Armoured Vehicles, Army Live Bullets Will Be Used To Surround Red-Shirts From 6pm

[lannarebirth]

It's like an old John Candy movie. Hey - maybe that's what it is- they're just filming it all as part of a new Teng or Kohtee comedy?

Why also Abhisit needed to cancell his proposal for election on 14 November ? Does he look serious ?

The early election proposal was the quid pro quo for the rally dissolution. The Red Shirts reneged on the rally dissolution and have instead decided to "fight to the death". Over what is anyone's guess. Mine being an overthrow of the government and installation of a despotic regime, Red Sirt style.

Veera and Nattuwong accepted the PM proposal as far as I know.

Lots of division in the red camp .

So by cancelling his proposal the PM plaid in the hand of the red hardliners (the thugs)

Which exposed the division and disingenuousness of the opposition. Division amongst them is good. hopefully the less hard liners will drag some grandmothers out with them.

From Seh daeng's interview yesteday:

Q : What is your view on infighting among the red-shirt leadership?

A : The "dove" leaders took money from the government and the "hawk" leaders want to expose them, but they don't dare to. But the "hawk" leaders have me, so I expose the "dove leaders".

Q : Who are the dove leaders?

K : Nattawut Saikua, Jatuporn Promphan, Dr weng Tojirakarn, and Wisa Khanthap.

Q : Who are the hawk leaders?

K : Arisman Pongruangrong, Suporn Atthawong, Khwanchai Praipana and Payap Panket.

Q : Your are not included?

K : I don't get involved with the protest.

Q : You are not a hardcore?

K : No. I work separately from the leaders. I don't speak on the stage. I work on the security for the protest. The leaders want me out, but I'm not leaving. I will take care of the protesters, because I know they will be killed if I leave.

Q : The infighting will weaken the protest?

K : No. The doves are bad leaders. The red shirts have come to fight and die. How can they make a deal [with the government] for themselves? The PM's road map, the surrender of Suthep Thaugsuban at the DSI, and at the CSD. I exposed them all. The red shirts have come here for House dissolution, not for the road map.

Q : What do you have to explain to the people about the red shirts' demand?

K : We come here for House dissolution and now we are fooled by the first-tier leaders. Now we are waiting for the second-tier leaders, who have now given a pledge to carry on the protest and now one backs out. Arisman is the leader.

It is not certain if Jatuporn will join the bandwagon. He jumped in and just jumped out.

Q : How many men are still with you if the protest is over, or if the doves give up?

K : Everyone will stay, because the essentials are all here - water, food, tents, generators and mobile toilets.

Q : If Suthep surrenders to CSD, the protest is over?

A : As agreed. No one will give up. They are ready for a revolution. The hawks are ready to do it since Wednesday night. Arisman announced openly to bring back the 1997 Constitution and Thaksin.

[whybother]

Veera and Nattuwong accepted the PM proposal as far as I know.

Lots of division in the red camp .

So by cancelling his proposal the PM plaid in the hand of the red hardliners (the thugs)

Bottom line: The reds (as a group) rejected the offer, so the offer was rescinded.

The offer can't stay on the table just because a couple of the leaders agreed with it. One of the conditions of the offer was for the protests to finish. Given they are still continuing, it's clear that the offer wasn't accepted.

Agree but :

That is dangerous as it just gives fuel to the extremists in the red camp .

Even Veera can not do anything and i dont see Abhisit in such an

overwhelming position of force .

If the moderates don't agree, and they can't convince the extremists to accept the deal, then the moderates should leave. But the moderates have stayed.

[pornsasi]

Veera and Nattuwong accepted the PM proposal as far as I know.

Lots of division in the red camp .

So by cancelling his proposal the PM plaid in the hand of the red hardliners (the thugs)

Bottom line: The reds (as a group) rejected the offer, so the offer was rescinded.

The offer can't stay on the table just because a couple of the leaders agreed with it. One of the conditions of the offer was for the protests to finish. Given they are still continuing, it's clear that the offer wasn't accepted.

Latest reports show the unelected red leaders were all in favor of ending the illegal violent protest except for two of them. This very undemocratic group doesn't even not follow majority rule within the leadership but never once has asked their soon to be slaughtered lambs what they want nor do they ever inform them of facts ... they simply tell them what they have to and what further's red leaders goal which is paid for and dictated by Thaksin.

Edit: In fact S.D. even said before being shot that there were only two leaders wanting to fight on ... actually have their lambs fight on while they hide out.

I fully agree with you . not sure if Thaksin has much control any longer on the 2 extremist dickheads .

Well one is dead or almost , remains the other one .

Tell me why could the governement not arrest those two thugs long ago ?

You know what : i suspect the governement left them in place to damage the red shirts

from within .

And that may backfire on them and the peaceful majority of thais

Edited May 14, 2010 by pornsasi

[Steely Dan]

TAN Network: Reports indicate that Jatuporn and Arisman are the only remaining leaders who won't surrender

Only 2 holdouts and they are still there??? What kind of democracy are they running?

Oh, wait ... the kind where unelected leaders lead lambs to a slaughter while they work out deals to save their own behinds. The kind where they never ask their lambs for their opinions and only tell them what to do ... such as fight soldiers with your bare hands as we hide out from them.

The other leaders got paid to leave.

And what would YOU need to be paid in order to vote democrat? Your post encapsulates exactly why Thailand is in such a mess. Abhisit offers a compromise in good faith and because some moderate reds are tempted to find one too the automatic assumption is they have been paid to do so. This is the mindset which begets despot followed by despot, democracy, I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

[BackinBKK]

Reds retaliate by torching a bus......a police bus !

Now that's really amazing.....

So many security forces all around, and these guys do whatever they want (trap soldiers, turn cars over, torch bus, take army vehicles over, etc.....)

for 10 weeks already and some people still think Abhisit is in control. so many great minds on here backing CRES etc.

looks more like a fascist gov every day with media off, AIS and DTAC off (they going to be get a big pay back for that) police on bike look like Iranian Bajis.

same time PAD scream for more blood and less elections.

Think.. Hey Nero, if you in Bangkok try and find a violin shop quick

Abhisit and ANupong have tried to avoid bloodshed.

That doesn't help the reds, so they have pushed and provoked the army at every point to get the army to respond.

As soon as the army respond, the reds come out screaming how blood thirsty the army and Abhisit is.

EXACTLY

Edited May 14, 2010 by BackinBKK

[dobadoy]

There is just loud cheering and horn honking on the stage in Rajaprasong. Any idea what just happened?

Thaksin appeared from up Jatuporn's sleeve?

[chadintheusa]

How long should this lawless mob be allowed to terrorize Bangkok, the army and police need to take decisive action to end it now. Use all tools at their disposal.

[pornsasi]

TAN Network: Reports indicate that Jatuporn and Arisman are the only remaining leaders who won't surrender

Only 2 holdouts and they are still there??? What kind of democracy are they running?

Oh, wait ... the kind where unelected leaders lead lambs to a slaughter while they work out deals to save their own behinds. The kind where they never ask their lambs for their opinions and only tell them what to do ... such as fight soldiers with your bare hands as we hide out from them.

The other leaders got paid to leave.

And what would YOU need to be paid in order to vote democrat? Your post encapsulates exactly why Thailand is in such a mess. Abhisit offers a compromise in good faith and because some moderate reds are tempted to find one too the automatic assumption is they have been paid to do so. This is the mindset which begets despot followed by despot, democracy, I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

I really dont think they got paid . Veera has been the negociating moderate type even during the first two meetings with the PM

back in March . The 2 crazy extremists in the red camp are destroying their country , do they realise that ?

[Chunky1]

TAN Network: Reports indicate that Jatuporn and Arisman are the only remaining leaders who won't surrender

Only 2 holdouts and they are still there??? What kind of democracy are they running?

Oh, wait ... the kind where unelected leaders lead lambs to a slaughter while they work out deals to save their own behinds. The kind where they never ask their lambs for their opinions and only tell them what to do ... such as fight soldiers with your bare hands as we hide out from them.

The other leaders got paid to leave.

And what would YOU need to be paid in order to vote democrat? Your post encapsulates exactly why Thailand is in such a mess. Abhisit offers a compromise in good faith and because some moderate reds are tempted to find one too the automatic assumption is they have been paid to do so. This is the mindset which begets despot followed by despot, democracy, I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

LOL

Q : What is your view on infighting among the red-shirt leadership?

A : The "dove" leaders took money from the government and the "hawk" leaders want to expose them, but they don't dare to. But the "hawk" leaders have me, so I expose the "dove leaders".

Q : Who are the dove leaders?

K : Nattawut Saikua, Jatuporn Promphan, Dr weng Tojirakarn, and Wisa Khanthap.

Q : Who are the hawk leaders?

K : Arisman Pongruangrong, Suporn Atthawong, Khwanchai Praipana and Payap Panket.

Q : Your are not included?

K : I don't get involved with the protest.

Q : You are not a hardcore?

K : No. I work separately from the leaders. I don't speak on the stage. I work on the security for the protest. The leaders want me out, but I'm not leaving. I will take care of the protesters, because I know they will be killed if I leave.

Q : The infighting will weaken the protest?

K : No. The doves are bad leaders. The red shirts have come to fight and die. How can they make a deal [with the government] for themselves? The PM's road map, the surrender of Suthep Thaugsuban at the DSI, and at the CSD. I exposed them all. The red shirts have come here for House dissolution, not for the road map.

Then he got shot. Literally, minutes later.

[dobadoy]

THE NATION: INN: Troops have asked residents in/around Lumpini to leave the area.

Doesn't sound like a sensible time to step outside to me

[minburi2]

How long should this lawless mob be allowed to terrorize Bangkok, the army and police need to take decisive action to end it now. Use all tools at their disposal.

I call on all of you to go on the streets now and batter the protesters with our keyboards

[moo9]

looks more like a fascist gov every day with media off, AIS and DTAC off (they going to be get a big pay back for that)

Why big pay, are going to sue them 'cause you couldn't call your Mia Noi?

I wonder what make you think, that this government is a fascist one. Imho they are to gentle.

[viking75]

Reds retaliate by torching a bus......a police bus !

Now that's really amazing.....

So many security forces all around, and these guys do whatever they want (trap soldiers, turn cars over, torch bus, take army vehicles over, etc.....)

for 10 weeks already and some people still think Abhisit is in control. so many great minds on here backing CRES etc.

looks more like a fascist gov every day with media off, AIS and DTAC off (they going to be get a big pay back for that) police on bike look like Iranian Bajis.

same time PAD scream for more blood and less elections.

Think.. Hey Nero, if you in Bangkok try and find a violin shop quick

Abhisit and ANupong have tried to avoid bloodshed.

That doesn't help the reds, so they have pushed and provoked the army at every point to get the army to respond.

As soon as the army respond, the reds come out screaming how blood thirsty the army and Abhisit is.

EXACTLY

Right.

Try to avoid bloodshed by Army put Abhisit in power.

try to avoid bloodhed by storm protesters by illegal (under int conv. rules) on April 10th.

avoid bloodshed by give sodiers live arms and anti aircraft guns on same day as well.

avoid more bloodshed by let pro gov protestors throw bricks bottle and bombs from army lines at silom.

avoid more blooshed by shoot somebody in head in front of world media.

Only thing Abhisit and Anupong want to avoid is ELECTIONS

Promise you my friend, nobody agrees with you outside this webforum and maybe your missus.

[moo9]

There is just loud cheering and horn honking on the stage in Rajaprasong. Any idea what just happened?

Lottery today? Or free Som Tam?

[chantorn]

Well, on the serious side he pulled back on his offer because the red shirts didn't give him an answer. The army is making him, the whole government and Thailand look ridiculous on the world stage. On the other hand, they are making the Italian WWII forces look good!

Yes but since when a governement in a democracy needs the army to remain in power .

Granted Thailand is not yet a democracy , though some try very hard , and i would say

Abhisit one of them

So you want the army and police to step down, so the thugs can rule the country?

The army and police keep every democratic country from falling into lawlessness.

It's just in most democratic countries, you don't have armed militias roaming the streets.

The same is said before 6-Oct 1976.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_October_1976_Massacre

[h90]

There is just loud cheering and horn honking on the stage in Rajaprasong. Any idea what just happened?

Thaksin appeared from up Jatuporn's sleeve?

Hand in Hand with Sae Daeng and Elvis?

[Jerrytheyoung]

How long should this lawless mob be allowed to terrorize Bangkok, the army and police need to take decisive action to end it now. Use all tools at their disposal.

better to remain in the soap opera than to see armored vehicles converted in fryer pans.

[daboyz1]

Reds' guards given beverage laced with sedative Thursday night

Reds's security staffs guarding Langsuan area were given beverage possibly laced with sedative on Thursday night, an informed source Friday.

After drinking for a while, some guards fell asleep while some others appeared to be unconscious.

They were then taken to a hospital nearby.

The incident was believed to be the army's ploy to weaken the red shirts protesters.

-- The Nation 2010-05-14

LMAO

Yeah I went through this with the usual knuckleheads on another thread. Seems they bought Lao Khao from th wrong street vendor.

[moo9]

Right.

Try to avoid bloodshed by Army put Abhisit in power.

try to avoid bloodhed by storm protesters by illegal (under int conv. rules) on April 10th.

avoid bloodshed by give sodiers live arms and anti aircraft guns on same day as well.

avoid more bloodshed by let pro gov protestors throw bricks bottle and bombs from army lines at silom.

avoid more blooshed by shoot somebody in head in front of world media.

Only thing Abhisit and Anupong want to avoid is ELECTIONS

Promise you my friend, nobody agrees with you outside this webforum and maybe your missus.

Sorry but you need glasses and a brain wash.

And believe me, at least in the area I stay, most people would like to kick out the Reds sooner than later.

[viking75]

looks more like a fascist gov every day with media off, AIS and DTAC off (they going to be get a big pay back for that)

Why big pay, are going to sue them 'cause you couldn't call your Mia Noi?

I wonder what make you think, that this government is a fascist one. Imho they are to gentle.

that because you live in a small world. many already not buy AIS card today, just where I live, and we are very in the south. Thais have longer memories than falang think!!!

nice that Sutheps power base in south is only famous for full moon party and hitmen. But nice for you to have friends like this.

My Mia Noi is ok, she said she will come see me when you are out drinking with your buddies. Let me know when the coast is clear

[animatic]

Malaysia is much more democratic now then it was under Mahatir .

Recent yes but seems working .

Yes, same for Indonesia post-Suharto. You don't put an asterisk next to democracy just because it's not textbook. I'm American and we often cite our history of democracy. We don't refer to the eradication of the Indian nations or a century of slave-holding or another century of Jim Crow-style oppression as a time that proved that we couldn't handle democracy culturally or racially or whatever, we just view it as a time when we were fundamentally wrong about how to administer our democracy (really, really wrong in one of the worst ways possible) and during which we were evolving. We're still evolving and our democracy is still imperfect. Everyone's is. You don't slap bookends on any given moment and announce that democracy can't work for that society because it's not textbook perfect at this moment. It's social and political and economic change, it takes time.

Good post, yank.

[dobadoy]

This picture is in need of a serious explanation, taken at 12.17 today. Whose side are those soldiers on? What are they doing mingling with the reds????

[pornsasi]

Which exposed the division and disingenuousness of the opposition. Division amongst them is good. hopefully the less hard liners will drag some grandmothers out with them.

From Seh daeng's interview yesteday:

THe governement is responsible for not arresting the hard liners ... full stop .

The consequences are their fault .

Alright Arisman may be under Thaksin control ,or not , i dont have enough

non biased infos

[moo9]

My Mia Noi is ok, she said she will come see me when you are out drinking with your buddies. Let me know when the coast is clear

Nope she jokes as she is not colorblind

[Pi Sek]

Right.

Try to avoid bloodshed by Army put Abhisit in power.

try to avoid bloodhed by storm protesters by illegal (under int conv. rules) on April 10th.

avoid bloodshed by give sodiers live arms and anti aircraft guns on same day as well.

avoid more bloodshed by let pro gov protestors throw bricks bottle and bombs from army lines at silom.

avoid more blooshed by shoot somebody in head in front of world media.

Only thing Abhisit and Anupong want to avoid is ELECTIONS

Promise you my friend, nobody agrees with you outside this webforum and maybe your missus.

You're from Songkhla and you hold an opinion like that??? Unbelieveable - I can only think of one person from Songkhla who says like that (and I'm pretty sure he believes none of what he says) - Veera Musikapong. More likely nobody agrees with you my friend.

And anyway, what have elections got to do with it? It's about "justice for our 20 fallen brothers" or something now.

[yoshiwara]

Right.

Try to avoid bloodshed by Army put Abhisit in power.

try to avoid bloodhed by storm protesters by illegal (under int conv. rules) on April 10th.

avoid bloodshed by give sodiers live arms and anti aircraft guns on same day as well.

avoid more bloodshed by let pro gov protestors throw bricks bottle and bombs from army lines at silom.

avoid more blooshed by shoot somebody in head in front of world media.

Only thing Abhisit and Anupong want to avoid is ELECTIONS

Promise you my friend, nobody agrees with you outside this webforum and maybe your missus.

Reading the above contribution you wouldn't believe that the reds are currently rioting exactly the same way as they did at Songkran 2009.

The only difference so far is that Thaksin later said that they were fake reds.

The above contributor's promises are so much confetti.

He is not interested in the scheduled state elections.

He is interested in supporting Thaksin's target.

A last ditch attempt.

With petrol bombs.

As promised by Arisman.

[dobadoy]

I call on all of you to go on the streets now and batter the protesters with our keyboards

[animatic]

Soldiers are trapped by reds at Sanum Luang Night Bazaar, other soldiers called to assist, tear gas deployed

Now it really turns out that Thai army in totally inefficient!

How can they be "trapped"?

Also, hearing the reds leaders talking about retaliation makes me feel that Thai army might not last long....

A couple of things.

It's not like the whole army got 'trapped', a few soldiers got flanked.

The red shirts are no more trained, less recently if at all, and less organized than the army.

Army training and discipline is current, such as it is.

The reds command structure is tenuous at best and chaos at worst.

But they have large numbers stoked to fever pitch.

This is a wide open urban setting and loose knit groups can move around easily at night.

If one platoon or group of army got flanked, under these urban warfare conditions it's not too surprising.

No doubt the army his caching their commanders less visibly after April 10th,

and not doubt the army assumes weapons of war will now be used,

and that vitually kamakazi style, semi-suicidal people may be coming at them.

I am convinced the army has a MUCH different mindset after April 10.

Edited May 14, 2010 by animatic

[jcbangkok]

Then he got shot. Literally, minutes later.

And moments later, Thailand felt a little more safe and for the first time in a long while have hope.

[BackinBKK]

Right.

Try to avoid bloodshed by Army put Abhisit in power.

try to avoid bloodhed by storm protesters by illegal (under int conv. rules) on April 10th.

avoid bloodshed by give sodiers live arms and anti aircraft guns on same day as well.

avoid more bloodshed by let pro gov protestors throw bricks bottle and bombs from army lines at silom.

avoid more blooshed by shoot somebody in head in front of world media.

Only thing Abhisit and Anupong want to avoid is ELECTIONS

Promise you my friend, nobody agrees with you outside this webforum and maybe your missus.

You can't be serious....

So a relatively small group of people with dubious ties (whether by being paid or "convinced" to join and stay (possibly forced) who turn out to carry out terrorits acts, or even at the very least hold the capital city, its people, and economy hostage by illegal means should automatically be granted snap elections? What precedent would that set and would you want to live under that type of rule for any period of time? If so, that's your chooice, but I think the people of Bangkok (most likely the rest of Thailand) want this situation over as soon as possible with the least amount of injuries and bloodshed as possible. They have been warned multiple times to leave and return to normalcy, those who have stayed may have to pay the piper.