Bangkok: Policeman Killed, 7 Policemen, 2 Civilians Injured In Double Attacks

[jdinasia]

No Jerry ----

That could just as easily be evidence that the reds are stalling. Nothing more and nothing less.

I assume some negotiation is happening. I also assume that while the reds maintain a violent threat/presence in downtown BKK that no real negotiations are going on. Abhisit won't actively negotiate with the safety of Bangkok/Thailand. He will actively negotiate for peace and political reform in Thailand. Those are 2 different things. If the reds want more --- they show good faith and go home first. Their leaders show good faith and turn themselves in.

What means negatiations are going on are things like.

"We are talking with the government at the highest levels" -- what means stalling is happening are things like "we need to know what the specific date for dissolution will be" when the law requires it so happen inside of a set 15 days to have elections on the date he set.

[difos57]

But not all red shirts are on the same page. Read the Sunday Bangkok Post and you will see that Seh Dang is definately the terrorist element. Not all agree with him, which is good to see. Seh Dang is a loose canyon that flipped and those that are associated with him will have to suffer the consequences. Hopefully, they can subdue him so the peace process can continue before he commits any more acts of terrorism.

[Insight]

In Nonthaburi the red protest is blocking Rattanathibet Road, traffic is backed up to the river and I imagine it is worse on Ngamwongwan Road in the other direction. Red protesters have intensified their protest at Thaicom in Nonthaburi and have blocked several lanes with their vehicles. Take alternate routes if you can, so much for things getting better.

Was planning on driving past there later - thanks for the head's up.

[granuaile]

Chegevara king of disinformation and mixing up things... none of these pictures are from the 2006 coup , most of them and especially the one with the gun are from songkran last year and not against the government but the reds... the one with the police are certainly from the government house under somchai ... but have you heard of any police or army killed by the PAD???????????????

anyway it has nothing to do with the 2006 coup as you pretend

using you tactics of disinformation i can find you pictures of Thaksin with yellow shirts supporters and tell you that he is PAD

I took those photos with a big grain of salt.... Wasn't sure where they were from, but knew not the coup which went off without a hitch.... (seemingly at least).... And I was pretty sure they weren't yellows... Most yellows I know look far less like a Thai chapter of the Aryan Brotherhood.... Thanks for clarifying where they are from...

More lies from the che. Whatever happened to all of the aliases that che was using. I think it was brahmburger noticed it in another thread and all of the cheb aliases went home. Definately a red terrorist supporter.

His use of Che's name to support a billionaire fascist is reprehensible... Che was a truly a great socilaist, not a lackey for a billionaire....

[Jerrytheyoung]

No Jerry ----

That could just as easily be evidence that the reds are stalling. Nothing more and nothing less.

I assume some negotiation is happening. I also assume that while the reds maintain a violent threat/presence in downtown BKK that no real negotiations are going on. Abhisit won't actively negotiate with the safety of Bangkok/Thailand. He will actively negotiate for peace and political reform in Thailand. Those are 2 different things. If the reds want more --- they show good faith and go home first. Their leaders show good faith and turn themselves in.

What means negatiations are going on are things like.

"We are talking with the government at the highest levels" -- what means stalling is happening are things like "we need to know what the specific date for dissolution will be" when the law requires it so happen inside of a set 15 days to have elections on the date he set.

the Red Shirts rallye may be stalling (your opinion, not mine), but, in any case, there is an indepth issue of the Thai Society which has to be fixed. If it is not adressed now, it will bounce back at the first opportunity.

About Safety, most of the Red Shirts leaders have shown comprehension and even agree with Abhisit for terrorist arrests. So this is already a point in the General agreement which is done and as such we do not need to discuss anymore.

Once the agreement will be reached on the main features of the Roadmap, there will be attempts to distort, to minimize the contents by some members of the coalition as they are clearly "elite representatives". Bosses of some businesses will be reluctant to apply the measures because it will have an impact on their costs. Before the Roadmap will be converted in Laws and rules, we will see a lot of underground lobbying. It is the reason why the Roadmap cannnot be a vague understanding, but has to be clearly defined. Already yellow shirts, PAD try to derail this roadmap and I predict that their actions are only starting. It is the reason why the Red Shirts before disbanding must define as accurately as possible this Roadmap and Government must confirm its acceptance. It is not lost time: the social situation is defused at the roots, bouncing back is becoming improbable as the gap is narrowed, Abhisit is gaining in Leadership...If the agreement is too loose and made in the precipitation, the situation will be only partly defused, not cleared at the roots.

Better we loose few days now that getting another crisis in few months.

I will add that Abhisit and the moderate Red Shirts leaders are now on the same boat, facing the terrorist issues from different sides. An agreement is a Must for stopping the terrorist activities, because they have to join their efforts.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[jdinasia]

But not all red shirts are on the same page. Read the Sunday Bangkok Post and you will see that Seh Dang is definately the terrorist element. Not all agree with him, which is good to see. Seh Dang is a loose canyon that flipped and those that are associated with him will have to suffer the consequences. Hopefully, they can subdue him so the peace process can continue before he commits any more acts of terrorism.

Again, it may be a mistake to think od Sae Daeng and the rest of the top tier leaders of the Red Shirts as being at odds. It is possible that we may find out through informants that were actively involved with the reds that Arisaman, Jatuporn, Veera and Weng amongst others have known about Sae Daeng's activities this whole time. If so, then they are ALL guilty of terroism and treason. The charges against them that they have yet to answer seem to indicate that this may be the case.

[jdinasia]

Again I think you are very very wrong Jerry!

The Red shirt leaders have cried about "false reds", or "Arisaman acted on his own" etc etc etc every time there was violence or increased illegal actions (like at the EC and at Parliament) and yet Arisaman shows right back up onstage with them every time, Sae Daeng ends up inside the red controlled areas.

Safety is dealt with? Shouldn't be discussed? There are ARMED insurgents inside the red controlled area and only someone blinded by their red glasses would think that safety isn't an issue! In fact, how can you reply on THIS thread and say that safety isn't an issue?

You say the Red Leaders agree about terrorism ----- yet they are still avoiding arrest with lawful arrest warrants against them.

BTW---- an argument of false authority just doesn't hold any water. Claiming (unproved) experience over 20 years ago in a different culture on a different continent and about different issues does not make someone an expert

[Neurath]

New Rules to be included in the road map ...

No gatherings of more than 5 people wearing the same solid colored shirt.

No person shall own more than 1 shirt of the same solid color.

Any shirt containing 60% more of one color shall be deemed a solid colored shirt.

Violating the colored shirt laws will result in the same punishment as a drug dealer.

Edit:

And any person holding an illegal protest that infringes on the rights of others while displaying the Thai Flag or the colors of the Thai flag will also be dealt with in the same manner as a drug dealer.

Dealt with in the same manner as a drug dealer eh? Doesn't that mean that everyone will treat you like they treat policemen?

[jcbangkok]

ok lets be clear once and for all.

the yellow shirts didnt " conquer" or invade the airport , they went there to " welcome" somchai who was returning from a trip , but there was so many that the director of AOT closed the airport by HIMSELF ... they rallied in the arrival lane OUTSIDE the airport at first and NEVER ASKED THE THE AIRPORT BE CLOSED ... ONCE the airport was closed BY AOT then they just sat there .....

Here, to make it easier, why don't you tell me what isn't true. References included.

Seizing the airport

On the evening of Tuesday 25 November 2008, the PAD executed what they called "Operation Hiroshima."[107] A convoy of hundreds of PAD members dressed in yellow blocked the two ends of the road in front of the terminal building of Suvarnabhumi International Airport and blockaded the main road to the airport. The airport is Bangkok's main airport and an important regional hub. PAD forces quickly overpowered hundreds of policemen armed with riot gear. PAD leaders mounted a mobile stage and proceeded to criticize the government. All Suvarnabhumi flights were soon canceled, leaving thousands of travelers stranded in the airport.[108][109]

The government called on the Royal Thai Army to restore order at the airport.[110] The Army did not follow the orders. In a press conference on 26 November, Army Commander General Anupong Paochinda proposed that the PAD withdraw from the airport and that the government resign. He also proposed that if the PAD did not comply, that they be subject to "social sanctions", whereas if the government did not comply, that the bureaucracy stop implementing government orders. A written copy of the proposal was sent to the government. Neither the PAD or the government complied with the proposal.[111]

At 4:30 AM on the morning of 26 November, three explosions were heard on the fourth floor of Suvarnbumi on the outside of the passenger terminal.[112] Another explosion was reported at 6 AM.[112] Several people were injured. It was not clear who set off the explosions.[113] The PAD did not allow the police or forensics experts to investigate the explosions.[26]

The PAD became the de-facto authority over the airport and the airplanes within it. Airports of Thailand, which planned to use U-Tapao military airbase outside of Bangkok as a replacement for Suvarnabhumi, pleaded with PAD leadership to release nearly a hundred empty aircraft from Suvarnabhumi.[114]

26 - ^ a b Asian Human Rights Committee, THAILAND: Watershed moment for democracy and rule of law, 26 November 2008

107 - ^ Matichon, พธม.เรียกยึดสุวรรณภูมิเป็นปฏิบัติการฮิโรชิม่า, 26 November 2008

108 - ^ The Nation, About 3,000 outbound passengers still stranded at Suvarnabhumi

109 - ^ IPS News, Thailand: Heading For Mobocracy?, 26 November 2008

110 - ^ Bloomberg, Thai Army Called on as Protest Shuts Main Airport, 25 November 2008

111 - The Nation, Anupong's panel calls for House dissolution and end of protests, 26 November 2008

112 - a b The Nation, 4 bomb attacks rock Bangkok

113 - Matichon, ศูนย์นเรนทรสรุปคนเจ็บ "บึ้ม-ปะทะ" เย็นวานถึงตอนนี้ 19 ราย พธม.ชี้ รบ.บึ้ม ดอนเมือง การ์ดตรวจ24ช.ม., 26 November 2008

114 - ^ The Nation, AOT chief to seek permission to fly 88 empty commercial planes from Suvarnabhumi, 30 November 2008

ONCE AGAIN. read the last sentence of my original post and you will understand what i think about the PAD.... then this is on wikipedia so it has to be thr truth .... just like I can go there and write that Thaksin led the yellow shirts to the airport and you would quote it too ... the reds went to the airports to prevent somchai from going back to BKK .... what happened after is that the AOT CHOSE BY ITSELF TO CLOSE THE AIRPORTS ... only then , once they got the key did they install a stage and get in and around the airport ....

nuff said

Yes, "nuff said" if you don't want to retract what was CLEARLY an untruth (and fantasy) you stated as fact.

[jcbangkok]

Do you read Webfacts?

These are elements which confirm that a negotiation is on going....

from Webfact:

"The Red Shirts have signed up to the peace process but are demanding a firm date for the dissolution of parliament before disbanding their base, where they are barricaded behind piles of fuel-soaked tyres and razor wire.

Both sides said the attacks were the work of groups intent on derailing Abhisit's peace roadmap.

The premier said the latest attacks were "carried out by terrorists who don't want the reconciliation plan."

The Reds also said the latest killings were carried out by elements intent on sabotaging the peace proposals.

"This will not distract us or derail the process," Reds leader Nattawut Saikuar said Saturday. However, he indicated that an agreement was not yet within reach.

"The five-point roadmap plan which is proposed by Abhisit we already understand. But on our part, we need a few more days to come up with our own proposals, which will be flexible," he said."

I am not in touch with any insider of any side, maybe Lannarebirth has some in the democrat/coalition side? A negotiation is on going, and usual tactics are applied to reach an agreement, we are on track to see a quick end, but still some turbulences to overpass....

I'm not seeing one bit of indications that negotiations took place or are taking place except for WITHIN the red mob who change their minds like the wind in order to continue this illegal violent seizure of BKK while holding Thailand hostage.

In fact, I have read much from web facts to say there are no negotiations going on that mean anything such as the PM saying this numerous times.

[lannarebirth]

hmmmmm still saying that an illegal rally AND negotiation using threats of violence is acceptable Jerry?

Pardon me if I do not believe your personal stories, since they do not ring true at all.

It rings true for union negotiations which are of a different kind. I worked in unions all my working life. The side with the power sticks it to the other side, but good, there is no middle way. In a rising economy the union wins in a faltering economy management wins.

[lannarebirth]

Chegevara king of disinformation and mixing up things... none of these pictures are from the 2006 coup , most of them and especially the one with the gun are from songkran last year and not against the government but the reds... the one with the police are certainly from the government house under somchai ... but have you heard of any police or army killed by the PAD???????????????

anyway it has nothing to do with the 2006 coup as you pretend

using you tactics of disinformation i can find you pictures of Thaksin with yellow shirts supporters and tell you that he is PAD

I took those photos with a big grain of salt.... Wasn't sure where they were from, but knew not the coup which went off without a hitch.... (seemingly at least).... And I was pretty sure they weren't yellows... Most yellows I know look far less like a Thai chapter of the Aryan Brotherhood.... Thanks for clarifying where they are from...

More lies from the che. Whatever happened to all of the aliases that che was using. I think it was brahmburger noticed it in another thread and all of the cheb aliases went home. Definately a red terrorist supporter.

His use of Che's name to support a billionaire fascist is reprehensible... Che was a truly a great socilaist, not a lackey for a billionaire....

I think neither one of you know much about Che Guevara.

[agord]

Don't be silly, Thaksin isn't the enemy...he cut poverty in half during his term in office...the only PM to do anything for the poor...I don't get all these people blinded by hatred...hatred uses up so much energy...stop hating and open your mind...

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

[jdinasia]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

[agord]

You are NOT Thai.

Why do you dislike your place of birth.

Strange.

The poor of Thailand support the Reds.

You say you are a leftist.

You are confused in backing the current government.

It is a puppet of the ruling families who have done over 17 coups.

You like Red China? The ruling 20 families hate the communists.

You love Thailand and China?

Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Poor poor Tommy... No I am not Thai and never said I was. Presumably neither are you. I am also not Chinese. I happen to be an American of Irish, Cherokee and Shawnee blood and a smattering of other. In fact my family was in America before there was a United States and several of my ancestors fought in hte revolution. So what? They didn't fight for corporate democracy that exists in the so-called "democracies" of the West. I'm in Thailand because I love Thailand. I sympathize with the yellows and most of my friends are yellows and multishirts. I have one friend that is openly a red sympathizer around me. I never said I dislike the place of my birth. I happen to love Thailand more, though, especially as I have become disgusted with the way politics swings every few years from progressive to reactionary. I actually like Obama. But I know in the next elections or in a few years it will swing back to the worn politics of the reactionary right. If we had a Kucinich-Sanders administration I might like to come home. As it is though I much prefer Thailand, and I would miss the laap muu. Where did I ever say I dislike my country of birth? I choose not to live there Tommy... And you too I think, or are you an armchair revolutionary sitting on a couch in a Western country with your laptop on your belly? Again Tommy please read what I say before making statements. Why are you here... As I said I am here because I love this country, I love the King, I love the Prime Minister, and I love the Thai people. A large percentage of (a majority even?) have Chinese ancestry.

You say the poor of Thailand support the reds, not entirely accurate. People - both poor and the privileged - from one region support the redshirts. Poor and privileged from other regions do not, so to say the poor of Thailand support the redshirts is false. Go to the South and say that. Please... The redshirts leadership and Thaksin are using the poor of that region. While they live in comfort the redshirt rank and file sleep on the streets and are threatened with beatings if they try to leave. As the wife of one victim of the APril 10 shootings said, the redshirts put them between the troops and themselves hiding behind the poor. A base use of impoverished people by red leaders and Thaksin. Pay them to come here, but hold their ID cards and hold them hostage here.

I did not say I am a leftist, though I once leaned towards a left wind. In many ways I still do. However, I believe in the concept of dhammic socialism espoused by Buddhadasa, which upholds the monarchy but has no idle faith in democracy. See "Democracy in the Light of Buddhadasa" in Journal of the World Buddhist University v4 n2 for a discussion of democracy.

Abhisit is a puppet? What is your insight into this. You have access to the workings of the inner circles of the Thai government? Or merely access to red propaganda? The ruling families of Thailand hate China? I think you need to look again. As I noted calling China socialist or communist any longer is debatable. Many would argue it merely wears the trappings of socialism, some on the left consider it a "deformed workers state." Personally I love and respect the China of Li Bai as much as I love the China of Sun Yat-Sen, Soong Ching-Ling, and Mao Zedong. But I forget you have deep insight into the working of the Thai ruling family (though from where I would ask?) so you know, yes they hate China. Keep telling yourself that as the West alienates Thailand and Thailand looks to it's northern brother and develops alliances of it's own here in Asia.

So again you fail to read anything it seems and imply:

I hate the land of my birth. False

I am a leftist. Left on some things right on others. I do have a signed copy of A Peoples History of the United States. As well as Custer Died for Your Sins. Maybe more left than right.

I am confused in backing the government. False, I am not confused. I am basing it on what my senses perceive. I would suggest that your writings are confused however.

I love China. I have had a deep respect for China over more than 40 years, have become acquainted with many who were or are expats in China, including Joan Hinton, William Hinton, and Robert Williams.

I love China and Thailand? Yes I do, and the Cincinnati Reds (no connection with Thailand's reds )

So please get your facts in order. Do not try to spout rhetoric. The redshirt leaders you are an apologist for are far better, and they are not very good.

wow! cut down to Tom Thumb now I would guess? Agrred with everything you said up to the Cincinnati Reds (I'm Dodger Blue!)

[jdinasia]

hmmmmm still saying that an illegal rally AND negotiation using threats of violence is acceptable Jerry?

Pardon me if I do not believe your personal stories, since they do not ring true at all.

It rings true for union negotiations which are of a different kind. I worked in unions all my working life. The side with the power sticks it to the other side, but good, there is no middle way. In a rising economy the union wins in a faltering economy management wins.

I don't buy his claims. I have worked for Unions and Management (mostly management) and though some usnion activities have certainly been violent all over the negotiations are not usually with a sovreign state. Apples and Oranges.

[agord]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

[granuaile]

wow! cut down to Tom Thumb now I would guess? Agrred with everything you said up to the Cincinnati Reds (I'm Dodger Blue!)

LOL, what can I say, Cinci born and raised... I even have a soft spot for the Bengals ... sometimes (and I don't even like football)... And I love Charlie Hustle, even if I'm not straight...

[jdinasia]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

You need to re-read what I wrote.

Congrats on getting the quotes right!

[agord]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

You need to re-read what I wrote.

Congrats on getting the quotes right!

No I got what you wrote and wasn't including you in the special bus group. Cheers JD!

[agord]

wow! cut down to Tom Thumb now I would guess? Agrred with everything you said up to the Cincinnati Reds (I'm Dodger Blue!)

LOL, what can I say, Cinci born and raised... I even have a soft spot for the Bengals ... sometimes (and I don't even like football)... And I love Charlie Hustle, even if I'm not straight...

Who wouldn't appreciate Chuck Hustle goofy haircut and all? Cincy chili with the spaghetti not too bad either too bad we are way off topic which was what again?

[cheguevara]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

Glad to see poverty decreased under Abhisit then.

What about the rice farmers, to whom he promised 10,000 Baht per kilo rice under the "insurance" scheme? And now he's only paying them 6,100 to 6,200? What's the purpose of the rice insurance scheme then if you don't keep the promises?

[granuaile]

wow! cut down to Tom Thumb now I would guess? Agrred with everything you said up to the Cincinnati Reds (I'm Dodger Blue!)

LOL, what can I say, Cinci born and raised... I even have a soft spot for the Bengals ... sometimes (and I don't even like football)... And I love Charlie Hustle, even if I'm not straight...

Who wouldn't appreciate Chuck Hustle goofy haircut and all? Cincy chili with the spaghetti not too bad either too bad we are way off topic which was what again?

This last trip to Thailand at the end of summer - to pretty much stay here this time - I had a layover in Cincinnati, grabbed a five way at the airport, but nothing matches the five-ways we had at the Popov's chili place in Norwood... wonderful... Dang it I might find there are some things I do miss back home, goetta and five-ways for sure, Hudepol beer,... lol, but I left Cinci decades ago only to find out that goetta wasn't everywhere... Better get back on topic,... lol....hmmm hard to get back to that unpleasantness after good memories... Redshirts wasn't it?

[difos57]

Chegevara king of disinformation and mixing up things... none of these pictures are from the 2006 coup , most of them and especially the one with the gun are from songkran last year and not against the government but the reds... the one with the police are certainly from the government house under somchai ... but have you heard of any police or army killed by the PAD???????????????

anyway it has nothing to do with the 2006 coup as you pretend

using you tactics of disinformation i can find you pictures of Thaksin with yellow shirts supporters and tell you that he is PAD

I took those photos with a big grain of salt.... Wasn't sure where they were from, but knew not the coup which went off without a hitch.... (seemingly at least).... And I was pretty sure they weren't yellows... Most yellows I know look far less like a Thai chapter of the Aryan Brotherhood.... Thanks for clarifying where they are from...

More lies from the che. Whatever happened to all of the aliases that che was using. I think it was brahmburger noticed it in another thread and all of the cheb aliases went home. Definately a red terrorist supporter.

His use of Che's name to support a billionaire fascist is reprehensible... Che was a truly a great socilaist, not a lackey for a billionaire....

No, the many aliases on TV Forum.

[jcbangkok]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Fact is he DID more for himself, family and friends than for the poor. Why do some of you misguided fools still spout this off as gospel and make him out to be a hero for the poor? Very little change indeed & definetly not cut in half that's a joke.

Glad to see poverty decreased under Abhisit then.

What about the rice farmers, to whom he promised 10,000 Baht per kilo rice under the "insurance" scheme? And now he's only paying them 6,100 to 6,200? What's the purpose of the rice insurance scheme then if you don't keep the promises?

Any link to this promise or are you simply making this up since this is what they demanded?

Would be one rich person who could guarantee commodity prices.

[jcbangkok]

He cut poverty in half? with an imaginary sword or what did he use in your fantasy?

I like how you ask others not to be silly - Thaksin did NO MORE, NO LESS than any other for the poor HE DID do much for HIMSELF during his term is that what you meant?

Poverty line levels DID change whilst Thaksin was in office. Particularly in isaan. Correlation does NOT equal causation. The price of rice spiked for awhile while he was in office and that DID change things. Thaksin did not change things very much.

Please learn how to use quotes

Lets not forget the entire time Thaksin was PM that the asian and global markets were booming

Edited May 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Ulysses G.]

His use of Che's name to support a billionaire fascist is reprehensible... Che was a truly a great socilaist, not a lackey for a billionaire....

Actually he was a cowardly, murdering scumbag, but it doesn't really matter now.

[Jerrytheyoung]

hmmmmm still saying that an illegal rally AND negotiation using threats of violence is acceptable Jerry?

Pardon me if I do not believe your personal stories, since they do not ring true at all.

It rings true for union negotiations which are of a different kind. I worked in unions all my working life. The side with the power sticks it to the other side, but good, there is no middle way. In a rising economy the union wins in a faltering economy management wins.

I don't buy his claims. I have worked for Unions and Management (mostly management) and though some usnion activities have certainly been violent all over the negotiations are not usually with a sovreign state. Apples and Oranges.

Go back to my posts to understand what I was telling and the interpretation of Lannarebirth

Look in the European history, you will find several times 'illegal rallyes' some associated with violence in fact in France all strikes with a Political meaning are unlawful...which means that nearly all the national strikes we have gotten are "illegal".... a lot. Last serious thing which has been managed by French Government is May 68.

But coming back to my posts, what Lannarebirth has not understood, and he was associating with violence, is that the Power (the steam) of a rallye is defusing during a negociation, because everybody has a different appreciation of the results. So the game is for Government /management to reduce the steam and stop making concessions when it is considered as unecessary to defuse more; on contrary, the opposite side has to keep as high as possible the steam, until the end of the negociation, so the end of the pressure must be exerted at the end of the negociation.

Lannarebirth is associating this to violence, because he would like to see the disbanding as soon as the negociation starts. I do not consider the continuation of the rallye as a violence if there is no terrorist act. this is where the misunderstanding stands.

Retirement age, Minimum guaranteed salary, Union Rights... amidst others are negotiated directly with a Government.

Laws regarding an Industrial or a Service branch have also to be dealt with your Minister and even with the PM. (EDF- Electricity de France, Health staff or Education, Air traffic Controllers for example)... In France, it happens relatively often, because of the Government direct involvement in Industry. (consequence of what we call 'economie Mixte)

i have personnally leaded such negotiations regarding a whole profession with my Minister (it was the Communist Fiterman) and the PM Cabinet (Pierre Mauroy) and even we have gotten an audience with the president of republique Cabinet (Francois Mitterrand). The serie of strikes has been defused through a Combination of negotiation at the level of Fiterman and with the Employers.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[haroldc]

I hope I'm not breaking a rule by posting this link. Very interesting article about the situation.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE08Ae02.html

[brahmburgers]

But not all red shirts are on the same page. Read the Sunday Bangkok Post and you will see that Seh Dang is definately the terrorist element. Not all agree with him, which is good to see. Seh Dang is a loose canyon that flipped and those that are associated with him will have to suffer the consequences. Hopefully, they can subdue him so the peace process can continue before he commits any more acts of terrorism.

The more I observe the stalling tactics used by the Reds, the more it looks like it's about Seh Daeng and Kwanchai Praipana - two of the hottest headed loose cannons within the group of Red hot heads. It's all but assured they're pleading for amnesty to be included (at least among their peers). Otherwise they get tossed to mercy of the courts, and those two, in particular, won't fare well in a courtroom where they can't swagger, shout, and bully others around - as they've been doing with their Red underlings for weeks.

Lets not forget the entire time Thaksin was PM that the asian and global markets were booming

.....and T came in right after PM Chuan had quietly overseen responsible economic policies, trying to clean up the messes of 1997 financial meltdown. T rode that wave, but continued to furiously try and line his pockets using every power-play advantage he could think up - from avoiding taxes, to hiding money overseas, to hiding money in secret servants' accounts, to selling stocks to his family for pennies - thinking he was being so clever, yet actually endangering his children. T allegedly also used lottery proceeds (which he oversaw) to funnel to pu yai ban who got him a lot of votes, but now I'm straying from the subject. Whewww, once a person gets on to listing the trespasses of T and his family, the list goes on an on. Someday someone will make a film of his adult life, and it will be categorized as 'fictional comedy' because future generations won't believe the myriad crazy schemes the man tried - while duping Thailand and its people.