Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[rixalex]

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

Why don't you first explain where you are getting your "facts" from?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Please don't believe this rubbish - I would say nearly half the country (we don't know until elections for sure) are probably red - disgusted that they have a government with no mandate and want one simple thing - a chance to VOTE.

You would base this on your 2 years in Thailand? The 2007 elections don't support those nubers even before Newin and other left the Thaksin coalition. That was before the reds started protesting for the return of Thaksin and detsroying the Thai economy. That was before 3 violent protests by the reds etc .... Even Isaan isn't firmly behind the reds any more though it may vote that way in the future.

we don't know... let's find out? support elections - we had the date - it should not be changed because of some protests - it's absurd and will not be accepted by the country - you will see - we are heading for civil war because of poor leadership - Abhisit should have stuck to the high ground instead of throwing his dummy out of the pram.

[LivinLOS]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

That's false information. Try again when you have the FACTS. Next ...

Thaksin 1..

Thaksin 2..

Coup.

Somchai..

PAD Airport closure

Current..

The current one was a far greater Red support.. Thats after they barred the TRT and stopped many of its candidates running.. Only the Newin Barnham backroom deals made it a non Red government..

What history have you been watching ??

[BKjohn]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

are

democracy is what the fight is all about. freedom of the people to vote and elect a government of their choice,this and not the choice of the Armed Forces in Thailand.in this civil war the only losers are the Thais themselves. the Reds are this fighting for their lives because of the repression they are suffering under the rich and powerful this has been going on for hundreds of years and now they will not give up. The Prime Minister will have to resign and face the charges of the people. This is the work of the New World order and the Bushes and the Blair's Rothschild's and Rockefeller's of this world are destroying democracy. Is it is going to end I think not -- I wish it would . The UK now has a new government Thailand needs one to. don't blame the people who want change. twice the government that was elected have been deposed. back the reds

Those are the same people who sold their votes to Thaksin - they are nothing but IQ challenged opportunists who blindly follow the chap who paid them some money - your democracy loving <deleted> does not pull - facts talk for themselves - if you take money to vote for a person, you do not deserve democracy

[bkkjohnny69]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

Democracy protesters, are you from Somalia?

[Mekhong]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

Abhisit's thugs are called the army and the police. They are allowed to use live ammunition against armed terrorists. Or do you think whistles and batons might bring this situation to an end more effectively? And yes, you can just see Abhisit ordering the army to hang protesters from trees can't you? He comes across as cruel and psychotic doesn't he?

[ChiangMaiFun]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Natthawut is free to dissolve his protest and spare Thailand the tragedy, guess those lives aren't worth him saving. Why would criminals be issuing conditions for the police and army? The tragedy is what the reds want, otherwise they would have taken the elections instead.

I'm confused, are you implying that the police and army aren't criminals? Really?

You're not confused.

You are just having trouble putting together your Thaksin apologist agenda on this forum.

Thaskin lalala any other tune to support your argument that elections should not be held to give people a chance to VOTE

[Jingthing]

Last election, reds got the most votes but NOT EVEN CLOSE to a majority. Next ... Red apologists, please use facts if you have them rather than lies.

[jcbangkok]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we don't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

edit: spl.

So far, he is sticking to the road map EXACTLY.

Said from the get go that elections on the 14th were dependent on certain things.

Fact is getting rid of this violent illegal mob is part of the road map but because he is being forced to deal with them as ignorant animals instead of reasonable people, the election date has to be pushed back. I personally hope it is pushed all the way back to the legal scheduled elections at the end of 2011. Time these idiots thought more about who they let lead them and how to go about change.

TWICE NOW SINCE THE START OF THIS MESS THE REDS HAVE BEEN OFFERED ELECTIONS AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND BOTH TIMES THEY HAD MORE UNREASONABLE DEMANDS.

[BKjohn]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

Abhisit's thugs are called the army and the police. They are allowed to use live ammunition against armed terrorists. Or do you think whistles and batons might bring this situation to an end more effectively? And yes, you can just see Abhisit ordering the army to hang protesters from trees can't you? He comes across as cruel and psychotic doesn't he?

Those are the same people who sold their votes to Thaksin - they are nothing but IQ challenged paid opportunists intermingling with highly paid terrorists who blindly follow the chap who paid them some money - your democracy loving <deleted> does not pull - facts talk for themselves - if you take money to vote for a person, you do not deserve democracy

[noel2499rk]

"The soldiers just opened up on everyone. Old people, women, ambulance crews."

This a tweet from Time journalist Andrew Marshall on the scene now.

http://twitter.com/Journotopia

[LivinLOS]

Last election, reds got the most votes but NOT EVEN CLOSE to a majority. Next ... Red apologists, please use facts if you have them rather than lies.

OK so for the last 4 elections reds have got the most votes..

Happy now ??

[TAWP]

Am utterly appalled at the reds. They had such sympathy a month and a half ago, now they are just a bunch of criminals working for their master Thaksin to the detriment of the entire nation. Disgusting.

OK. However, I can't understand any civilized person having any sympathy for them at all after Pattaya Asean and Black Songkran.

The only ones that have sympathy for them are the reds themselves - like their fan club here - time for negotiation is over and I hope the government realizes that the only way to win this is to go full out and destroy them once and for all

Maybe you should study the situation a bit more. The majority of the Thai population supports the "red shirts". Let me say it again...the majority. That means over 50% of the population. Maybe you have not been out of the large tourist cities and into the rural areas where the majority of the Thai population lives.

Please post sources that prove the support to be 50% or above.

[hammered]

Please don't believe this rubbish - I would say nearly half the country (we don't know until elections for sure) are probably red - disgusted that they have a government with no mandate and want one simple thing - a chance to VOTE.

You would base this on your 2 years in Thailand? The 2007 elections don't support those nubers even before Newin and other left the Thaksin coalition. That was before the reds started protesting for the return of Thaksin and detsroying the Thai economy. That was before 3 violent protests by the reds etc .... Even Isaan isn't firmly behind the reds any more though it may vote that way in the future.

we don't know... let's find out? support elections - we had the date - it should not be changed because of some protests - it's absurd and will not be accepted by the country - you will see - we are heading for civil war because of poor leadership - Abhisit should have stuck to the high ground instead of throwing his dummy out of the pram.

We should support elections within a set period agreed by all paticipnats (not just red and government) of the end of this "event". The government must restore order and law before any election that could be seen as even vaguely democratic could be held. And they cant do it by accepting demnands of what is now a violent armed gang or that would just set a precednet. Enough precedents have already been set but this would be one too far. Like some of the red leaders have seen this is time for them to go home. Sadly Thaksin wont allow this in all likelihood and that will only place everything further back so it is likely it will all end in tears. When it does though will be time to set a roadmap within a democratic framework and not while an armed gang hold the majority to ransom

[wlcart]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

As i stated above i have and still do get out and see Thailand, as for tourist area's - i don't live in one. Do you understand anything about economics? Because if your capital city and economic centre crashes so does the country, who do you think will suffer most if that happens??? The elite and the army, NO it will be the poor people of rural thailand who suffer first and suffer the most. Tourism brings a huge amount of money into the Thai economy, NOTICE i use the word ECONOMY, because without an economy the country will fail not just Bangkok. Check the official government figures, they are online, even from Thaksins time. If the tourists go, the Farang that live here wont be far behind, is that what you want???? No one but thai's in thailand? "we all hate tourists and farang"???? Sounds very much like the point of view an Austrian bloke had in 1939!!. If you'd actually read my post you'd know a lot of my friends are very poor and NOT from tourist Thailand, they dont support the reds at all, are they all wrong??? Will you kick them out of thailand with the farang and tourists if you get your way?????

Rant over...

You are being very alarmist. I understand economics quite well, although I wouldnt class myself as an economist .

You are taking massive leaps from a STRONG thai economy to one that FAILS instantly as 'tourism' levels plumet. As I said in a previous post theres a whole lot more to the thai economy than tourism.

Can you please show me where you get your data that indicates the Thai economy going from its very strong position it has had throughout the WFC to the doom and gloom you are reporting now?

Also, please note, I won't be kicking anyone out of Thailand or jumping up and down yelling out stuff about the sky is falling.

Isn't this whole conversation futile? who cares if it is from farangs, or tourist, or the tooth fairy. I am pretty sure a civil war is bad for the economy.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

Democracy protesters, are you from Somalia?

yes democracy - that small thing that allows you to vote for government? the thing that has not happened with this government? and you wonder why people are upset and angry? not sure where you come from but let your government apparatus ban political parties and MP's at the drop of a hat - see how you feel.

[dobadoy]

Please don't believe this rubbish - I would say nearly half the country (we don't know until elections for sure) are probably red - disgusted that they have a government with no mandate and want one simple thing - a chance to VOTE.

You would base this on your 2 years in Thailand? The 2007 elections don't support those nubers even before Newin and other left the Thaksin coalition. That was before the reds started protesting for the return of Thaksin and detsroying the Thai economy. That was before 3 violent protests by the reds etc .... Even Isaan isn't firmly behind the reds any more though it may vote that way in the future.

we don't know... let's find out? support elections - we had the date - it should not be changed because of some protests - it's absurd and will not be accepted by the country - you will see - we are heading for civil war because of poor leadership - Abhisit should have stuck to the high ground instead of throwing his dummy out of the pram.

I agree that Abhisit should stick to the Nov 14 promise, but a precondition has to be that the protests end, and everyone starts preparing for a peaceful, civilised election campaign. There can be no election with the reds calling all the shots and demanding to bring the country to a halt every time they come up with some whim as a precondition (suthep hand yourself in, here, not there, we get bail, now, not later, etc etc).

IMO, Abhisit was right to withdraw the election date until the Reds come back to the discussion table, agree to the concessions they have won, and turn over those they know that have comitted acts of violence. This silly talk about the gov't having to turn themselves in to the police has to end - the gov't are responsible for security, not the red shirts, and if they should face charges over anything relating to that it should be for FAILING to implement the law expeditiously.

[Jingthing]

Last election, reds got the most votes but NOT EVEN CLOSE to a majority. Next ... Red apologists, please use facts if you have them rather than lies.

OK so for the last 4 elections reds have got the most votes..

Happy now ??

Most is a completely different thing than the MAJORITY in a parliamentary government. Abhisit is the legal PM. He doesn't need to give the violent red thugs anything.

[rixalex]

we don't know... let's find out? support elections - we had the date - it should not be changed because of some protests

But it was and you supported that.

[whybother]

Last election, reds got the most votes but NOT EVEN CLOSE to a majority. Next ... Red apologists, please use facts if you have them rather than lies.

OK so for the last 4 elections reds have got the most votes..

Happy now ??

"The most" does not make the majority that you need to form government.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we don't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

edit: spl.

So far, he is sticking to the road map EXACTLY.

Said from the get go that elections on the 14th were dependent on certain things.

Fact is getting rid of this violent illegal mob is part of the road map but because he is being forced to deal with them as ignorant animals instead of reasonable people, the election date has to be pushed back. I personally hope it is pushed all the way back to the legal scheduled elections at the end of 2011. Time these idiots thought more about who they let lead them and how to go about change.

TWICE NOW SINCE THE START OF THIS MESS THE REDS HAVE BEEN OFFERED ELECTIONS AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND BOTH TIMES THEY HAD MORE UNREASONABLE DEMANDS.

I agree reds have lost an opportunity and have made some silly mistakes - BUT Abhisit would have risen in stature had he stuck to the date announced and risen above the furore - but he has set himself LOW standards and then FAILED to achieve them

[BKjohn]

Whatever ... reds are getting their ass whupped

[rixalex]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

That's false information. Try again when you have the FACTS. Next ...

Thaksin 1..

Thaksin 2..

Coup.

Somchai..

PAD Airport closure

Current..

The current one was a far greater Red support.. Thats after they barred the TRT and stopped many of its candidates running.. Only the Newin Barnham backroom deals made it a non Red government..

What history have you been watching ??

Thaksin's party won a majority once. What history have you been watching? Truth Today?

[Jingthing]

we don't know... let's find out? support elections - we had the date - it should not be changed because of some protests

But it was and you supported that.

Calling what the red insurgents are doing "protests" is like calling a football sized malignant tumor a pimple.

[whybother]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

Democracy protesters, are you from Somalia?

yes democracy - that small thing that allows you to vote for government? the thing that has not happened with this government? and you wonder why people are upset and angry? not sure where you come from but let your government apparatus ban political parties and MP's at the drop of a hat - see how you feel.

CMF ... what part don't you understand about voting and parliament in Thailand?

You know ... people vote for MPs ... MPs vote for PM. The people voted. Abhisit is PM.

[LivinLOS]

Last election, reds got the most votes but NOT EVEN CLOSE to a majority. Next ... Red apologists, please use facts if you have them rather than lies.

OK so for the last 4 elections reds have got the most votes..

Happy now ??

Most is a completely different thing than the MAJORITY in a parliamentary government. Abhisit is the legal PM. He doesn't need to give the violent red thugs anything.

How long did it take the Somchai government to be brought down for doing a cooking show ?? Days..

And now the democrats have been caught taking 258m in illegal donations and the EC commission says they should be disbanded and barred ?? Why isnt it applied with the same zeal ??

Because its one rule for one set of people and entirely another for the other set. Double standards galore.

[jcbangkok]

Elections have never solved anything in Thailand. The problem now is not elections but violent lawless mob holding the country hostage.

[hammered]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we don't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

edit: spl.

So far, he is sticking to the road map EXACTLY.

Said from the get go that elections on the 14th were dependent on certain things.

Fact is getting rid of this violent illegal mob is part of the road map but because he is being forced to deal with them as ignorant animals instead of reasonable people, the election date has to be pushed back. I personally hope it is pushed all the way back to the legal scheduled elections at the end of 2011. Time these idiots thought more about who they let lead them and how to go about change.

TWICE NOW SINCE THE START OF THIS MESS THE REDS HAVE BEEN OFFERED ELECTIONS AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND BOTH TIMES THEY HAD MORE UNREASONABLE DEMANDS.

I agree reds have lost an opportunity and have made some silly mistakes - BUT Abhisit would have risen in stature had he stuck to the date announced and risen above the furore - but he has set himself LOW standards and then FAILED to achieve them

Silly mistakes. You want to see what red siams local spokesman said about them!

[bkkjohnny69]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

Democracy protesters, are you from Somalia?

yes democracy - that small thing that allows you to vote for government? the thing that has not happened with this government? and you wonder why people are upset and angry? not sure where you come from but let your government apparatus ban political parties and MP's at the drop of a hat - see how you feel.

Oh Ok, you know something? If I walked up to the Whitehouse with a Molotov cocktail flaming in my hand because I wanted to change the government, I would honestly expect to be shot...

[noel2499rk]

"The soldiers just opened up on everyone. Old people, women, ambulance crews."

This a tweet from Time journalist Andrew Marshall on the scene now.

http://twitter.com/Journotopia

Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

I hope you enjoy your omelet