 baht, but he is married, has a son, and has been living here happily for over 10 years now.

I couldn't personally live on that, but it is possible.

Wonder what kind of visa he has. You need at least 40K to qualify for a "marriage" visa and 60K for a "retirement" visa......otherwise you are doing visa runs all the time...and that is not much fun. You could live on a lot less than 20K if you don't mind doing without just about everything that westerners take for granted. I have met guys who spend over 150K a month and don't even like it here, and others who are very happy on 50K-60K...which actually seems to be about average. Thailand is not for everyone, and everyone is not suitable for Thailand..regardless of income. You can waste money just about anywhere and you can make yourself miserable anywhere. There is a minimum threshold of income however which will determine to a large extent your quality of life in Thailand (or anywhere else). Those who fall below the threshold are surviving more than living.

[robblok]

Im living quite happily on 27K BHT a month including my rent in BKK.....

easy......

I dont have a leach though, could be different if I was paying for company...

You hit the nail right on its head. Many guys have to pay for company especially the older crowd that want a 20 something girl. Saves a lot of money if you don't have to do that or have a girl that brings in some cash and share the costs.

[sgunn65]

I quote Berkshire, "Foreigners don't become rich in Thailand unless they bring it with them". Never heard of Bill Heinicke? I also personally know someone who came here with 700 dollars and is now worth half a billion.

Whilst nowhere near that league I am doing very well here.

The other thing to remember is most people don't get rich in their own country!

[bonobo]

I know a Dutch guy who was disabled while in the Army. His disability pension is only about 20,000 baht, but he is married, has a son, and has been living here happily for over 10 years now.

I couldn't personally live on that, but it is possible.

Wonder what kind of visa he has. You need at least 40K to qualify for a "marriage" visa and 60K for a "retirement" visa......otherwise you are doing visa runs all the time...and that is not much fun. You could live on a lot less than 20K if you don't mind doing without just about everything that westerners take for granted. I have met guys who spend over 150K a month and don't even like it here, and others who are very happy on 50K-60K...which actually seems to be about average. Thailand is not for everyone, and everyone is not suitable for Thailand..regardless of income. You can waste money just about anywhere and you can make yourself miserable anywhere. There is a minimum threshold of income however which will determine to a large extent your quality of life in Thailand (or anywhere else). Those who fall below the threshold are surviving more than living.

That is actually a good question, and one I never thought to ask him.  He is way too young to even rate a retirement visa (he got injured when he was a new recruit and has been here ever since, so he is only in his 30's.)

[sarahsbloke]

inflation is going to rise rapidly as the problems persist.

As far as I can see there is almost no inflation in Thailand (over the last 10 years anyway)

Changes in exchange rates is not inflation.

Mathes teacher here at a university 80k per month.

University lecturers in the UK earn less than teachers in the UK.

But what about a maths teacher at a university in UK?

or a maths teacher at a regular school here?

Let's compare the apples to get a proper perspective.

[Chaimai]

My retirement(pension) is 120,000 baht a month,investments another 120,000 baht a month,I can live on one or the other.I never spend my monthly income no matter how hard I try=====PARADISE.

Not rocket-science. It is no coincidence that the retirement visa income requirements are for 65,000 p.m.

[Berkshire]

I quote Berkshire, "Foreigners don't become rich in Thailand unless they bring it with them". Never heard of Bill Heinicke? I also personally know someone who came here with 700 dollars and is now worth half a billion.

Whilst nowhere near that league I am doing very well here.

The other thing to remember is most people don't get rich in their own country!

So you bring up some rare exceptions to prove your point....which is what exactly? If you're going to advise young expats to come to Thailand with nothing but the shirt on their backs because they're sure to strike it rich, then I respectfully disagree. And regarding your comment that "most people don't get rich in their own country!," true. But a guy who's worked all his life and now has a US$3,000/month pension will do quite well in Thailand, don't you think? Much better than most places in the states.

[rgs2001uk]

I know a Dutch guy who was disabled while in the Army. His disability pension is only about 20,000 baht, but he is married, has a son, and has been living here happily for over 10 years now.

I couldn't personally live on that, but it is possible.

Wonder what kind of visa he has. You need at least 40K to qualify for a "marriage" visa and 60K for a "retirement" visa......otherwise you are doing visa runs all the time...and that is not much fun. You could live on a lot less than 20K if you don't mind doing without just about everything that westerners take for granted. I have met guys who spend over 150K a month and don't even like it here, and others who are very happy on 50K-60K...which actually seems to be about average. Thailand is not for everyone, and everyone is not suitable for Thailand..regardless of income. You can waste money just about anywhere and you can make yourself miserable anywhere. There is a minimum threshold of income however which will determine to a large extent your quality of life in Thailand (or anywhere else). Those who fall below the threshold are surviving more than living.

That is actually a good question, and one I never thought to ask him. He is way too young to even rate a retirement visa (he got injured when he was a new recruit and has been here ever since, so he is only in his 30's.)

If, the guy is married, he doesnt need an income of 40,000 baht per month.

The option of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank is also open to him.

The guy may well have a Thai bank account with 400k baht in it which he shows to immigration every year, and spends his monthly 20k baht pension every month.

No need for border runs.

[samuibeachcomber]

This is actually a topic that concerns me when seeing young expats in Thailand. And by young, I mean under 40. Unless you've already made a bundle and are simply enjoying life here, then you are squandering your most productive earning years. Let's face it, if you've come to Thailand with little to no net worth, you're going to be in trouble later in life. It's rare to see a working expat who's making enough to actually save for the future (unless you're working for a foreign company/govt). And since no job will qualify you for a pension, you're pretty much on your own to build a nestegg of some sort. It's rather foolish to be working here at age 28 when you can be working in the west doing the same job for probably 10 times the pay. Maybe some of these young guys don't look past tomorrow, but I'd never come here to live unless I was already financially sound. A no-brainer, in my mind. Foreigners don't become rich in Thailand unless they bring it with them!

have been saying the same as you on many a TV topic.In the main thailand is best suited to retirees that have already made their money and who now live off investments and govt. pensions.I tis indeed a"no brainer"

[Chaimai]

have been saying the same as you on many a TV topic.In the main thailand is best suited to retirees that have already made their money and who now live off investments and govt. pensions.I tis indeed a"no brainer"

All my life I have never had enough money.

This is why I have a budget.

The times in my life when I have had least money is when I have exceeded my budget.

When my income was at it's greatest point, it coincided with the biggest excess over budget and my largest overdraft.

[vicco]

I know a Dutch guy who was disabled while in the Army. His disability pension is only about 20,000 baht, but he is married, has a son, and has been living here happily for over 10 years now.

I couldn't personally live on that, but it is possible.

Wonder what kind of visa he has. You need at least 40K to qualify for a "marriage" visa and 60K for a "retirement" visa......otherwise you are doing visa runs all the time...and that is not much fun. You could live on a lot less than 20K if you don't mind doing without just about everything that westerners take for granted. I have met guys who spend over 150K a month and don't even like it here, and others who are very happy on 50K-60K...which actually seems to be about average. Thailand is not for everyone, and everyone is not suitable for Thailand..regardless of income. You can waste money just about anywhere and you can make yourself miserable anywhere. There is a minimum threshold of income however which will determine to a large extent your quality of life in Thailand (or anywhere else). Those who fall below the threshold are surviving more than living.

That is actually a good question, and one I never thought to ask him. He is way too young to even rate a retirement visa (he got injured when he was a new recruit and has been here ever since, so he is only in his 30's.)

If, the guy is married, he doesnt need an income of 40,000 baht per month.

The option of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank is also open to him.

The guy may well have a Thai bank account with 400k baht in it which he shows to immigration every year, and spends his monthly 20k baht pension every month.

No need for border runs.

It is certainly possible but seems a bit unlikely. People on incomes that low don't usually have much in the bank....but only he can answer the question. In any case I wish the guy good luck.

[Hern]

You might have a lot of money but your thinly disguised attempt to tell everyone just how much shows a lack of class. I know which has more real value in the world do you?

[hawthorne]

If you have a good profession and you value time off, living life. You work only when you need and take the remainder off. YOu have you whole life to work but you are not always young. Depends on your values and what you find important to you. Not everyone wants to live to be 90 if the last 25 are semi invalid state. Life your life the way you want. If it is buring out young but having a hel_l of a time then go for it. To each there own.

[IanForbes]

This is actually a topic that concerns me when seeing young expats in Thailand. And by young, I mean under 40. Unless you've already made a bundle and are simply enjoying life here, then you are squandering your most productive earning years. Let's face it, if you've come to Thailand with little to no net worth, you're going to be in trouble later in life. It's rare to see a working expat who's making enough to actually save for the future (unless you're working for a foreign company/govt). And since no job will qualify you for a pension, you're pretty much on your own to build a nestegg of some sort. It's rather foolish to be working here at age 28 when you can be working in the west doing the same job for probably 10 times the pay. Maybe some of these young guys don't look past tomorrow, but I'd never come here to live unless I was already financially sound. A no-brainer, in my mind. Foreigners don't become rich in Thailand unless they bring it with them!

Good point. I've seen it many times during my stay in Thailand. I know at least three men in that group.

It's the old story... Quote: How do you make a small fortune in Thailand? Answer... You start with a big fortune.

I'm retired and live on a small pension that I subsidize with writing and painting. I can easily stay within my budget.

[canuckamuck]

My question to the OP is why does he care what other people are doing.

Personally I think that there are opportunities here that don't exist back home, there is money to be made here. I make use of those opportunities occasionally.

I was self employed the majority of my rat race life, and I quit the race at 37. Considering that I might live another 40 years, I do need to live on a budget. But at least I am not trying to keep up with the Jones's anymore. Successful living requires enjoying what you do and what you have; I have that here. I have zero debt, a car, a couple of motorbikes, live in a nice house and have a great family and we are all in good health.

My brother has a big salary, big investments, big house, a garage full of expensive toys, and he never seems to have 5 minutes to breath. I guess he will enjoy himself when he is old.

[sgunn65]

It seems to me that there is an underlying theme to this thread. Is it possible that the older residents amongst us who have lived in a world of secure pensions and retired here possibly see younger people and wish they had done the move when they were younger?

I am caught between the two groups and I know that when I see young people here I often wish I had come here in my twenties and thirties.

I am not sure that this is about budget but more about a little envy!! Maybe I am wrong and the elder ex pats are genuinely concerned about the fiscal state of young people and only have their best interests at heart!!

We now live in a world where we can take nothing for granted. State pensions are not as secure and the chances are that before I reach 65 the Government will raise the age for retiring. Company and private pensions are not at all secure either. So why worry about your old age?

I really believe that we get one shot at this life so we should make the most of it. You come here young and have a great time then it goes wrong. What is the worst that will happen? YOu go home and start again with a sack full of memories and experience of living in a different culture.

Or, like a good friend of mine, you work all your life for a company and then get made redundant at 58 and find that your pension has financed the CEO's private plane! At 66 he is still working because of that. He is angry and bitter that his old age is not going to be what he thought it would be.

I am one of the lucky ones who have succeeded here but I also am mindful that just as success can come it can also leave. And if that happens I will have to return to my home country and start again. But I will have had an experience that I won't forget. I hope it doesn't happen but I am glad I came here even though I came here without security or a pension.

TO the young I say this: Take a chance you only live once. To the old I say this: Enjoy your retirement you have earnt it. TO everyone I say this: THere is enough to go round and we can all have a little slice of the pie.

[bow]

People are different. some people don't mind living on 20.000 / month, other people can't survive on 200.000 / month.

You need to do a visa run every five months (non-imm O, 3 + 2 months) if you are married with no income.

[Gladiator]

As far as I can see there is almost no inflation in Thailand (over the last 10 years anyway)

Really!

Take one commodity - The Bangkok Post Newspaper:

2001 Cost - 20 Baht

2010 Cost - 30 Baht

Unless my maths is wrong - isn't that a 50% increase in price?

inflation is going to rise rapidly as the problems persist.

As far as I can see there is almost no inflation in Thailand (over the last 10 years anyway)

Changes in exchange rates is not inflation.

Mathes teacher here at a university 80k per month.

University lecturers in the UK earn less than teachers in the UK.

But what about a maths teacher at a university in UK?

or a maths teacher at a regular school here?

Let's compare the apples to get a proper perspective.

[GuestHouse]

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound nought and six, result misery"

Charles Dickens, David Copperfield, 1849

English novelist (1812 - 1870)

And the above rule applies no matter what the annual income is - big or small.

We all live on a budget, some just imagine themselves not living by the same rules as the rest of us.

[Loz]

Earning 40,000 baht a month seems a waste too when one can make more money in Uk or Europe.Who wants to work for 200 gbp a week totaly crazy

Maybe someone who has already provided for their future? Radical concept, I know.

Some people figure out early that retirement is related to income, not age.

If you can afford to do something you love, you'd be a fool not to.

[dmax]

Everyone's on a budget, be it large or be it small!

The secret is to live within one's means!

David

easier said than done, virtually impossible for me when in pattaya

[BigWheelMan]

I’m sure the majority of us who moved to Thailand, well planned their future here, foreseeable and long term.

But over the last few years’ things have taken a downturn that even the wisest of us could not have predicted.

Massive decreases in the bank exchange rates, crap bank interest rates, crashing worldwide economies, hyped up consumer prices and now the political crisis.

If this continues on with no end in site, than sooner or later we will all be living on a strict budget and struggling to make ends meet.

These are exception times and we cannot blame anyone’s financial downfall on bad planning.

Maybe in the not so distant future, we will all have to bugger off, having to become economic refugees in our own countries.

[Jingthing]

You don't need to either spend or earn 65K per month for retirement extensions! What a silly misconception. You can spend 10K per month if you want to or even less. Don't believe me, check the rules,

[enginerevision]

If it's a temporary stay for a few years to have fun and make memories, sure. If the plan is to have a family, raise kids, and retire here. I would be wary. I won't say it can't be done.

Remember, everyone here has a different standard of living. 200k/month might be extravagant for some and barely making it for others. Location also comes into play, much cheaper in Chiang Mai than Bangkok.

200.000 Baht a month? What palace you live in ? !

[jazzbo]

As far as enjoying the company of younger woman, Oscar Wilde wrote of the person who " ... knows the price of everythging and the value of nothing."

[IanForbes]

If it's a temporary stay for a few years to have fun and make memories, sure. If the plan is to have a family, raise kids, and retire here. I would be wary. I won't say it can't be done.

Remember, everyone here has a different standard of living. 200k/month might be extravagant for some and barely making it for others. Location also comes into play, much cheaper in Chiang Mai than Bangkok.

200.000 Baht a month? What palace you live in ? !

Only 200,000 baht? Gawd, is that all? I use more than that just to start up my yacht's diesels.

[Soutpeel]

If it's a temporary stay for a few years to have fun and make memories, sure. If the plan is to have a family, raise kids, and retire here. I would be wary. I won't say it can't be done.

Remember, everyone here has a different standard of living. 200k/month might be extravagant for some and barely making it for others. Location also comes into play, much cheaper in Chiang Mai than Bangkok.

200.000 Baht a month? What palace you live in ? !

200k a month does not equal a palace....200k a month gets you a decent house, decent car, + all the "normal" stuff and not have to worry about waiting for the end of the month to get paid and be able to put some in the bank, thats all

This amount is typical of expats who do a "normal job", as they would in West..= $6250/m or $75k/year, but this is not an "Expat package"......Typically persons on Expat packages are on a lot more...

[bonobo]

As far as enjoying the company of younger woman, Oscar Wilde wrote of the person who " ... knows the price of everythging and the value of nothing."

Although my much appreciated Oscar had very little experience in enjoying the company, so-to-speak, of any women, younger or older!

[Soutpeel]

As far as enjoying the company of younger woman, Oscar Wilde wrote of the person who " ... knows the price of everythging and the value of nothing."

Although my much appreciated Oscar had very little experience in enjoying the company, so-to-speak, of any women, younger or older!

[andD]

lets hope that the young non ex patriots dont feel the same way when you have spent out and have to leave shangri la to return home without a pot to piss in and they have to change your nappies 4 times a day in a TAX PAYERS nursing home! lets just hope hey