Thailand Could Deteriorate Into Undeclared Civil War

[pornsasi]

<br />The Red Shirts are PTP. The auxiliary street arm might be one way to say it.<br />They are no less fascist for being elected, since they control and condone much of what the red shirts do.<br />So what PTP voices are on record condeming red Shirt actions... I hear them defending Chavalit though.<br />Jutuporn is a PTP MP and core Red Shirt leader, and despicably uses his MP immunity to <br />not get charged for any acts he does.<br /><br />You can't disassociate or separate the Red Shirts and Phuea Thai Party, <br />because they work symbiotic allies all to the same end. If the Reds are fascistic, <br />then PTP supports wholly a fascist organization as a method to get back into power.<br />PTP = RS.<br /><br /><br />I am not defending the PTP at all . Of course they cant condemn the reds as they are in the opposition , all is politics . But i dont think Chavalit and others want the bilionaire prai back to order them around .

Edit : Of course i know that Jatuporn is a PT MP LOL

Edited May 2, 2010 by pornsasi

[ChiangMaiFun]

dhrobertson.

you have asked many small question and i answer them for last time in post 206

sorry you not like or understand reasons. this is problem for you that you not understand, not that you don't know answer.

thank you for accept you were wrong and post many long posts because hope nobody will see that your post was easy to answer.

So, you are saying that all this disruption is to avoid police/army/court re-shuffle?

Is that it?

Are you joking?

I had hoped to get the bare bones of en election manifesto!

PTP has failed to put forward any plans for how they will help the poor. PPP never did either! Thaksin did but he did it in a way to re-create the exact thing you hear cried about from the red stage. He re-created the client-patron dynamic by giving loans that could not be repaid. That means that the people that accepted those loans needed a Thaksin party in power to forgive or extend the loans every 3 years. then there is the underfunded 30 baht scheme that he claimed for his own (it wasn't his idea -- but he did implement it without setting aside the resources to make it work!)

What about the redshirts you ask? They have 2 goals that they have stated and neither have anything to do with helping the poor. Goal 1 "dissolve parliament now" and Goal 2 "get Thaksin back" --- sad huh?

Goal #3 (and the reason they can't wait until the end of the year) make sure they get their own people installed in critical positions in the military so they can prevent it from keeping them honest. It was Thaksin trying to infiltrate the military that kicked off this little shindig. He didn't want any kind of a check on his power, and the reds still don't. The other side responded by deposing him. He still couldn't take a hint and decided to destroy the country in revenge. Those who stupidly sided with him while he was in power got caught out, and now they have nothing left to lose, along with a few other nut jobs who are simply unstable.

The red leaders want to be free to rape and pillage the country unmolested. The people that care about the country will never let that happen. The poor people of Issan don't want a civil war. They are being manipulated by their evil overlords. This is not a peasant uprising folks. Don't believe the propaganda. Talk to the people of Issan not being brainwashed by hate speeches everyday at a protest rally. Nobody wants war.

The best thing to do is crush the UDD and crush them quick before the red terrorists can infect any more of the good people of Issan with their terminal disease.

There is NO evidence that reds wants to RAPE anyone - let alone unmolested - withdraw this remark.

[jdinasia]

I am not defending the PTP at all . Of course they cant condemn the reds as they are in the opposition , all is politics . But i dont think Chavalit and others want the bilionaire prai back to order them around .

Edit : Of course i know that Jatuporn is a PT MP LOL

Ummm when Red shirt guards were arrested for an illegal roadblock ---- Who bailed them out?

[warfie]

The majority of civilians in ANY civil war never want a civil war. And yet they do happen.

Nobody ever wants a civil war, (except arms dealers), everyone else just wants things his own way, "and I'll blow your head off if I don't get my way!"

[pornsasi]

<br />

I am not defending the PTP at all . Of course they cant condemn the reds as they are in the opposition , all is politics . But i dont think Chavalit and others want the bilionaire prai back to order them around .<br /><br />Edit : Of course i know that Jatuporn is a PT MP LOL

<br /><br /><br />Ummm when Red shirt guards were arrested for an illegal roadblock ---- Who bailed them out?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Of course they are linked , same political family . What i said is about the return of Thaksin only . Have you spoken to ppl in Isaan that are gainst Abhisit . Even they themselves dont think that Thaksin will ever return

[gregb]

There is NO evidence that reds wants to RAPE anyone - let alone unmolested - withdraw this remark.

You're funny CMF. I use rape in the metaphorical sense. The Thaksin government raped and pillaged the country for 6 years. No evidence??? How about 76 billion pieces of evidence. Oh....sorry. 34 was deemed legitimate. How about 42 billion.

Withdraw the truth. Yeah...right.

[jdinasia]

The strategy of the PM to wait out the reds seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe he knows they've run out of money or something we don't, maybe he thinks the rain will wash them away. The problem is that thousands of Bangkok residents have been left without jobs. Thousands of people are prevented from using the downtown to get to work, school, hospitals and embassies. How long should they have to suffer so that the reds can continue to harass and annoy everyone? Put some real pressure on these clowns to negotiate and vacate. Days go by with no progress except that the reds get more infuriating. Is there really a reason to wait until more innocent people are injured, killed, or forced to flee from places they have every right to be? Face it reds you have lost the war for public support, you have worn out your welcome, and this is not the appropriate way to get what you claim you want.

And the tens of thousounds of rural people consigned to poverty for decades - are not to be given serious consideration?

Rural people the world over are consigned to poverty mostly because they lack education and opportunities, not because they lack Toyota's and credit cards.

Which recent PM has extended free schooling to all Thais throughout the whole curriculum?

Answer: Abhisit

Which recent PM has proposed a tax on landowners over 5 rai, and an inheritance tax on the rich?

Answer: Abhisit

Which recent PM is not much liked by wealthy local gang lords who own large tracts of rural land and have large amounts of wealth to pass on to their kids being educated in private schools in Bangkok, and who would not much like an educated rural poor demanding higher wages for working in local mafia-owned businesses?

Answer: Abhisit

Now you tell me, who is fighting for the poor?

I would suggest free schooling is not the major requirement, although beneficial, rather a blind for the fact that the education system is not being radically developed and advanced at a respectable speed. Never the less free schooling for all is a start. Could you let me know if the university education system has followed this action with free university education or a program to develop education standards and allow free places to the eager but poorer applicants...........I am prepared to be impressed......please go ahead......

Land tax on owning land over 5 rai.....who do you think will pay this......most rural Thai......and in case you are unsure of the facts you make a only very basic existence on 10 rai of average rural land.

Inheritance tax on the rich......do you really believe there is no legal way around this........perhaps by tranferring the property before you die?........except for the poorer element who struggle to afford the proper legal advice.....and worry of course that if they hand over their property they may be left with no income!!!

I do not think the land track rich will be greatly affected by Abhisit and probably go about their business as usual.

Please continue to educate me......thank you....

sorry Geo -- you should do some of the background work before responding to complicated issues since not all posters will spell out the specifics for you in every post.

The "land tax" is for undeveloped land. If the land is being used in agriculture or business then the land will not get the extra tax. If, however, you own 20,000 rai of land that is not being used or developed then that land would be taxed.

How much more education do you want?

[pornsasi]

<br />

The majority of civilians in ANY civil war never want a civil war. And yet they do happen.

<br /><br />Nobody ever wants a civil war, (except arms dealers), everyone else just wants things his own way, "and I'll blow your head off if I don't get my way!"<br />

<br /><br /><br />

"My way" . It used to be a song by Frank Shinatra , the older uncle

[pimay11]

The strategy of the PM to wait out the reds seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe he knows they've run out of money or something we don't, maybe he thinks the rain will wash them away. The problem is that thousands of Bangkok residents have been left without jobs. Thousands of people are prevented from using the downtown to get to work, school, hospitals and embassies. How long should they have to suffer so that the reds can continue to harass and annoy everyone? Put some real pressure on these clowns to negotiate and vacate. Days go by with no progress except that the reds get more infuriating. Is there really a reason to wait until more innocent people are injured, killed, or forced to flee from places they have every right to be? Face it reds you have lost the war for public support, you have worn out your welcome, and this is not the appropriate way to get what you claim you want.

And the tens of thousounds of rural people consigned to poverty for decades - are not to be given serious consideration?

You are entirely right . Had the dems and other parties in Thailand before 2001 done their job properly which is among other things to improve the standard of living , education and heathcare of all thais especially the disadvantaged ones , a demagog like the billionaire prai would never had been abble to gain such an influence in thai politics and ppl in Isaan would not see Abhisit as the boogy man . I cant vouch for the dems and their coalition partner , perhaps once this protest is all over , the coalition in power all go back to their petty intrigues and self enrichment but i dont think so . The politicians must have realised by now that they can really built a career and real tangible popularity by simply serving the people . However somewhat distasful was the chain of events that brought PM Abhisit in power , he is now in power , he is young which is good , and he should be given a chance to make good his promises . Many thais to whom i spoke too , the silent majority are waiting to see , the PM in action . If he dont , he and his party will be defeated at next election , plain and simple .

pornsasi you are correct in most of your analysis. I have lived here in Isaan over ten years and the schools are a total disgrace. Teachers do their best but do not have the curriculum to educate the children in economics, political science, business, ect. It is basic language, basic math and basic writing. And with the current rote system the student simply copies out of the book. No analytical thinking, no problem solving and no class participation.

The adult population are in debt to the hilt from borrowing from loan sharks at 20% per month. The process for a farmer to get a loan from the bank is unbelievable. I have one or two local people coming to my house each month wanting to sell their land to repay their debts.

The current administration is addressing these issues and hopefully they will stay in office long enough to see some tangible results.

[jdinasia]

in my view if you want to get students on your side you do not do this

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...aders-summoned/

is asked for new thread because i do not know how to do it.

better move barricade out to rangsit so all students can join with reds next week.

Ummmm but viking --- you seem to be missing out that students have spoken out AGAINST the reds.

That unsupported newmandala blurb suggests that 2 (not 100's ... not 1000's) and only 2 'leaders' of one student group need to appear and answer questions.

If there are a few that have participated in something illegal I am sure it will come to light. Currently, the students I have talked to are not even upset about the censorship on the web .. then again they are bright enough to see whatever they want to. I would have expected them to be more upset. Strangely (again it appears strange to me!) they are not opposed to the harsh L.M. laws in Thailand either.

Time is to tell.

see if your great propagada sheets are better than this one.

sorry you don't like messenger and want to shoot it.

students may remember that is was students who were not liked by army last time. and so some good students support army and fascist elite so what, many are rich kids.... but not all.

I guess you missed the RU students speaking out against the Reds? As a rule, RU students are FAR from being the kids of wealthy families (with a few exeptions of course --- one particular RU former student springs to mind).

But you missed the point again Vik --- your source is hearsay. It doesn't mean that it is wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed elsewhere. You missed another point --- that being students have for the most part been against the reds from the beginning. Then again students spoke out against TRT and Thaksin as well.

The difference between the poster that educates himself and the poster on here that doesn't, is that the educated poster reads ALL the information he can get his hands on. He then looks at the source of the information and decides how much weight to give it.

NewMandala has long been a questionable source of 'fact' but it is a good source of how people that look at things differently (and can compose a coherent sentence) see things. NewMandala is basically The Nation for the Red shirt side. They post many stories as fact that never have any credible source or author. It is definitely worth a read! It should also be taken for what it is, for the most part, a source of biased rumor with the occasional fact thrown in!

[dobadoy]

The strategy of the PM to wait out the reds seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe he knows they've run out of money or something we don't, maybe he thinks the rain will wash them away. The problem is that thousands of Bangkok residents have been left without jobs. Thousands of people are prevented from using the downtown to get to work, school, hospitals and embassies. How long should they have to suffer so that the reds can continue to harass and annoy everyone? Put some real pressure on these clowns to negotiate and vacate. Days go by with no progress except that the reds get more infuriating. Is there really a reason to wait until more innocent people are injured, killed, or forced to flee from places they have every right to be? Face it reds you have lost the war for public support, you have worn out your welcome, and this is not the appropriate way to get what you claim you want.

And the tens of thousounds of rural people consigned to poverty for decades - are not to be given serious consideration?

Rural people the world over are consigned to poverty mostly because they lack education and opportunities, not because they lack Toyota's and credit cards.

Which recent PM has extended free schooling to all Thais throughout the whole curriculum?

Answer: Abhisit

Which recent PM has proposed a tax on landowners over 5 rai, and an inheritance tax on the rich?

Answer: Abhisit

Which recent PM is not much liked by wealthy local gang lords who own large tracts of rural land and have large amounts of wealth to pass on to their kids being educated in private schools in Bangkok, and who would not much like an educated rural poor demanding higher wages for working in local mafia-owned businesses?

Answer: Abhisit

Now you tell me, who is fighting for the poor?

I would suggest free schooling is not the major requirement, although beneficial, rather a blind for the fact that the education system is not being radically developed and advanced at a respectable speed. Never the less free schooling for all is a start. Could you let me know if the university education system has followed this action with free university education or a program to develop education standards and allow free places to the eager but poorer applicants...........I am prepared to be impressed......please go ahead......

Land tax on owning land over 5 rai.....who do you think will pay this......most rural Thai......and in case you are unsure of the facts you make a only very basic existence on 10 rai of average rural land.

Inheritance tax on the rich......do you really believe there is no legal way around this........perhaps by tranferring the property before you die?........except for the poorer element who struggle to afford the proper legal advice.....and worry of course that if they hand over their property they may be left with no income!!!

I do not think the land track rich will be greatly affected by Abhisit and probably go about their business as usual.

Please continue to educate me......thank you....

You criticise the gov't for offering free education for the entire school curriculum becaues it doesn't extend to university level?

You don't know the 5 rai tax doesn't apply to smallholder and productive land?

You make up some fantasy about a way to get around the inheritance task even though you don't know anything about how the tax is supposed to work.

You clearly don't know the first thing about these policies, or you'd realise how ridiculous those "ripostes" really are.

Why post on something you know nothing about?

[ChiangMaiFun]

There is NO evidence that reds wants to RAPE anyone - let alone unmolested - withdraw this remark.

You're funny CMF. I use rape in the metaphorical sense. The Thaksin government raped and pillaged the country for 6 years. No evidence??? How about 76 billion pieces of evidence. Oh....sorry. 34 was deemed legitimate. How about 42 billion.

Withdraw the truth. Yeah...right.

mataphor huh? don't think so... we all know what rape means and it shouldn't be used in a political context - you should choose your words more carefully - as for truth you have no idea - the reds have many legitimate issues and your simplistic diatribe is not thought through at all.

[473geo]

sorry Geo -- you should do some of the background work before responding to complicated issues since not all posters will spell out the specifics for you in every post.

The "land tax" is for undeveloped land. If the land is being used in agriculture or business then the land will not get the extra tax. If, however, you own 20,000 rai of land that is not being used or developed then that land would be taxed.

How much more education do you want?

I am always willing to learn - my search for education and depth of knowledge rarely ceases

You have enlightened me on two fronts and your education is much appreciated........I am lazy when it comes to back ground political research because until I identify tangible results I do not tend to swallow any 'party line'.....you see I have nothing I want to sell, and as stated only in the market to buy when tangible evidence is presented.......so you are correct I maybe better avoiding the complex issues........ ........any figures on how much real revenue this 'land tax' will flush from the wealthy? Would the cost not reduce their tax payments on profits......is the tax more than the annual increase in the land value?

[dobadoy]

There is NO evidence that reds wants to RAPE anyone - let alone unmolested - withdraw this remark.

You're funny CMF. I use rape in the metaphorical sense. The Thaksin government raped and pillaged the country for 6 years. No evidence??? How about 76 billion pieces of evidence. Oh....sorry. 34 was deemed legitimate. How about 42 billion.

Withdraw the truth. Yeah...right.

mataphor huh? don't think so... we all know what rape means and it shouldn't be used in a political context - you should choose your words more carefully - as for truth you have no idea - the reds have many legitimate issues and your simplistic diatribe is not thought through at all.

Is that it? Looks like the red-apologists are running out of steam.

[pornsasi]

<br />

The strategy of the PM to wait out the reds seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe he knows they've run out of money or something we don't, maybe he thinks the rain will wash them away. <font color="#0000ff">The problem is</font> <font color="#0000ff">that thousands of Bangkok residents have been left without jobs</font>. Thousands of people are prevented from using the downtown to get to work, school, hospitals and embassies. How long should they have to suffer so that the reds can continue to harass and annoy everyone? Put some real pressure on these clowns to negotiate and vacate. Days go by with no progress except that the reds get more infuriating. Is there really a reason to wait until more innocent people are injured, killed, or forced to flee from places they have every right to be? Face it reds you have lost the war for public support, you have worn out your welcome, and this is not the appropriate way to get what you claim you want.

<br /><br /><br />And the tens of thousounds of rural people consigned to poverty for decades - are not to be given serious consideration?<br />

<br /><br />You are entirely right . Had the dems and other parties in Thailand before 2001 done their job properly which is among other things to improve the standard of living , education and heathcare of all thais especially the disadvantaged ones , a demagog like the billionaire prai would never had been abble to gain such an influence in thai politics and ppl in Isaan would not see Abhisit as the boogy man . I cant vouch for the dems and their coalition partner , perhaps once this protest is all over , the coalition in power all go back to their petty intrigues and self enrichment but i dont think so . The politicians must have realised by now that they can really built a career and real tangible popularity by simply serving the people . However somewhat distasful was the chain of events that brought PM Abhisit in power , he is now in power , he is young which is good , and he should be given a chance to make good his promises . Many thais to whom i spoke too , the silent majority are waiting to see , the PM in action . If he dont , he and his party will be defeated at next election , plain and simple .<br />

<br /><br />pornsasi you are correct in most of your analysis. I have lived here in Isaan over ten years and the schools are a total disgrace. Teachers do their best but do not have the curriculum to educate the children in economics, political science, business, ect. It is basic language, basic math and basic writing. And with the current rote system the student simply copies out of the book. No analytical thinking, no problem solving and no class participation. <br /><br />The adult population are in debt to the hilt from borrowing from loan sharks at 20% per month. The process for a farmer to get a loan from the bank is unbelievable. I have one or two local people coming to my house each month wanting to sell their land to repay their debts.<br /><br />The current administration is addressing these issues and hopefully they will stay in office long enough to see some tangible results.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes i know . I truly hope they can show some tangible results . Right now many in Korat area (the only i know) still see Abhisit as the boogy man . Its incredible . I hear wife saying he puts Thailand into debts , i hear her saying he wants to ruin farmers with his tax program and all sorts of stories like ppl loosing their jobs . There is a serious PR effort that has to be done by the governement , but first the PM has to show something tangible , i think .

[473geo]

Why post on something you know nothing about?

Just following the crowd I guess....

[ChiangMaiFun]

There is NO evidence that reds wants to RAPE anyone - let alone unmolested - withdraw this remark.

You're funny CMF. I use rape in the metaphorical sense. The Thaksin government raped and pillaged the country for 6 years. No evidence??? How about 76 billion pieces of evidence. Oh....sorry. 34 was deemed legitimate. How about 42 billion.

Withdraw the truth. Yeah...right.

mataphor huh? don't think so... we all know what rape means and it shouldn't be used in a political context - you should choose your words more carefully - as for truth you have no idea - the reds have many legitimate issues and your simplistic diatribe is not thought through at all.

Is that it? Looks like the red-apologists are running out of steam.

well we do have to answer all of you yellow fellows and there are not so many of 'us'

[dobadoy]

Why post on something you know nothing about?

Just following the crowd I guess....

You are a true Red...The leaders will be proud of you.

[jdinasia]

I am always willing to learn - my search for education and depth of knowledge rarely ceases

You have enlightened me on two fronts and your education is much appreciated........I am lazy when it comes to back ground political research because until I identify tangible results I do not tend to swallow any 'party line'.....you see I have nothing I want to sell, and as stated only in the market to buy when tangible evidence is presented.......so you are correct I maybe better avoiding the complex issues........ ........any figures on how much real revenue this 'land tax' will flush from the wealthy? Would the cost not reduce their tax payments on profits......is the tax more than the annual increase in the land value?

Nice Geo ---- You sell the Red party -line but claim not to sell anything. You admit that you don't know the complicated issues but feel free to challenge the government's plans and accomplishments. What do you base those challenges on? Research? No, not by your admission.

So tell me Geo ---

What has PPP/PTP done for the poor? If you decide they did in fact, accomplish something. How did that manifest itself across the ENTIRE country in a sustainable way? You may feel free to answer for TRT as well but please remember the sustainable portion of the question!

If you want to see results it would behoove the reds to go home and see the results. They have, after all, been offered elections a whole year early!

It would also be good if you spoke up about the behaviour of the reds .. and what you think the consequences of said behaviour should be. Or would that require information that you don't possess?

[pimay11]

Spot on pornsasi.

Yes i know . I truly hope they can show some tangible results . Right now many in Korat area (the only i know) still see Abhisit as the boogy man . Its incredible . I hear wife saying he puts Thailand into debts , i hear her saying he wants to ruin farmers with his tax program and all sorts of stories like ppl loosing their jobs . There is a serious PR effort that has to be done by the governement , but first the PM has to show something tangible , i think .

The government has done a dismal job of getting the message out. They have to realize that here in Isaan 90% of the people do not read the newspaper. And when they are in their homes at night they watch Thai soaps, not the news.

Every morning at 5:30/6am I have to endure at least five different speaker systems in different parts of this village at the level of 125+db asking people to travel to Bangkok to join the red rally. The puai baan does not tell the locals what the current government is doing for them but why should they, they are Thaksin supporters. Don't want the locals to think Khun A is actually trying to help them.

[Humungus]

The strategy of the PM to wait out the reds seems pretty ridiculous. Maybe he knows they've run out of money or something we don't, maybe he thinks the rain will wash them away. The problem is that thousands of Bangkok residents have been left without jobs. Thousands of people are prevented from using the downtown to get to work, school, hospitals and embassies. How long should they have to suffer so that the reds can continue to harass and annoy everyone? Put some real pressure on these clowns to negotiate and vacate. Days go by with no progress except that the reds get more infuriating. Is there really a reason to wait until more innocent people are injured, killed, or forced to flee from places they have every right to be? Face it reds you have lost the war for public support, you have worn out your welcome, and this is not the appropriate way to get what you claim you want.

And the tens of thousounds of rural people consigned to poverty for decades - are not to be given serious consideration?

You are entirely right . Had the dems and other parties in Thailand before 2001 done their job properly which is among other things to improve the standard of living , education and heathcare of all thais especially the disadvantaged ones , a demagog like the billionaire prai would never had been abble to gain such an influence in thai politics and ppl in Isaan would not see Abhisit as the boogy man . I cant vouch for the dems and their coalition partner , perhaps once this protest is all over , the coalition in power all go back to their petty intrigues and self enrichment but i dont think so . The politicians must have realised by now that they can really built a career and real tangible popularity by simply serving the people . However somewhat distasful was the chain of events that brought PM Abhisit in power , he is now in power , he is young which is good , and he should be given a chance to make good his promises . Many thais to whom i spoke too , the silent majority are waiting to see , the PM in action . If he dont , he and his party will be defeated at next election , plain and simple .

Many of the people who have lost jobs because of the protest are from Isaan. They come to the city for employment. I'm sorry but it is common in rural areas all over the world for people to travel to urban centers for better employment prospects. High paying, low skill jobs won't just materialize in the rural parts of Thailand. It doesn't happen in other countries either.

[Slip]

I am always willing to learn - my search for education and depth of knowledge rarely ceases

You have enlightened me on two fronts and your education is much appreciated........I am lazy when it comes to back ground political research because until I identify tangible results I do not tend to swallow any 'party line'.....you see I have nothing I want to sell, and as stated only in the market to buy when tangible evidence is presented.......so you are correct I maybe better avoiding the complex issues........ ........any figures on how much real revenue this 'land tax' will flush from the wealthy? Would the cost not reduce their tax payments on profits......is the tax more than the annual increase in the land value?

Nice Geo ---- You sell the Red party -line but claim not to sell anything. You admit that you don't know the complicated issues but feel free to challenge the government's plans and accomplishments. What do you base those challenges on? Research? No, not by your admission.

So tell me Geo ---

What has PPP/PTP done for the poor? If you decide they did in fact, accomplish something. How did that manifest itself across the ENTIRE country in a sustainable way? You may feel free to answer for TRT as well but please remember the sustainable portion of the question!

If you want to see results it would behoove the reds to go home and see the results. They have, after all, been offered elections a whole year early!

It would also be good if you spoke up about the behaviour of the reds .. and what you think the consequences of said behaviour should be. Or would that require information that you don't possess?

Indeed JD, contrary to his statement, Geo seems to have swallowed a very definite party line, and is desperately flogging it like a low grade street girl.

[pornsasi]

<br />Spot on pornsasi. <br /><br /><u>Yes i know . I truly hope they can show some tangible results . Right now many in Korat area (the only i know) still see Abhisit as the boogy man . Its incredible . I hear wife saying he puts Thailand into debts , i hear her saying he wants to ruin farmers with his tax program and all sorts of stories like ppl loosing their jobs . There is a serious PR effort that has to be done by the governement , but first the PM has to show something tangible , i think .<br /></u><br />The government has done a dismal job of getting the message out. They have to realize that here in Isaan 90% of the people do not read the newspaper. And when they are in their homes at night they watch Thai soaps, not the news. <br />Every morning at 5:30/6am I have to endure at least five different speaker systems in different parts of this village at the level of 125+db asking people to travel to Bangkok to join the red rally. The puai baan does not tell the locals what the current government is doing for them but why should they, they are Thaksin supporters. Don't want the locals to think Khun A is actually trying to help them.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

LOL yes , she loves the thai soaps , they should subtitle those in english to get my attention . Meanwhile will try to switch to the news more often , and risk a divorce hahaha

[sarahsbloke]

Jingthing says

This is completely wrong. This red shirt insurgency, whatever it ultimately means, has very little to do with anti-Chinese sentiment in Thailand. There will be no Chinese bloodbath in Thailand. Also, comparing the Chinese in Thailand to the Jews in Nazi Germany is an absurd distortion.

SB says

Small group in a country having all the money and running the finances, not same ethnic group as general population.

Sounds like Germany and Thailand to me. Lets wait and see how it ends, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

[473geo]

I am always willing to learn - my search for education and depth of knowledge rarely ceases

You have enlightened me on two fronts and your education is much appreciated........I am lazy when it comes to back ground political research because until I identify tangible results I do not tend to swallow any 'party line'.....you see I have nothing I want to sell, and as stated only in the market to buy when tangible evidence is presented.......so you are correct I maybe better avoiding the complex issues........ ........any figures on how much real revenue this 'land tax' will flush from the wealthy? Would the cost not reduce their tax payments on profits......is the tax more than the annual increase in the land value?

Nice Geo ---- You sell the Red party -line but claim not to sell anything. You admit that you don't know the complicated issues but feel free to challenge the government's plans and accomplishments. What do you base those challenges on? Research? No, not by your admission.

So tell me Geo ---

What has PPP/PTP done for the poor? If you decide they did in fact, accomplish something. How did that manifest itself across the ENTIRE country in a sustainable way? You may feel free to answer for TRT as well but please remember the sustainable portion of the question!

If you want to see results it would behoove the reds to go home and see the results. They have, after all, been offered elections a whole year early!

It would also be good if you spoke up about the behaviour of the reds .. and what you think the consequences of said behaviour should be. Or would that require information that you don't possess?

I find it very interesting that you wish comment from a person who is accused of not knowing what they are talking about..........

Perhaps looking for an easy platform to allow you further comment along such lines.......

Maybe you could care to do some research on my previous posts........where I have......

Declared that I find violence by either side unacceptable.

That Abhisit is a capable man and I applaud his patient stance, (in the face of pressure from many) to avoid a bloody 'crack down'

I feel, irrespective of the pathetic 'tit for tat' debates (that are circulating on TV) an election is the fair solution. I do not see what Abhisit has to fear......his opposition on the street appears to have no manifesto.......

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

[473geo]

Indeed JD, contrary to his statement, Geo seems to have swallowed a very definite party line, and is desperately flogging it like a low grade street girl.

But not so self delusional to think he is half as attractive.......

[pornsasi]

<br />Jingthing says<br />

This is completely wrong. This red shirt insurgency, whatever it ultimately means, has very little to do with anti-Chinese sentiment in Thailand. There will be no Chinese bloodbath in Thailand. Also, comparing the Chinese in Thailand to the Jews in Nazi Germany is an absurd distortion.

<br />SB says<br />Small group in a country having all the money and running the finances, not same ethnic group as general population.<br />Sounds like Germany and Thailand to me. Lets wait and see how it ends, I hope you are right and I am wrong.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Many thai politicians are of chinese or chinese mixed ethnicity . Things like the Kristalnacht are never going to happen in Thailand . At least not against chinese .

Edit : Thanks God ...

Edited May 2, 2010 by pornsasi

[pimay11]

viking75:

so. only you don't know this because you never look outside of propaganda.

Now please answer stupid question for me. Why do you ask question that you can easy find answer to if you only try a bit. and 2nd what time do bars close in Saigon as i go for visa run next week and need beer because arrive late.

nobody has to answer questions from yellow appologiser thank you

But just because you miss it 1000 times. The goverment is want to put its men into all positions in court army and police as shuffle is due then. Sorry that even a thai child knows this but a clever falang not know.

My my aren't we touchy today my friend. Have a couple of pints and chill a little. After all this is only a friendly discussion. No need for anyone to get their underwear in a knot. We can agree to disagree.

As I tell my clients there is no such thing as a stupid question. Just because you do not understand the product does not mean you are stupid.

I think you might have misunderstood my two questions. I am referring to the current situation not the one where Mr T put his friends and family in court army and police positions. Maybe you need to take your own advise and look outside the propaganda and verify what I am saying. Don't take my word for it. Google is a good place to start.

Now that you understand the two questions can you please reply with your best answer? Not a demand mind you, only a request from a fellow poster.

As for your second question, the bars in Saigon close at midnight. If you are resourceful you can find late night bars. Have a nice time in Saigon.

Still waiting for your answer my friend.

[lannarebirth]

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

[473geo]

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

People wishing to give their children an opportunity for an educated more rewarding life than they may have experienced.......come from all sides........my statement was not about colours......