Nightmare At Samui Immigration

[NALAK]

Indeed, this is a troubling post, in particular because OP's extensions had been approved using essentially the same documentation in previous years.

So, the suggestion that this is the policy of a newly-arrived chief of the Samui IO would be consistent with the different treatment OP experienced.

However, the idea that the new IO chief won't approve interest-bearing accounts would mean that almost every retiree on Samui using the 800K method would not be approved for their next extension application. Or that bribes are required for retirement extension -- which I've never seen reported on this Forum for any IO.

I think it is important for the Forum to get some sort of confirmation of what is going on in Samui since OP's experience is really out of line from what others have been reporting at other IOs.

Bingo

there's just so much of this story that just doesn't add up. Lawyers, bribes, savior agents etc. I'm not buying it that's for sure. I don't know anyone being forced to pay bribes alone or thru "lawyers" for extensions anywhere in this country

it all adds up perfectly well to me after 8 years dealing with them. i know the guy down there for 8 years but my 1900 marriage visa last year cost 5000, i knew that before i went. the year before 10,000 through a lawyer. ask how many people have ever had a receipt from the immigration, i only know of one and he is the British Consulate. as a matter of principal 6 months into my retirement visa i went home, whilst there changed back to non o and do visa runs. letters, proof of address every thing double any where else. as Roo says you could write a book. there used to be a price list in there years ago, now its gone.

you have to pay extras or do visa runs. you can add pattaya to the lawyer thing, be honest your joking arent you.

[parallaxtech]

No offence to the poster,but it sounds to me his attitude or the way he replied to the imigration office on the day re 'getting his lawyer"was what undid him too.The only way to be is humble in these offices.

You might not have seen my early message. After I had sat for several hours and smiled and calmly spoken to three different Immigration people and they had rudely told me to leave, I asked if my lawyer could come in and interpret, as something was obviously lost in translation. It would be fruitless to threaten any government official in any country, but perfectly acceptable to request that a lawyer at least assist you with a legal matter. If I have a problem with the police I'm not going to sit and argue with them. I will let a lawyer discuss the problem with them. If they had simply said, "We are sorry but Thai Immigration is no longer accepting these accounts because ..., I would have understood and accepted it. I haven't included all the negative things that were said to me, which made me feel more and more like I was being singled out by somebody on an ego trip.

[Lite Beer]

i know the guy down there for 8 years but my 1900 marriage visa last year cost 5000, i knew that before i went.

The fee is 1,900 Baht. Why would you think it OK to pay 5,000 Baht.

It is beyond me.

I paid 5,000 Baht the first time out of ignorance.

I then joined Thai Visa and found out that the fee was 1,900 Baht.

I paid 5,000 the next year because I knew I was leaving Samui shortly and in the future would be dealing with honest people.

[parallaxtech]

it all adds up perfectly well to me after 8 years dealing with them. i know the guy down there for 8 years but my 1900 marriage visa last year cost 5000, i knew that before i went. the year before 10,000 through a lawyer. ask how many people have ever had a receipt from the immigration, i only know of one and he is the British Consulate. as a matter of principal 6 months into my retirement visa i went home, whilst there changed back to non o and do visa runs. letters, proof of address every thing double any where else. as Roo says you could write a book. there used to be a price list in there years ago, now its gone.

you have to pay extras or do visa runs. you can add pattaya to the lawyer thing, be honest your joking arent you.

Exactly, I think the funniest comment I heard was from an 83-yr-old, who was a retired judge from Cyprus, "I never pay bribes I just go in every year and pay my standard 30,000THB for my extension and it's over." When I told him the fee was 1900THB, he turned red in the face and actually went down to Immigration and asked for his money back for overcharging him for the last six years. And guess what they said to him, "Where is your receipt?"

Edited May 11, 2010 by Mario2008
quote fixed - mario2008

[parallaxtech]

i know the guy down there for 8 years but my 1900 marriage visa last year cost 5000, i knew that before i went.

The fee is 1,900 Baht. Why would you think it OK to pay 5,000 Baht.

It is beyond me.

I paid 5,000 Baht the first time out of ignorance.

I then joined Thai Visa and found out that the fee was 1,900 Baht.

I paid 5,000 the next year because I knew I was leaving Samui shortly and in the future would be dealing with honest people.

Exactly LB! Don't ever ask Immigration how much the fee is. Just complete the form and put 1900B on top of it. If they ask for more tell them no problem but your embassy needs a copy of the receipt. If every time you went to the bathroom somebody handed you 5,000B, how many times a day would you go? If everyone is giving them an extra 5K, you can see why they keep it up until one day it spirals way out of control, and how much will they ask for in ten years? Get the picture?

By the way, LB, did you find any honest people???

Edited May 11, 2010 by parallaxtech

[samuibeachcomber]

No offence to the poster,but it sounds to me his attitude or the way he replied to the imigration office on the day re 'getting his lawyer"was what undid him too.The only way to be is humble in these offices.

You might not have seen my early message. After I had sat for several hours and smiled and calmly spoken to three different Immigration people and they had rudely told me to leave, I asked if my lawyer could come in and interpret, as something was obviously lost in translation. It would be fruitless to threaten any government official in any country, but perfectly acceptable to request that a lawyer at least assist you with a legal matter. If I have a problem with the police I'm not going to sit and argue with them. I will let a lawyer discuss the problem with them. If they had simply said, "We are sorry but Thai Immigration is no longer accepting these accounts because ..., I would have understood and accepted it. I haven't included all the negative things that were said to me, which made me feel more and more like I was being singled out by somebody on an ego trip.

such a long thread,for such simple answers.See my post no.75.Its not a big deal.You just did n't have the required amount in the correct account.Its not difficult to get back your retirement extension, and you've had much good advice about different ways to go about it.Good luck and get to it!

[parallaxtech]

such a long thread,for such simple answers.See my post no.75.Its not a big deal.You just did n't have the required amount in the correct account.Its not difficult to get back your retirement extension, and you've had much good advice about different ways to go about it.Good luck and get to it!

No, thanks to several of you, I am sitting now in KL with my visa ready to come back. The reason for these long messages is that we are trying to find out what is and isn't considered a correct account, so that others, who might not have the money to jump on a plane in a minutes notice to get a visa, can get their extension effortlessly. They might say next week that Bangkok Bank is not acceptable, which makes about as much sense as my rejection. We are the only ones jumping through hoops so it's important to know when they have moved the hoops.

[My Friend Same]

i know the guy down there for 8 years but my 1900 marriage visa last year cost 5000, i knew that before i went.

The fee is 1,900 Baht. Why would you think it OK to pay 5,000 Baht.

It is beyond me.

I paid 5,000 Baht the first time out of ignorance.

I then joined Thai Visa and found out that the fee was 1,900 Baht.

I paid 5,000 the next year because I knew I was leaving Samui shortly and in the future would be dealing with honest people.

Exactly LB! Don't ever ask Immigration how much the fee is. Just complete the form and put 1900B on top of it. If they ask for more tell them no problem but your embassy needs a copy of the receipt. If every time you went to the bathroom somebody handed you 5,000B, how many times a day would you go? If everyone is giving them an extra 5K, you can see why they keep it up until one day it spirals way out of control, and how much will they ask for in ten years? Get the picture?

By the way, LB, did you find any honest people???

I think perhaps the best solution for those having such nightmares in Samui is move outta there. Sounds like that's what LB did. My applause for that. What's the attraction down there anyway?

Edited May 11, 2010 by My Friend Same

[My Friend Same]

No offence to the poster,but it sounds to me his attitude or the way he replied to the imigration office on the day re 'getting his lawyer"was what undid him too.The only way to be is humble in these offices.

You might not have seen my early message. After I had sat for several hours and smiled and calmly spoken to three different Immigration people and they had rudely told me to leave, I asked if my lawyer could come in and interpret, as something was obviously lost in translation. It would be fruitless to threaten any government official in any country, but perfectly acceptable to request that a lawyer at least assist you with a legal matter. If I have a problem with the police I'm not going to sit and argue with them. I will let a lawyer discuss the problem with them. If they had simply said, "We are sorry but Thai Immigration is no longer accepting these accounts because ..., I would have understood and accepted it. I haven't included all the negative things that were said to me, which made me feel more and more like I was being singled out by somebody on an ego trip.

such a long thread,for such simple answers.See my post no.75.Its not a big deal.You just did n't have the required amount in the correct account.Its not difficult to get back your retirement extension, and you've had much good advice about different ways to go about it.Good luck and get to it!

agreed, that's the bottom line here it sounds like. Mountain out of molehill

[Maestro]

parallaxtech, the entire discussion in this topic boils down to the type of account you used as proof of money in a Thai bank. You call it “Fund Account”. A lot of guessing has been going on as to what type of account this might really be and whilst I suspect what it could be I do not wish to add one more guess.

I searched the entire website of Siam Commercial Bank for the expression “Fund Account” and the only thing that turned up was “Fund Accounting” in the 177-page Thai-language annual report. Is it possible for you to post the link to the SCB web page that lists the type of account you are talking about? This would help a lot to solve the puzzle.

--

Maestro

[My Friend Same]

My wife says that type of account is similar to a CD. So as I stated earlier in this thread, if true then the Immi guy was 100% correct to deny the visa

[Maestro]

...similar to a CD...

CD --> www.acronymfinder.com/CD.html

--

Maestro

[beechguy]

...similar to a CD...

CD --> www.acronymfinder.com/CD.html

--

Maestro

I think he means "Certificate of Deposit", in the U.S. commonly referred to as a "CD". Basically the money is deposited into an account for an agreed upon period, and one is penalized for early withdrawal.

[Maestro]

...if true then the Immi guy was 100% correct to deny the visa

Once the OP gives us the link to the information about his type of account, the discussion can proceed to the next step: his claim that the account should have been accepted because it was accepted for the previous five years, ie his claiming a right based on a precedent.

--

Maestro

[TaoNow]

Maestro, I disagree that this whole discussion is about the type of bank account of OP.

It has turned into a description of graft practices at Samui IO.

Up until this thread, I had never read on the Forum of anyone having to pay a bribe at any IO office for a retirement extension.

Yet other credible TV members are describing the bribe requirement -- including Lite Beer.

This is very troubling and is different from, say, paying a few hundred baht for a residence certificate for a vehicle license.

If this corrupt practice spreads to other IOs, simply because Samui gets away with it, then imagine what a cruel thing that would be to many ex-pats who have given up their homeland to retire here.

We need to find a way to oppose this degree of corruption without jeopardizing our ability to live here.

[Lite Beer]

A few years ago I had a SCB Fund Book. I never did understand it so I figured that Immigration would not either so I used to withdraw and put the money in a Savings acc. at extension time.

It was based on units and you gave 24 hours notice to sell.

Yes after leaving Samui I dealt with Korat Immigration who were very helpful and friendly. Now deal with the new Khon Kaen office. Also very helpful.

[whatchamacallit]

...if true then the Immi guy was 100% correct to deny the visa

Once the OP gives us the link to the information about his type of account, the discussion can proceed to the next step: his claim that the account should have been accepted because it was accepted for the previous five years, ie his claiming a right based on a precedent.

--

Maestro

FYI: 3 years ago we opened a 1 year CD account with TMB at their Pattaya Branch - this account is NOT a savings account - it's a fixed rate interest bearing account. They gave us a book similar to any savings account book you all have. We used this account to extend my partner's retirement visa (1 year permission to stay extension) and it was accepted by Jomtien Immigration. When the account matured and the rate was not so good anyway - we decided to move the funds into a regular savings account which we used to apply for his last year's extension and will (again) use for his next August extension. Who knows maybe CD accounts are NOT accepted anymore.... besides the rates are lousy why tie up your money and risk the money being valid for your extension.

Edited May 12, 2010 by whatchamacallit

[lopburi3]

There are three normal bank accounts - but there are also bond/stock type investment accounts sold with no government insurance by the banks under various names.

The three normal cash accounts are:

Current account - what most of us call a checking account.

Passbook savings account - what most people have and basic savings account without restrictions.

Fixed deposit account - like a CD but with passbook/issued for a set period but funds held in cash. Loss if interest if early withdrawal.

There are also variations on the above such as those savings that require monthly deposit of a fixed amount (education/home buying or whatever).

[parallaxtech]

My wife says that type of account is similar to a CD. So as I stated earlier in this thread, if true then the Immi guy was 100% correct to deny the visa

No, I have a cd here and this is not a cd, because a cd has a time frame where the funds can't be removed. The bank manager even explained to him that it was the same as any other passbook account, only that it had variable interest and you had to wait one day to get your money. Needless to say, i will never present a Fund Book account to Immigration ever again.

By the way I was granted three mos stay, so I will approach Imm in three mos with a regular passbook showing 800K.

[parallaxtech]

...if true then the Immi guy was 100% correct to deny the visa

Once the OP gives us the link to the information about his type of account, the discussion can proceed to the next step: his claim that the account should have been accepted because it was accepted for the previous five years, ie his claiming a right based on a precedent.

--

Maestro

See lightbeer's link above, which is exactly the same account I have and many more have. When I first got the account it was 3.5% and rising. When you're transferring money over for a house and land you typically want the highest interest possible. After depleting most of the funds over the years, I simply left it in the account even as it dwindled to .75%, as I figured one day it would rise again. The bank manager told me in 2005 that there would never be a question from Immigration. Since I've always received my extension using this particular account, I've never thought about it. What bothered me most was their attitude. When a farang is asking politely for an explanation and options, it is inhumane to mumble some vague excuses and then tell them just to leave and go back to the US.

[parallaxtech]

A few years ago I had a SCB Fund Book. I never did understand it so I figured that Immigration would not either so I used to withdraw and put the money in a Savings acc. at extension time.

It was based on units and you gave 24 hours notice to sell.

Yes after leaving Samui I dealt with Korat Immigration who were very helpful and friendly. Now deal with the new Khon Kaen office. Also very helpful.

LB: Thanks, as usual, you are right on the mark. Maybe I will join you up at KK. You should perhaps take a picture of these honest people and we can post it on TV.

[Lite Beer]

I can understand why they would not accept that.

I never did understand it. Was getting 4% though.

I should imagine that while they were charging most applicants 5,000 Baht they were happy to accept anything.

Now apparently under a new regime they are playing by the book.

[parallaxtech]

I can understand why they would not accept that.

I never did understand it. Was getting 4% though.

I should imagine that while they were charging most applicants 5,000 Baht they were happy to accept anything.

Now apparently under a new regime they are playing by the book.

LB, the problem is I don't believe there is anything in a book or document about it -- simply 800,00K in cash in a bank account. Anyway, that is exactly what they will see from me next time. I am on my way to see the SCB manager to make sure he alerts all clients to move out of these accounts if they are looking at them for immigration purposes.

Question: Since I now have my non-imm O good for three mos do I need to immediately fill out the 90 day form at Immigration showing proof of residence or can I simply wait the three mos when I go in to apply for the extension and just file it then?

Thanks, LB, for all you did this past week!

[Mario2008]

You file the 90 day report 90 days after you are in the country.

Untill you ask for an extension of stay you will not need to do 90 day reports. The first extension of stay is considered your first 90 day report and you will have to report every 90 days. If you leave the country, the 90 day reporting clock is reset to day 1.

[phetaroi]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. It seems like there are 3 possibilities:

1. The bank account was not appropriate to the purpose.

2. Money changing hands.

3. Attitude on one or both sides.

I'm still guessing it's #3. As a retired local government official back in the states, we often had clients who the "WELL, I"LL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS" attitude. We had to put up with it or really get our hands slapped by the higher-ups. We couldn't say, "Well, just go home." But we often wanted to. Because no matter how reasonable those people portrayed themselves -- and probably even thought they were being -- their attitude was offensive.

After many long trips to Thailand since 1987 and living here now for a year, I've still yet to see this type of situation...except a couple of times at hotels where Western travelers were being unpleasant. It just doesn't work here.

Admittedly, I may have totally judged the OP, and if I have, I apologize. But none of us here really knows exactly how things transpired or what the other side of the story is.

[TaoNow]

Phetaroi: You are not reading the thread carefully.

Other TV members have come on this thread to say that Samui immigration arbitrarily asks some ex-pats for bribes to process routine extensions.

This is highly irregular, as we have not seen any report of this at any other IO in the country (to my knowledge).

I seriously doubt it was anything the OP said or did. He has repeatedly said he was polite and respectful.

The lawyer wasn't brought in until OP had been denied a routine extension. Again, this is out-of-line behavior for Thai immigration.

It could be that, being an island outpost and not situated in a provincial capital, the Samui IO staff feel safely enough removed from their supervisors to practice this extortion.

We need to know more about the circumstances of who they ask bribes from and on what (false) pretexts.

Then we need to see what action can be taken to stop this practice before it spreads to other IOs.

[sting123]

parallaxtech, the entire discussion in this topic boils down to the type of account you used as proof of money in a Thai bank. You call it "Fund Account". A lot of guessing has been going on as to what type of account this might really be and whilst I suspect what it could be I do not wish to add one more guess.

I searched the entire website of Siam Commercial Bank for the expression "Fund Account" and the only thing that turned up was "Fund Accounting" in the 177-page Thai-language annual report. Is it possible for you to post the link to the SCB web page that lists the type of account you are talking about? This would help a lot to solve the puzzle.

--

Maestro

it's call SFF; that is what is written on my book

5 000 bht min to open, you can choose the duration; interrest are put on the book weekly; you can cancel with 24 hours notice without prejudice.

But , the interrest rate is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad (0.72 % for 6 month duration).

SCB Robinson Phuket for reference

Precision: I do not know what immigration think about it, I am on Non B; I merely gave detail on the kind of account

Edited May 12, 2010 by sting123

[PoorSucker]

Latest price for extension on Samui 8800 Baht.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3588595

[Mario2008]

Latest price for extension on Samui 8800 Baht.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3588595

Believe that includes a (multiple) re-entry permit.

[Lite Beer]

My first ever Post on Thai Visa 23.10.06

Hello. Can some one please confirm the annual fee for renewing the Non Imm o Visa based on marriage to a Thai wife.

I ask because myself and others in Samui are paying 5,000 Baht. Friends I talk to in other areas of the country seem to be paying 1,900. I have searched web sites and everything seems to suggest a fee of 1,900.