Is Thaivisa Female-friendly?

[AndyBlueEyes]

Yes, I know and tried to change it, but there isn't an editing function for sub-titles! (And you are also invited to read the thread on corrections of others' writing. )

but thanks to you not being able to edit, it motivated me to look up the word and it caused me to learn a new word "misandrist" which IMO probably describes many of the western women that have contributed to so many men becoming misogynist.

[Boo]

She made a home, cooked breakfast and dinner. Many did their own baking. They did the washing, cleaning, ironing and most chores around the house. They gave you love and affection. If you had a problem they gave sympathy. A grazed knee? They tended the graze.

ummm, most of us still do all this & we also hold down full time jobs

Really funny to read some of these justifications of why some people think it is ok to slag off western women. One wonders how many of you have actually had any contact with any in the past 40 years.

[bonobo]

IMO real life requires good manners. If that is PC then so be it, but I see nothing wrong with considerate polite behavior.

Of course, I agree. That is why I ask PC in real life. I don't act PC on Thai Visa because its behind a computer screen and there is no real motivation to do so. If each member had to use their real name and had their picture as an avatar, I would once again be PC. I don't really think I would post anyways though since being PC is boring.

My main point is that a poster who might disgust a female user might be her husband in the other room unbeknown to her.

Man act very differently when they are not in your presence. I know that many women have been hurt by this realization and I do strongly feel bad for women as this is very much a Man's world.

OK, I see.  You don't act with common courtesy because you feel no need when no one knows who you are. 

I think that is pretty sad that you need the potential for adverse consequences in order to be polite, but I do understand your motives and reasoning now. And that makes its own weird sense.

[bkkjames]

Real life requires men to be PC towards women. On the internet you are going to hear the truth. Sure, there are some jaded dregs done over by Thai gals but it doesn't change the fact that what you might view as sexist is the way that 99% of men act in real life when you aren't around. It's a man's world. God forbid you speak Thai and know about the way that Thai men talk and act in their place of business. Put an ad out for "White skinned leggy secretary who has sexy attire and can type" or the national male pastime of Thailand. Basically, if you are a PC person, Thailand is the last place in the world for you. Of course, many Westerners take great pride in feeling like they are different from everyone else and unique so I expect some firm rebuttals.

I am not denying that men can be fairly misogynist in their words when with male friends or co-workers.  But let me ask you this.  Would you talk to your mother in the same way?  If you want to call that PC, fine.  I just call it common courtesy. And I think the same courtesy should hold true in any public forum (using the generic meaning of the word here.)

The nice thing about forums like this is you don't really have to be you to post. For example, I could be a woman (Western one at that) and tell you how I like to go shopping, get my hair straightened and all that jazz but unfortunately SBK has met me in real life and despite my charm, modesty and generosity, I am a male.

Point being, just because you hold the door open for someone because you think it is the right thing to do, doesn't mean you have to like it.

I learned all this from listening to Weng.

[GreenSnapper]

Can it be for a simple reason: that is what many men experience here or in their home country?

In know, this is absolutely politically incorrect. It is also not my personal experience, but I know lots of men who have been fleeced back home or here. They should have a right to talk about it, and not censored away.

I believe you are missing the point here.

No one is censoring anyone else from relating his or her story.  And if some man got fleeced in his supposed relationship with a Thai scam artist, and he wants to tell that story to the rest of the membership, that is fine.

The problems comes when that turns into "all Thai women are scam artists."  Or "all English women let themselves go." Or "all women whatever."

Or: "men in Thailand are old, fat, smelly, sex-craze bastards who abuse innocent farm girls" ....

I read this kind of description all the time in ThaiVisa or western mass media. it is fully accepted as fact, and nobody opens a thread on that sort of generalizations. You see the double standard?

People do generalize. It is human, and I agree, it is unfair in some cases. But once you start censoring certain generalizations, because they are not politically correct, you end up in the sea of lies we have in the western world.

[sbk]

IMO real life requires good manners. If that is PC then so be it, but I see nothing wrong with considerate polite behavior.

Of course, I agree. That is why I ask PC in real life. I don't act PC on Thai Visa because its behind a computer screen and there is no real motivation to do so. If each member had to use their real name and had their picture as an avatar, I would once again be PC. I don't really think I would post anyways though since being PC is boring.

My main point is that a poster who might disgust a female user might be her husband in the other room unbeknown to her.

Man act very differently when they are not in your presence. I know that many women have been hurt by this realization and I do strongly feel bad for women as this is very much a Man's world.

There is a term for this, keyboard warrior. People who don't have the guts to do in real life what they feel they can get away with online.

And as for the idea that women on this forum hate western men, well, I'd have to disagree. If you look at the majority of posters denigrating western men, they are done by other men.

Frankly, most of my closest friends are western guys. My dad is a western guy. So are my nephews, my sisters boyfriend, my brother in law. They are great guys. I am adult enough to differentiate between people who are lovely and nice and those who are rude inconsiderate boors. And somehow, I manage to realize that just because some guys are jerks, doesn't mean they all are.

[tgw]

I have worked in two large businesses where I was the only male executive (health care and a women‘s college). I noticed a duplicity of this objectifying phenomenon. Lunches, staff meetings after hours relaxing functions and conventions were all filled with men bashing jokes and objectifying men in general. Serious non business discussions were reserved for divorce strategy planning and why cats were better than husbands.

I would disagree that the dregs of global society live in Thailand and have found many interesting people who have fascinating jobs and views of life. Oil, mining, defense, and many other interesting if primarily masculine dangerous jobs make for interesting stories.

In Thai business I have not observed the political correctness that is currently rampant in western business. It is a bit archaic but sometimes refreshing.

I know the average Thai boss would not last two minutes in some of the places I have worked. I think as western men become acclimated to Thai ways it is predictable that this would upset western woman who have become used to western PC business patterns.

I don’t feel in general western women want equality. They want an absence of criticism. It is perfectly OK to bash the fat uncouth falang as long as it is a he.

I would rather see more women posting on Thai Visa. I think their input is a welcome change from the same old drunken pub stereotypes. But I would like to see them posting with equality and not retreating behind a wall of PC armor when they have been intellectually bested. I don’t think the answer is to create a cocoon of molly coddling to get more female posters.

The men who live here happily have beat the system. My ex wife told the judge that she wanted to make sure I never had another happy day in my life after she divorced me. She would have been correct had I stayed in the west. She didn’t know about Thailand.

Some men try and make Thailand as much like the west as possible and this creates friction with those of us who have adapted to Thai customs, good and bad because we wanted to get away from the west.

Thailand is a male dominated society run by women. Some people have difficulty grasping this concept.

well put.

[peregrine8]

I did not read through all the posts. I would like to say that I feel that Thailand is a very bad place to take a family. If I knew what I know now I would of never let my family come. Men seem to change here (not all). They have young pretty girls throwing theirsevles at them. Girls that would not give them a second chance in there home country. Next thing you know they are no longer happy with what they have at home. The family is broken but thats okay they have there young Asian women and everything wrong with the marriage was because of the horrible western women.

Thats why for me it is very hard to read a lot of the posts on this forum. After seperating with my husband I went through a lot of them though trying to understand what had happened. It only made me more confused and sick....

[sarahsbloke]

But let me ask you this. Would you talk to your mother in the same way?

My mother was born in the early 1920s, she had more in common with Thai ladies (of the non-scamming/whoring type) than modern western ladies.

Such values as supporting and caring for her husband, cooking and cleaning for him, washing his clothes, etc.

The idea that a woman should divorce her husband and steal his home, pension and children from him would have been anathema to her (for whatever reason).

Edited May 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[bkkjames]

I did not read through all the posts. I would like to say that I feel that Thailand is a very bad place to take a family. If I knew what I know now I would of never let my family come. Men seem to change here (not all). They have young pretty girls throwing theirsevles at them. Girls that would not give them a second chance in there home country. Next thing you know they are no longer happy with what they have at home. The family is broken but thats okay they have there young Asian women and everything wrong with the marriage was because of the horrible western women.

Thats why for me it is very hard to read a lot of the posts on this forum. After seperating with my husband I went through a lot of them though trying to understand what had happened. It only made me more confused and sick....

Oh I get it, because of your husband can't keep it buttoned up, now all Western Men here are only doing so to boost their egos and other naughty things.

Sounds like you are blaming the country and it's women for this.

[TheItaliann]

There is a term for this, keyboard warrior. People who don't have the guts to do in real life what they feel they can get away with online.

Most wear their feelings on their sleeve. One learns very quickly in this world to just be PC and get along. No need to butt heads with all the emotional lightweights out there.

"I am being objectified!" ----> Just comical. Thank god you gals are so cute.

[bonobo]

Or: "men in Thailand are old, fat, smelly, sex-craze bastards who abuse innocent farm girls" ....

And I have made reference in this thread to this gross generalization as well, and I personally find it appalling.

However, this thread is about whether misogynistic posts are making our female members uncomfortable or driving them away.  And there is on big difference.  Less than 10% of our members are female.  Stupid generalizations about men are not obviously affecting the number of male members.  That may be an issue in another potential thread, but not in this one. 

[peregrine8]

I did not read through all the posts. I would like to say that I feel that Thailand is a very bad place to take a family. If I knew what I know now I would of never let my family come. Men seem to change here (not all). They have young pretty girls throwing theirsevles at them. Girls that would not give them a second chance in there home country. Next thing you know they are no longer happy with what they have at home. The family is broken but thats okay they have there young Asian women and everything wrong with the marriage was because of the horrible western women.

Thats why for me it is very hard to read a lot of the posts on this forum. After seperating with my husband I went through a lot of them though trying to understand what had happened. It only made me more confused and sick....

Oh I get it, because of your husband can't keep it buttoned up, now all Western Men here are only doing so to boost their egos and other naughty things.

Sounds like you are blaming the country and it's women for this.

I said not all but read through a fair amount of the posts here and it is very obvious what a fair amount of the men are here for

[bkkjames]

I did not read through all the posts. I would like to say that I feel that Thailand is a very bad place to take a family. If I knew what I know now I would of never let my family come. Men seem to change here (not all). They have young pretty girls throwing theirsevles at them. Girls that would not give them a second chance in there home country. Next thing you know they are no longer happy with what they have at home. The family is broken but thats okay they have there young Asian women and everything wrong with the marriage was because of the horrible western women.

Thats why for me it is very hard to read a lot of the posts on this forum. After seperating with my husband I went through a lot of them though trying to understand what had happened. It only made me more confused and sick....

Oh I get it, because of your husband can't keep it buttoned up, now all Western Men here are only doing so to boost their egos and other naughty things.

Sounds like you are blaming the country and it's women for this.

I said not all but read through a fair amount of the posts here and it is very obvious what a fair amount of the men are here for

I wonder if Mr Bonobo will accept this type of generalization? Despite this I don't honestly care that you think all men are here for that, and although I think your stereotyping is wrong, I am not about to hit some report button demanding the double standards are unacceptable.

[sarahsbloke]

Stupid generalizations about men are not obviously affecting the number of male members.

Normally because you don't get banned, suspended, warned or have your posts deleted for making a stupid generalisation about men, or for writing something that could be read as a stupid generalisation about men if you are really inventive and have a good imagination.

I said not all but read through a fair amount of the posts here and it is very obvious what a fair amount of the men are here for

We pretty much all stay here for the younger women (but most didn't come here for that reason), why not, no law against it ....... yet!

Edited May 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Boo]

I would say after over 6 years on thaivisa that the majority of stupid generalizations about men are made by other men. If they bother you then report them & they will be dealt with. If you don't report them then don't moan when they aren't picked up on & dealt with. The report function is there for a reason.

[bonobo]

I did not read through all the posts. I would like to say that I feel that Thailand is a very bad place to take a family. If I knew what I know now I would of never let my family come. Men seem to change here (not all). They have young pretty girls throwing theirsevles at them. Girls that would not give them a second chance in there home country. Next thing you know they are no longer happy with what they have at home. The family is broken but thats okay they have there young Asian women and everything wrong with the marriage was because of the horrible western women.

Thats why for me it is very hard to read a lot of the posts on this forum. After seperating with my husband I went through a lot of them though trying to understand what had happened. It only made me more confused and sick....

Oh I get it, because of your husband can't keep it buttoned up, now all Western Men here are only doing so to boost their egos and other naughty things.

Sounds like you are blaming the country and it's women for this.

I said not all but read through a fair amount of the posts here and it is very obvious what a fair amount of the men are here for

I wonder if Mr Bonobo will accept this type of generalization? Despite this I don't honestly care that you think all men are here for that, and although I think your stereotyping is wrong, I am not about to hit some report button demanding the double standards are unacceptable.

Hmm, I didn't read the poster saying that all men are here for one thing.  He posted that a "fair amount of men are here for       ."  (And what is the blank?  Sex?  Jobs? Food?  Diving?  What are you assuming here?)

Report away if you feel so inclined.

[chiangmaibruce]

actually I have been told my many women who once were members of thaivisa or who were thinking of joining that they don't contribute because of the blatent & disgusting comments that have been made about women over the years.

So then, considering this in the light of your earlier comment:

"... sadly the victims & haters will always be victims & haters cause it is always someone else fault & never anything to do with them "

... am i right then in assuming that the reason women choose not to participate in discussions on Thaivisa is someone else's fault and nothing to do with them ? ... but are they the victims or (?)

[peregrine8]

Stupid generalizations about men are not obviously affecting the number of male members.

Normally because you don't get banned, suspended, warned or have your posts deleted for making a stupid generalisation about men, or for writing something that could be read as a stupid generalisation about men if you are really inventive and have a good imagination.

My husband is a cheating a$$ and I know it and no I do not think all the men here are like that. It just seems to be okay here in Thailand not just on Thai Visa Forum. So I apologize for my earlier comments... That being said There are so many posts that are just about Thai women/ how they are better then western women/ what they can do for you or whatever... So no I do not think it is very female friendly... Regardless of my current circumstances

[Boo]

chiangmaibruce, you can assume what you want but it is interesting reasoning you are using. Up to you if it makes you feel better

[sbk]

jamie needs to buy glasses, or stop selectively reading

[bkkjames]

Ok mate, using that as the guide I can suggest that a fair amount of women on TV are here to.... (assume what you want).

[bonobo]

Stupid generalizations about men are not obviously affecting the number of male members.

Normally because you don't get banned, suspended, warned or have your posts deleted for making a stupid generalisation about men, or for writing something that could be read as a stupid generalisation about men if you are really inventive and have a good imagination.

Don't be too sure about that.  Stupid generalizations about men get deleted and posters warned just like stupid generalizations about other groups. Not everyone gets caught, of course.

I am an over 50 Western male, and I take personal affront to these statements, and yes, I have reported them before I was a moderator and have taken actions since, just as I have done for stupid comments about gays, Muslims, Thais in general, and probably other demographics as well.

(Sorry to bring up moderation again after asking that we refrain from doing that.) 

[tgw]

IMO real life requires good manners. If that is PC then so be it, but I see nothing wrong with considerate polite behavior.

Of course, I agree. That is why I ask PC in real life. I don't act PC on Thai Visa because its behind a computer screen and there is no real motivation to do so. If each member had to use their real name and had their picture as an avatar, I would once again be PC. I don't really think I would post anyways though since being PC is boring.

My main point is that a poster who might disgust a female user might be her husband in the other room unbeknown to her.

Man act very differently when they are not in your presence. I know that many women have been hurt by this realization and I do strongly feel bad for women as this is very much a Man's world.

There is a term for this, keyboard warrior. People who don't have the guts to do in real life what they feel they can get away with online.

And as for the idea that women on this forum hate western men, well, I'd have to disagree. If you look at the majority of posters denigrating western men, they are done by other men.

Frankly, most of my closest friends are western guys. My dad is a western guy. So are my nephews, my sisters boyfriend, my brother in law. They are great guys. I am adult enough to differentiate between people who are lovely and nice and those who are rude inconsiderate boors. And somehow, I manage to realize that just because some guys are jerks, doesn't mean they all are.

I think you miss the point.

There are several ways to use a forum.

Most men use an internet forum as a free & unrestricted medium to exchange views and ideas with fellow people and friends, much in the same way as it is done around a table in the pub. No mothers or wives there. Some men stay polite, some not.

Most women seem in general to care more about their image, and they use the forum as when discussing with their friends. I know about what my (western) wife talks with her friends. Most of what is being said is related in some way or another to how awesome they are, and the chatting is a competition, each one trying to be more awesome than the other, even if this means lying to each other...

I do think women and men use internet forums differently.

...then point 2:

I think women reclaiming more "courtesy" in the forum are in fact trying in some way to restrict free speech and in a way to "westernize" the forum by bringing political correctness in.

Please notice that "courtesy" has the same etymology as "courting". But the male members are not here to court women.

I'd prefer to see female posters use their freedom of speech to state their minds, even if this means being politically incorrect, rather than to seek to restrict everyone's speech.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tgw

[popmybubble]

I don't really understand why some Western men think that Western women have chips on their shoulders while in Thailand. Surely (like the majority of blokes here) they have chosen to stay here?

And a lot are in relationships with Thai men (much cuter overall than Western guys IMO) so why would they care what Western dudes are doing??

Also some posters seem to prefer the idea of a woman not working and just keeping house, tending to their partners 24/7. I would have thought that in the Western world it's pretty obvious that most families couldn't afford to have just one income. And why wouldn't you want your partner to have independence? I don't get it, but then again I am a woman

[GreenSnapper]

However, this thread is about whether misogynistic posts are making our female members uncomfortable or driving them away.  And there is on big difference.  Less than 10% of our members are female.  

Men and women have different areas of interest. What is a problem with a 10% rate? It just tells you that most women are not interested in the things discussed here.

You will find that in many other web forums as well. And on the other hand, there are forums which are 90% female.

We are not the same, and that is good so.

And I don't see that women are driven away from the discussions here. In contrary: often women's positions are defended by some knight on a white horse.

[Berkshire]

Ok mate, using that as the guide I can suggest that a fair amount of women on TV are here to.... (assume what you want).

Really doesn't have the same impact (or assumptions), does it? I think you lose this one.

[sarahsbloke]

SBK says

If you look at the majority of posters denigrating western men, they are done by other men.

Why am I allowed to 'look at' this sort of post, if it's denigrating to western men, it's against forum rules, so shouldn't you have deleted the post and warned the poster?

(sorry, now I'm doing it)

Edited May 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[dick turpin]

My male member has no opinion on this subject

[bkkjames]

The fact of the matter is all you have to do is look at the stats (male v female) on # of expats and visitors to see why there are more male than female TV members, and what that says about the what this forum is about: Thailand. Read into that what you want.

Suffice to say that if one were to go on a forum dedicated to Woman's Issues, chances are most posters would be female, I assume.

Now I am not sure of the motivation of this topic to begin with? To tell us all to be nice to women? To try and attract more female members to secure additional sources for advertising?