Thai Forces Fire Warning Shots In Standoff With Red Shirts

[retarius]

I think you have an overly active imagination or, at the very least, a great sense of hyperbole.

A little bit more convincing than anecdotes, from 2006

Thaksin May Reap From Pro-poor Policies

By Marwaan Macan-Markar

BANGKOK, Mar 10, 2006 (IPS) - Chinda Pintakan's graduation from the bottom of Thailand's social pecking order, as a poor rural farmer, to a step higher, as a waitress in a restaurant, has brought with it material benefits that have given her hope to believe that more is possible.

The 43-year-old mother of two sons has been enjoying an income of over 7,000 baht (175 US dollars) every month, on average, for the past five years. Prior to 2001, when she was part of her farming community in the village of Pong Samaki, some 30 kilometers beyond this northern Thai city, she brought home about 4,500 baht (112 dollars) per month.

For Chinda, as with the other members of her community who are earning better as rice farmers, there is little confusion about who has helped transform their lives. It is Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, she says. ''He gave a lot of opportunities for the poor people with his new programmes.''

Such praise for Thaksin - heading a caretaker government after a February decision to call for a snap parliamentary election on Apr. 2 -is also echoed by others living beyond Chinda's village of 200 families.

Sakorn Uwaiporn is typical. This 40-year-old woman, who earns a living as a food vendor near one of the entrances of the ancient fort that wraps a part of Chiang Mai, talks of other benefits that came after Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thai - TRT) party triumphed at the January 2001 elections.

''It is easier for us to get loans. We don't have to go to the loan sharks,'' she says. ''The 30 baht health scheme (where Thais can get treatment for any ailment by paying 30 baht (0.75 cents) per hospital visit) is better for us than before.''

The endorsement of Thaksin's policies by these two women, who voted for the TRT at the January 2001 and February 2005 polls, is in stark contrast to the hostility the premier has been facing for weeks by demonstrators on the streets of Bangkok. Even other members of the rural poor who live in and around Chiang Mai offer views in support of the TRT's pro-poor policies that the capital's protesters, who are largely middle and upper-middle class, pooh-pooh as ''vote buying measures.''

What they have exposed, consequently, are political faultlines in this South-east Asian country that are pitting the rural poor, who make up a majority of the country's 64 million population, against sections of the richer populace from Bangkok and other urban centres.

It is a divide, say analysts, that mirrors the new political equations introduced to Thailand following the TRT's thumping electoral victories in 2001 and 2005 polls. Most noticeable among them being an aggressive set of policies to help the poor that has succeeded, after five years, in exposing how inadequate the previous means by which the elites and leaders of political parties dealt with the underclass.

''There is no comparison on pro-poor policies between the Thai Rak Thai and the parties in government before 2001,'' Giles Ungpakorn, political scientist at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University, told IPS. ''The opposition Democrat Party has been in government many times before but their policies lacked sympathy for the poor.''

''Thaksin has redrawn the political map by offering policies to help the poor improve financially than the traditional vote buying technique of the other political parties before - just handing out only cash,'' he added. ''Most of the anti-government demonstrators and the opposition parties treat the poor with contempt.''

Cheanchom Thongjen, an economist at the World Bank, offers a similar comparison. ''The Thaksin government's policies to help the rural and urban poor were demand driven. They were in response to what the poor had identified as their priorities,'' she said in an interview. ''The governments before had a top-down approach, supplying the poor with assistance that they thought the poor needed.''

And now, as Thaksin, a billionaire tycoon before becoming premier, faces calls by Bangkok's anti-government demonstrators to resign on charges of alleged corruption, his family profiting from a 1.8 billion dollar deal and stamping down on the media and his critics, his political investments appear to be paying off.

The key planks of his agenda to lift the quality of life of the country's underclass have been: declaring a three-year freeze on their debts, offering one million bahts (25,000 dollars) to each of Thailand's 70,000 villages to create small businesses, the 30 baht health care programme and a housing project for the poor.

An initiative to boost rural economies has also come in the form of a one-village-one product programme (popularly known as OTOP), where by the government has offered to help cottage industries with research and development and marketing the products.

The 36,000 OTOP groups across the country, with each having between 30 to 3,000 people per group, have seen incomes rise over the past four years, says Sakda Siridechakul, president of Chiang Mai's OTOP association. ''OTOP has helped incomes to be spread to many people in the villages. It has given people producing handicrafts to feel they can be part of the global economy.''

All this week, in fact, Sakda has been leading other supporters of OTOP and, by extension, Thaksin, to gather outside one of the gates of Chiang Mai's old fort walls to paint cloth banners in support of the government. ''The Prime Minister is a smart person and stupid people want to attack him,'' said one of the 125 banners painted on Thursday evening.

Research by the World Bank reflects this sense of achievement at the grassroots. Four years after the TRT was first voted to power, Thais living in poverty had dropped to 7.08 million people from the 13 million in 2000.

Agriculture incomes in the poorest section of the country, the northeast, had risen by 40 percent during the same four-year period, added the Bank's 2005 'Thailand Economic Monitor.'

''It is a record that the anti-Thaksin demonstrators and the opposition parties have no answer to,'' says Giles. ''This is one reason why they are campaigning to boycott the April elections.''

Such anti-government sentiments have little appeal for women like Chinda, who says, ''People in my village will be voting for the Thai Rak Thai. We must keep Thaksin as the prime minister.'' (END)

Thanks for this...it matches what I observed in my own town and surrounding villages here in Isan....life improved dramatically for a few years since when I first came in 2001 when the place was really dirt poor...life got better until the coup in 2006...to be honest life hasn't gotten worse, but the improvement seems to have stopped....we have some shameful sights...one example is a half-built complex of about 1500 low income homes...known locally as Thaksin village...the idea was that instead of living in corrugated iron shacks the poor could rent-to buy...as I say the village is half built and totally unusable but instead of finishing it and providing homes for poor people the elite decided that the money would be better off in their pockets....

[retarius]

Good Night and thanks for putting a smile and my face ... still looking for that one red support who actually is willing to be reasonable and examine facts such as the ones that come right out of there leaders mouth instead of making up things and acting as if this is what the red movement believes in but is keeping it secret from the rest of Thailand and the world

This really isn't so much of a stretch as you're making it, so just hear me out. This is the progression of events for many red shirts:

1. For a long time, the powerful institutions of Thailand were untouchable. Although peoples' lives were hard, they suffered from all of the social ills that accompany poverty, and their areas saw few of the modern benefits and accumulation of wealth which were starting to come to Bangkok, this was simply a fact of life. It was not something that they thought could be changed.

2. Thaksin was the first politician to see the political potential of the region as a major voting block, and so was the first to really awaken them to the benefits of political participation. Yes, he was doing it to serve his own ends. Yes, there was massive corruption and vote buying. But his programs did start to improve the lives of the people of the provinces. So much so, in fact, that Thaksin's growing power became a real threat to the long-established powers that had ruled the country for so long.

3. With the coup and the subsequent political maneuvering, Thaksin's supporters were, for all intents and purposes, cut out of the political process once again. The movements which had sprung up in opposition to Thaksin sought not to topple him at the ballot box, but rather to limit the democratic power of the areas which had elected him because the people who lived there were obviously too stupid to do what was right for the country, and therefore had to be disenfranchised. This condescending sentiment was not lost on the people it was directed against.

4. After the rewriting of the constitution by the military and after the courts threw out Samak, dissolved the TRT party and with it Somchai's government, and finally made the decision to confiscate Thaksin's frozen assets without ever having brought any charges against the leaders of the airport seizure, it was clear to the red shirts that they'd lost their voice in the government and with it the political power they'd had their first taste of under Thaksin's government. The people upcountry are fully aware of these events, and each successive setback for them has brought them closer to the current populist fervor and their stubborn defiance of forces that, in pre-Thaksin times, they would have never dared to tangle with.

excellent post...thank you...some folks are simply blinded by their hatred of Thaksin

[chantorn]

Are the protesters innocent

In a protest the protesters are deemed to be innocent if they march or congregate in an area that is free by law for them to congregate

If they are moving and come across a security force which has the authority to ask them to stop, and they do so they are considered innocent protesters

If they make any hostile movement towards the security forces, while under and order to stop, they are no longer innocent protesters

The security forces would then command them to stop or they may be forced to shoot

If the protesters do not obey this order they, are no longer innocent, but provoking hostilities

The security forces are then within their rights to again command them to halt and shoot a warning shot into the air

If the protesters continue to advance on security forces they are then considered to be a hostile force. and definatley no longer innocent protesters

If at this time after multiple warnings that the security force may open fire, protesters are putting themselves into danger of their own making and may even be considered suicidal

It would be advisable first for security forces to shoot at the protesters feet, taking away their ability to advance.

The Thai security forces use a similar method, with there rules being the distance that protesters are from the security forces, and if they do not show any signs of halting their progress

There is no way under the rules of engagement that the red shirts can be called innocent protesters

At this point in time they have full knowledge of what can happen and confirm this with their statements that they are willing to fight to the death

At common law the responsibility of any injuries or deaths must be born by the leaders of the protest if at a time they saw danger in continuing the protest, there could be injuries or deaths and they failed to stop the protest

I am quite sure I heard the shooter whispering to his charging mate: "stop or I will shoot between your eyes".

Anyone care to disagree?

[Motoon]

Good Night and thanks for putting a smile and my face ... still looking for that one red support who actually is willing to be reasonable and examine facts such as the ones that come right out of there leaders mouth instead of making up things and acting as if this is what the red movement believes in but is keeping it secret from the rest of Thailand and the world

This really isn't so much of a stretch as you're making it, so just hear me out. This is the progression of events for many red shirts:

1. For a long time, the powerful institutions of Thailand were untouchable. Although peoples' lives were hard, they suffered from all of the social ills that accompany poverty, and their areas saw few of the modern benefits and accumulation of wealth which were starting to come to Bangkok, this was simply a fact of life. It was not something that they thought could be changed.

2. Thaksin was the first politician to see the political potential of the region as a major voting block, and so was the first to really awaken them to the benefits of political participation. Yes, he was doing it to serve his own ends. Yes, there was massive corruption and vote buying. But his programs did start to improve the lives of the people of the provinces. So much so, in fact, that Thaksin's growing power became a real threat to the long-established powers that had ruled the country for so long.

3. With the coup and the subsequent political maneuvering, Thaksin's supporters were, for all intents and purposes, cut out of the political process once again. The movements which had sprung up in opposition to Thaksin sought not to topple him at the ballot box, but rather to limit the democratic power of the areas which had elected him because the people who lived there were obviously too stupid to do what was right for the country, and therefore had to be disenfranchised. This condescending sentiment was not lost on the people it was directed against.

4. After the rewriting of the constitution by the military and after the courts threw out Samak, dissolved the TRT party and with it Somchai's government, and finally made the decision to confiscate Thaksin's frozen assets without ever having brought any charges against the leaders of the airport seizure, it was clear to the red shirts that they'd lost their voice in the government and with it the political power they'd had their first taste of under Thaksin's government. The people upcountry are fully aware of these events, and each successive setback for them has brought them closer to the current populist fervor and their stubborn defiance of forces that, in pre-Thaksin times, they would have never dared to tangle with.

excellent post...thank you...some folks are simply blinded by their hatred of Thaksin

This is one of the better post that I have read here on TV not meaning that I agree to all points. There is hate and blindness on both sides represented on TV.

[Mario2008]

1 post containg profanity and 1 reply to it deleted.

[chantorn]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

[Insight]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

That will require the reds to lay down their arms.

[ozzieman05]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

[csolgosz]

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

I would like to know if coercing the members of Newin's faction by locking them away for the night - depriving them of their liberty and removing all means of communication before escorting them to parliament to overthrow Somchai's government constitutes legal and democratic political procedure. I would also like to know how much money changed hands after the earlier conversation between Newin and Suthep on an aeroplane...

Some pieces of the jigsaw have been conveniently left out.

So many of the people in Thailand know who the masterminds behind these power-brokering deals are and who benefits from them, so might as well cut the crap now. It is an establishment that goes back decades at least.

An unprecedented number of people are protesting against Abhisit because they regard his government (including his 'seatless' bully boys Deputy PM Suthep and Newin Chidchop - BJT party eader and son of the Speaker of the House...) as illegitimate.

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it! Have a look at ABC Australia television's website and see the nastiness of the responses from Thailand to free speech and you will see the controlling mindset!

[pornsasi]

Good Night and thanks for putting a smile and my face ... still looking for that one red support who actually is willing to be reasonable and examine facts such as the ones that come right out of there leaders mouth instead of making up things and acting as if this is what the red movement believes in but is keeping it secret from the rest of Thailand and the world

This really isn't so much of a stretch as you're making it, so just hear me out. This is the progression of events for many red shirts:

1. For a long time, the powerful institutions of Thailand were untouchable. Although peoples' lives were hard, they suffered from all of the social ills that accompany poverty, and their areas saw few of the modern benefits and accumulation of wealth which were starting to come to Bangkok, this was simply a fact of life. It was not something that they thought could be changed.

2. Thaksin was the first politician to see the political potential of the region as a major voting block, and so was the first to really awaken them to the benefits of political participation. Yes, he was doing it to serve his own ends. Yes, there was massive corruption and vote buying. But his programs did start to improve the lives of the people of the provinces. So much so, in fact, that Thaksin's growing power became a real threat to the long-established powers that had ruled the country for so long.

3. With the coup and the subsequent political maneuvering, Thaksin's supporters were, for all intents and purposes, cut out of the political process once again. The movements which had sprung up in opposition to Thaksin sought not to topple him at the ballot box, but rather to limit the democratic power of the areas which had elected him because the people who lived there were obviously too stupid to do what was right for the country, and therefore had to be disenfranchised. This condescending sentiment was not lost on the people it was directed against.

4. After the rewriting of the constitution by the military and after the courts threw out Samak, dissolved the TRT party and with it Somchai's government, and finally made the decision to confiscate Thaksin's frozen assets without ever having brought any charges against the leaders of the airport seizure, it was clear to the red shirts that they'd lost their voice in the government and with it the political power they'd had their first taste of under Thaksin's government. The people upcountry are fully aware of these events, and each successive setback for them has brought them closer to the current populist fervor and their stubborn defiance of forces that, in pre-Thaksin times, they would have never dared to tangle with.

A very good post . And I agree with you on all that you say . In fact the problem started before the coup when Thaksin dissolved parliament in Feb 2006 under pressure from yellows in the streets (similar situation as now with reds and Abhisit ) , an election was planned in April 2006 which the dems boycotted and paid other parties to boycott (something they have never been punished for BTW ) , so election was invalidated .

However while i supported Thaksin in his early days , because of his support and very good measures for Isaan (as compared , to before him) and the thai economy in general , later i came to believe that he is a truly dangerous and bad leader . Leave aside corruption , shady deals with Burma (satelite) or Temasek (telecoms) and others crooky stuff , just concentrate on his so called " war on drugs " and his handling in the South (Tai Bak and others). Here we had a PM that thought that everything is right to do as long at it is popular . Thais dont like drug addicts (well who likes them but they are sick not criminals) , so Thaksin answer was kill them all and never mind if a few hundred thais that have never been involved in drugs die also . Thais dont like a certain religion , Thaksin answer was to kill in the South some of those who had never done terrorists acts . Thais dont like gays , Thaksin answer : attack them verbally. A good political leader primary quality is high moral standing , not talent , or economic wisdom . Someone who appeals to the population most vile instincts , instead of providing moral guidance is not even fit to be the major of a small town , let alone PM of a major country in Asia . I believe Thaksin and his death squads should be brought to justice for their crimes .

My humble opinion

[ozzieman05]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

No one says the Issan people or Northern people do not have legtimate complaints

No one is saying there must be changes

No one is denying them the right of free and open protest

Its the Red shirt thugs with a self interest and not in the poor people that we are all against

The Government can no longer sit back and put them out of the picture to do so would be political suicide

But what the thugs are doing is hurting the cause they now have

For the Issan People and other farmers of Thailand you have my support

To the thugs that are trying to take power by the rules of the mob

You will get no support from me

and 10 years in jail is to short, and there are many that will say a bullet is to quick

Edited April 29, 2010 by ozzieman05

[whybother]

I would like to know if coercing the members of Newin's faction by locking them away for the night - depriving them of their liberty and removing all means of communication before escorting them to parliament to overthrow Somchai's government constitutes legal and democratic political procedure. I would also like to know how much money changed hands after the earlier conversation between Newin and Suthep on an aeroplane...

Some pieces of the jigsaw have been conveniently left out.

So many of the people in Thailand know who the masterminds behind these power-brokering deals are and who benefits from them, so might as well cut the crap now. It is an establishment that goes back decades at least.

An unprecedented number of people are protesting against Abhisit because they regard his government (including his 'seatless' bully boys Deputy PM Suthep and Newin Chidchop - BJT party eader and son of the Speaker of the House...) as illegitimate.

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it! Have a look at ABC Australia television's website and see the nastiness of the responses from Thailand to free speech and you will see the controlling mindset!

The government doesn't have access to remove all sources of the truth, so their must be some international reference to this that you can quote.

Otherwise, I'll have to assume you just made it all up.

[lannarebirth]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

That will require the reds to lay down their arms.

And cast off the shackles of their local nai.

[KireB]

A very good post . And I agree with you on all that you say . In fact the problem started before the coup when Thaksin dissolved parliament in Feb 2006 under pressure from yellows in the streets (similar situation as now with reds and Abhisit ) , an election was planned in April 2006 which the dems boycotted and paid other parties to boycott (something they have never been punished for BTW ) , so election was invalidated .

Except for the present violent rampage and last Songkran's one, and except for the continous ranting and threats, you have a point!

[pornsasi]

A very good post . And I agree with you on all that you say . In fact the problem started before the coup when Thaksin dissolved parliament in Feb 2006 under pressure from yellows in the streets (similar situation as now with reds and Abhisit ) , an election was planned in April 2006 which the dems boycotted and paid other parties to boycott (something they have never been punished for BTW ) , so election was invalidated .

Except for the present violent rampage and last Songkran's one, and except for the continous ranting and threats, you have a point!

Are you blind to the fact that the yellows behavior was far from exemplary at the time and if you bring Songkran , then what about airport seizure by yellows . Lets not argue

[pornsasi]

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

I would like to know if coercing the members of Newin's faction by locking them away for the night - depriving them of their liberty and removing all means of communication before escorting them to parliament to overthrow Somchai's government constitutes legal and democratic political procedure. I would also like to know how much money changed hands after the earlier conversation between Newin and Suthep on an aeroplane...

Some pieces of the jigsaw have been conveniently left out.

So many of the people in Thailand know who the masterminds behind these power-brokering deals are and who benefits from them, so might as well cut the crap now. It is an establishment that goes back decades at least.

An unprecedented number of people are protesting against Abhisit because they regard his government (including his 'seatless' bully boys Deputy PM Suthep and Newin Chidchop - BJT party eader and son of the Speaker of the House...) as illegitimate.

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it! Have a look at ABC Australia television's website and see the nastiness of the responses from Thailand to free speech and you will see the controlling mindset!

A good point . It could be money or it could be immunity from prosecution for corruption ... However we dont have proof , at least i dont ...

[way2muchcoffee]

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it!

Is this why Abhisit appeared on BBC and CNN yesterday?

[pornsasi]

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

If you discount the fact that Samak was elected PM by a parliament right after a general election and Somchai just elected PM to replace him , just a change of leader , while Abhisit was elected by a parliament modified by the courts , i fully agree with you

[pornsasi]

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it!

Is this why Abhisit appeared on BBC and CNN yesterday?

He said all sources of TRUTH

[clausewitz]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

Yesterday a soldier was shot in the head by another rsoldier accidently. Who exactly is the bad guy?

Maybe the people who issue asault rifles and live rounds to soldiers and then tell them they are alllowed to shoot protestors in self defence (which they define as any protestor getting with 30 meters of them).

This government seems to be looking for some provocaton which will allow them to unlease lethal foce of sufficient strength to cower the redshorts. They now realise that killing 20 was not enough- how many will be enough is not easy for them to gauge I guess.

[pornsasi]

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

Yesterday a soldier was shot in the head by another rsoldier accidently. Who exactly is the bad guy?

Maybe the people who issue asault rifles and live rounds to soldiers and then tell them they are alllowed to shoot protestors in self defence (which they define as any protestor getting with 30 meters of them).

This government seems to be looking for some provocaton which will allow them to unlease lethal foce of sufficient strength to cower the redshorts. They now realise that killing 20 was not enough- how many will be enough is not easy for them to gauge I guess.

In the 60's or 70's in Thailand it was police versus army . Was that soldier shot by police or by army ? Anyway lets pray the past wont start again

[kutjebu]

The CNN News website reported that the soldier was accidentally killed by fire from security forces......

Don't blame the redshirts for that.60% of the army support the reds.Policeforce 70%.Everybody know that or you must stick your head in the sand,like this government.

[clockworkorange]

This really isn't so much of a stretch as you're making it, so just hear me out. This is the progression of events for many red shirts:

1. For a long time, the powerful institutions of Thailand were untouchable. Although peoples' lives were hard, they suffered from all of the social ills that accompany poverty, and their areas saw few of the modern benefits and accumulation of wealth which were starting to come to Bangkok, this was simply a fact of life. It was not something that they thought could be changed.

2. Thaksin was the first politician to see the political potential of the region as a major voting block, and so was the first to really awaken them to the benefits of political participation. Yes, he was doing it to serve his own ends. Yes, there was massive corruption and vote buying. But his programs did start to improve the lives of the people of the provinces. So much so, in fact, that Thaksin's growing power became a real threat to the long-established powers that had ruled the country for so long.

3. With the coup and the subsequent political maneuvering, Thaksin's supporters were, for all intents and purposes, cut out of the political process once again. The movements which had sprung up in opposition to Thaksin sought not to topple him at the ballot box, but rather to limit the democratic power of the areas which had elected him because the people who lived there were obviously too stupid to do what was right for the country, and therefore had to be disenfranchised. This condescending sentiment was not lost on the people it was directed against.

4. After the rewriting of the constitution by the military and after the courts threw out Samak, dissolved the TRT party and with it Somchai's government, and finally made the decision to confiscate Thaksin's frozen assets without ever having brought any charges against the leaders of the airport seizure, it was clear to the red shirts that they'd lost their voice in the government and with it the political power they'd had their first taste of under Thaksin's government. The people upcountry are fully aware of these events, and each successive setback for them has brought them closer to the current populist fervor and their stubborn defiance of forces that, in pre-Thaksin times, they would have never dared to tangle with.

That's a very good description of why the grass-roots Thais feel as they do.

Average Thais have a high school education these days - they judge a government not by spin, but by the concrete improvements that are made to their standard of living. Abhisit's undeocratic installation of prime minister is seen as a step back into the bad old days, when the majority of people were completely ignored and kept in poverty. People are naturally very resentful about that, and they want their right to choose their leader back again.

The problem Abhisit has no longer has much to do with Thaksin, but Abhisit still seems unable to grasp the reality that his government ihas disappointed a people who have had a taste of something better.

[kutjebu]

The dead soldier was identified as Pvt Narongrit Sala of the 9th Infantry Division based in Kanchanaburi, who was accidentally shot in the head by another soldier while riding a motorcycle towards the National Memorial during the clashes, the source said. He was one of the members of the army’s rapid deployment force.

On the main page of the Bangkok Post.

[way2muchcoffee]

The CNN News website reported that the soldier was accidentally killed by fire from security forces......

Don't blame the redshirts for that.60% of the army support the reds.Policeforce 70%.Everybody know that or you must stick your head in the sand,like this government.

Absolutely the red shirt protesters are responsible. They were engaging in illegal actions. It is the government's duty to maintain control and order in public places. The responsibility for any injury to security forces must rest with the illegal protesters.

Edited April 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[IsaanAussie]

Fact - I was sitting in my wifes shop when some red shirts pulled into the moban (NE Thailand) to enlist rally participants, all costs paid and 500 to 1000 baht per day. They got takers, filled the pickup and headed to Bangkok.

Why? Because to the uneducated villagers, they have a concrete road and a water reservior as well as 30 Baht medical scheme funded by the Thaksin regime, and like elephants they do not forget, to them, that was the only time that the Thai government has made a real difference.

I am a fan of Abhisit's style and was of Thaksin's CEO methodology in his early days, but this is not a battle of the NE poor and the Bangkok aristocracy. This is a battle contained between those battling at the top of the wealth and influence tree. It is a shame that the innocents are the ones that really pay the price.

The army are loyal to the King and the King dedicated to the people. Thailand is notorious for its military coups which in my experience occur when civil authorities either lose control of, or abuse the system.

My opinion is that if the current situation continues then the next election may not necessary, a military inspired interim government may well be in place.

isaanaussie

[way2muchcoffee]

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it!

Is this why Abhisit appeared on BBC and CNN yesterday?

Evidently this was a misquote. The quote above was not from whybother. This was from another poster. Unfortunately I can't locate the original. I was informed by PM of my mistake, but the time limit had passed before I could make the edits. Apologies to whybother.

Edited April 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[humfurry]

BTW, don't ask for sources for information, it is a waste of time - the Government has suppressed all of the sources of truth they can and you all dam_n well know it!

Is this why Abhisit appeared on BBC and CNN yesterday?

If they (the government) have indeed suppressed all the sources of the truth... how is it that you're still online ranting about the truth?

[TAWP]

Great pictures on tv of about 50 military all firing in sync what look like shotguns at red shirts (unarmed) on motorbikes

You must be a really sick mind. They killed one of their own men. Shooting into people is not "great" unless you are blessed with a very low social IQ

What you onna bout

On the BBC they are showing what looks like at all out war with 50 military all shooting at the reds with shotguns looks like something from a war movie

Saw the same clip and that was without doubt excessive force by anybodys standards. Its no wonder Gen Anupong does not want any part of this. Slipping into retirement as the man who masterminded the biggest ever slaughter of thai citizens, he does not want that. So who is giving the orders for this action. It looked like all the weapons being fired were aimed at head height.

Shooting less-lethal rounds (be it rubber-bullets or bean-bags) is not close to slaughtering people?

Alright...guess that is why there was so many of the rioters killed last night...oh, wait, it was 0 (zero).

How would they deal with the same people in Europe or the US? The same way. Or harsher...

[TAWP]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum.

They are? I mean, you seem to be wrong on most of your assumptions sofar, so please, go ahead and list them and we can see how wrong - using facts - that you are.